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Thread: Tell me what you think of this class.

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    Tell me what you think of this class.

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    Rifleman


    Rifleman are masters of the weapons called "firearms" which are relatively new to the realms. Firearms are powerful devices and come in many shapes and sizes, and serve just about as many purposes. Rifles for medium to long range attacks, Pistols for medium to short range, Blunderbuss' for close quarters combat and heavy damage, firearms run the gamut and the Rifleman knows how to use them all. A rifleman could be anything from a farmer with almost no combat training avenging his fathers death, a trained stealth sniper working for his nation, or a cheap adventureer looking to make quick money without learning to use a bow. Rifleman are a powerful addition to any group, but can't work alone. If an enemy gets close and a rifleman is unprepared they are basically defenseless since they don't wear heavy armor, and take attacks of opportunity from their only proficient weapons. Adventures: Rifleman adventure for many different reasons. As guards and assassins, as spelunkers, or pirates, as defenders of their homes. Rifleman can be in any situation, at any given time, and are growing steadily in numbers across the realms. Characteristics: Rifleman are as strong as fighters if they were focused in ranged combat. Rifleman must clean and oil their weapons everyday or after 3-days the weapon will begin to deteriorate and the wielder will lose all abilities, as well as taking -2 accuracy, and damage. After 10-days the weapon will no longer function, 5-days if it has been used in battle twice without being cleaned. Alignment: Rifleman may be of any alignment. Anyone who can hold a 10inch pole can use a rifle, and anyone who can lift a 5-lbs weight can use a pistol. Background: Rifleman can come to their classes in any number of ways. Having grown up shooting cans in the backyard, military training, wanting to fight straight-forward but not being blessed with the strength to do hand-to-hand combat is usually what leads people to be rifleman. Races: Humans and Half-Elves take to rifleman quickly if they don't have very much time to train since rifles are simple to use and reload. Dwarves take to rifles easily as well since their sturdy size reduces kick. Halflings enjoy pistols since they're easy to conceal and wield, Gnomes enjoy tinkering with the firearms and mixing them with magical effects, Half-Orcs prefer to take advantage of their strength, and Elves, although graceful enough, would rather use the bow. Other Classes: While rifleman excell greatly at distance fighting, they usually need someone to cover their backs and keep the front-line way ahead of them. Fighters, Barbarians, and other combat classes make perfect partners for Rifleman.

    Game Rule Information

    Abilities: Dexterity is the most important ability for accuracy, and avoiding damage. Inteligence for more skills, and Constitution for a good health rating incase things get ugly. Hit Dice: d6. Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Heal, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope. Skill Points: 1st lv 8X Int mod X4, every other level 8X Int mod.


    I don't want to put the table here mainly because I don't know how, but it basically has the Base Attack Bonus of the Monk, and the Saves of the Fighter. I might want to change the saves to the Rogue's though, but I'm not sure yet. Here's the special abilities they get and their proficiency.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Rifleman is proficient with all simpel weapons, and all firearms. They are also proficient in Light armor. Flanking Fire: Riflemen are able to maneuver to their foes' sides and backs, and take advantage of the way this exposes these foes to attack. A Rifleman's ranged attacks count as melee attacks for the purposes of determining and awarding flanking bonuses. Deadeye Shot: Riflemen are trained to be able to strike their enemies from unexpected angles even in the chaos of a melee. Deadeye Shot acts like Sneak Attack, but only works with ranged weapons. A Rifleman can only use Deadeye Shot at ranges up to 45 ft, while either the target is denied a Dexterity bonus to AC or the Rifleman is considered to be flanking his target. Feats that apply to Sneak Attack apply to Deadeye Shot similarly. Deadeye Shot can be used to qualify for classes that require Sneak Attack, and any improvements to Sneak Attack that this class would gain are instead granted to Deadeye Shot. A Rifleman with levels as a Rogue may apply damage from both Sneak Attack and Deadeye Shot. As with a Sneak Attack, the extra damage dealt by Deadeye Shot is not multiplied on a critical hit. Fake-Out: Starting at 2nd level, Riflemen are able to take advantage of a successful feint with their ranged attacks. Perform this feint as normal, making a Bluff check against the target's Sense Motive check. Flash of Insight: A Rifleman's natural gift at locating targets improves his ability to notice other things as well. Starting at 4th level, he adds 1/2 his class level to Spot, Search, and Listen checks. As a psi-like ability, this is negated by effects that dispel or nullify psionics, but is always active, and never provokes attacks of opportunity. Headshot: Starting at 5th level, Riflemen become able to aim their ranged attacks at their enemies' weak points. Once a day, he may expend his use of this ability as a swift action to make his next attack, if successful, an automatic critical hit. He doesn't add his base attack bonus to this roll. If this attack misses, the use of the ability is expended without effect. The Rifleman gains an additional use of this ability every 5 levels afterward. This ability cannot be used in conjunction with a Sneak Attack, Deadeye Shot, or similar ability. Uncanny Dodge: At 6th level, the Rifleman's ability to avoid damage improves. As long as he's wearing light or no armor, he retains his Dexterity bonus to AC, even while flat-footed or against invisible attackers. He still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If the Rifleman already has Uncanny Dodge from another class, he gains Improved Uncanny Dodge instead. Rapid Feint: At 10th level, a Rifleman's advanced training and years of experience allow him to feint more rapidly than ever. He is from here on able to make a Bluff check to feint in combat as a move action. If he could do so already, he becomes able to make this Bluff check to feint as a swift action. If he can do this already as well, he becomes able to make this bluff check as a free action. Covering Fire: Starting from 12th level, Riflemen can expend a move action to do nothing. Upon doing so, and until their next turn, they threaten attacks of opportunity with their ranged weapon out to 30 ft. Shootout: A Rifleman's reflexes and skill increase his ability to fight effectively with his ranged weapon even at close quarters. Starting at 18th level, he no longer provokes attacks of opportunity for using ranged weapons in melee. Unpredictable: At 20th level, the Rifleman becomes able to switch targets on the fly. Making a Bluff check to feint becomes a swift action. If he could do this already, he becomes able to make a Bluff check to feint as a free action.



    That's all there is, tell me if you would do more or what you would take out please. I really want to add this class through because I've got a total number of classes at 249 without it...

    Well that and because I want firearms to be as big a part of this campaign as bows are.

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    Sounds like a good class, but for a game other than D&D. I don't believe in bringing firearms into my campaigns.

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    hmmm, interesting ideas... should have an ability about mass fire when with allies who are also of the same class. i would need to spend more time than i have to consider the balancing issues, though.
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
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    There are a number of rifleman classes out there for the 3. system in some of the mongoose books. This looks pretty clean but you could also look at them as well for comparisons.

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    Soft Serve's Avatar
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    I like firearms in D&D. I think it looks alright for now, but I think I'm missing something.

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    Let's see.

    We are doubtless talking standard muzzle loaders. You get one shot every three rounds. The best trained infantry of any era could only load once every 20 seconds.

    Why not fighter BAB and heavy armor? Nothing about using a gun requires you move quickly. If the gun is their weapon and they do nothing else, give them the Fighter BAB.

    I find myself asking why a class? An exotic weapons Feat for firearms would cover it. Anyone that is just a gunner and only a gunner is meat. Recall the "Three Musketeers" were very good with swords.

    Armies of the Renaissance that used guns were backed up with blocks of pikemen. An empty gun is called a "club". It was about this time the bayonet was invented.

    Frankly, what I know of old guns they are a lousy weapon to adventure with. "BANG" and the bad guys cut you up. No one is going to stand around for two rounds while you reload.

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    If you want firearms to be as big a part of the campaign as bows are, there are two ways to do it. Leave them as is, make their manufacture reasonably simple, and many people will be spending the exotic weapon proficiency feat. (In this case you'll be wanting to make them semi-automatic, where you spend a full round loading it with... say... 12 shots or so, and reload it as it's depleted.

    Could be interesting, that's for sure.
    Last edited by Lucian-Sunaka; 02-15-2009 at 06:51 PM.
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    As I related to my group today, I have a thing for bayonets.

    May I suggest renaming the class "musketeer" (as I expect it's muskets the class uses) and a class feature called "Kord save the queen" (or whatever) that gives them a free Intimidate check with a bonus (+1/4 levels, round up?) on a bayonet charge.

    Just an idea...

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    just remember, that it was firearms that changed the balance or fighting and war forever. it was firearms, and the related tech developments that helped make obsolete the knight, the samurai, the pikeman, the archer, and many other units in war....
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
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    Quote Originally Posted by nijineko View Post
    just remember, that it was firearms that changed the balance or fighting and war forever. it was firearms, and the related tech developments that helped make obsolete the knight, the samurai, the pikeman, the archer, and many other units in war....

    No, it was EFFECTIVE firearms that rendered those classes obsolete. They still used swords on the battlefields of the civil war, albeit for decoration more often then not, but they were there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    No, it was EFFECTIVE firearms that rendered those classes obsolete. They still used swords on the battlefields of the civil war, albeit for decoration more often then not, but they were there...
    Emphasis added. Take a look at what you just said...

    You were right though: effective firearms rendered swords obsolete. Which is exactly why I wouldn't point to Japanese katanas in WWII in an attempt to prove anything about the sword's relevance in warfare, even though swords were used.

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    Actually, firearms do have a place in D&D. Understandably, wizards will hate "riflemen" for butting into their area (ranged attacks without effort). How effective are firearms in your world? How often do they explode and hurt their user? On a muzzle loading gun, one shot per 20 secs is about standard for people who specialize in that weapon. Once you get up to revolvers and such, the stats change obv. At that point, you get into quickdraw, rapid shot, trick shot, etc. You could even let uber level characters "curve the bullet" ala Wanted.

    I disagree about the armor. They should be proficient with light armor at most (put on 50-100 pounds of steel and try tomove your arms around quickly) and small or med martial weapons, as well as exotic weapons such as bayonets.

    With regard to firearms changing the face of battle, it should be noted that only *groups* of musketeers ever managed to effectively harm the enemy at a distance. The accuracy of ball and powder weapons is horrible at any range over 20 feet and just gets worse the father out you go. It wasn't until bullets and spiral grooved barrels were designed that the weapon got accurate.
    Last edited by Shadow Knight; 02-17-2009 at 04:11 PM.

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    Emphasis added. Take a look at what you just said...

    You were right though: effective firearms rendered swords obsolete. Which is exactly why I wouldn't point to Japanese katanas in WWII in an attempt to prove anything about the sword's relevance in warfare, even though swords were used.

    Yeah I was trying to be funny.

    So here's a counter-arguement.

    Bow's did the same thing when they became popular didn't they? English archers would force enemy armies into submission with just their faces. English archers were actually so hated by the rest of the world that upon capture their thumbs and forefingers were chopped off. An english archer practising in his kingdom could kill a person and NOT be penalized for it simply because he was an english archer. I'd imagine the case to go something like this..

    "Well he shoulden't have been walking where our archer was shooting...NEXT CASE"

    Rifles you can shoot 6 times, then reload. Bows you can shoot as many damn times as you have arrows, SILENTLY, and with the right money enchant both the bow & the arrows to do more damage then a rifle ever could, not to mention that the fighter, ranger, and countless other classes begin with the ability to use these. (one giant run-on sentence)

    This goes without saying that if your character could learn magic no matter what class they were, or pick up a rifle, you would undoubtedly take the magic.

    The rifleman has a place in my game because crossbows are just annoying, and I'd rather replace them with something people actually would be comfortable using. I'd much rather shoot a musket then a crossbow because that thing looks like it would just backfire and give me either splinters or destroy my ribcage if something went wrong.


    ....I'd much rather explode from a gunpowder accident....


    Plus rifles have so many disadvantages.

    1 attack turn reloading.
    Attack of opportunity when used.
    Easy to break.
    fires VERY LOUDLY giving away the riflemans position instanty.
    Ammunition and the rifle itself are extremly expensive due to their rarity.
    and it does no more damage then a longsword.
    Not to mention there's no way of getting the bullet back when you fire it unlike an arrow which has a %50 of breaking or getting stuck or something like that.

    on top of all this rifleman have almost no training with melee-fighting and after generation should have very little strength (since they don't need it for anything) relying on skillmonkey classes, healing classes, and fighting classes to be anywhere near effective, and would be the only class begining with the proficiency for firearms.

    So really the rifleman class is only good in massive campaigns and areas (Where my game more often then not takes the players when I DM) they make for the first line in ranged defence and keeping guard, and basically shooting that giant bugbear in the head while it chases down the rest of your team who are running to you for help!

    I'm not sure about the armor or skill points for this class, or the specials and it really does need more work, but I don't think rifles are unbalanced any more then a bow is. And as an avid crossbow hater they make the perfect replacement in any campaign.

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    now, i wasn't arguing the superiority of early guns to bows and arrows. and from a game mechanic and rules perspective, yes they are many limitations. the biggest shock to the world of war, was not the relative effectiveness. after all, as illustrated in one speech i gave, your average militiaman could fire a musket once every minute or so, big cloud of smoke, lousy accuracy-maybe 50 to 100 feet, if that-loud bang. (though there is something to be said for the sheer shock value of mass fire, that's for sure...) your average indian brave could fire around twenty times a minute with fair accuracy up to 200-ish feet depending, pretty much silently, and achieve greater penetration than a bullet of the time. anyway.

    the real body blow was the fact that a minimally trained peon or peasant could take out any noble or highly trained warrior they pleased. there used to be class distinction in war (and not character class either ;D), before, a peasant would not likely think about taking on a knight, and even if they did, probably get chopped. unless they had unique circumstances or overwhelming odds. it was more of a shock to the collective social psyche, i think.

    disgruntled peasant that managed to get a hold of a musket, could sit in a bush and take out a lord. that was a problem. and changed the world.

    anyway, i'm not a history expert, i just read a lot. i'm sure there are some gross and flagrant oversimplifications and glossing over of details in my commentary. sorry about that. ^^ i think that the mechanics can be bent to make them fit in to a campaign without undue issues, if careful thought is given. the roleplaying side however....
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soft Serve View Post
    Rifles you can shoot 6 times, then reload. Bows you can shoot as many damn times as you have arrows, SILENTLY, and with the right money enchant both the bow & the arrows to do more damage then a rifle ever could, not to mention that the fighter, ranger, and countless other classes begin with the ability to use these. (one giant run-on sentence)
    It took two years of constant practice to make a longbowman. (Being a modren archer that uses a stick and sting bow I know.) Guns, more expensive and less accurate, were popular because a week's drilling could make a gunner.

    This was also why the cross bow had a popularity. It was more unwieldy due to the cocking device, heavier and having less cast. Itt was easier to hit things with.

    Yes, you put a unit of longbowmen agaisnt a unit of Napoleonic mustket armed troops and the guys with the muskets lose. However, it is much cheaper to get more musket using troops.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Knight View Post
    I disagree about the armor. They should be proficient with light armor at most (put on 50-100 pounds of steel and try to move your arms around quickly) and small or med martial weapons, as well as exotic weapons such as bayonets.
    .
    I have seen a man in full plate armor do cartwheels. Next objection please. Heavy armor does not mean armor that makes you immobile If it did, guys in heavy armor would die right and left. I strongly disagree with maximum dex for heavy armors. If you are proficent in using that armor, and it is fitted to you, you can move easily and supplely in that armor. If you cannot you are an object on the battlefield called "cooling meat".

    Armor went out of use when guns came in becasue the armorers refused to make armor that would not protect people. Bullet proof armor was possible, but so heavy you couldn't use it.

    Bayonets are not "exotic" in function. It's called a "spear". A stick with a blade on the end. The two weapon fighting style, butt and blade you might have a point, but not for using the blade alone.

    Fact is if you look at the mannual of arms for the early period bayonet drill resembled pike drill exactly. It was only later that the possiblities of combining the heavy buttstock with the blade at the end stated to comer together.

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