Rules For Removing Enchantment From an Item?

[CelestialBarbarian]

Does anyone know if there are any rules for removing an enchantment from a magic item? I seem to recall seeing something somewhere but searching through the FAQ I couldn't find any. Thanks!

[nijineko]

there are not any standard rules for disenchanting magic items, with a few exceptions, as follows:

• the ever famous "mdj" or mordenkainen's disjunction can disenchant magic items. as a side note, an epic spell could easily duplicate this effect.
• the artificer class from the eberron campaign setting book has a class feature that has this effect. sixth level, if i recall off the top of my head.
• not explicitly listed as a valid effect, but wish and miracle effects and the like are able to create items with certain limits, so it stands to reason that un-creating similar items should easily be within the realm of possibility.
• crude, but technically legit, simply breaking the item will relieve it of its magical properties. and when repairing, don't re-enchant it. (note-not recommended to be attempted with a staff of the magi, or other similarly enchanted items.)
• some charged items can be drained, by either usage, or by certain other magic items which render them normal items again.
• and last, but certainly not least, if the dm says so, then it is. ^^ but the above could certainly be used as guidelines. houserule to the rescue!

[CelestialBarbarian]

there are not any standard rules for disenchanting magic items, with a few exceptions, as follows:

• the ever famous "mdj" or mordenkainen's disjunction can disenchant magic items. as a side note, an epic spell could easily duplicate this effect.
• the artificer class from the eberron campaign setting book has a class feature that has this effect. sixth level, if i recall off the top of my head.
• not explicitly listed as a valid effect, but wish and miracle effects and the like are able to create items with certain limits, so it stands to reason that un-creating similar items should easily be within the realm of possibility.
• crude, but technically legit, simply breaking the item will relieve it of its magical properties. and when repairing, don't re-enchant it. (note-not recommended to be attempted with a staff of the magi, or other similarly enchanted items.)
• some charged items can be drained, by either usage, or by certain other magic items which render them normal items again.
• and last, but certainly not least, if the dm says so, then it is. ^^ but the above could certainly be used as guidelines. houserule to the rescue!

Hi, nijineko, and thanks for the reply. I think maybe I didn't clarify what I'm looking for. I'm not looking to ruin or destroy a magic item, but rather to strip one or two abilities off a magic item so that one or two others can be added. It's currently a defending holy impact mighty cleaving +5 greathammer. Because the NPC who wields it has both the Cleave and Great Cleave feats, as well as Improved Critical, he gets no benefit from the impact or mighty cleaving abilities. He would like to get them both removed so as to be able to put evil outsider bane on the greathammer instead.

I thought I'd come across something, somewhere, that talked about how to do that. It might have been an old Dragon issue back under 3.0. I suppose one could break it, fix it, and then re-enchant it, but it might be cheaper to sell it and buy a new one with some or all of the enhantments he wants. (He's never used the defending ability, for that matter, that I can recall. If he were getting a new weapon he wouldn't bother with defending. He's a half-celestial barbarian2/cleric1/fighter4/ranger2/lightning warrior9, with the glory-bound and implacable flaws, so defending isn't really his thing. )

I looked at the artificer and couldn't find such an ability. Could you be thinking of the siphon charge ability of the Cannith wand adept?

[Drizzit red]

Dispell magic (if it from a high enough caster level), but that would get rid of everything on it.

You could also start over by getting a new MW weapon, and paying to get the enchantments placed on it.

[CelestialBarbarian]

Dispell magic (if it from a high enough caster level), but that would get rid of everything on it.

You could also start over by getting a new MW weapon, and paying to get the enchantments placed on it.

Thanks for responding, Drizzit. Dispel magic merely suppresses a magic item for 1d4 rounds.

I'm thinking about establishing a method whereby someone with the feat to enchant the item in the first place can remove an enchantment for either half or a quarter the cost of adding the enchantment in the first place. I'm not sure yet whether I'll require the character to have the spell or other prerequisite required to place the enchantment.

[spotlight]

If my poor old memory sreves, from early editions, Dispell can do it, but it needs permanence cast with it. But I think this is from the original DMG and I have not seen it in any later editions. So, if yer doing 4e, keep reserching ... or get a willing DM....

[CelestialBarbarian]

If my poor old memory sreves, from early editions, Dispell can do it, but it needs permanence cast with it. But I think this is from the original DMG and I have not seen it in any later editions. So, if yer doing 4e, keep reserching ... or get a willing DM....

I believe that in earlier editions dispel magic could remove the enchantments from a magic item, but allof them at once rather than selectively. Third Ed changed that to a short suppression. We're using 3rd Ed (3.5) as indicated by the little "3e" at the start of the thread's name.

[spotlight]

He, He, which is why you get a willing GM ....

[CelestialBarbarian]

He, He, which is why you get a willing GM ....

Well in this case I'm the DM, which is why I started talking about a possible house rule above.

[Drizzit red]

Sorry, with the house rules I play in, Dispell can do what I said...I am so used to it, I forgot what the spell description said.

We use a mixture of all the versions at our gaming table (except 4th that is)

The person casting the dispell obviously has to have a sufficient level to dispell the affects of the magic item. Most of the magic items in our wrld are assumed to be made by at least a level 12 character, so dispelling magical items becomes a rare thing.

[nijineko]

may i suggest that you have a disenchant spell? a variant of a dispell magic. use the artificer's ability and dispell as a guideline.

[CelestialBarbarian]

may i suggest that you have a disenchant spell? a variant of a dispell magic. use the artificer's ability and dispell as a guideline.

Thanks. I never got notice of your post. So how would your spell work? Remember that I'm looking to remove individual special abilities to make room for other special abilities; I'm no looking to disenchant the whole item.

[RealmsDM]

how's this: one of the supplemental rulebooks contains rules for "redeeming" evil items- for instance, taking a unholy sword of energy draining, and changing it into a holy sword.

you could take those rules, and just tweek them to suit your needs.

if i remember, the rulebook is something like the book of exalted deeds or something along those lines.

[CelestialBarbarian]

how's this: one of the supplemental rulebooks contains rules for "redeeming" evil items- for instance, taking a unholy sword of energy draining, and changing it into a holy sword.

you could take those rules, and just tweek them to suit your needs.

if i remember, the rulebook is something like the book of exalted deeds or something along those lines.

Those rule are in The Book of Exalted Deeds, and they don't help at all. Thanks for trying though.

[nijineko]

a disenchant spell would operate mostly using the rules for dispell, but make use of an effect similar to the artificer ability to drain/break down an item.

dispell has three main uses, targeted dispell, area dispell, and counterspell. the targeted affects a single target, be that person or object with the effect that each of the active effects on the person or item make a save or be suppressed. the area effect targets everything in an area, except magic items. the counterspell does what it says.

how this could be applied to the disenchant is that for a higher dc than the dispell, you could target a specific item, and attempt to disenchant it. in the case of an item who's properties you don't know, it would disenchant the first effect that failed a save vs the spell. in the case of a known item, you could target which effect you wanted. the dc is harder, because you are not simply suppressing an effect, you are attempting to safely unbind a specific portion of a magical effect while retaining the rest of the effects intact.

i would say that if you wanted, you could even have the area effect version, which would randomly disenchant a single effect from a single item, whichever first failed it's save. alternatively, you could stipulate that the caster level of the character has to be sufficient to make the item in question, in order to disenchant it. otherwise it is suppressed, like a dispell effect. come to think of it, that's a good stipulation for the targeted effect too.

and a counterspell version is possible too. instead of disenchanting an item, this would counter an effect from an item, sort of an item-only type of counterspell. this version would probably see a fair amount of use by player characters and npcs.

so there's my off-the-cuff suggestions for a disenchant spell. =D hope you find it handy.