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  Click here to go to the first special guest post in this thread.   Thread: Equipment muisings

  1. #16
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    Just a late-comer's opinion.

    The rules on Stunning (Saga page 162) read: "Only creatures can be stunned. Droids, vehicles, and objects are immune to stunning effects." (Emphasis is mine.)

    The half damage from the attack that is suffered by a target is technically (IMO) a part of the "stunning effects" described, since they are an effect of being hit by a stunning weapon. In that interpretation, this would mean that droids, vehicles, and objects would be immune to them.

    Even though the description of bondar crystals in KotOR doesn't specify that they do not ignore DR, it doesn't make sense to me that they would simply because they (the lightsabers) are designed for safety and training. If they ignored DR, it would more or less ignore the point of a training lightsaber.

    If we go back one edition of the rules to Revised Core and check the entry on training lightsabers in the Power of the Jedi sourcebook, page 54, the paragraph on blade diffusion reads: "A training lightsaber does not focus its power strongly enough to cut through objects. As a result, this weapon does not ignore hardness as a standard lightsaber does." (Emphasis is, once again, mine.)

    Hardness in the RCR is the equivalent of DR in Saga. While it's true that Saga and RCR are two different editions, you can clearly see the intent. To be internally consistent between editions, training lightsabers would not ignore DR.

    All that aside, I can probably get an official ruling for you if you really, really want one. Otherwise, you may as well do whatever suits you best.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrier Peaks View Post
    ... I can probably get an official ruling for you if you really, really want one.
    How is this possible!? Access to resources the rest of us do not have!!??

    Inquiring minds want to know!
    "I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken. About a great, many things."

    "It is not the rules that make or break a game, it's the GM and the players."


  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor Tremayne View Post
    How is this possible!? Access to resources the rest of us do not have!!??

    Inquiring minds want to know!
    I'm sure that many Bothans will die to bring us this information.

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    I don't think a lightsaber with a Bondar Crystal would allow the use of Severing Strike. SWSE, page 218, "Severing Strike: When you deal damage with a lightsaber that is equal to or greater than both the target's current hit points and the target's damage threshold (that is, when you would deal enough damage to kill your target), you may choose to use this talent."

    There is no way you can deal enough damage to a target to kill it with a stunning lightsaber, it would knock a living creature out and not kill them. Technically, you could destroy a droid with such a lightsaber, but I would say Severing Strike only works against living creatures. Living creatures can be killed, droids are destroyed, not killed.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cy the Wander View Post
    I don't think a lightsaber with a Bondar Crystal would allow the use of Severing Strike. SWSE, page 218, "Severing Strike: When you deal damage with a lightsaber that is equal to or greater than both the target's current hit points and the target's damage threshold (that is, when you would deal enough damage to kill your target), you may choose to use this talent."

    There is no way you can deal enough damage to a target to kill it with a stunning lightsaber, it would knock a living creature out and not kill them. Technically, you could destroy a droid with such a lightsaber, but I would say Severing Strike only works against living creatures. Living creatures can be killed, droids are destroyed, not killed.
    Good point! I would rule that since you are dealing stun damage there is no dismemberment possible.

    If you look at my example above though you can see that it is possible to deal a ton of damage with a stun lightsaber, couldn't hurt to carry one around!
    --- Merged from Double Post ---
    Now, to keep the discussion going!

    Jet packs in space! We see Obi Wan use one to board a CIS ship in the latest episode of The Clone Wars.

    Is it too generous to give a character wearing a jet pack in space a space speed of 1 square?

    Consider that 1 space square is about 500 km and it sounds incredible BUT there is no gravity or resistance so any sort of propulsion should be able to move you at incredible speeds!

    Right!? Right!?

    Discuss!
    Last edited by Inquisitor Tremayne; 01-08-2009 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Automerged Double Post
    "I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken. About a great, many things."

    "It is not the rules that make or break a game, it's the GM and the players."


  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor Tremayne View Post
    ...Now, to keep the discussion going!

    Jet packs in space! We see Obi Wan use one to board a CIS ship in the latest episode of The Clone Wars...
    While I don't know if the subject has been broached at all within the context of Star Wars Saga, Star Wars D6 made a distinction between "jet packs" and "rocket packs". Namely, "jet packs" were less expensive and had generally fewer charges but their design required atmosphere to function. "Rocket packs" were personal propulsion devices specifically intended for use in space but were a bit more costly.

    As to whether or not a rocket pack would allow a character to move on starship scale...I'm not sure. Considering their are some slower transports that only move 2 or 3 squares, even 1 square of movement seems a bit much. Tricky question...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webhead View Post
    While I don't know if the subject has been broached at all within the context of Star Wars Saga, Star Wars D6 made a distinction between "jet packs" and "rocket packs". Namely, "jet packs" were less expensive and had generally fewer charges but their design required atmosphere to function. "Rocket packs" were personal propulsion devices specifically intended for use in space but were a bit more costly.

    As to whether or not a rocket pack would allow a character to move on starship scale...I'm not sure. Considering their are some slower transports that only move 2 or 3 squares, even 1 square of movement seems a bit much. Tricky question...
    I concur.

    I am not up on ALL the new equipment presented in the latest Saga supplements but I don't think rocketpacks have been introduced yet. However, the Rocket Jumper (nod to WEG) talent tree has been and the talents apply to jetpacks.

    SO, unless it specifically states in the jetpack description...

    Question, did rocket packs have listed space speeds in WEG? I can't remember.
    "I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken. About a great, many things."

    "It is not the rules that make or break a game, it's the GM and the players."


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor Tremayne View Post
    ...Question, did rocket packs have listed space speeds in WEG? I can't remember.
    Based on the rocket pack listing in the corebook, it does not indicate that the user gains a "Space" movement rate. I'm pretty sure there were additional rocket pack listings in one of the Fantastic Technology guides, so I'll check their to see if they indicate otherwise.

    The entry in the corebook explains that rocket packs are heavier and louder than jet packs, but are faster. And I was surprised to discover that the credit listing for the sample rocket pack was only 400, while the Hush-About Jet Pack was 1800, however this is probably due to the fact that owning a jet pack only requires a fee or permit, while rocket packs (which are generally intended for military or security use) are of "restricted" availability. Also, the Hush-About is probably on the pricier end of jet packs as it is designed for greatly reduced noise output.
    HARRY DRESDEN — WIZARD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquisitor Tremayne View Post
    Consider that 1 space square is about 500 km and it sounds incredible BUT there is no gravity or resistance so any sort of propulsion should be able to move you at incredible speeds!
    Concerning the size of a space square being equal to 500km, I think that's a bit large. Saga Core, page 165 under the heading "Starship Scale" reads:

    "In starship scale, each square of the grid is abstract, representing a variable amount of space depending on the vehicles involved. In most cases, one square is hundreds or even thousands of meters wide."

    The size of a square in space is subjective to the size of the vehicles involved. Though the text indicates that a square can be thousands of meters wide, I think that 500km is way too big. 500 meters is probably a lot more in line with the intended design.

    Given that, I think it's more than reasonable for a player to have a movement of 1 square in space using the proper personal propulsion equipment.

  10. #25
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    [quote=Inquisitor Tremayne;58961]Good point! I would rule that since you are dealing stun damage there is no dismemberment possible.
    quote]

    Well if a stun lightsaber isn't intense enough to cut through flesh and bone, then steel would be an issue.

    Moving on to jet packs
    --- Merged from Double Post ---
    Jet packs could operate just fine. The issue is that a jet pack has 10 charges. And given that you would have to use just as many charges stopping as starting, you'd only get 5 charges for forward thrust.

    From what I would guess it would stack each round as far as movement, having the 6 square move add up to a 30 square speed after 5 rounds. 30 squares=45 meters so under 50m / turn(6 sec) 300m/min, 1800m/hr, let's round up again to 2Km/hr. So, if it is 500 km /starship square, we're looking at over a weekand a half for one starship square.
    Last edited by canadiansatan; 01-09-2009 at 12:10 AM. Reason: Automerged Double Post

  11. #26
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    On Bondar Crystals and Training Sabers

    Okay, I sent in my questions, as follows:

    1.) Bondar crystals cause stun damage. Does a lightsaber equipped with bondar crystals still ignore DR?
    2.) Can training lightsabers deflect blaster bolts or solid projectiles?
    3.) Does the half damage caused by a stunning weapon apply to non-living targets?
    The reply I got back was this:

    Training lightsabers/bondar crystal sabers behave in all ways, except damage, like lightsabers. That includes ignoring DR, deflecting, etc. Like normal stun damage rules, the half damage only applies to living targets. Most nonliving targets are immune to stun damage. So, you can’t cut open a door with a bondar crystal saber, but you can bypass an elite trooper’s DR.

  12. #27
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    Awesome! Duly noted!

    Thanks for doing that, so whom did you send your questions too?
    "I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken. About a great, many things."

    "It is not the rules that make or break a game, it's the GM and the players."


  13. #28
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    I know a couple of the guys who write the Saga material. It was one of them. I gave them the link to this forum, as well, so they may even drop in at some point.

    Gary

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrier Peaks View Post
    I know a couple of the guys who write the Saga material. It was one of them. I gave them the link to this forum, as well, so they may even drop in at some point.

    Gary
    Whaaaaaa!!??

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    "I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken. About a great, many things."

    "It is not the rules that make or break a game, it's the GM and the players."


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    I don't think a standard jetpack would work in space. My vague understanding is that for something like that to work in space you would need to carry the air (O2) to allow the fuel to burn. I imagine a jet pack strapped on the back and a something like a SCUBA tank behind that. Anyone know how much a tank of air weights? Probably something like 20 kilograms would be my wild ass guess.

    Say 200 credits for the tank of air (25 credits for a refill), one hour of work and a DC 20 Mechanics check to modify the jet pack to also release the oxygen in the right amount. There should be some danger of this whole thing exploding if you take a critical hit: rocket fuel plus pure O2 plus laser fire = flaming ball of firey death.

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