When to let gamers go.....

[Arch Lich Thoth-Amon]

Thankfully I haven't had to deal with any crazies. The only thing I've dealt with on a consistant basis is flakiness. Then again, everyone says that's an Atlanta thing. Anyone else deal with flakiness?

Hello Blond Gamer Girl,

It's probably a bit city thing, otherwise, I'd say California is home for the majority of gamer flakes - and crazies - in America. It's a state thing for us.

[tesral]

Thankfully I haven't had to deal with any crazies. The only thing I've dealt with on a consistant basis is flakiness. Then again, everyone says that's an Atlanta thing. Anyone else deal with flakiness?

Its a thing. A Generation something thing. I would say that my generation was the last one that considered social promises a thing you needed to keep. However, I have met plenty of flakes my own age. I've also heard that California the granola state. All the fruits, nuts, and flakes end up there. Not true, there are plenty in Michigan.

It's a people thing I fear.

[Nord_drache]

Let me open up with saying sorry for my absenteeism . . .life happens.

In our gaming lives sometimes crap happens and sometimes it just stinks
Luckily any smoking issues I've had to deal with have been nonexistant as a couple of the guys I regularly game with are seriously allergic to it.
I've dealt with my shares of flakes - the fun one in a group of DM's whose campaigns run 12 weeks or so each, is the new guy who just arrived and wondering if he could DM a session in a couple weeks The worst is a shared world campaign where the next DM went out of his way to trash what I built and talked behind my back - saying he should ask me to leave the group (funny thing is it was my group and we gamed at his place out of courtesy) - so I turfed the whole group . . . ya, I left. As others have noted - 30 years of gaming is bound to turn up some winners.

What drew me to this thread was something I need to sound out . . .
In our current group we alternate sessions - which works out very well. A coworker I introduced to gaming is the issue, call him T.
1: He falls back on the idea he has a photographic memory - gone in a flash. . .
2: He is a zealous atheist . . .
3: He's the type who often shoots his mouth off from the hip - full auto . . .
4: Has a hard time not trying to insert the real world into the game - be it magic or high tech . . .
5: Can't roleplay his way out of a wet paper bag . . .
6: Tends to be a cynic and fatalist who gives up too easily . . .
Well in the other game (4e DnD) T plays a dragonborn fighter and doesn't do to badly. In my game (Rifts) he wants an unusual exotic PC - a wolfen mystic, in my sessions the probs occur.
Because of 4,5,&6 his character doesn't live up to his potential - thats the polite way of saying it - and every additional skill, spell or power is weighed in value in combat etc - never also in roleplay or character colour. His character due to injuries had a number of penalties - when I looked back on the that session I remember how many close successes he had and how many of them didn't seem to have penalties . . . I don't think he was trying to cheat but he will probably fall back on 1 - even thoiugh he has a sheet with the penalties. (In the past when I told him of people who cheated, or power gamed - he voiced the question of why? When it was just a game.) When he gets back from vacation he will find his penalties printed out in 24 point print on yellow paper and be warned, that he treads into the realm of cheating.

So . . . how much slack does one cut? Or is it a case of due to his playing style his PC could soon die and if does -do I lay down the law and his new character is a basic fighter?

There's my quandry . . . and rant, all in one.

Jim

[Blond Gamer Girl]

Well, if the same thing happens at a job and you're the boss, here's the proper management way to handle it. At a good time and place, have a list of specific instances of the unacceptable and acceptable behaviors. Start with the positive and assurances, put the negative in the middle citing those instances and end with the positive. Actually, before you do that ask yourself if this player is worth the trouble. If not, heave ho. Hopefully that will promote the positive. Sometimes though folks just don't listen and sometimes they really do just need things pointed out.

Let us know how it goes.

[MisterBook]

I never got off the ground floor as a GM, the players were too....difficult to get into the setting.

Now as being a player, I usually leave a campaign when a GM treats me like I am stupid. I respect their table, they need to respect their players.

[KentDA]

Having seen a gaming group after enough beers, I can agree that saying no drugs(besides cigarettes) is a good rule. I'd even go as far as to say no pot before, during or after the game. As I've dealt with people who had a few hits and they quickly get out of control in ways.

As to removing players ... I've had to do that myself. I set the rules down, and they couldnt abide by them. I gave them fair warnings, but they didnt listen. So I politely, AFTER the game (not always an option like the guy who physically attacked a player), discussed it with him, said that I have rules to avoid problems, and while I was still his friend, he wasnt welcome back because the rules were there for a reason. Everyone knew them, and they were told up front what the rules were and why they existed.

Thankfully I've never had any bad blood from removing players (well, save for those who I already had bad blood with because of other issues).

The other most important thing, at least in my view, is to talk to the other players at the next session and explain (without going into details) why you had to remove the player. Keep it fair, keep it honest, and they'll respect you.

The biggest problem is when you run into the "friend" / the "girlfriend" / the "spouse". IE you remove the person who brought them, and sometimes they'll go at the same time. If they seem content to stay ... handle it with care. The last thing you want is to cause stress for them, and if it means encouraging them to leave to patch things up, its for the best.

No matter what, your friendship with the player(s) is whats most important. I'd rather lose a good player (even if they have issues at the moment that make gaming not a good idea) than a good friend.

[EG2]

Great Thread!

I've seen everything from players blowing up at the table, guns and alcohol, and even a vicious fist fight at the game tables I've been at. While these were extremes, I find the most common and irritating issues are the gamers with personality disorders. They don't necessarily try to beat people up or go into seizures at the game table but, they tend to inject a steady underlying current of bullshit into the campaign that slowly saps the fun out of it for everyone. You guys are exactly right, gaming groups are not therapy sessions, nor are they baby sitting or day care for big babies. Too many players out there try to use the game world as their own personal substitute for the real world. Their characters are actually themselves but, carefully constructed without the deficiencies they perceive to possess in real life. Essentially they are idealized versions of themselves. Because they are too inept and/or weak willed to face up to the (self created) problems they have in real life, they feel that a fantasy game world is an attractive alternative...because they now seemingly have the control over their lives that they lack in the real world.

Let's face it...an upside to gaming is that gamers tend to be a bit more educated or intelligent than the average person walking down the street. The flip side to that coin is that they tend to be more imbalanced and emotionally challenged as well. Yes...in other words a gamer is more likely to be a sicko than the non gamer. Wow! That's bad. Think about it though...what would be more attractive to someone out of touch with reality than a fantasy world that essentially only exists in the minds of a hand full of players? At least there, when you see a pink elephant you can cite a few more people (i.e. fellow players) that saw it too! Ha. The point is, the down side of gaming is that it attracts sickos like a summer night's lamp attracts moths and mosquitos. It's just something players have to deal with if they're gonna game.

In one Michigan group I was in, I played a lady character who was really glamorous and beautiful. This was actually a sci-fi campaign with an espionage slant. Our PCs were secret agents/special ops and my PC was very stylish...like a female James Bond almost. One of her shticks was that she was heavy into fashion...nearly every day for her was like the red carpet at the Oscars...designer gowns, expensive jewelry, exquisitely sculpted hair and nails...and sky high stiletto heels which she put to great use in character interaction scenes-and the occasional fight too. Unfortunately, one of the female PLAYERS at the game became very jealous (IRL) of my CHARACTER. At first it was just a snide remark here and there...then she had her character make a diary about mine which did nothing but, bad mouth my PC. All this female player ever did was criticize anything my PC did-especially her choice of attire. Her real life husband who was also in the game joined in on the bashing. Both in and out of character (there was no distinction as far as they were concerned) they constantly said that my PC was a "priss," or "useless," or all the haute couture was "unmilitary like" (even though we weren't soldiers in the military to begin with), high heels were "bad for women's feet," my PC "didn't look like a secret operative" (ummm...isn't that the best secret agent to be? Hello! Anybody home? LMAO!)...it never ended. Then came the day when this female player mistakenly thought my PC was killed and even stood up and clapped at the game table in celebration of it. Next session when she discovered my PC was still alive she looked like she just found out someone killed her puppy. This kind of sophomoric behavior really derailed the game for a while and completely ruined any chance of complete comradeship and team unity we should have had. Unbelievably this was all after my PC had saved their PC's lives at least once each!

It wasn't long before we figured out that this female player was just playing an idealized version of herself in order to compensate for deficiencies she felt she had in real life. Her character (and all those before it) looked just like she did in real life but, without her self perceived "defects" (e.g. IRL she was short and overweight but, her PC was tall and slim. Otherwise all other physical traits were the same-such as hair and eye color). She was horrible at role-play while I'm not too bad myself. I've been complimented several times that my character seemed like a REAL LADY while this female player I'm talking about had a character that has been described as merely a sheet full of stats and numbers.

We later found out that this female player was spending all day, everyday deluging the GM with literally dozens E-mails (they eventually accrued to number in the hundreds!) complaining about every little thing my (and later, another female character too) PC did. Every blink of an eye or breath my character took was made into some big deal or conspiracy that called for her to be killed or "addressed" by the GM. The GM quickly became annoyed. It was a big distraction from what was otherwise a great story/campaign...but, this female player and her hubby were big time hack and slashers. They didn't care. This couple could not be reasoned with and inevitably the game table fragmented into two camps: The female player, her hubby, and another guy that we later confirmed was off of his medication and regularly seeing a psychiatrist was one camp...and the rest of us were the other camp (and one neutral player). Things finally came to a head when they tried to lie to the GM and said a couple of us were going to show up to a session IRL and shoot everyone up with real guns! LMAO. The GM was sick of them as much as the rest of us were at that point so we went our own separate ways (until a few months later the GM discovered that they broke into his website but, that's another story...). The camps split up into two separate groups. The year after that I discovered that this female player's husband had started up the same sci-fi game at their house and guess what she played? Yep! She had the nerve to play a fashionista, socialite type of character just like the one I played before...yeah, the one she was constantly *****ing about for nearly the whole campaign!!! WTF!?!? This new character of hers had the same expensive gowns, jewelry and designer high heels mine had...but, when my character had them they were all "bad!" Lol. It was just the final confirmation that she was complaining about my PC out of jealousy the whole time. It was always obvious however.

The point of this particular anecdote is that it so well illustrates the typical problem player in this hobby. Most are not so bad as to start fights or sit on the ground crying but, their personal issues can easily derail a good campaign if left unchecked. This ruins things for all. This female player I described in a nutshell above was self absorbed, selfishly wanted all the spotlight and possessed a sense of entitlement which dictated she should be given the spotlight without proper role-play and gamesmanship. XPs were awarded more for good ideas and role-play than for combat in that campaign and was the reason my PC was always two or three levels ahead of this couple's characters. This female player was accustomed to her hubby's games where she automatically was rewarded the most XPs no matter what (and had a copy of all the other players' character sheets for some "mysterious reason" ;>).

In real life she had self esteem and insecurity issues...she had no job or career and didn't even have a driver's license. She rarely left the house at all. It was obvious that the games were her way of living the idealized life she fantasized about in her head without having to take any of the "risks" associated with reality. When she gamed with us the walls of reality began to come tumbling down and she couldn't handle it...she was being forced to face reality even in a game...the reality that the world didn't revolve around her and that we weren't her playthings to do with as she saw fit. No one else at the table mattered but, her.

So what should a gamer do with such sickos roaming the gaming world? Quite simple...Vet your players...vet, vet, vet!

1. In campaign syllabi, fliers and primers, always be clear, concise and to the point when saying what kind of player you are looking for. Don't be afraid to scare players off because that's part of what you WANT to do...scare off the riff raff. For example, "Hack and slashers, sickos and pot heads need not apply..."

2. Do the same when describing the campaign. Don't be afraid to say the campaign is mostly role-play and story. This sends hack and slashers running like cock roaches when the light turns on.

3. Any bad apples that slip through the cracks need to be dealt with swiftly and firmly. You owe it to the good players if nothing else. If you're not cut out to "confront" players, then you probably shouldn't be GMing. It's part of the job. You can't be that weak willed and be a complete GM. It's that simple. It's better to experience a moment of displeasure than endure it for a whole campaign (if it even lasts at that point). Remember, a coward dies 10,000 deaths. Don't feel bad if you get called an "*******" or "prick" sometimes...spoiled brats tend to react that way to grownups when they don't get their way...

Happy gaming!

As a DM/GM, over the years, most of the people in the group were pretty cool, but there has been a few times that I had to either threaten to expell a person from the group or actually do it. One of the major rules of joining our gaming sessions is that the gamer has to have a least somewhat a firm grasp on reality. One of the women in my group became upon when her character's finacee ( a NPC) was seduced by another NPC. She became so upset, that se sat on the floor next to my front door crying. I cautioned her that if she couldnt handle it, she had no business playing with the group. She straighten up for a while, but finally drifted away from the group,
Another case was when one of our grown-up gamers (who happen to be gay) would not stop hitting on the teenage boys in the group. Now I have never held anything against a gay person, but this unwanted attention to the teenagers was embarassing for them and the rest of the group. We warned him repeatively and the teenagers themselves started to threaten real physical violence to him. We no longer game with him and I will not speak to him anymore. I had teenage sons myself. Any suggestions how to handle problem gamers?

[Malruhn]

Three items:
1. Holy necro-post, Batman!! Last activity was in 2011... almost 4 years ago!

2. Yeah, you are spot on with almost all of what you say. It is the GM's fault for all of this.

3. What is the definition of "sicko"?? THAT'S where you might get into trouble. I know folks that this term would describe folks of other religions than they have. Others would say homosexuality counts in while others would say that's cool but trans/pan/asexuality counts instead. Others would say overweight and greasy. One group I TRIED to play with described all military folks as "sickos and baby-killers". Some consider illicit drug users to be sickos.
You have to be very careful about using that term, as it carries butt-loads of baggage.

I've got strict rules at my table: no illegal drug use during or immediately preceding a gaming session (if you are stoned, don't show up). No more than one alcoholic drink per six-hours worth of gaming (I've had WAY too many sessions of drunken idiocy while trying to game). No hitting on folks at the table - and that includes from partners/spouses. No romantic baggage at the table - if A and B used to date and broke up last week, don't bring your broken heart to the table. No discussion of real-life politics or real life religion at the table - if you wanna argue about whether Zeus or Odin would win in a fight, go for it - just don't talk about what is going on on Earth at this time (and probably not in historic perspectives, either!!). If you have unexcused absences, don't ***** if the party levels up or gets loot without you, and if you are gone too many times we'll have a talk about you possibly leaving the group. If you make a threat of real violence at the table, you get warned once - a second time and you are gone, no excuses or third chances.

[EG2]

1. Ha! When it comes to this topic, unfortunately the issue never truly goes away. I see your point though.

2. I see your point here too but, it might be better to say that the GM has the ultimate responsibility than to say it's necessarily all his or her fault. There are cases where it's all the GM's fault but, in many cases there's a "collaborative effort" involved (see enabler below). We've all been in games where a GM has stepped up to the plate to deal with a problem player, only to have some of the players not only fail to support him but, actually rally behind the problem player and lobby for an extra chance, only to see the game fall apart a few months later. In such a case while the GM should have stuck to his guns, the players should have honestly supported him too. It's more than just the GM's fault in this scenario even though he should take the lion's share of the blame.

3. I see where you're coming from here but, you may be missing the point a bit. What I'm saying is that I'm trying to do the very thing you say I might "get into trouble" about. I WANT that to happen. The whole point is to ferret out the sickos BEFORE they get to the game table. I treat vetting like a job interview. I'm going to throw in key words or phrases and see what response I get. Any normal person would understand the context of how I'm using the term sicko when discussing a campaign. Anyone else who decides to stretch it into something from way out in left field, or rationalize some way to use it as an excuse to go on some kind of personally validating mouth foaming rant probably won't get the thumbs up in the end. If I'm hanging my game syllabus/primer on the hobby shop wall which says, "Cry babies, sickos, and those with diagnosed mental problems need not apply..." only to have some nitwit say, "Hey, the NaZi's had a sterilization program for the mentally ill back in the 1930s so you must be Joeseph Mengele! I'm calling the Israeli embassy you monster!" as he swings a chair at me, don't expect me to okay such a moron to join my campaign. Don't expect me to join yours if he's a player either. The point is that ploy worked just the way it was supposed to and I caught this idiot before he slipped through the cracks. I owe it to my players if nothing else. Remember, there are TWO kinds of *******s in gaming. The first is the well known overbearing jerk who's rude, interrupts everyone else's scenes, thinks he's the star while everyone else is his supporting cast, and has the nerve to get mad when he can't get away with cheating or something doesn't go his way. Then there's the ENABLER/VICTIM. This leach is actually more common than the overbearing *******. This is the player who seems cool at first but, ultimately exhibits "passive-aggressive" behavior to cause problems, and/or is an enabler of the jerk mentioned above. The enabler/victim promotes an atmosphere conducive for the overbearing jerk to thrive in much the same way a toilet, sewer or garbage dump promotes an unhealthy environment in which bacteria and germs thrive. In many ways the enabler victim is worse than the overbearing jerk because they are harder identify, and they are a "force multiplier" to the jerk's poor behavior, in addition to their own problems they bring to the table. These two "player" types are game table cancer...they are sickos anathema to any good game and need to be rooted out at the earliest opportunity. Better for them to take the bait and expose themselves by their sicko reaction to the term 'sicko' up front, than cause REAL TROUBLE at the game table. If you are honest about what you're doing, don't be afraid to "get into trouble" vetting player candidates...in fact, embrace it. It'll save you a lot more trouble down the road...in fact, the campaign you save might be your own...

Three items:
1. Holy necro-post, Batman!! Last activity was in 2011... almost 4 years ago!

2. Yeah, you are spot on with almost all of what you say. It is the GM's fault for all of this.

3. What is the definition of "sicko"?? THAT'S where you might get into trouble. I know folks that this term would describe folks of other religions than they have. Others would say homosexuality counts in while others would say that's cool but trans/pan/asexuality counts instead. Others would say overweight and greasy. One group I TRIED to play with described all military folks as "sickos and baby-killers". Some consider illicit drug users to be sickos.
You have to be very careful about using that term, as it carries butt-loads of baggage.

I've got strict rules at my table: no illegal drug use during or immediately preceding a gaming session (if you are stoned, don't show up). No more than one alcoholic drink per six-hours worth of gaming (I've had WAY too many sessions of drunken idiocy while trying to game). No hitting on folks at the table - and that includes from partners/spouses. No romantic baggage at the table - if A and B used to date and broke up last week, don't bring your broken heart to the table. No discussion of real-life politics or real life religion at the table - if you wanna argue about whether Zeus or Odin would win in a fight, go for it - just don't talk about what is going on on Earth at this time (and probably not in historic perspectives, either!!). If you have unexcused absences, don't ***** if the party levels up or gets loot without you, and if you are gone too many times we'll have a talk about you possibly leaving the group. If you make a threat of real violence at the table, you get warned once - a second time and you are gone, no excuses or third chances.

[rossi]

I have strict principles at my table: no illicit medication use amid or promptly going before a gaming session (on the off chance that you are stoned, don't appear). Close to one mixed beverage for each six-hours worth of gaming (I've had WAY such a large number of sessions of tanked folly while attempting to diversion). No hitting on people at the table - and that incorporates from accomplices/companions. No sentimental things at the table - if An and B used to date and separated a week ago, don't convey your broken heart to the table. No dialog of genuine legislative issues or genuine religion at the table - in the event that you wanna contend about whether Zeus or Odin would win in a battle, pull out all the stops - simply don't discuss what is happening on Earth as of now (and most likely not in notable points of view, either!!). In the event that you have unexcused nonattendances, don't ***** if the gathering step up or gets plunder without you, and in the event that you are gone too often we'll have a discussion about you conceivably leaving the gathering. In the event that you make a risk of genuine savagery at the table, you get cautioned once - a second time and you are gone, no reasons or third shots Bluestacks TextNow VPN