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  Click here to go to the first special guest post in this thread.   Thread: Ask a GM [07/15/08]: Handling Rules Lawyers

  1. #136
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    Descronan

    For me, Scripts are too close to the Old Railroad System.
    "Don't worry, nothing you do will change the outcome of the Character/Campaign."

    Sure, lay out a basic Idea for the (Player) Character or the {DM} Campaign that you are running. But always remember that things are going to change as the Game moves along.

    One failed roll can mean that an important Character is taken out of the main fight. And if they were the only one that could beat the Challenge then the other PCs get hosed.

    A creative Player should be able to have their Rogue or Fighter acomplish the goal that the Mage or Cleric was supposed to be the only one to do it.
    Sure, they may need a Magical Item (and perhaps the Use Magic Device Skill) to pull it off, but it's still possible.

    Yes, these things are (mostly) covered by the D&D Rules, but not everyone knows or thinks of them. And if the DM does not make room for it to happen in their Script, then this is lost.
    Underestimate No One.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonDM View Post
    Descronan

    For me, Scripts are too close to the Old Railroad System.
    "Don't worry, nothing you do will change the outcome of the Character/Campaign."

    Sure, lay out a basic Idea for the (Player) Character or the {DM} Campaign that you are running. But always remember that things are going to change as the Game moves along.
    Agreed. Hard scripts suck. If you don't do things EXACTLY like the GM intended then you fail. What kind of BS is that?
    Randal Snyder
    Sundered Epoch.org

  3. #138
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    Screw hard scripts. In the one short-lived D&D 3.5 campaign that I've run, what I consider to be my best secession as DM was largely the result of a completely unexpected action taken by one of my players (I mean who in the nine hells yells after a horde of orcs that has just narrowly missed seeing you emerge from the wreckage burning ship?) that ended up taking the entire party off the map as far as my intentions for the next few sessions went.

    They were supposed to explore some wartorn countryside and get some clues as to the true nature of the factions involved, but they got taken prisoner instead. They were rescued by a recurring NPC that I had up my sleeve and had to take a detour through a spider infested forest that I had conjured up at the spur of the moment. Other new plot avenues opened up, and the whole affair created a set up for a battle against a crazed spider-themed Druid.

    My only big mistake that day is that I ended up revealing some stuff in direct dialog that I was going to slowly let the players figure out themselves. Chalk that one up to my inexperience and the fact that I was trying to figure out where the game was going in real time.

    Of course, since I didn't have everything planned out just so I was put into the position of having to throw the dice solely for the noise a couple of times
    Last edited by Regicide; 02-03-2010 at 08:54 AM.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regicide View Post
    They were supposed to explore some wartorn countryside and get some clues as to the true nature of the factions involved, but they got taken prisoner instead. They were rescued by a recurring NPC that I had up my sleeve
    Not my favorite thing as a player or DM to have the cavalry to the rescue scenario. But as you say it was at a time of inexperience.

  5. #140
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    It's probably not really something that I'd have done if I wasn't winging it.
    But then the NPC in question didn't exactly fight off a horde of howling orcs. He didn't carry the party back to town in a sack. He just helped them sneak out of the orc camp and acted as a guide. And of course, when he got captured by the spider-crazy Druid shortly thereafter, the party got to return the favor by embarking on a side quest to rescue him.

  6. #141
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    Now that's cool! Good job winging it on that one.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Descronan View Post
    Agreed. Hard scripts suck.
    If you don't do things EXACTLY like the GM intended then you fail.
    What kind of BS is that?
    This is called Gygax-ing: Another form of Railroading.

    Gary Gygax, while smart enough to co-create the D&D Game (who can name the other co-creator?) was not very tolerant of other people.

    To Mr Gygax, there was only one solution to the Challenge that he had created.

    If you could not figure it out, then you failed - and Mr Gygax considered that person to be dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Regicide View Post
    It's probably not really something that I'd have done if I wasn't winging it.
    But then the NPC in question didn't exactly fight off a horde of howling orcs. He didn't carry the party back to town in a sack. He just helped them sneak out of the orc camp and acted as a guide. And of course, when he got captured by the spider-crazy Druid shortly thereafter, the party got to return the favor by embarking on a side quest to rescue him.
    Quote Originally Posted by cigamnogard View Post
    Now that's cool! Good job winging it on that one.
    Very nicely done.

    A lot of my games are what others would call "Winging It".
    Since I will grab basic Ideas from several locations - novels (D&D and other Fantasy novels) video games, as well as Moduals (large and small)
    - from Ancient (0e), to Venerable (AD&D 1e), to Old (AD&D 2.5), to Juvenile, to Wyrmling(4e).

    I will then place these into each Town/City or Rest Place and let the Players decide which one (or combination) to do.
    Last edited by DragonDM; 02-04-2010 at 07:00 PM.
    Underestimate No One.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonDM View Post
    (who can name the other co-creator?)
    You mean Dave Arneson, the guy who introduced little things like armor class, hit-points, role-playing (a concept that that Gygax was never fully comfortable with by many reports) and a few other such little insignificant bells and whistles into the game? The fellow who basically house-ruled a fantasy miniatures wargame called Chainmail into what we know as D&D?

    You know- Dave Arneson, the Ub Iwerks of gaming?
    was not very tolerant of other people
    Hence all the Gygax/Arneson litigation of yore? They were probably both to blame for that nonsense. Who knows... sometimes nerds just can't get along
    Last edited by Regicide; 02-04-2010 at 08:08 PM.

  9. #144
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    Regicide - Correct!

    The real contention between Gygax and Arneson was the introduction of Roleplaying into the D&D games.

    The second one was the fact that Gygax stole all the credit for "making the game". by placing his name on every book that he could, and downplaying all that Arneson did.
    Underestimate No One.

  10. #145
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    Not sure if this has been said or not, but there is a great cure for any players that you have that may be "rules lawyers". Take a break from your regularly scheduled game and run a few sessions of Paranoia. 8)

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