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View Poll Results: Kobolds are fodder

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Thread: 3.5e Kobolds are fodder

  1. #1
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    3.5e Kobolds are fodder

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    In 3.5e I have killed more kobolds in my sleep as a wizard than there are grains of sand in my back yard. They're fodder.

    (See, that's how you start a new thread and not derail someone else's thread.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronpyatt View Post
    In 3.5e I have killed more kobolds in my sleep as a wizard than there are grains of sand in my back yard. They're fodder.

    (See, that's how you start a new thread and not derail someone else's thread.)
    your dm was a poor game master. kobolds have been vicious little bastards since the beginning.
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    ronpyatt's Avatar
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    I've never met a DM that could do with a kobold as you describe. They were strictly for XP gifts from the DM.

    So, how would does a 3.x kobold succeed in harassing a group of PC's?

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    Changed my mind
    Last edited by Dimthar; 06-21-2008 at 11:19 PM. Reason: I was just b****ing ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronpyatt View Post
    I've never met a DM that could do with a kobold as you describe. They were strictly for XP gifts from the DM.

    So, how would does a 3.x kobold succeed in harassing a group of PC's?
    Most DMs are too nice to use Kobolds as per the MM. When 3rd came out, I used Kobolds as my training tool for the new system. Even numbers of Kobolds to PCs, Kobolds ended up killing the whole party first 5 or 6 times. Took a while till the party was able to work together to survive a proper 1st level CR.

    Kobolds are quite good with traps, no matter the surrounding. They should also never attack the group in even numbers.

    Kobolds should use area for a fight to their advantage. Begin w/ even number of Kobolds to PCs. Kobold start with slings on the flat-footed party first round. The party moves to close with the Kobolds, only to discover traps (pits w/ tripwires in front is my favorite - 1st Spot check for the tripwire, 2nd for the pit). Kobolds retreat a bit to further range. Once party finally reaches them, AMBUSH! This is where the 2 to 1 odds in favor of Kobolds come in (or appropriate). Throw in at least 1 Kobold Sorcerer and maybe a Cleric for good times.

    Killed a party of 4th lvl PCs, 5 of them, using the above. Kobolds - 1 Lvl3 Warrior, 1 Lvl2 Cleric, 1 Lvl2 Sorcerer, 5 Lvl1 Warriors and Traps.

    Tripwires - Spot DC 12 (+2 DC if charging or running) and Pits - Spot DC 14 (+2 DC running or charging). Funny to Spot one trap but miss other. See a Tripwire, but not Pit, jump wire and land in pit. See Pit but not wire, trip on wire into pit you already saw. Pits were 20 ft deep w/ spikes at bottom. 1d6 falling and 1d4 spikes. 8ft Jump check to clear pit or Spot DC 14 to find safe way past (player had to declare looking for way, no freebie check). Of course the "safe" way across was a board that only needed to carry the weight of a Kobold with no more than 20lbs of extra weight, not a heavy PC (10 coins per lb, and PC always got lots of coin).

    I am told I can be a bastard. Dunno why?
    Last edited by Kilrex; 06-21-2008 at 10:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronpyatt View Post
    I've never met a DM that could do with a kobold as you describe. They were strictly for XP gifts from the DM.

    So, how would does a 3.x kobold succeed in harassing a group of PC's?
    we, being myself, a paladin, my ranger buddy, a wizaed we picked up on the way and a rogue that just kind of fell in with us on the road (all third level, 3.5 rules), were exploring an old gnome mine (looking for bloodstones, it was a faerun game). the mine had been settled and was being worked by a small group of kobolds, who had been there for about three months (according to the ranger).

    the kobolds, being a weaker race, but skilled at mining and construction, had honeycombed the mines with secret shafts, pit traps, noise alarms (trip wired and such) and a few magic mouths (they had a third level sorcerer in the group, acting as the leader).

    the ranger alerted us to the presence of kobolds, so we were on our toes and expected traps and guerilla tactics from the start, but our rogue blew his roll on the very first attempt to locate a trap, and i fell into the pit (the rogue was a gnome, and too light to set off the pit that the kobolds had set to not trip if they had to run across - a clever tactic, as pursuers wouldnt think there would be a trap on ground the kobolds just fled across...). i took some damage from the fall and the spikes at the bottom, but not too much. the kobolds, however, were alerted to our presence...

    using their secret passages, they harrassed us constantly, never getting close enough to effectively engage in melee, thus keeping me out of the fight, but darting in and out to make ranged attacks, from hidden alcoves, arrow slots camofladged in the walls, etc. by the third encounter, we had used up our meager supply of curing potions, and by the fifth, my lay on hands was spent. our ranger did manage to kill a few of our tormentors returning missile fire, and the rogue inflicted some damage as well, but, alas, my dex was low and ranged combat not my forte, so, again, i was fairly neutralized. the wizard was fine, having mage armor, and hiding behind me, but soon that went south as well.

    once we were weakened by the pestering attacks, the kobold sorcerer made his appearance. using a wand of magic missiles (1 per round), and constantly hit and running, he had us in a near panic.

    the tactics employed by the kobolds had the secondary effect of herding us into their traps, and not giving the rogue time to do his job.

    so, by the time the wizard fell unconcious, we decided perhaps we should find a nice roving band of hobgoblins who would be nice enough to give us a stand up fight, and slunk out of the mines with our tails between our legs...

    edit: and these are tactics kobolds have been described as using since 1e AD&D and every edition since...
    Last edited by agoraderek; 06-21-2008 at 11:07 PM.
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    kilrex, wait, YOU were the dm in the game i just decribed? and here i thought it was jeremy the whole time...
    "well, g'night! dont let the flesh eating demon bed babies bite!!"
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    Kobolds are whatever the dm wants them to be. They can be fodder, they can be an elite band of psycho monsters with templates and class levels, or they can just be kobolds. They have a lot of handicaps to overcome but they have several advantages: they are clever, they are small creatures with movement 30, they are really good with traps, and they are great at mining. Kobold lairs are generally too small for medium size creatures to navigate without squeezing, filled with traps, and loaded with fast moving kobolds who know how to use their traps.
    As a dm, if I use kobolds, be afraid.
    As a player I'm inherently nervous about meeting kobolds in game, they frighten me. I underestimated them once and almost got a tpk for my trouble.

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    Any small creature is fodder if the DM simply runs them against the party in a conga line.

    I never run Kobolds or Goblins that way. Kobolds are by far the sneakier of the two.

    Without going into the exact details (it was many years ago) I had a party enter a dungeon with a Kobold colony in it. Day one, they had light contact, killed a couple of Kobolds and left for the night. Bad Move.

    They came back to find the place a killing ground. The Kobolds had worked through the night to set up traps, lanes of fire and they broke out the stocks of poisoned arrows. Gee, why is the floor wet and slick? Might be the barrel of lamp oil the Kobolds spread all over the floor and other such fun thing. Why are they throwing a torch?

    Yes, they managed to kill a few more Kobolds, but were driven out of the dungeon when they ran out of neutralize poison and started to have to carry party members.

    The next day they opened the doors to find the entry hall filled with rubble. They gave it up. Good thing too. The Kobolds had spent the night dragging a mummy up to the entrance, and filling it in there. Dig through the rubble and you get to meet Mummy.

    The Kobolds lost 10 warriors. Against a party of five, But they saved their women and children which is what they were out to do. Five where killed in that first encounter with the PCs got the drop on a Hunting Party on their way out.

    The second big Kobold encounter was a mutual standoff. The PCs could not move the Kobolds and the Kobolds could not move the PCs. That one the PCs did eventually get the upper hand when they found both ends of the Kobold cave and smoked them out. As the Kobolds came staggering out they faced a killing ground and an ultimatum to move or die. They had their women and kids with them, they surrendered. At that few Kobolds were killed, they were forced to move. The only reason the PCs won is they used Kobold tactics against the Kobolds. They also had the aid of Goblin labor to move the cords of greenwood required for the fire. Goblins don't like Koblods and were quire willing to aid in getting rid of them.

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    But my friend killed some of us with Kobolds!

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpyatt View Post
    In 3.5e I have killed more kobolds in my sleep as a wizard than there are grains of sand in my back yard. They're fodder.

    (See, that's how you start a new thread and not derail someone else's thread.)

    When my friend Michael was DM he gave them levels and skills. I hated those barbarisn kobolds.

    i hated his kobolds from level one when they had none of that stuff. He based a whole series of our levels, character level 1 to 4 around those bleeding things!

    And we never ate one because they are not fodder...they are sly evil creatures with mad plots and diabolical schemes to mate with extraplanar powers and breed a new race of super kobolds. They scare me.
    Peace "We are that which we repeatedly do. Excellence is not an act but a habit. Our intents are manifest in our words, our actions, our songs, and our play. May we all know peace."


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    it's all in the hands of the dm. dm can make them fodder or ferocious, depending on how they are played. my players tend towards fear and respect for kobolds.

    =D
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    Quote Originally Posted by nijineko View Post
    it's all in the hands of the dm. dm can make them fodder or ferocious, depending on how they are played. my players tend towards fear and respect for kobolds.

    =D
    you're right, it all comes down to the dm, period. now, i will say that 4e may help inexperienced and new dms be more effective, but if your dm hasn't had "it" since, say, 2nd ed, well, he isnt going to suddenly have an epiphany because the combat system has changed...
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    I've never used kobolds in any adventures I've run - I typically prefer goblinoids - but I would treat them much like goblins. How is that, you ask? Read the posts above, there's some great examples of how the little guys learned to deal with the big ones always picking on them.

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    All the 4th edition MM do is to PRECREATE some leveled kobolds, something DM's used to do on their own. YES, it is a time saver, I will give it that, but NO it did not suddenly make kobolds any stronger than before, and anyone who had delt with my Dragon Adept/Shamon Kobolds will tell you.

    (yes, House rule, Kobolds consider either of the Dragon Shamon or Dragon Adept classes as a favored class, but only 1 of them)

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    I would imagine a group of Kobolds if run correctly would use similar tactics as the Goblins in LoR, except that with the Kobolds, there would be all kinds of traps and concealed tunnels/ambush areas that would allow them to harrass the PCs without exposing themselves to retaliation.

    I had the PCs that were running through one of my adventures so upset with a group of Kobolds that they retreated from the keep the Kobolds were in habiting and proceeded to burn the place down.
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