New DM

[Shadow Dweller]

Yup

[mrken]

Hey, congrats on a successful game. You know how I know? Cause it went all night without a complaint.

[agoraderek]

Yup

cool, sounds like they used the extra little of bit of a boost you gave them to good effect! i prefer a somewhat "low power, nitty gritty" type game when i dm, but i do like a "let it all hang out" epic type game when i play on occasion, and it sounds like y'all had a great time!

good job

[Annshadow]

Granted, there were supposed to win...but I never expected them to make a damn catipult out of the wreckage of a destroyed house, one of the guys actually had Craft Carpentery and got assisted from a few of the towns carpenters to build the damn thing, and he rolled 19 & 20 on his crafting checks with max ranks in the craft skill...ah well, what could I do?!

Anyway, think it went over ok...we lost track of time and managed to not end the game till about 7AM this morning after starting at about 8PM the night before...

Can you imagine how much LESS fun it would have been if you had said "None of you have knowledge: engineering so you cannot build a catapult"


That is pretty much how my game went ...

See my post "How do you figure damage for a dead thing to see why I am quiting my group.

I need a DM that would allow me to build a catapult.

[Valdar]

Sadly, my experience has been that the perfect game for anyone is the one they can't play in because they're running it.

Railroading is boring for everyone involved, but players do need to take the responsibility to play along with the plot to some degree- I've run games that the PCs refuse to be dug out of the tavern, and then complain that the game is dull. I can't wing a complete game (well, it will supposedly be easier in 4.0 with simpler monsters), so anything I pull out of my hat won't be as good as something I've spent some time on. Not to say that I get to tell the party what they can and can't do, but there's no point to having the players act as randomly as possible so they can see how tough they can make it to run the game for them.

And for starting with 36 pt buy and max hp? What will happen is you'll just double the length of combats, and make scarce resources (healing, magic missiles) half as effective since they're going up against twice the HP totals. I've run games like this to try to keep the party from dying, but what happens is the skilled players usually carry the combats, and almost never get hurt, and tactics become optional. I played briefly in one game that the PCs were so overpowered they had to fight an entire dungeon at once to keep things interesting.

[Shadow Dweller]

Valdar, while it's true that combat tends to be longer...sometimes the setup we use is a good thing. That boss minotaur I talked about in the campaign hit for a 105 damage on a critical to knock the MoMF down to a -1HP. If we had been using "normal" rules(Roll, half+1+con, or 3/4) it would have strait out killed him, requireing Rez, in one hit.

Yes, it makes the PC's a lot harder to deal with for me, but the Mobs get an equal boost, especailly when I build them out, so it does ballance out.

[tesral]

Railroading is boring for everyone involved, but players do need to take the responsibility to play along with the plot to some degree.

There is playing along and then there is waiting to have your ticket punched. From what I have heard this falls into the latter.

The DM would not allow the PCs to use any creativity or skills to mitigate the conditions the plot called for. She lacked the basic imagination to adapt, if it wasn't in the module it wasn't going to happen.

I would have walked at the T-Rex head. If people cannot hold up five minutes, then hell why am I playing? There wasn't a bomb about to go off. Taking T-Rex heads wasn't in the module. Therefore could not be done.

Zero fun, get her a toy train.

I've run games like this to try to keep the party from dying, but what happens is the skilled players usually carry the combats, and almost never get hurt, and tactics become optional. I played briefly in one game that the PCs were so overpowered they had to fight an entire dungeon at once to keep things interesting.

Power is not the issue, and I can make anything interesting, combat is not the sole source of interest in the game. If it is, then you are playing the wrong game. Might I suggest console gaming, lots of combat and you're never over powered.

I am totally sympathetic to Annshadow here. If his account is accurate the DM needs to stop doing it, yesterday.

I am a DM and a player. I understand, and understand well, both sides of the table and the fact that they must work with each other. A module is an idea, a framework -- not a plan. or a script.

I can see what is happening here. She is afraid that if she doesn't follow the script the pirate attack will be a bust. Listen sister. The pirate attack is totally in your control. Nothing, absolutely nothing prevents you from adjusting the number and strength of the attack to met the preparations. If Capitan Morgan can put together a fleet and 1200 pirates to raid Panama so can I.

This is shoddy gamesmanship, inexcusable.

[amardolem]

Can you imagine how much LESS fun it would have been if you had said "None of you have knowledge: engineering so you cannot build a catapult"


That is pretty much how my game went ...

See my post "How do you figure damage for a dead thing to see why I am quiting my group.

I need a DM that would allow me to build a catapult.

That is sad indeed, I'm going to run that ap soon! I've read it meticulously in preparation, and I didn't see anywhere that said you couldn't find creative solutions...I'd love that...that would spark some crazy gaming! (sorry to jack) that smacks of total DM ineptitude. (and breaks the "rule of yes" ;D)

[Malruhn]

That T-rex head thing would have had me screaming at the DM and walking out.

Was there a plot point involving time? Then why the hell did it matter how long it took?

Were I the DM and you asked, if there was a time crunch (bad guys are reassembling and attacking in XX minutes), then I'd care, if not, I'd just announce, "Okay, you got the head... whatcha gonna do with it?" If I was really into role-playing, I might add, "Surprisingly, it takes longer than you expected due to the tough sinews and bones. Now you know why they are the kings of dinosaurs!" and that's it.

Gimme a break. Glad you're walking.

Hey, Shadow Dweller, good on you for the game. You ran it well - though I would have asked who had skill in engineering to be able to build the siege engine (this had direct impact on the game - not just cutting off a stupid dino-head!). You had a plan, got blind-sided by the players and ended up playing all darned night... good on you!! W00T!

[Shadow Dweller]

Well, by the time they were asking about the catipult it was nearly 5:30-6AM and none of us could think of what craft skill it would be to make a catipult, so I went with carpentery. Granted, the thing had a total -6 to attack due to quick construction and the fact they used a house that got blown up by a dragon's lightning breath fo rquick material...and somehow the roll still came out to a 26! What can I say, the roller normally is one of our luckier rollers...

[tesral]

Well, by the time they were asking about the catipult it was nearly 5:30-6AM and none of us could think of what craft skill it would be to make a catipult, so I went with carpentery. Granted, the thing had a total -6 to attack due to quick construction and the fact they used a house that got blown up by a dragon's lightning breath fo rquick material...and somehow the roll still came out to a 26! What can I say, the roller normally is one of our luckier rollers...

However it was a good call. Carpentry is what I would have used. On the technical side a catapult is much the same as building a timber framed house. The same joinery is used. It sounds like your first game went gangbusters. Good work and good luck with keeping it that way.

[Kilrex]

Well, by the time they were asking about the catipult it was nearly 5:30-6AM and none of us could think of what craft skill it would be to make a catipult, so I went with carpentery. Granted, the thing had a total -6 to attack due to quick construction and the fact they used a house that got blown up by a dragon's lightning breath fo rquick material...and somehow the roll still came out to a 26! What can I say, the roller normally is one of our luckier rollers...

Craft: Siege Engines

Can't remember which 3e book, but has a list of all siege weapons and the DCs for each. I had a 2e book with it, but gave it away when I switched to 3e.

If a player had Carpentry, I would set the DC pretty high. I made a catapult for a project in physics that could hurl a 10 lb rock about 100 yds and had alot of difficulties breaking the stopping arm. A trebuchet was much easier to make. So I did that instead.

[Valdar]

Power is not the issue, and I can make anything interesting, combat is not the sole source of interest in the game. If it is, then you are playing the wrong game. Might I suggest console gaming, lots of combat and you're never over powered.

"Combat is a source of interest" is not the same thing as "Combat is the sole source of interest". If power balance doesn't concern you, you are playing the wrong game. Might I suggest freeform, lots of RP and you're never worrying about rules.

A little snarky there, but "go play console games if you like combat in your RPG" is a little harsh I think. Particularly when your view in the past has been:

I left a group that preferred combat over role-playing. I prefer role-playing to combat and I run a game that way. It doesn't make their style of play wrong, just wrong for me.

[tesral]

"Combat is a source of interest" is not the same thing as "Combat is the sole source of interest". If power balance doesn't concern you, you are playing the wrong game. Might I suggest freeform, lots of RP and you're never worrying about rules.

A little snarky there, but "go play console games if you like combat in your RPG" is a little harsh I think. Particularly when your view in the past has been:

I played briefly in one game that the PCs were so overpowered they had to fight an entire dungeon at once to keep things interesting.

Well your comment was very to the point that combat is the interest. "They had to fight an entire dungeon at once to keep things interesting." How is that suppose to be taken? It rather suggests that combat is the only point of interest. If you mean something else, say something else.

How about a Solomon's conundrum? Puzzles that power cannot over come, or even (woh) matching the opponents to the power of the characters?

I don't care how epic the characters, I can find a challenge the equal of their skills. It will not be the challenge they think they are getting either.