Paizo is not going to support 4th Edition

**MysticalForest** · 03-19-2008, 12:25 AM

Thoughts? Reactions?

**gdmcbride** · 03-19-2008, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by MysticalForest

Thoughts? Reactions?

The header isn't exactly true. Paizo will support 4th edition through their Necromancer Games imprint/partnership. You can read the whole thing here:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

Still, the move is quite surprising to me and very brave. We shall see if it pays off. This announcement will doubtless have quite an effect on the game industry for at least the next year. What sort of effect ... that is more difficult to see.

As a Paizo 'Superscriber' (i.e. I'm subscribed to all their game related product lines) I plan to keep up my subscription regardless of edition. I enjoy their writing, their production values, their consistent innovation. I have no problem converting systems.

Who knows ... since I'm going to almost certainly end up owning both 4th edition and the Pathfinder RPG maybe between them I can house rule some amazing hybrid.

I'll get my first real hands on taste of D&D 4 at Gamestorm. By then, I should have read and fully digested the Alpha release of Pathfinder. Then, I may have more to say about this.

Always in motion the future is.

Gary

**amardolem** · 03-19-2008, 06:50 AM

As a big fan of the creativity behind Dragon and Dungeon (it's what got me back into this hobby after many years) I have to say I'm excited, plus for the people that own countless 3.5 books it means a greater level of support for their investment, should they want to get more mileage out of it. Plus I like Golarion. A very cursory scan of the rules set (I hate reading long pdf's) shows improvements in many areas including the much maligned grapple. The backward compatability aspect allows you to take and leave what you wish, so how can that be bad?

**RealmsDM** · 03-20-2008, 08:15 PM

VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY interesting....

I for one welcome this... at the very least, it will help me get a few more years outta my 3.5 books

**cplmac** · 03-20-2008, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by RealmsDM

VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY interesting....

I for one welcome this... at the very least, it will help me get a few more years outta my 3.5 books

I seem to recall one of our wizened posters saying that just because a new edition comes out does not mean that the previous edition becomes no longer usable.

**gdmcbride** · 03-20-2008, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by cplmac

I seem to recall one of our wizened posters saying that just because a new edition comes out does not mean that the previous edition becomes no longer usable.

Exactly true. If you love 3.5, keep playing it. It will be years before any of the books are hard to find. Hell, if they're like 1st edition, it may be decades.

And remember, Pathfinder won't just be 3.5 reprinted. It will be an update addressing of many of the perceived problems of 3.5 (just not as radical as 4th edition and with an eye to backwards compatibility).

For example, just from my barest skimming of the Alpha release .pdf, rogues will have d8 hit points.

While certainly not a major change, it is definitely a change.

Gary

**Maelstrom** · 03-21-2008, 04:26 AM

This is good news. I wasn't aware of Pathfinder prior to reading this thread.

I'm going 4e myself, but I hate to see so much disenfranchisement in the RPG community for those that don't like it or don't want to give up what they have.

With a publisher (even though a small one compared to WoTC) supporting those that don't want to make the switch, the D&D community can continue with everyone having supported options to choose from. And honestly, competition for the player base of D&D will be good for both paths. It'll drive prices down and keep them both producing high quality material.

**gdmcbride** · 03-21-2008, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Maelstrom

This is good news. I wasn't aware of Pathfinder prior to reading this thread.

...

It'll drive prices down and keep them both producing high quality material.

I really can't recommend Pathfinder enough to anyone who enjoys D&D. Even if it is 3.5 or Pathfinder or whatever ... it is full of great ideas, beautiful art, compelling storylines and some of the most consistent writing I've ever seen from a monthly RPG product.

I find myself anxiously waiting for my Pathfinder to arrive in the mail every month. It's been a long a time since a product line has done that for me.

Honestly, I much prefer these releases to standard WOTC fare. Paizo does not use the delve format (of which I am no fan) and while not being X-rated (or anything close) does not shy away from more adult themes and more complex plots. I am glad to see them compete with WOTC's domination of the market.

But as far as driving prices down for 4th. Ummm... I wouldn't count on it. WOTC has already set their prices for all 2008 and early 2009 products. I doubt anything Paizo can do will change those. If anything Paizo has pretty consistently matched WOTCs prices since that's obviously 'what the market will bear.'

Gary

**rabkala** · 03-21-2008, 11:45 PM

Yeah, Paizo D&D 3.75 edition! Time shall tell how much they tinker with things and how well they fair in the future. I am sure many will love this alternative.

My groups are all set to go 4e, so it doesn't exactly thrill me.

**tesral** · 03-22-2008, 01:49 AM

Some of us are just tired of them revamping the entire game every five to six years. About the time you get used to the new set of rules they announce a change of rules, again.

I've seen too many announced changes in 4e that are just changes, they improve nothing. Making halfings taller, are they 5/8th-lings now? As much as 3/4-lings maybe? Dropoping Gnomes, adding Teiflings as a core race, but not the other planer touched. How are these "improvments"?

AISI they should not be revamping the rules all over new yet again. They should be refining the system that is to make a better game. Working on the existing balance and existing rules set to make it better.

They are creating a Microsoft problem for themselves. Older versions of D&D will be the main competition for the new game. What they once called the best D&D ever they now must deride as not good enough anymore.

As it is they are changing so much they are bound to create as many problems as they might fix. Get ready for 4.5 in a year or five and save your pennies for that 5e that changes everything down the road.

It's an endless treadmill, of buy, buy, buy. I am off the treadmill, thank you.

**nijineko** · 03-23-2008, 12:39 AM

but think of all the exercise you'll be missing out on!

i'm not fond of spending a whole bunch more again myself. and i probably won't. i'll just mooch off of others, as usual. ^^

**gdmcbride** · 03-23-2008, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by tesral

Some of us are just tired of them revamping the entire game every five to six years. About the time you get used to the new set of rules they announce a change of rules, again.

I've seen too many announced changes in 4e that are just changes, they improve nothing. Making halfings taller, are they 5/8th-lings now? As much as 3/4-lings maybe? Dropoping Gnomes, adding Teiflings as a core race, but not the other planer touched. How are these "improvments"?

AISI they should not be revamping the rules all over new yet again. They should be refining the system that is to make a better game. Working on the existing balance and existing rules set to make it better.

They are creating a Microsoft problem for themselves. Older versions of D&D will be the main competition for the new game. What they once called the best D&D ever they now must deride as not good enough anymore.

As it is they are changing so much they are bound to create as many problems as they might fix. Get ready for 4.5 in a year or five and save your pennies for that 5e that changes everything down the road.

It's an endless treadmill, of buy, buy, buy. I am off the treadmill, thank you.

Look, we get it. You hate WOTC. If all you have to add to a conversation is 'I hate WOTC' could you please just assume we already know that.

You are off the treadmill. Great. I presume that means you buy no new gaming books. Good for you. I think you have missed several great books released in recent years, books that have changed my mind about what RPGs are capable of, but really so what?

I like buying RPGs and seeing how innovative game designers are pushing the hobby forward. I like reading adventures that have exciting, innovative plots that I might never have thought up on my own.

You don't.

Yay, the world is big enough for both of us. What has this got do with Paizo's future publishing plans?

Gary

**gdmcbride** · 03-23-2008, 04:24 AM

So ... to get back on topic. Paizo has announced plans for an organized play campaign to support their upcoming Pathfinder RPG.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety

They have hired Nick Logue (previously a well known D&D freelancer) to lead this effort. It kicks off at Gencon this year using 3.5 rules and will transition over to Pathfinder next year with its release.

They have announced four scenarios to start the line. The summaries look interesting.

It would appear that Paizo is not only planning to compete with WOTC but also with the RPGA. This could be cool. I will try to get into a Pathfinder session at Gencon and report back on how its going.

I'll say this ... they are really going all out on this effort. Clearly, Paizo is not kidding about this Pathfinder push. They have really staked the farm on this.

I continue to have one nagging point of concern about all this: 3.5 has much that annoys the crap out of me. Is it possible to create a version of 3.x that is both (mostly) backward compatible, easy to prep and plays well? Paizo promises big things ... but is it possible?

I remain skeptical.

Gary

**nijineko** · 03-23-2008, 07:50 AM

not to mention that since they revoked the dungeon and dragon license, it'll occur to some wiseacre to suggest that they revoke the ogl, ending the days of 3.5 support without a paid license. i certainly hope not, however.

**RealmsDM** · 03-23-2008, 11:06 AM

I think the idea of Pathfinder is great. IMO, 3.5 was a fine, workable system. It had its problems, but so did every other system, and so will 4e. Now both camps of gamers will be happy. Some ofus can move on, and some can stay in 3.5 for as long as we can.

I always liked Paizo- everything about them. I was really upset with WotC for pulling the plug on Dragon/Dungeon magazine, and I now see why- to gear up for the 4e platform, and honestly, the content of both magazine was just as good, if not better, than what WotC was putting out.

I read through the Pathfinder rule set, and I gotta say, it looks pretty good. They didn't change too much, and what they did change was totally based on what gamers have griped about over the years. Players see the game differently from game designers. Game designers read into things too much all to often, and as a result we have rule changes & system overhauls far too often. We went through 2 system changes & countless updates & erratta in just over 7yrs. I honestly can't see how WotC employees can tell us that marketing & pressure from the parent company Hasbro hasn't influence creating a new money making idea.