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Thread: Why do you like not having to use a Thaco roll?

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    Why do you like not having to use a Thaco roll?

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    Several of you have told me that with 3.5 not having to deal with the Thaco roll, that it makes the game better. How do you know if you have hit your intended target? What did you like the least about dealing with Thaco's? Finally, when 4e comes out, is there something you would like to see change from 3.5 or is it fine just the way it is (by not having to deal with a Thaco)? In your answers, please keep in mind that my background is with 2e, Thanks.

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    Positive armor class. All armor classes in 3.x are postive numbers. Equal or exceed the AC you hit.
    Last edited by tesral; 02-16-2008 at 10:16 PM.

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    2e THaco required a couple extra caluclations with how you'd have to subtract the opponent AC. The more modifiers to attack rolls you had, the odder the caluclations became.

    3.5e attack rolls require none of that... there is one target number to hit, the opponent's AC. You roll your d20 and add your +attack to see if you hit that target number. Easy to stack multiple modifiers.

    4e is taking it a step further by having all attacks, magical and otherwise, having a single attack roll against a target number (saving throws by the target are reduced in number and complexity). Of all the 4e changes I've heard about so far, this is one of my favorite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tesral View Post
    Positive armor class. All armor classes in 3.x are postive numbers. Eqaul or exceed the AC you hit.

    I never thought that the negative numbers were that difficult. Guess it just depends on how much of a math background you have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cplmac View Post
    I never thought that the negative numbers were that difficult. Guess it just depends on how much of a math background you have.
    It hung a lot of people up, and frankly was an unnecessary step. The forward to AD&D mentions they considered going positive with AC, they should have then. Thac0 was just and extra layer of complication that isn't really needed. Now you only need calculate your bonuses to hit.

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    I don't think it was the math that screwed people up as much as AD&D you had roll over and roll under depending on the test.
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    i know that i've understood how thac0 worked, yet i still have the feeling that i don't get it, depsite that knowledge.
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    Another question then?

    Another question to add to the first ones. In 2e, -10 was the best armor class and 10 was the worst. Am I correct in thinking that in 3.x 1 is the worst armor class and 20 is the best?

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    In 3.5 D&D, it is assume that you're not going to roll for your AC so you have a base AC of 10 plus armor and Dex modifier. So, assuming you are not rolling your AC vs. every hit, then the worst possible AC is 10.

    However, it is valid to roll your AC vs. hit, if you wished. In this case, then you would roll 1d20 + armor bonus + Dex modifier. If using this option, then it is possible to have a 1 AC vs. a specific hit.

    The standard, or default, is not to roll your AC vs. every hit so the base AC is 10.

    Examples: warrior with leather armor (+2 AC), buckler (+1 AC), and 14 Dex (+2 modifier).

    1. Default method- his AC is 15 (base +10, Dex +2, shield +1, armor +2)

    2. Rolled AC method- his AC would vary vs. each hit in combat, and his roll would be: 1d20+5 (Dex +2, shield +1, armor +2)

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    Anybody actually use the "roll for AC" optional rule? Sounds way too cumbersome, and bad luck would drive you to tears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cplmac View Post
    Another question to add to the first ones. In 2e, -10 was the best armor class and 10 was the worst. Am I correct in thinking that in 3.x 1 is the worst armor class and 20 is the best?
    I didn't find thac0 that difficult, but there really isn't a need for the complexity. While I am now college educated with experience in calculus(etc.), many players start/started quite young with little math background.

    There is no cap to the numbers in 3.x D&D. It is possible to have a worse AC than 10 and much higher than 20. A monster my group fought the other day, had a final AC of 7 due to a negative dexterity modifier and a negative modifier due to his gargantuan size. One of the characters in that group has an AC of 28 normally and 32 when buffed with a psionic power. Some gods have ACs in the 60's.

    3.x is a very different beast than 2e in many aspects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabkala View Post
    I didn't find thac0 that difficult, but there really isn't a need for the complexity. While I am now college educated with experience in calculus(etc.), many players start/started quite young with little math background.
    Well, I personally have trouble doing arithmetic in my head, although addition is easiest. Plus, any calculation during the game slows it down even a little, and I'd argue table lookups have the same problem; multiply that by number of attacks per round and number of rounds, and combats can crawl.

    Comparing two numbers, on the other hand, is pretty fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmitchell View Post
    Well, I personally have trouble doing arithmetic in my head, although addition is easiest. Plus, any calculation during the game slows it down even a little, and I'd argue table lookups have the same problem; multiply that by number of attacks per round and number of rounds, and combats can crawl.

    Comparing two numbers, on the other hand, is pretty fast.
    Very true. Streamlining and speeding combat are a definite bonus. While combat can be fun in itself for many, getting to the good parts quickly is important. Number crunching and ridiculous charts/tables should be left to tax accountants who like that sort of thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabkala View Post
    Very true. Streamlining and speeding combat are a definite bonus. While combat can be fun in itself for many, getting to the good parts quickly is important. Number crunching and ridiculous charts/tables should be left to tax accountants who like that sort of thing.
    It's one less thing to worry about and that is good. I'll take BAB over thac0 any day.

    I also prefer the high is always good approch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabkala View Post
    Very true. Streamlining and speeding combat are a definite bonus. While combat can be fun in itself for many, getting to the good parts quickly is important. Number crunching and ridiculous charts/tables should be left to tax accountants who like that sort of thing.

    Fair enough, although I guess that I haven't mentioned that I have an accounting degree. Oh, guess I did.

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