Dungeons & Dragons Movie Discussion

[Tony Misfeldt]

I started this discussion on a couple of other gaming websites and the opinions and such were quite interesting. I figured, as this is an international site, the opinions and such might be a little more diverse. Again, I think it's a fun and interesting discission. So what are your thoughts on the D&D movies? What changes would you have made if it were up to you to write them? What D&D novels would you like to see turned into movies? The first two D&D movies were meant to be the first two thirds of a trilogy. How do you think the third movie should be written? All opinions and points of view are valid, so don't be shy and let it all hang out.

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS: THE MOVIE

Personally, like many people I know, I think the first D&D movie sucked! There was just so much that was wrong with that movie it's hard to know where to begin. However, I own a copy of it on DVD (it's D&D and it was on sale) so I've seen it with both the feature length comentaries as well as all the deleted and extended or incompleted scenes. And I'd have to say that if they were ever to re-edit the film, completing and adding in several of the lost scenes, and rerelease it on DVD as an "Extended Edition Director's Cut", it would be almost watchable. These are the changes that have to be made...

1) One of my biggest problems with this movie was that they never gave the dwarf a name. The entire movie he was called either "him" or "the dwarf". Turns out that he actually does have a name, they just left it on the proverbial "cutting room floor" due to "time constraints". The characters name was Elwood Gutworthy. There was a scene in the sewers just after the four main characters escaped Damodar and The Crimson Brigade where he introduces himself. As this would be an extended cut, time constraints wouldn't be an issue and the scene should deffinately be edited back in.

2) There was supposed to be a running gag in the fight scenes in the bar and the Thieves Guild where Elwood's helmet would get knocked off and he would go berserk and kick some serious butt. These scenes were also cut out due to time constraints, but I think putting them back in would make those fight scenes more entertaining. Again, this is an extended director's cut, so time constraints are meaningless.

3) There was an unfinished scene of Marena and Riddley inside the magic scroll. This scene was cut due to budget, and the director thought that the important information gets relayed to Snailz later in the film and therefore didn't need to be repeated by the wraith. But there was a part of the scene where Marena and Riddley were arguing where Riddley tells her of his fathers unfair treatment at the hands of the Mages Council, thus revealing the root of his hatred of the mages and also shattering the foundations of Marena's entire belief system. All in all, a very emotional scene which deserved to be in the finished film.

4) There was a scene just after Snailz was killed, where Norda is consoling Marena. She says something along the lines of "You grieve for Riddley. I grieve too, for his kind hearted friend. But all is not lost. If we can make it to The Elven Forrest in time, he may yet be saved." The scene was cut due to time constraints, but deserves to be put into the extended cut.

5) There was an unfinished scene during the battle between the gold dragons and Profion and his supporters from the Mages Council that was cut due to budget. E. Gary Gygax was playing one of the mages. I would finish the scene and edit it back in for that reason alone.

6) The ending with Riddley and the others at Snailz's grave was actually shot a year after the movie was finished. Originally the ending had Riddley in the graveyard alone, and after a tearful goodbye walking off to his knighting cerimony. The producers felt it was too serious an ending and ordered a new "happier" ending be shot. I saw the original ending and I have to say I much prefer the original to the rewrite.

DUNGEONS & DRAGONS II: WRATH OF THE DRAGON GOD

I put off watching this movie for a very long time. When I finally broke down and bought a copy (it was part of the same sale as the first one) I was very surprised. I liked it! I really, really liked it! It wasn't perfect by any means. There was certainly room for improvement. But the writing was infinately superior to the first movie, and the actors took their rolls very seriously (reading Players Handbooks, Monsters Manuals, and DMGs between shoots, etc). There were a few minor changes I would have made to the characters, casting, wardrobe, script, etc. But on the whole I thought they did an excellent job! Here are the changes I would have made...

BEREK THE FIGHTER: First thing about Berek is I would have made him a paladin rather than just a plain fighter. There are three reasons for this. One, it opens up the party to more racial diversity (there are too many damn humans in this movie). Two, it opens up the party to more class diversity (someone else could be the plain fighter). And three, it opens up the party to more magic items (I would have given Berek The Paladin a Holy Avenger and given the Vorpal Sword to Lux). I also would have given Berek the same surname as Riddley's in the first movie (I think it was Freemantle), thus indicating to the observant viewer that he is a desendant of Riddley's (and presumably also Marena's). As for casting, while the actor who played Berek did an admirable job, I would have cast Cary Elwes (Saw, The Princess Bride, Robin Hood: Men In Tights). He's a fine actor and a skilled swordsman.

LUX THE BARBARIAN: Of all the characters, Lux is the one I have the most problems with. First there's her wardrobe, it's too civilized. I didn't even realize she was supposed to be a barbarian until Berek's wife said the line "The barbarian is certainly beautiful." When dressing a barbarian for a fantasy adventure film like D&D, less is more (especially when the barbarian in question is female). I would have put her in a fur bikini, mukluks (Boots Of The North), a sword belt, an ornate set of (enchanted) bracers (Bracers Of Defence), and a fur cloak (possibly of Winter Wolf hide or a Cloak Of Protection). As for the actress who portrayed Lux, she didn't seem to have the look of a fantasy barbarian. She's beautiful, and may be athletic in a cheerleader sort of way. But even in proper attire she wouldn't be very intimidating or barbaric. I would have cast former WWE Diva and two time Playboy covergirl Joanie Laurer (aka "The Ninth Wonder Of The World" Chyna) in the role. Or if you want someone just as buff but less well known, former Miss Olympia Corinna Everson (she played Atalanta on Hercules: The Legendary Journies). Or if you want someone more conventionally beautiful, Victoria Pratt, who played an amazon on a couple of episodes of Xena: Warrior Princess and played Sarge in the (blessedly) short lived TV series Cleopatra 2525.

ORMALINE THE ELVEN MAGE: The actress who played Ormaline did a fantastic job and the character was very well written. The only change I would make to this character is to recast her with an A List actress. I would choose either Kristen Kruek (Smallville) or Lexa Doig (Andromeda). They both have a very exotic beauty which makes them perfect to playing elves. Liv Tyler (The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy) would also be a good choice.

DORIAN THE CLERIC: Dorian was very well written, and the actor who portrayed him did a fine job. He was played with strength, intelligence, wisdom, and compassion, exactly as a cleric of a goodly god should be. But if I were to recast the role with a known actor, I would have to go with Liam Neeson. He exhibited all those same qualities when he played Qui-Gon Jin in Star Wars Episode I: The Franchise Menace, as well as when he played Aslan in The Chronicles Of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe.

NIM THE ROGUE: Nim is another character that would require an entire rewrite. Not because he was poorly written or cast. Again, I really liked the writing and think all the actors did a fantastic job. But there were too damn many humans in this movie! Therefore I would have written Nim as a halfling (a little cliche, I know, but apropriate). The actor who played Nim might be short, but he's not small enough to play a halfling. Thus I would have cast Warwick Davis in the role (Willow, Star Wars Episode I & VI, Harry Potter I - IV, Leprichaun I - V). He's well known, he loves the genre, he's a fine actor, and unlike most people born with dwarfism he has long fingers. If he's unavailable, I'd have cast Vern "Mini-Me" Troyer (the Austin Powers movies and TV's Jack Of All Trades). He's probably more well known among the younger movie goers, but I haven't seen him in anything other than comedies so I don't know how seriously he'd take the role. My other two picks for the role of Nim would have required an even larger rewrite, turning he into a she (and maybe giving her a more feminine sounding name, like Nymara or something). My first female pick for the role of the halfling rogue is Debbie Lee Carrington, who many of you might remember as Thumbelina, the blonde midget hooker in the Schwarzenegger flick Total Recall. My second choice is former adult film star, Bridget "The Midget" Powerz. Last I heard she gave up doing porn to front a punk rock band, but she might have said yes to a ligitimate acting gig. After casting a little person in the role of the halfling rogue, all they'd have to do is get the WETA Workshop to fit them with some hobbit feet.

ELWOOD GUTWORTHY THE DWARVEN FIGHTER: See, I told you making Berek a paladin would open up the party to more classes and races. I would have written Elwood back into the story both to add more races to the party other than human, as well as for tactical purposes. As he was part of the original party that defeated him 100 years earlier, he has insight into Damodar's tactics and abilities. Besides, he's one of the only members of the original party who don't consider a single century that long of an amount of time, since dwarves live for about 400 years. As for casting, I would have to go with Lee Arenberg, who played Elwood in the original. Not only is he familiar with the character, but it helps with film continuity. If Lee is unable to take the role, then I'd go with the Bret Beatty who was the scale double for John Rhyse Davies during the Lord Of The Rings Trilogy. He's 4'9", has a blackbelt in karate, is a classically trained actor, and a licenced stuntman. Or if they can't get him, maybe Hornswoggle from WWE Monday Night RAW. He's also the right size and a capable athlete.

NORDA THE ELVEN RANGER: Another example of how making Berek a paladin rather than a fighter opens up the party to more classes and races. Norda would be enlisted for the same reasons as Elwood, her personal knowledge of Damodar and his tactics. Plus, as an elf she also is the only member of the original party who lives for several centuries. The role of Norda should have been given to Kristen Wilson, who played Norda in the first movie, for continuity sake. If she were unable to take the role, then I'd suggest iether Lexa Doig, Kristen Kruek, or Liv Tyler (whichever one didn't take the role of Ormaline).

Those are all the changes I would have made to the casting of the sequel. Here are the changes I would have made to the script itself...

LUX'S BERSERKER RAGE: I've never made any attempt to hide my dislike of the new 3rd Edition rule that all anyone needs to go berserk is a set of wolfskin underwear and a horned helmet, and I stand by my opinion on that. That's not what this is about though. Wrath Of The Dragon God was written using the 3rd Edition core rule books as its template, I understand and accept that. However, regardless of whether you're using 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Edition as your reference material, there is a world of difference between using a berserker's rage in game and translating that onto the screen. In the game you simply tell your DM that you're going berserk and then make the necessary adjustments on your character sheet. On film, it has to be more dramatic. I didn't even know Lux was supposed to be in the midst of a berserker rage until Ormaline had to knock her on her ass with a lightning bolt and shout "Barbarian! Get a hold of yourself!" Here are the changes I would have made to that scene...

1) When the brigands are running down the hill and Lux is waiting to meet them, she should have been taking deep breaths, snarling, growling, foaming at the mouth (an effect easily achieved by putting a couple of Alka Seltzer tablets in your mouth and letting the frothing saliva drip down you face).

2) She should have been performing feats of superhuman strength during the battle. Launching men 6 feet in the air with a kick to the googlies (that's Joss Whedon speak for a kick to the groin), picking a man up by the throat one handed and throwing him 10 feet into a group of his comrades, etc.

3) Some of the bandits attacks should have gotten through her defences only to bounce off the protective shield provided by her Bracers Of Defence.

4) Some of the bandits attacks should have gotten through her defences causing what should be a crippling wound, which she totally ignores. A bandit shatters her shoulder with a solid hit with a morning star. Another bandit drives his spear into her hip. Another bandit stabs her in the gut with a short sword. She ignores them all and just cuts down the offending brigands.

5) Once safely inside Malek's Vault, Lux collapses due to her exhaustion and the numerous wounds she had suffered. Berek has to use all of his paladin healing powers to heal her wounds so she can continue.

THE FINDING OF THE VORPAL SWORD: This scene was never shot due to budgetting problems. Originally, after the party had passed the room with the Dark Mantels they entered a long hallway (if you look closely you'll see the sword he fights off the Dark Mantels with and the one he smashes through the wall with are completely different). The floor at the far end of the hallway starts to rise like a drawbridge while the rest of the floor starts to retract to dump the occupants into a spiked pit. Each member of the party takes a running leap across the widening pit. Berek went last, almost falling into the pit. As he was dangling by the drawbridge he saw a skeleton with a Vorpal Sword lying in the pit, and at the last possible second he reached into the pit and retrieved the sword. That's how it was written. Instead of cutting the scene completely, I would have rewritten it in a more cost effective way. Here's how I would have written it...

1) As I said above, I would have given the Vorpal Sword to Lux. Rather than have her find it in The Vault, I would have given it to the Bandit Leader. When he sees how powerful Lux is, he drinks a Potion Of Super Heroism, a Potion Of Strength, and a Potion Of Speed (essentially giving him the benefits of a berserker's rage). He then draws his Vorpal Sword and charges down the hill to attack. He and Lux have a brief but fast and furious duel (somewhat akin to Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker's duel in Revenge Of The S#!t, but not as long). The bandit leader cuts right through Lux's sword while parrying one of her attacks. He has her dead to rights, but before he can strike the final blow Ormaline nails him with a lightning bolt. The potions he imbibed earlier allow him to shrug off the worst of the effects, leaving him stunned (it's more like being shot with a tazer than being struck by lightning). Lux wrenches the Vorpal Sword from his grasp and cuts him in two, literally. Lux then cuts down more brigands until Ormaline knocks her on her ass and shouts "Barbarian, get ahold of yourself!"

2) Before the room with the Dark Mantels, I would have put a guard room which is littered with the skeletal remains of a score of goblins and one human in plate armour with a goblin sword in his chest. While Nim and Elwood search the bodies for anything valuable, Berek, Norda, and the others deduce what happened here. Apparently, a paladin had made it to the guard room and engaged the goblin guards in battle. He slew most of them, but the last one got in a lucky shot. With his last breath the paladin slew the last goblin. Unfortunately he didn't have strength enought to heal his wound before he died. This was shortly before Malek teleported himself into the wall and died, so no other goblin guards were able to replace the ones who died or loot the bodies. Berek finds that the paladin's sword was a Holy Avenger and trades with him, saying a prayer to the fallen hero's spirit to let him know that the sword is being used by a fellow paladin in the name of good.

THE BANDIT ATTACK: I said it before and I'll say it again, there were way too many damn humans in this movie. I would have made the bandits orcs, or drow, or hobgoblins, or grimlocks. Anything other than humans. I understand that this movie had a much smaller budget than the first one did, and as such probably couldn't afford the prothstetic latex makeup for that many stuntmen and extras. Making them drow would probably have been cheapest, as they'd just need elf ears, white wigs, and a whole lot of black makeup. Then they could just import a bunch of Chinese stuntmen from the Hong Kong film industry (they're smaller and of slighter builds than most American stuntmen).

THE ENERGY SHIELD: I would have killed off Nim the halfling rogue here. Not that I disliked the character or anything, I just think it would have been more dramatic. Everyone gets across the energy shield safely, but Nim (being a 3' tall halfling) can't get across in time and gets fried. Makes the whole thing a little more emotional, a little sadder, a little darker. Like in an actual D&D game, sometimes your character dies.

Well, those are all the changes I would make to the first two films. I'll write up my ideas for the third movie in the D&D Trilogy at a later date. Feel free to critique my ideas, the movies, post your own ides, whatever. The sky's the limit! Have fun with it. Who knows, maybe some Hollywood bigwig likes to log on to this site and we might inspire him to make a better third installation. Hey, it could happen!

[russdm]

I am afraid that I actually liked the first one. I thought it was pretty good. I also happen to love the prequels while almost every SW fan I've chatted with hate them. You have to remember that most people view D&D as some weird psycho thingie more than just a hobby so they have to show people its not as bad as they think. The second is better than the first of course but there is not as much humor, a little tad much seriousness. Jeremy Irons was actually very good as Profion, check him out in other roles in other films, he's good. The script need serious work in my opinion. Both Narda and Elwood wait outside while Rid and Snailz go inside the castle. Narda almost always makes some comment about how they (elwood and her; everybody but Ridley) are supposed to do something or enter. Terrible! Cut the lines and scenes! We don't need to see that! There were better scenes they could have kept.

[Mulsiphix]

There is little to discuss as far as I'm concerned. Both movies are in my personal collection and I've watched each several times. I know they got ho-hum reviews but I thoroghly enjoyed them. The dragon from the second one is one of the best CGI dragons I've ever seen. The only other truly breathtaking dragons were from Reign Of Fire.

[MortonStromgal]

I really didn't like the first one and I only slightly disliked the second one.

[Drohem]

I didn't like the first one because of the representation of dwarves. Dwarves are my favorite fantasy race, and they are almost universally portrayed in a comedic manner. Gimli in LotR was done well, but sometimes it came too close to comedic relief for my tastes.

The second was better in my view for several reasons:

1. Jeremy Irons as the BBEG.
2. The Greyhawk flavor really was portrayed well.
3. Magic and spells were portrayed well; as well as nicely done in CGI.
4. The CGI dragon kicked ass!

[upidstay]

The second one was ok. The FIRST one???

It sucked. It sucked on a totally new level. I was completely unaware that any film could suck like that. The fine folks at Websters had to completely redefine the words suck, garbage, and awful. On a scale of 1 to 10, with a 10 meaning "it sucked" and a 1 meaning "Let's find the director and writer and beat them to death with that cheesy prop they used for a scepter", I'd have to give it a 0.

Maybe if the lovely Miss Birch took off her top it would have at least had that...

Did that get my point across? I know that I sometimes sugar coat my words and fail to say what I truly mean.

[Mulsiphix]

Did that get my point across? I know that I sometimes sugar coat my words and fail to say what I truly mean.

Actually I'm quite unclear on what your saying here. Will you quit beating around the bush and let us know what you think of the movie already? Jeesh

[upidstay]

:d:d:d:d:d

[cplmac]

I have the first on DVD, and thought that is was OK. Yes, it would be nice if they would include all the deleted scenes, but we have no say in that matter, when they are making the movie. Have not seen the second one so I can't give a reply on it.

What I find funny is that anyone can critisize someone else's work. Especially when they don't do that particular type of work themselves. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their oppinion as to whether or not they like something. It's just that for someone to say that a particular author don't know how to write, when they are not an author themself, I usually don't finish reading what they a saying.

[Tony Misfeldt]

I am afraid that I actually liked the first one. I thought it was pretty good. I also happen to love the prequels while almost every SW fan I've chatted with hate them. You have to remember that most people view D&D as some weird psycho thingie more than just a hobby so they have to show people its not as bad as they think. The second is better than the first of course but there is not as much humor, a little tad much seriousness. Jeremy Irons was actually very good as Profion, check him out in other roles in other films, he's good. The script need serious work in my opinion. Both Narda and Elwood wait outside while Rid and Snailz go inside the castle. Narda almost always makes some comment about how they (elwood and her; everybody but Ridley) are supposed to do something or enter. Terrible! Cut the lines and scenes! We don't need to see that! There were better scenes they could have kept.

I've met a few people who liked the first D&D. I've even met a few people who actually liked the Star Wars prequels. Of course, I've also met people who think X-Pac and 1-2-3 Kid are brothers (they're the same guy), or who think Chyna is a transvestite (she's not), or who think nothing in wrestling is staged (it is).They walk among us.

The fact that there's not as much humour in the second D&D movie is a good thing. One of my problems with the first one was that there was too much humour in it. It was like Conan The Barbarian and Conan The Destroyer, but with the roles reversed (Conan The Barbarian was the better film because it was darker and more serious, then they screwed up the second one by making Conan The Destroyer a lighter, PG Rated, action comedy).

I agree that Jeremy Irons is an excellent actor. That's why it pains me to see him take a role so lightly. None of the actors in the first movie showed the kind of professionalism and respect of the base materials that those in the second movie showed. That's what sets the two of then apart. I also agree that Narda and Elwood needed more to do than stand around and watch Riddley and Snailz do everything. But the movie's already out there, so whatcha gonna do?

The second one was ok. The FIRST one???

It sucked. It sucked on a totally new level. I was completely unaware that any film could suck like that. The fine folks at Websters had to completely redefine the words suck, garbage, and awful. On a scale of 1 to 10, with a 10 meaning "it sucked" and a 1 meaning "Let's find the director and writer and beat them to death with that cheesy prop they used for a scepter", I'd have to give it a 0.

Maybe if the lovely Miss Birch took off her top it would have at least had that...

Did that get my point across? I know that I sometimes sugar coat my words and fail to say what I truly mean.

You're being way too kind. A 0? I'd give it a -10! Though I'd have to agree with you about Thora Birch. She was also the only actor in the cast who didn't play her character for laughs.

The sequel would have been so much better than it was if they had the same size budget that the first one had. It was still a better movie on the strength of the acting and writing alone.

I didn't like the first one because of the representation of dwarves. Dwarves are my favorite fantasy race, and they are almost universally portrayed in a comedic manner. Gimli in LotR was done well, but sometimes it came too close to comedic relief for my tastes.

The second was better in my view for several reasons:

1. Jeremy Irons as the BBEG.
2. The Greyhawk flavor really was portrayed well.
3. Magic and spells were portrayed well; as well as nicely done in CGI.
4. The CGI dragon kicked ass!

1) I agree with you about the way they portrayed dwarves in the first movie. Gimli in LOTR was played pretty much as written in the novel, so I have fewer complaints about that. But I would have to say that making Elwood more like Gimli would have been a vast improvement.
2) I don't know what you mean by "BBEG" so I can't agree or disagree with you on the Jeremy Irons issue.
3) I don't play in Greyhawk, so I'll have to take your word for it.
4) I totally agree on the point of the magic and spells! They were very well done, not just with the CGI but also with the writing and acting!
5) Here I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. The CGI dragons were far better written (in the first movie they were little more than scaly, fire breathing, winged horses), as in this one they can actually talk. Well, the white dragon didn't say anything, but they usually aren't in a very talkative mood anyway. But visually, the dragons in the first movie were far more realistic. But as far as I'm concerned, the dragons in Dragonheart are the ultimate. That is how dragons are supposed to look (and gold dragons are supposed to act).

I have the first on DVD, and thought that is was OK. Yes, it would be nice if they would include all the deleted scenes, but we have no say in that matter, when they are making the movie.

I understand needing to delete certain scenes due to time constraints. Peter Jackson had to cut each installment of the LOTR Trilogy by nearly an hour because of them. However, He rereleased them on DVD in an extended edition. I'm just suggesting that the producers of the first D&D movie go back and do the same thing with their film. It doesn't have to be rereleased in theatres like the original Star Wars trilogy was (although that would be nice), but rereleasing it on DVD would be a shrewd business move.

[Mulsiphix]

Tony in the future could you try to combine some of your posts? Double posting is quite common but five in a row is a bit excessive. This is a personal opinion of me as a forum user, not a request of a moderator. As far as I know there is no rule against it. Just a personal peeve :P

I understand needing to delete certain scenes due to time constraints. Peter Jackson had to cut each installment of the LOTR Trilogy by nearly an hour because of them. However, He rereleased them on DVD in an extended edition. I'm just suggesting that the producers of the first D&D movie go back and do the same thing with their film. It doesn't have to be rereleased in theatres like the original Star Wars trilogy was (although that would be nice), but rereleasing it on DVD would be a shrewd business move.

The original movie wasn't well accepted. It would be a complete loss of money for them. Seriously bleak.

[Drohem]

2) I don't know what you mean by "BBEG" so I can't agree or disagree with you on the Jeremy Irons issue.

Big Bad Evil Guy

[upidstay]

"What I find funny is that anyone can critisize someone else's work. Especially when they don't do that particular type of work themselves. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their oppinion as to whether or not they like something. It's just that for someone to say that a particular author don't know how to write, when they are not an author themself, I usually don't finish reading what they a saying"



Ummm, actually I can call myself an "author". Been published, all that.

I don't mind a little cheese in my movies. In fact i enjoy a bad sci-fi or fantasy flick. It just ticks me off when they drop $50 million on a movie and waste it all on one cool scene with flying dragons. The scene in the crypt, with the skeleton talking, was sooooooo bad, and the sceptre looked like some newbie LARPer made it in their garage.

[Tony Misfeldt]

Tony in the future could you try to combine some of your posts? Double posting is quite common but five in a row is a bit excessive. This is a personal opinion of me as a forum user, not a request of a moderator. As far as I know there is no rule against it. Just a personal peeve :P

As I don't have a computer of my own, my time is limited by how long the VPL allows me to use their computers. Thus I use what for me is the quickest and easiest way to respond to posts. Plus I haven't figured out how to respond to multiple posts by multiple members in one responce yet. But I'll take your advice under consideration.

The original movie wasn't well accepted. It would be a complete loss of money for them. Seriously bleak.

Highlander 2: The Quickening wasn't well accepted by the public iether, but they still rereleased it on DVD as Highlander 2: The Renegade Version, which was marginally better (but still crap). I think that they probably made enough money from the entire D&D Movie franchise that they could afford to rerelease an extended director's cut of the first one. And I believe that there are enough of us D&D geeks out there who would go out out and buy it that it would in fact turn a fair profit.

What I find funny is that anyone can critisize someone else's work. Especially when they don't do that particular type of work themselves. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their oppinion as to whether or not they like something. It's just that for someone to say that a particular author don't know how to write, when they are not an author themself, I usually don't finish reading what they a saying.

I agree with you to a certain extent. I mean, who the hell are Ebert & Roper to tell me whether or not a movie is any good? What film school did they graduate from? How many Oscars or Golden Globes have they won for film making? But, while not all of us are Hollywood script writers doesn't necessarily mean we don't know good writing when we see it. We've all played D&D. We've all written back stories for our characters. We've all DMed games and written adventures for other players. We all know what works well in a D&D game and what doesn't. Writing a movie script isn't so different than writing an adventure, and directing a film isn't so different than DMing a game. I could eat a Monsters Manual and a DMG and crap out a better story than what was used as the script for the first movie. I'm not just writing that as a D&D player and DM, I'm writing that as a published author, a struggling script writer, a pro wrestler, and any other apliccable description you can name.

By the way, I've finished writing my review of the movies in my original post. You guys might want to go back and take another look to see what changes I've made. Then there'll be something new to talk about.

[Anaesthesia]

I don't have any thing to add about the 2 movies discussed here (it would be redundant to what others have said)

BUT I wanted an opinion on another D&D movie: Dragonlance The Movie (aka Dragons of Autumn Twilight). Apparently the DVD was released on January 15 08. here's the official site:http://www.dragonlance-movie.com

Anyone see it yet?