More info?

[Freejack]

So, which section would Shadowrun be discussed? Horror/Dark Future or Sci-Fi/Futuristic?

The Sci-Fi seems more appropriate but I've seen Shadowrun mentioned in threads in the Horror forum.

At the moment, I wouldn't expand the forums but maybe add a few of the more popular games to the forum descriptions so it's a bit more obvious. Especially for the games like Shadowrun where 1-3rd are more gritty and 4th seems to be a little more futuristic or Paranoia which has three styles of play; Zap, Classic or Straight.

Carl

[Mulsiphix]

I consider Shadowrun to fit into the cyberpunk category. Cyberpunk is considered a Sci-Fi genre as far as I know. I don't think anything in Shadowrun would qualify for the Horror section. It hardly fits in with universes like Call of Cthulhu, World of Darkness, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, etc....

[Farcaster]

Shadowrun and Cyberpunk both fit nicely in Dark Future with their Goth-Punk feel.

[Mulsiphix]

Bah I forgot it was Horror/Dark Future. Even so most Dark Future is Sci-Fi themed though isn't it? Blade Runner the movie was true Dark Future. While it falls into the category of Cyberpunk it was a poor example of it.

[Freejack]

See, see, now you understand

Shadowrun and cyberpunk in general fits well into "Dark Future". Moreso than Sci-Fi although 4th edition seems to be a lot lighter. I want to move the team into the more "cyberpunk" grittier feel but we're in the process of getting the rules down first.

Carl

[Mulsiphix]

We're you a fan of Blade Runner Freejack? You being the Shadowrun junkie that you are, I'd like to know what a true cyberpunk fan thinks of that film. It was highly recommended to me over the years and I finally sat down and watched it a few nights ago. I was thoroughly disappointed the entire time.

[Freejack]

At the time I really liked it. Max Headroom (blipverts) was a show I liked as well (and Freejack ). Those were some of the reasons I started reading William Gibson's books. Being a computer junkie first, I really liked those views of the future (from a fiction standpoint anyway ). Shadowrun was the first cyberpunk game I'd heard of and I picked it up.

As I said in the other thread, I would like to get my Shadowrun game a little grittier, much like those old shows/movies.

But it's been a while since I've watched Blade Runner though. All the Director's Cuts, final versions, etc have really turned me off of the idea of buying the movie. I expect I'll get it one of these days; maybe rent it.

Basic answer, I liked it way back then. I'll rent it and see how it looks now with all the changes.

Carl

[tesral]

See, see, now you understand

Shadowrun and cyberpunk in general fits well into "Dark Future". Moreso than Sci-Fi although 4th edition seems to be a lot lighter. I want to move the team into the more "cyberpunk" grittier feel but we're in the process of getting the rules down first.

Carl

I would call Shadowrun a subselt of the Cyberpunk genre. It's Cyberpunk with magic. Pure Cyberpunk is fairly close to hard SF, with a highly dystopian feel.

As to how gritty a world is that is truly up to the GM. System has a small part to play, but the look and feel of a world is set by the Game Master.

[Freejack]

I would call Shadowrun a subselt of the Cyberpunk genre. It's Cyberpunk with magic. Pure Cyberpunk is fairly close to hard SF, with a highly dystopian feel.

Yep I agree. It's the "dystopian" part of general cyberpunk (be it Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, or whatever) that would have lean it towards "Dark Future" vs "Sci Fi".

As to how gritty a world is that is truly up to the GM. System has a small part to play, but the look and feel of a world is set by the Game Master.

True but the rules, cutscenes, and examples in the core and supplements also tend to set the overall tone. Yea you can make it grittier but it requires some adjustment if the books don't come across that way.

For example I'm running the Missions scenarios from the website. So far none of them (and we're on the 4th one right now) have any sort of gritty feel to them.

1. Carry a package from one end of town to another.
2. Retrieve a kidnapped executive.
3. Kidnap a child.
4. Vandalize a factory.

Yes, I can again tone it down to make it gritty but as I said, we're getting up on the rules and getting ready to head off to my arc. I'm hoping my changes will make it a little grittier. We'll see

Carl

[Mulsiphix]

Gritty is a world thrown around very lightly with Cyberpunk but I've never actually seen it defined. What exactly do you guys interpret gritty to be? For me it means darkness, depressing atmospheres, society suffers emotionally but nobody talks about it. Themes like drug usage, overpopulation, pollution, and crime fit perfectly into such settings. So in essence I think gritty means muted societal oppression of the masses by megalomaniacal entities, of which organizations are the most common.

[Mulsiphix]

LOL I just looked up dystopian and see that I knew the definition after all (red in above post). Pfft so if what I described as gritty isn't really the definition of gritty, what is?

[Freejack]

In general yea, I agree. I'd want to merge in some Sin City elements for example.

If you're a member of a corp, you're golden. As long as you're a good little sheep. Once you get outside that bubble, you're exposed to the seedier side of town, pollution, drugs, riots, and lots of "me first, you last" mentality.

Mr. Johnson is only hiring your team because the job is too dirty to expose his (or her) employees to. There is mistrust, betrayal, and every man for himself so you have to look out for yourself.

Get at least a third up front and expect flak from the Johnson about getting the balance.

Carl

[MortonStromgal]

I would say Sci-Fi because Shadowrun has some level of silly to it. Cyberpunk is hmmm well I would put that in Sci-Fi to because of the Hard Sci-fi feel but SLA Industries is the real tough one to decide on. Obsidian and Dark Conspiracy would go in Dark Future

My 1/50th of a dollar

[Mulsiphix]

Define what you mean by gritty guys. There was talk about it earlier but if dystopian describes Cyberpunk, how do you make a Cyberpunk setting more "gritty"?

[tesral]

Define what you mean by gritty guys. There was talk about it earlier but if dystopian describes Cyberpunk, how do you make a Cyberpunk setting more "gritty"?

A rougher style and atmosphere if you will. It isn't the game system that makes something gritty it is the GM. How do you describe your world.

If the PC have an easy time, it's not gritty. If they struggle for every little thing, it's gritty. If you get graphic in you description of the squalor of an area, that is grit.

Is death easy? Can it be corrected? No resurrection is gritter than being able to "fix" character death, by magic or science.

It's ambiance, not system for the most part.