The TPK: Players Perspective

**Mulsiphix** · 01-01-2008, 03:36 PM

For you DM's who have had to ask a player or demanded a player leave the group, does that ever go over well? Do they just get up and leave peacefully or is it a scene out of a daytime soap opera?

**Digital Arcanist** · 01-01-2008, 09:24 PM

The player in question was a bully and a big child. He called us names and spread lies about us. Fortunately for us, the player had no credibility and as far as I know he is a persona non grata in the gaming community here.

**Skunkape** · 01-02-2008, 06:16 AM

I've had players leave the group in a big stink, they weren't kicked out, just got mad and left all pissy. I've also been in groups where we've kicked players as a group decision. We don't ever take that kind of decision lightly, and try to work out our differences before the big kick, but they usually go pretty well.

But so far, we haven't had too much trouble with kicking someone out of the group, it's just those who get mad and leave the group that we've had trouble with!

**Mulsiphix** · 01-02-2008, 09:59 AM

Skunkape: under what conditions have people gotten mad and left? PC death or they just didn't like the way the story was going or?

**rabkala** · 01-02-2008, 08:03 PM

I only once had to physically remove a player. He was as irritating as they come. When I told him he was no longer wanted, he seemed fine. He then started asking the rest of the players what they thought. One by one they all told him they were sick of his B.S., even his friend who he had initially brought to the game. Then the whining and complaining started. After a few minutes, I told him it would be best for him to just leave. My friend Dave then warned him, "You better not Make him angry!" Sure enough, he snatched up his character sheet and ripped a page of my pristine Fiend Folio. The blood rage took me then...

We once had a player leave with his pants around his feet as we snapped him with wet towels. For some reason he did start getting rather angry. He couldn't get enough and returned the next day, and played for years after that. That was more hazing than asking to leave, good times...

**Mulsiphix** · 01-03-2008, 12:59 AM

My books are like my children. Two years after owning one, if it doesn't look as good the day I brought it home then I've done it wrong. I would have gone ape #*$& if somebody ripped one of my books. Must remind myself to have a dog before I start hosting local games. If somebody gets out of hand I can always pull the old "nutcracker" routine from the movie K9

**Skunkape** · 01-03-2008, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mulsiphix

Skunkape: under what conditions have people gotten mad and left? PC death or they just didn't like the way the story was going or?

Both actually!

That's not to say that I'm an adversarial DM, trust me, I run the game for both my players and myself to have fun, you just can't please everyone all of the time, so if someone gets so mad they don't want to play, sorry, but I'd rather have them leave than have me make them leave.

I have had and continue to have players complain about how I handle something, but mostly, the complaints have always been unfounded in my opinion. For instance, I might get a complaint like, hey, he shouldn't be able to do that, that's not following his alignment. I've told my players again and again, I really don't like the DnD alignment system, so although you've selected alignment 'A', that won't penalize you as much as not following your god's dogma.

I've tried to give the players enough information on the available gods so that they'll know what will be allowed and what won't. So that's what I'm more interested in than a particular alignment, plus, I found a website where someone compared the Paladium alignment system to the DnD one, and the Paladium alignment system I think is a little better explained, so I follow that one a lot more closely that the straight DnD one.

**Mulsiphix** · 01-03-2008, 11:41 AM

Any chance you have a link to the comparison between the Paladium and D&D alignment systems? Sounds like very good reading.

**Skunkape** · 01-03-2008, 02:19 PM

I don't know where the original link is at, but I took what was written and posted it on my site.

DnD/Paladium Alignments

I really need to take a moment to find the link and post it on that page, but I do referrence the authors of the system.

**Malruhn** · 01-03-2008, 03:57 PM

I've been on both sides of TPK's... and hated both sides equally.

It sucks when a party wants to do a good deed, but just makes stupid decisions and the poop hits the fan.

I like realism in my games. If an adventuring party walks into town and guts the bartender, then guts the guy at the smithy, then guts an acolyte at the local temple, the officials are going to be quite ticked off by all the deaths. Is it really a surprise when there is a price on your head, and a cup of ale costs 150gp... if you get served at all?

And if you KNOW there are shadows in a chamber, doesn't it just seem prudent to use some buffs prior to blinking down to engage them?? (I hated jumping in on that one... my pride took a bigger beating than my character!)

**Mulsiphix** · 01-03-2008, 05:06 PM

After reading a great deal of the threads posted to this board in the last couple of months I can't help but feel extremely wary of who I game with. I'm wondering if I should do interviews before I get into any adventure too big. I can't stand the thought of playing a mystery scenario or adventure full of puzzles and riddles with people who never pay attention to what you've said. Many stories posted seem like the players are generally mindless, thoughtless, or completely selfish. I couldn't imagine being in the middle of a massive campaign and constantly feeling like I wanted to ring the neck of a player or two that just didn't care much about the game. I would think anybody coming to a game would be excited about the experience and really put their heart into it. However, from what I've read in the last couple of months, it would seem that a great deal of people just show up to play and put very little heart for effort into making the experience enjoyable for anybody but themselves. This I find quite disheartening.

**upidstay** · 01-03-2008, 06:37 PM

I've never TPK'd in almost 30 years. Don't believe in it, takes the fun away from the game. If players are being stupid I'll just turn their arms into snakes, polymorph them into chickens, teleport them naked somewhere. Stupidity rarely lasts more than one gaming session.

I have played with killer DM's, rarely more than once. One guy ran a party of 4 1st level, one 2nd level, and one 5th level characters against and 11th level sorcerer and his flesh golem servant. We never had a chance. I lasted all of 5 minutes. Took a lightning bolt square in the chest. At first level. Really fair. We all got up and went to a party members' house and played a real game.

**upidstay** · 01-03-2008, 06:47 PM

One add on to my other post

As a DM, you have to know your players. Just like a good performer knows his audience. If your players don't like puzzles, don't give them puzzles. If it's a kick-in-the-door-and-charge kinda party, then give them lots of doors to smash and hordes of kobolds to hack.
My friend Jeff loved the Great Cleave feat, so I made sure every adventure had at least one encounter where he could put his enchanted greataxe to good use. My friend John likes a good puzzle, so I give him riddles to solve, tricky traps to disarm, etc. I'm not a big role player, don't really enjoy a huge amount of dialogue in my game. My friend Jim DM's ALOT of dialogue, so I usually pass when he runs a game. I just get bored. And bored players act stupid.

If a player or party comes up with a great plan, plays intelligently, but seems to only be able roll 2's and 3's, I will let them slide a little. Lady Luck can be a real, well, she can be difficult some nights. Basically, don't deliberately set out to smoke PC's. There are other, sometimes worse, things you can do to straighten out a player who is acting like an idiot. I've kicked people off of my game before, always with the blessing of the group.

**Mulsiphix** · 01-03-2008, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by upidstay

If a player or party comes up with a great plan, plays intelligently, but seems to only be able roll 2's and 3's, I will let them slide a little. Lady Luck can be a real, well, she can be difficult some nights. Basically, don't deliberately set out to smoke PC's.

I think most who responded to this thread said they give their players some head room on nights where they're having a bad time with the dice. I think there is a big difference between maintaining a realistic setting and being a rules lawyer. I think a really good DM knows when to fudge rolls and let things slide and when a player needs a sound wake up call. If the DM's first reaction to a player acting out is death, then find a new game to play in. Well I would anyway

**Maelstrom** · 01-04-2008, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Mulsiphix

After reading a great deal of the threads posted to this board in the last couple of months I can't help but feel extremely wary of who I game with.

When it comes down to it, D&D is a social game. In order to have fun it requires work from all people involved.

Combine that with the fact that many players are of the variety that isn't socially adept, it can make for interesting situations. I liked the Shrek 3 reference to the "gamer" type in the High School parody land... "They are busy trying not to fit in."

All that said, there are just as many times where D&D gives you situations you would never find in any other style of game. When somebody tries a crazy stunt to bring a chandelier crashing on the big villian making a dominating speach and succeeds, you and your players will always remember it. Or for that matter, the player fails and falls with the chandelier right in front of the villian.

The point is, that yes sometimes you run into personalities that don't mesh, and you have to be ready to deal with it. Personally I wouldn't directly confront them in front of a group... I'd talk privately with them. Most people want to have fun, and if they know they are out of line and you approach them humbly but firmly, they just might shape up. As a DM, you have to take charge, and you have to do it in a way that people enjoy the experience.

Shoot, now I'm ranting too much, better watch out for that chandelier myself.