Warning: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in ..../includes/class_bbcode.php on line 2958

Warning: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in ..../includes/class_bbcode.php on line 2958

Warning: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in ..../includes/class_bbcode.php on line 2958

Warning: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in ..../includes/class_bbcode.php on line 2958
I will NOT SWITCH !
Recent Chat Activity (Main Lobby)
Join Chat

Loading Chat Log...

Prefer not to see ads? Become a Community Supporter.
Page 1 of 9 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 123

Thread: I will NOT SWITCH !

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Waxahachie
    Age
    50
    Posts
    55
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    I will NOT SWITCH !

    Prefer not to see ads?
    Become a Community Supporter.
    I take this precious moment in time to throw out my 2 cents to the world as to why I will not switch to 4E. Maybe pick up an adventure here or there but will always convert it to 3.5. I may seem to be exercising some bragging rights here, but really don't mean to. I have just been fortunate to have been able to amass my collection. I am only 9 books short of having a COMPLETE 3.5 Ruleset. It's not broken. As a DM I can do, control modify, add, subtract or do whatever I want with settings and rules providing that I am both PLAYING and HAVING FUN. What the heck do I need to invest in another edition for to continue doing that ?

    Books I need to finish collection/set:

    Monster Manual V
    Exemplars of Evil
    Sandstorm
    Frostburn
    Stormwrack
    Races of the Dragon
    Dragon Magic
    Complete Champion
    Elder Evils

    Books I have:

    3.5
    PHB
    DMG
    MM
    MM II
    MM IIV
    MM IV
    Magic Item Comp.
    Complete Warrior
    Dracononmicon
    Complete Adv.
    Races of Destiny
    Lords of Madness
    Weapons of Legacy
    Planar Handbook
    Libris Mortis
    Complete Arcane
    Races of the Wild
    Rules Compendium **NOTE** According to WoTC, this book superceeds and overrules all other CORE BOOKS as far as rules go.
    Heroes of Battle
    DMG II
    Book of Exalted Deeds
    Complete Divine
    Unearthed Arcana
    Arms and Equip. Guide
    Book of Vile Darkness
    Heroes of Horror
    Ghostwalk
    Magic of Incarnum
    Spell Compendium
    Fiend Folio
    Tome of Magic
    Complete Psionic
    PHB II
    Fiendish Codex I
    Fiendish Codex II
    Tome of Battle
    Complete Mage
    Dungeonscape
    Cityscape
    Complete Scoundrel
    DM 4 Dummies
    Races of Stone
    Red Hand of Doom
    Exp. to Castle Ravenloft
    Forgotten Realms Campaign
    Deities and Demogods
    Manual of the Planes
    Expanded Psionics Handbook
    Epic Level Handbook
    Hero Builders Guidebook
    Stronghold Builders Guidebook
    Song and Silence
    D&D 4 Dummies
    Players Kit
    Basic Kit

    On and On and ON. Anyone wanna just play D&D and have fun ? COME ON DOWN. I'm here waiting.

    Happy Holidays

    Xaels


    Post Script: For some books you may see and know to be 3.0, I have all the current errata and updates for each and every book either 3.5 or 3.0 to 3.5 for books like Fiend Folio, Ghostwalk, etc., etc..


    PPS: As of this posting, I also have the complete campaign world of Eberron. I like it. It's new, and fresh, and interesting to me and I can use what I choose from it and trash the rest. Thanks for letting me share.
    Last edited by Xaels Greyshadow; 12-25-2007 at 05:57 PM. Reason: Can't count right in old age.
    Check for traps always. Move silently all the time and know when to run regardless of what the rest of the party is doing.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,048
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I couldn't agree with you more. WOTC is probably going to attempt to do to D&D what it has done with Magic The Gathering for ages. Making players constantly buy new republished and slightly revised material so they can make a buck. There has been so much material released for D&D 3.X that I can't imagine the need to move to 4E. If you count D20 there is literally thousands of books and game systems to choose from. I too may borrow and adventure, supplement, map pack, etc... from 4E but I don't see myself converting. The changes from TSR to WOTC were very well done and most were needed in my opinion (been reading way too much wikipedia lately *hangs head in shame*). The move to 4E seems like an attempt to make as much money as possible in many regards. Why can't they just make one ruleset to rule them all?!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Bothell
    Age
    41
    Posts
    678
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I'm going to wait and see. D&D Experience will be very informative.

    There are definately some aspects of D&D that could use working on, and if they improve the fun of the game it may be worth the jump. From what I've read, they'll nicely take care of the complexity of grappling and the static nature of 3.5 battles (can't move if you don't want to get whacked in the back).

    Of course that comes from someone with not much more than the core books and a few sets of minis... I can understand where others are coming from that are fully vested in 3.5. Fortunately D&D is one game for which any edition can be played ad infinatum if you're okay with continuing to write your own adventures.

    The truth is, Wizards is competing primarily with themselves and older versions of D&D. If they want to continue to grow their business, a fresh start may be the only viable business model, as over time the gleam of a specific edition will eventually wear off and sales will drop. And judging from what I've seen so far, they've put a heckofalot of effort into this, for good or for ill.

    Developer for Darkage Warlord, a Pen & Paper Games exclusive Medieval Wargame.

    If you are in the DC metro area and like to trade D&D minis (1.0 or 2.0), please send me a PM!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa
    Posts
    40
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    This is something many people...

    ...suffer through when it comes to change.

    I'll probably be an early adopter actually for the same reason the O.P. mentioned, I own all the books from 3.x, except Elder Evils and the Rules Compendium (I will have them). I've played and DM'd in every setting, at every level range, and pretty much at every pace.


    I want more. I want the challenge of learning to bend the new rules system to my will, I crave the discovery of all that is broken then displaying it in games to watch the jaws drop/clench; all the while figuring out how to beat the 'unbeatable combo' when I DM.

    That's fun. So is the first month of game sessions when everyone is essentially reading the PHB while role playing in their spare time, at the game sessions! Then the first session where it all finally clicks and you run/play your first entire scenario with no references to the rules.

    The grizzled camaraderie your group develops that is so intimidating and envy inspiring to newcomers that leads them to delve even deeper into the rules than the 'old hands' in hopes of unearthing something that will impress the rest of the group so that they might 'earn their cred', the heroically well intentioned but futile deaths due to rule misinterpretations, the writing of house rules (because the designers were obviously idiots for thinking X...).

    In short, I love it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Green Bay
    Posts
    1,422
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I might be a few books off that mark. I have none of the Eberon but all the FR books. A few of your most recent haves, I do not have and don't think I will. I have the environmental books (Frostburn, Stormwrack, and Sandstorm) and would recommend those. I also would never lower myself to by a book with 'Dummies' in the title.

    Many of the newest books I have bought, I am unhappy with and will not use. Books like Tome of Battle and Magic Incarnum put a bad taste in my mouth after I bought them. Many supplements seemed no longer D&D, but some bad pandering to other interests who would rather be playing some other game.

    I have been doom saying for awhile about the upcoming 4e. I find it hard to believe that I would ever switch. I said that at the end of 2e. I didn't switch for quite awhile as My group was happy playing 2e. Finally though, many players wanted to switch and it was nearly impossible to find new players willing to play 'Old and outdated'. When I finally got into the new edition, I was glad I did switch. Even the upgrade to 3.5 didn't sit well at first, but was a definite improvement. I guess, Never say Never.
    Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,048
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    In the end it probably means little to me personally. The amount of house rules my custom worlds and campaigns will contain will be extensive. I will most likely end up running a hybrid of the 3.X/4E rules. In the end fun is all that matters and the rules should be taken with a grain of salt. I just hate the idea of having to buy all new books for 4E and then possibly having to do it all over again in a few years when they decide to release 5E. I just don't trust WOTC is redesigning the game for the purpose of making it better. Generally they have gone to great lengths in the past to get consumers to buy regularly republished works. I'm an avid MTG player and I've been buying republished cards for close to a decade now *sigh*

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Garland
    Posts
    579
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom View Post
    There are definately some aspects of D&D that could use working on, and if they improve the fun of the game it may be worth the jump. From what I've read, they'll nicely take care of the complexity of grappling and the static nature of 3.5 battles (can't move if you don't want to get whacked in the back).

    The truth is, Wizards is competing primarily with themselves and older versions of D&D. If they want to continue to grow their business, a fresh start may be the only viable business model, as over time the gleam of a specific edition will eventually wear off and sales will drop. And judging from what I've seen so far, they've put a heckofalot of effort into this, for good or for ill.
    Why compare the game against Magic "The Gathering"?, Let's compare against video consoles, if we are lucky the product will turn out to be better, which will be the main reason to switch.

    Personally, I only stick to the Core Books, and Forgotten Realms Books which are not so much rule oriented, I don't buy Players Guide to Faerun or Races of Faerun for example.
    Saluti
    Carlos

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Canton
    Posts
    8
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    For us experienced gamers, we understand that this is a cycle and, honestly, wotc has the best one.

    Every system redoes itself after a few years. Dungeons and dragons has the longest average time between editions, and there are only 5 (i'll count 3.5).

    Compare that to every other system out there. Shadowrun, Cthullu, Vampire, Rift ,etc. These systems are all on their 6th or higher rewrite and withing a shorter span of years.

    What you seem to be complaining about is a business model that has been a staple of the rpg industry for 40 years and works in other game industries as well. Video game systems recycle every 5 years. Popular board games like monopoly come out with an official new edition every 3 to 5 years. I've already mentioned other role playing game systems are far more frequent with their model.

    I've read these rants after 1st edition, after 2nd edition, after 3rd edition and they never get fresher and in two years all of these people are usually playing the system quit the game because they can't find players.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richardson
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,297
    Blog Entries
    33
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dontadow View Post
    Every system redoes itself after a few years. Dungeons and dragons has the longest average time between editions, and there are only 5 (i'll count 3.5).

    Compare that to every other system out there. Shadowrun, Cthullu, Vampire, Rift ,etc. These systems are all on their 6th or higher rewrite and withing a shorter span of years.
    Just to play Devil's Advocate, many systems go through incremental changes from version to version. Call of Cthulhu I know hasn't changed the core rules much over the years; I have 2nd edition and 6th edition, and 6th edition mainly has more "stuff". GURPS has done only one long-delayed overhaul (4th edition) in the 20 years it has been around. The World of Darkness, similarly, has had only one major overhaul. (I don't know about Shadowrun or Rifts.)

    As I recall, moving from AD&D 1e to 2e was a fairly minor jump: proficiencies, a few new or revised classes. 3.x was a major jump, especially since 3.5 came out only a few years after 3.0. And now WotC says that it will be easier to make new characters than to try to convert 3.x to 4e. The pace of change has accelerated since WotC took over.

    Taking my horns off, I agree that the wailing and gnashing of teeth is premature, and it's not like all 3.5 books will disappear in a puff of smoke the moment 4e comes out. But then I never bought into the "gotta buy them all" mentality when WotC started cranking out books with even more classes, feats, and new rules. I don't even own the DMG, since I'm unlikely ever to run a D&D game.
    "On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
    - Charles Babbage (1791 - 1871)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,048
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by dontadow View Post
    Every system redoes itself after a few years. Dungeons and dragons has the longest average time between editions, and there are only 5 (i'll count 3.5).
    There were more than five:
    1. Dungeons & Dragons (1974)
    2. Basic Dungeons & Dragons (1977)
    3. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1977)
    4. Basic Dungeons & Dragons, 1st Revision (1981)
    5. Basic DUngeons & Dragons, 2nd Revision (1983)
    6. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Ed (1989)
    7. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Ed Revised - known as 2.5x (1995)
    8. Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Ed (2000)
    9. Dungeons & Dragons 3.5x Ed (2003)
    10. Dungeons & Dragons 4th Ed (2008)

    Quote Originally Posted by dontadow View Post
    Compare that to every other system out there. Shadowrun, Cthullu, Vampire, Rift ,etc. These systems are all on their 6th or higher rewrite and withing a shorter span of years.
    Wrong again:

    Shadowrun
    1989 - 2007, 4th Edition

    Call Of Cthulhu
    1981 - 2007, 6th Edition (editions 1 - 5 were all approximately 3 years apart)

    Vampire The Masquerade
    1991 - 2004, 2nd Edition (1998, revised edition referred to by fans as 3rd ed)

    Rifts
    1990 - 2007, 1st Edition (2005, Ultimate Edition - not 2nd ed or a revision)

    Quote Originally Posted by dontadow View Post
    What you seem to be complaining about is a business model that has been a staple of the rpg industry for 40 years and works in other game industries as well. Video game systems recycle every 5 years. Popular board games like monopoly come out with an official new edition every 3 to 5 years. I've already mentioned other role playing game systems are far more frequent with their model.
    Video game systems do not upgrade every three to five years. They aren't new editions. They are revised hardware, completely different systems. The only thing that remains the same is the hardware manufacturer. Even that can be disputed as the hardware used is licensed from multiple major hardware manufacturing companies like Intel, AMD, ATI, Nvidia, etc... Monopoly comes out with new themed boards usually more than once a year. These are no different than modules for GURPS or D20. Same ruleset, different theme.

    Quote Originally Posted by dontadow View Post
    I've read these rants after 1st edition, after 2nd edition, after 3rd edition and they never get fresher and in two years all of these people are usually playing the system quit the game because they can't find players.
    This is a serious generalization which once again appears to be opinion over fact. I've met many DM's over the past few months and not a single one was a rules lawyer. Most use their own house rules or swap rules in and out from whatever editions as they see fit. Rarely are DM's rules lawyers and even rarer are DM's that allow their players to be. Most players are just happy to find a DM in their area that has an open spot in a game their running. Those who would refuse to play with a DM based on the rules he is running, most likely have plenty of other options to choose from.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    244
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Is 3.5 perfect? No. But we like it.

    Was 2nd Ed. perfect? No. But we played it.

    Was 1e perfect? Not even close. But we revere it.

    D&D 4e won't be any different, so when WotC tries the whole "we fixed the game" shtick with us, its pure B.S.

    I won't wait & see... I don't need to. I'm happy with 3.5, its detailed enough that you can create wonderful PCs/NPCs, and combat isn't all about suspending disbelief, its good enough for a game.

    Bottom line is WotC needs money; game designers, no matter how pround, don't wanna write themselves outta a steady job (even the freelancers), any there will always be people searching for the fabled "perfect RPG ruleset" & doomed never to find it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,048
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RealmsDM View Post
    Is 3.5 perfect? No. But we like it.

    Was 2nd Ed. perfect? No. But we played it.

    Was 1e perfect? Not even close. But we revere it.

    D&D 4e won't be any different, so when WotC tries the whole "we fixed the game" shtick with us, its pure B.S.

    I won't wait & see... I don't need to. I'm happy with 3.5, its detailed enough that you can create wonderful PCs/NPCs, and combat isn't all about suspending disbelief, its good enough for a game
    Well said! This thread is exactly what I'm talking about when I say WOTC is more interested in money than improving the game. I'm all for new content and even revisions in rules, especially when they are optional revisions. What I can't stand is regular revisions of the core rulebooks. It isn't like those books are cheap or small in size. I hate having to sift through a bunch of "fluff" and "tell me something I don't know" info to find the new stuff.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    244
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I have a feeling that companies like Paizo & Green Ronin will be sticking with 3.5 (and their material is just as good if not better than WotC)

    And to prove our case (somewhat) I heard a rumor that the open gaming license/d20 experiment, will not carry over to 4.0

    bastards!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Age
    37
    Posts
    2,048
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RealmsDM View Post
    I heard a rumor that the open gaming license/d20 experiment, will not carry over to 4.0
    Your joking?! I thought D20 was separate from D&D. Does this mean that publishers will no longer be able to create content for D20 at all? Is D20 effectively dead?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Bellevue
    Posts
    2,915
    Blog Entries
    28
    Downloads
    44
    Uploads
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulsiphix View Post
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Ed Revised - known as 2.5x (1995)
    2.5? Never heard of it. I remember that there was a reprinting of the PHB and DMG, and there may have been some errata fixes in that, but it wasn't a new version. In fact, the editions were completely interchangeable, unlike 3rd vs. 3.5. Mostly, it was just a reprinting with new art.

    Just to make sure my addled brain wasn't misremembering, I grabbed my 1995 printing of the PHB of the shelf. In the forward, it reads,

    "Rest assured that this is still the same version of the AD&D game that your friends, classmates, and business partners have been playing for years.

    Yes, there are some small and subtle changes in the rules, but you would have to read the whole book very carefully, and have a tremendous memory, to find them. (The changes are the sorts of minor corrections and clarifications we make every time we reprint ... " - Steve Winter, February 6, 1995.


    Quote Originally Posted by RealmsDM View Post
    I won't wait & see... I don't need to. I'm happy with 3.5, its detailed enough that you can create wonderful PCs/NPCs, and combat isn't all about suspending disbelief, its good enough for a game.
    I agree that 3.5 is everything I need to run my D&D game, but there are some things that I would like streamlined. For one, I'd like it to be a lot simpler to make NPCs and advance monsters. Right now, it is kind of an involved process to enhance a monster from say 10HD to 25HD, with all of the attribute increases, feats, skills, and size categories. And even when you have a finished product, sometimes the advancement just doesn't work right to make it an appropriate challenge for the party -- at least without some further modifications. If they fix that, they'll have me hook line and sinker.

    What I don't want is for them to make it like a MMPOG, and make class equality paramount in their design. For instance, having everyone in the party being able to heal themselves in some fashion? Or, by swinging his mace and scoring a critical hit, the cleric also heals a friend? It defies credulity. I know, I know. It's a roleplaying game. It doesn't have to be realistic, but I expect my fantasy game to operate within a certain set of established parameters. I suppose I will have to wait and see how they implement some of this, but if they are using some weak logic to bind it together and make it so that everyone can heal themselves... well, then, they've lost me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulsiphix View Post
    Your joking?! I thought D20 was separate from D&D. Does this mean that publishers will no longer be able to create content for D20 at all? Is D20 effectively dead?
    WotC does own the d20 product, this much is true. But, from the last official statement I read, there will be an OGL component of the 4e d20 framework. Unless someone can point you to an official statement that says otherwise, don't believe a word of it.
    Robert A. Howard
    Pen & Paper Games
    Follow us on Facebook and Twitter.

Page 1 of 9 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Hmmmm??? (4th Edition)
    By RealmsDM in forum Dungeons & Dragons
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: 09-04-2007, 10:48 AM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-24-2006, 07:20 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •