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"Trust Your Feelings, Anakin. But Not Anger." - Page 2
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Thread: "Trust Your Feelings, Anakin. But Not Anger."

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farcaster View Post
    I doubt it very much that they would use torture. In the movies, even the Sith didn't seem to employ such techniques as torture to get what they wanted, although they certainly might have benefited from the attempt. Torture just doesn't fall into their paradigm of honorable behavior.

    There is tons of Star Wars novels out there, of which I have read none. So, I am curious, in any of those books, do the Jedi or Sith ever employ torture?
    I too doubt that they would torture, but say if the jedi finds that an ally PC did use some questionable tactics to get information from an prisoner that is a known murderer?

    Also, would they execute prisoners that they know will be a huge liablity during a very fragile infiltration of the enemy? Do clones get treated differently? Or Beasts?

  2. #17
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    I don't think Lucas botched it. Luke and Qui-Gon were right, Yoda was wrong, and Obi-Wan was not a philosopher. What do we see at the end of RotJ? Luke and the old Masters smiling.

    How do we know Yoda was wrong? He tells Anakin that we should not grieve for those who have "joined the Force," but happy for them. Later, same movie, Anakin chops up some kids, and Yoda is very sad. Oops! Bet Yoda felt pretty dumb when that happened.

  3. #18
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    Yeah, I'm starting to think Lucas actually intended the Old Jedi Order to have a fatal flaw, that their fear of the Dark Side made them deny all passions. Give them a student with unquenchable rage and nearly unquenchable (if woodenly expressed) love, and it's a recipe for disaster.

    Also, it seems only masters of the Force actually get to hang around after death, so killing a bunch of apprentices is pretty tragic. Besides, Yoda might be more concerned about the practical consequences of the act: no new students, and a Jedi-killer on the loose.
    "On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
    - Charles Babbage (1791 - 1871)

  4. #19
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    You have to pay explicit attention to the dialog especially in Episodes I - III to get an understanding of how all of this fits together.

    What Lucas does is gives us moments where "important" lines are delivered and that is all the information that the characters in that scene have to make their decisions on.

    This is why Obi Wan's line from Return of the Jedi, "...many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on a certain point of view." rings so true throughout the saga. I would go so far to say it is a major theme in the films.

    Its mimicked by Anakin in Episode III when he is fighting Obi Wan on Mustafar, "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!"

    If you watch the films with this theme in mind you see how every character is devoted to whatever ideas the perceive to be truth and they act accordingly, down to the very words they speak.

    What the Sith do, at least in the movies, is twist that idea. They use word-play to their advantage to manipulate those around them.

    While it seems that Lucas is a poor director and poor writer, if you go back and watch the saga paying close attention to the words the characters say, their expressions, their delivery of the lines, and an understanding that they really believe the words they are saying, then you get an entirely new perspective on the movies and Lucas's skill. Especially with Anakin from Episodes II and III. Hayden does a spectacular job playing the seemingly cold-hearted, stoic Jedi who is in love and is very selfish and over protective of the ones he loves and resentful of those that seem to hinder his growth.
    "I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken. About a great, many things."

    "It is not the rules that make or break a game, it's the GM and the players."


  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GBVenkman View Post
    I too doubt that they would torture, but say if the jedi finds that an ally PC did use some questionable tactics to get information from an prisoner that is a known murderer?
    In this situation all a Jedi could do would be to try and convince the ones doing the torture that it is unethical and they should go about it another way. Any other forceful way, except maybe through a mind trick, and the Jedi skirts enforcing their belief on another and that is of the Dark Side.

    Quote Originally Posted by GBVenkman View Post
    Also, would they execute prisoners that they know will be a huge liablity during a very fragile infiltration of the enemy? Do clones get treated differently? Or Beasts?
    I would say no. Jedi are not supposed to take a life unless absolutely necessary. While in a war I am sure that a Clone Commander would execute their prisoner once they were done with them a Jedi would not. A Jedis sense of idealism to their code prevents them from making those gray area decisions. While a Jedi may admit that their prisoner may be a liability, killing the prisoner out right would at the same time seem out of place.

    This is one aspect that brought the Jedi order down during the Clone Wars. Suddenly the Jedi were being forced into making these sorts of decisions. Most of the Jedi that defected from the order and the Republic did so because they saw Jedi making these sorts of decisions and decided it was not their place to do so. Some of these Jedi remained impartial some of them joined the Separatists.
    "I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken. About a great, many things."

    "It is not the rules that make or break a game, it's the GM and the players."


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