Played some DnD after a long While...

[GBVenkman]

I've returned to gaming recently from playing the D6 stuff as a kid with friends and family.

I have less experience with DnD, but tried some living greyhawk games with some people I've played Saga with.

Is it just me, or is Saga way more entertaining than 3.5 DnD Greyhawk?

(This is coming from a non dnd junkie, so perhaps my view is a bit different from many of you, I'm just curious if I'm the only one that feels this way.)

I welcome DnD 4e if it'll be anything like Saga.

As a new player to each system, Saga is much easier to grasp and is much more direct. Not to mention the fact that you have way more selection in triggers versus the *miss* *cast heal* *attack*.

Well, that, and in DoD you actually feel like a hero..

Grey Hawk is always in a tavern full of 100's of people doing the same thing you do.. And you must pair up with annoying NPC's you're not allowed to kill. (the other night, we paid a druid as a guide who ended up doing nothing but ask for money for heals. In a life and death situation, the last thing any realistic person would do is tolerate such a dusche bag..)

Anyhow, discuss is you wish.

[Mulsiphix]

I haven't had the chance to try SAGA myself but I've seen many rave reviews of SAGA. So much so that I'm actually interested in picking it up as my first Star Wars system. I'm a big fan of the Xbox KOTOR titles and the recently released KOTOR campaign setting has really gotten me excited. Come to think of it I don't know if that item was for SAGA though...

[Inquisitor Tremayne]

As far as I know, and trust me I stay on top of these things, there is not a KotOR campaign setting book released yet. The Force Unleashed is the next book.

And I am one of those who think Saga is great and if 4e D&D is similar it will be great for the game. There is just way too much detail in D&D that bogs down the game and I have never been in a D&D group that has found a way around this.

Anywho, Saga is NOT KotOR. KotOR was loosely based on the Revised version of the d20 game.

The other thing you will need to get out of your head is all the uber things you can do in the KotOR video game. These do not hold over in Saga. There is no using Force Lighting and still be a good guy.

Sorry, I am very much against the KotOR video game being imported over to the RPG. Don't get me wrong I really enjoy the video games, I still play them like crazy. But it is no where close to what the RPG represents.

In the RPG we get closer to the movies as far as playability and the video game is like a power gamers dream. I have strong reservations about the release of this book.

That and I am a big fan of the Tales of the Jedi comic series and the fact that they changed the moniker of TotJ to KotOR bugs me. TotJ felt like an archaic time period in Star Wars history then when KotOR was released and the timeline isn't too far from TotJ it was all shiny and new and felt more like the movies than the old TotJ comics. This bothered me.

Oops sorry for ranting off topic.

[vadersson]

Tremayne,

Let me agree that I also liked the TotJ feel to things. Kotor should have moved down the timeline some. On the otherhand, I do like Kotor too. But I agree that TotJ has a certain wild feel to it.

Back on topic.
I played DnD 3.5 and I like it. It is more what I expect from DnD, which is why RCR for Star Wars did not work out. It was just DnD in space. Now Saga feels more like Star Wars (but I have not played yet.) Personally I hope DnD 4.0 is not too much like Saga because then it will not feel like DnD anymore.

Thanks,
Duncan

[Mulsiphix]

Entire Post

Wow. I had no idea that KOTOR wasn't your standard Star Wars stuff. I love the movies but I LOVED KOTOR. Hearing about the KOTOR supplement was enough to spark my interest in Star Wars but if general Star Wars isn't the force heavy action fest that KOTOR was I don't know if I'll be very happy in that universe

[Inquisitor Tremayne]

Tremayne,

Let me agree that I also liked the TotJ feel to things. Kotor should have moved down the timeline some. On the otherhand, I do like Kotor too. But I agree that TotJ has a certain wild feel to it.

Back on topic.
I played DnD 3.5 and I like it. It is more what I expect from DnD, which is why RCR for Star Wars did not work out. It was just DnD in space. Now Saga feels more like Star Wars (but I have not played yet.) Personally I hope DnD 4.0 is not too much like Saga because then it will not feel like DnD anymore.

Thanks,
Duncan

Agreed!!!!!!!

Wow. I had no idea that KOTOR wasn't your standard Star Wars stuff. I love the movies but I LOVED KOTOR. Hearing about the KOTOR supplement was enough to spark my interest in Star Wars but if general Star Wars isn't the force heavy action fest that KOTOR was I don't know if I'll be very happy in that universe

Which is part of the problem I have with it. I think too many new players are going to come to the game and expect their good Jedi to be able to Force choke and force lightning their way through all the fights and use stim packs to boost abilities and have gauntlets that add to your strength and all of that stuff. At this point it is not in the game. When the supplement comes out I imagine they will put some of that stuff in there. But as it is the RPG doesn't do a good job of representing that video game, and I don't think it should.

And, if they do add these stim packs and other ability boosting items its going to bring to light, why weren't Han, Chewie, Leia, Luke, and all the others in the movies using these things? Its going to throw things outta wack.

Of course I am sure these things will be optional but as a GM if it is in a book made for the RPG we are playing I have a hard time not allowing it.

Plus you can always argue that all of these things are up to the GM. For example I am considering running an all Jedi game set in this era. Now that the Force rules in Saga are actually somewhat balanced as opposed to how they worked in the RCR version.

I think I lost my point in all my ranting, sorry.

[Mulsiphix]

I see your point. The movie is merely an adventure to me though. An epic story from one small part in the time line. Star Wars, as the novels depict it, is what I consider to be the true universe. However I had no idea what the novels depict. All I know is that when I compare 95% of novels to their movie counterparts, even if the movie was the basis for the novel, I usually enjoy the novels universe much more. It is fleshed out more and there is more to take a hold of. Any chance your familiar with the novels? All I know is that there were many

[Inquisitor Tremayne]

Not really familiar with the novels. I do and have kept up with all of the comics though, which some have been adapted from the novels, Splinter of the Minds Eye for example.

I agree with you. It is sometimes easier to read a description and have an understanding of it than to see it merely as background information in a movie.

However, aside from the New Jedi Order series, there isn't much deviation in the way the Force, the light side and the dark side are viewed.

Then came along the KotOR video games (and the last few novels of the New Jedi Order series) and started messing with the perceived notions of the Force. And the new game, the Force Unleashed looks the same way.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for the games I love them, I love anything star wars pretty much, except for the Christmas special, but I just don't like the idea of catering to the video game playing crowd. Which seems to be the market WotC is targeting for some reason. Video games generally do not translate well to an RPG.

Anyway, back to the topic of D&D and Saga. I agree. They play completely different and I am leary that they are going to be able to keep the current feel of D&D with the new rule set. Streamlined rules works for the Sci-fantasy space drama, not so sure it will work for straight fantasy though.

[GBVenkman]

I saw a Knights of the Old Republic book preorder thing on Amazon.com that's coming out within the year I think.

I think the book will have sources about setting and archiac equipment.


Anyhow, I agree with DnD having way too many little rules that bite you in the butt.

Like this situation at the last game:

DM: "Roll fortitude saves for traveling in the snow."
Me: "I have snow googles, resist elements casted (I'm a cleric), and snow gear on... *roll 3*
DM: "ohh, you're snow blind"
Me: "Can I attempt to heal my 'frozen eyes' with a heal check or cure light wounds?"
DM: "no, only remove blindness spell works"
Me: "crap, I'm only lvl one."
So dispite being trained in medicine and the divine, my health specialist cannot treat a minor condition/prevent a minor illness.

3 out of 5 of us were snowblind from the harsh winds blowing ice in our eyes for the next day. (The googles only gave a +2 to fort checks, go figure.)

To me, if there's 60 different skills/spells to treat 60 different minute situations that are under health conditions/illnesses, then it's much less likely that I'll ever actually use the skills I'm trained in during an adventure.


I like things to be more straight forward, like saga's way of grouping many skills into one, like Persuasion. Simple. Roll that, and role play whether you try to intimidate or charm the NPC.

But I'm really interested in how 4e will handle spells. I wonder if it will be like jedi powers where you get them all back at the end of an encounter, or you can take talents to regain more, etc.


As for the Novels.. I was reading through The Revenge of the Sith at boarders the other day, and I must say it was a lot better than the film. Much more blood and guts like a classic Samurai film, and much more of a compelling storyline.

I wouldn't read the expanded adventure stuff, but I think I might read the novel forms of the 6 films..
Ohh, and I'll be watching the new Clone Wars TV series.

[Mulsiphix]

Yeah I just saw the clone wars TV series mentioned in an interview with George Lucas on the new Family Guy DVD that came out Jan 15th 2008. Got me extremely excited to watch it

[vadersson]

Any chance your familiar with the novels? All I know is that there were many

I would say that I have read most of the novels. (Except NJO, can't stand that stuff, but I have read some.)

The Movies and the novels fit pretty well. Generally nothing to outragous in them.

One thing to keep in mind is that Kotor is a lot more like DnD in space than Star Wars. All the equipment with bonuses (helmets, gloves, etc.) are totally DnD type mechanic. Now the weapon modifications are cool, and can be worked in nicely, but the other stuff is really kind of silly from an RPG prospective. But any good video game needs loot...

See ya,
Duncan

[Mulsiphix]

With all the PnP Star Wars adaptations I find it hard to believe that KOTOR wasn't realized on paper before the video game. Makes a lot of sense to me, at least from a target audience perspective. I really wish somebody would put out a PnP version of KOTOR. I would start playing it without giving it a second though

[GBVenkman]

Yeah I just saw the clone wars TV series mentioned in an interview with George Lucas on the new Family Guy DVD that came out Jan 15th 2008. Got me extremely excited to watch it

Have you seen this Trailer for it? CGI. Looks cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4eIc...eature=related

[Mulsiphix]

No I have not. Thanks for the link. Its looks awesome

[Inquisitor Tremayne]

With all the PnP Star Wars adaptations I find it hard to believe that KOTOR wasn't realized on paper before the video game. Makes a lot of sense to me, at least from a target audience perspective. I really wish somebody would put out a PnP version of KOTOR. I would start playing it without giving it a second though

Well there is the sourcebook coming out later this year for KotOR, so there is that. IT utilizes the Saga edition rules.

I have high hopes that it isn't powergamed out the a** like the video game. I can see it going either way and how they handle converting The Force Unleashed game to the RPG will be quite telling.

So far it looks good...