Now am I supposed to whore myself out for strictly game art or shoot for the highbrow stuff?
It's important to know these things.
I don't want to waste my time on Picasso if Erol Otus was all I needed, you know?
I am looking for both players and DMs to join a long term D&D campaign set in The Forgotten Realms. The reason I need both DMs and players is we will be using a Rotating DM System. This means everybody will have a character, including the DM who will play his character as an NPC henchman. That means his character will receive 50% XP for adventur completion, combat, spell casting, thieving skills, etc, but none for role playing, problem solving, etc. When the DM tires of DMing, he switches with one of the players. His character becomes a PC earning full XP and the new DM's character becomes an NPC henchman earning 50% XP. Thus we all maintain the same characters, with the same gaming system and continue playing in the same campaign setting. The following are some other details that you must also keep in mind...
PLAYERS: Players should be Art Whores (aka ROLE players), not Munchkins (aka ROLL players, power gamers, metagamers, etc). The majority of XP handed out will be earned through ROLE playing, thus Art Whores will likely have the most fun. I'm not saying that you won't be allowed to play a blood thirsty barbarian who thinks every problem can be solved with the business end of a battleaxe (Hell, I'll be playing one myself), but I would suggest you play him with some personality. If all he's gonna do is stand quietly by until he can bury his axe in someone's skull, you might as well put a hockey mask on him and call him Jason. Trust me, you'll have a lot more fun if you give your character a personality.
D&D SYSTEM: We will be playing using 2nd Edition with the optional rules introduced in the books Skills & Powers, Combat & Tactics, and Spells & Magic. Not all of the rules will be used, but we will be using Character Points instead of Proficiency Slots, the new rules for Critical Hits, and Magic Points. I refer to this system as D&D Version 2.5.
EXPERIENCE: We will begin play at levels above first. Exactly how much higher than first depends on what class is being played. All characters will start play with exactly enough XP to reach their current level. All single classed warriors, priests, and rogues will start play at 3rd level. All single classed wizards and sorcerers will start play at 4th level. All multiclassed demihumans will start play at 2nd level in each of their respective classes. The majority of XP earned through adventuring will be by adventure completion, role playing, problem solving, and using class abilities (thief skills, spells, etc). I personally will not be giving out the XP values listed in the Monstrous Mannual for slaying monsters (what some players so charmingly refer to as "Kill Points"). If other DMs wish to dispence Kill Points that's their decision, but I would advise against it. It's been my experience that, if given the choice, most players will try to earn Kill Points rather than ROLE play for XP.
CHARACTER POINTS (ChP): Everyone will start with the base number of ChP for his class, plus an additional 5 ChP per level above 1st (10ChP for most classes, 15ChP for wizards, 5ChP for multiclassed demihumans). Additional Chp can be achieved through selecting minor disadvantages. Once the character is in play ChP must be earned. You gain 3 to 5 Chp per level earned (the extra 2 are a reward for good ROLE playing). You can also trade treasure for ChP. This is done only once per level. 1/3 of your treasure equals 1ChP. This includes magic items and equipment bought with found treasure, not just liquid assets.
MAGIC & SPELLS: There are some new rules to inform you of in regards to spell casters. First, the material component rule is strictly adhered to. This means that if your character doesn't have the necessary spell components, or if you don't specifically say that he's using them (including what they are and what he's doing with them), then the spell doesn't work. Second, I use a verbal component rule. This means you must speak the verbal component of any spell your character casts in order for it to take effect. If you didn't say it, you didn't do it. You can use any verbal components you like. Say the name of the spell backwards (ELISSIM CIGAM!), an anagram of the spells name (GESSAC IMLIMI!), borrow from Harry Potter (ADVRA KADAVRE!), or Sesame Street (ABRE PEANUTBUTTER SANDWITCHES!), or just make something up (a ryming couplet is always a popular choice). Whatever you choose remember, if you don't say it, you didn't do it. Third, if the spell has somatic components you must at least describe what those components are (bonus XP and ChP are given to those who actually pantomime the somatic gestures). For example, if your wizard is casting burning hands you might say something like "I put my thumbs together and spread my fingers (physically demonstrating this) and I say 'SDNAH GNINRUB!'" and then roll for damage. The last rule to remember for spell casters is the Magic Point rule. Magic Points are sort of like damage points for armour, they determine how many spells a spell caster can cast. All spell casters, whether they're wizards, clerics, sorcerers, or whatever, get a number of Magic Points equal to his Hit Points (thus a wizard with 14 hp also has 14 mp). Every time a wizard or cleric casts a spell, he uses up some of his magic points. The more powerful the spell cast, the greater the mp cost. The mp cost of any given spell is equal to the level the spell caster has to be to be able to cast it (1mp=1st level, 3mp=2nd level, 5mp=3rd level, etc). As long as the spell caster's number of mp is above 0, there's no ill effects. When his mp drops to 0 or less he begins to feel fatigued. Fatigue has the following effects: the spell caster must successfully roll against his WIS score to be able to cast any spells while fatigued; the spell caster's movement rate, all attack rolls, proficiency checks, and saving throws suffer a -3 penalty; and all attacks against the spell caster recieve a +3 bonus to hit. If his mp drops to -50% or lower, he goes from being fatigued to being exhausted. Exhausted spell casters suffer the following penalties: All ability scores are reduced to 50%; movement rate is reduced to 50%; all proficiency checks, saving throws, and attack rolls suffer a -6 penalty; all attacks against the spell caster gain a +6 bonus; the spell caster must successfully roll against his modified WIS score to successfully cast spells; he must constantly rest while traveling (once every turn/10 minutes) and can move no faster than a slow walk. If the spell caster's mp ever drops to -100% or lower, in addition to all the penalties listed above for exhaustion, for every successfully cast spell he must roll a Saving Throw vs Death. If he fails his save, he dies of exhaustion. Spell casters recover 8 mp per day with a good nights rest. Fatigued or exhausted spell casters must have a full days rest to recover their lost magic points. This means they can't do anything more strenuous than light travel. Any fighting or heavy work negates any rest they may have gotten that day. And one quick note on priest's healing spells: we will be using the 3rd Edition Cure Wounds spells (Cure Light Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, etc). They're more powerful and more numerous, plus they're also lower level and thus more readily available.
RACES: Any of the standard PC races can be chosen. Humans, elves, half-elves, halflings, gnomes and dwarves are all possible. While you cannot customize racial abilities to gain extra ChP, as in the book Skills & Powers, you may use the optional racial abilities listed in The Complete Book Of Dwarves, The Complete Book Of Elves, and The Complete Book Of Gnomes & Halflings. You are also free to choose races from The Complete Book Of Humanoids. However, there must be a good narrative to go with such a character. Character back stories might be recomended for the standard races, but for any of the humanoid races, it's required. Why did your centaur leave his forrest home? Why did your wemic leave his jungle, or your thri-kreen leave his desert oasis? These questions must be answered before such a character will be allowed. And if it's required for a typically good aligned humanoid, it's essential for a typically evil humanoid. Was your kobold adopted and raised by halflings? Did your hobgoblin put on a Helm Of Opposite Alignment? Was your ogre the victim of a wild mage's Wild Magic surge? Did your orc draw a Balance card from a Deck Of Many Things? Was your ogre mage from an alternate reality where orcs and ogres are the heroic types and humans, elves, and dwarves are the villains? Without this information, such PCs will not be allowed. You can even choose a race not included in The Complete Book Of Humanoids, if you like. Alu-fiend mages, dopplganger rogues, verbeeg barbarians are just a few possibilities. But good backstories aren't just essential for these characters, they're critical.
ALIGNMENT: Absolutely no evil PCs allowed, whatsoever! Only good or neutral PCs will even be considered. Chaotic Neutral is an allowable alignment, as long as it's not used as a means to try to sneak an evil PC into the group under the DM's radar. Constantly committing evil acts and then saying "I'm Chaotic Neutral, it was my whim" will quickly earn your character an intensional alignment change. Once that happens, he becomes an NPC and you have to roll up a new character (sort of like when a PC becomes a vampire or some other evil form of undead).
ABILITY SCORES: Stats will be determined by rolling 4d6, rerolling all 1s, dropping the lowest die, and arranging to taste. If you have a specific idea for your character design (a very strong barbarian who's not too bright, for example), you can further customize your stats by trading 2 for 1 (lowering one stat by 2 to raise another by 1). We will be using the 6 basic stats from The Players Handbook (STR; DEX; CON; INT; WIS; and CHA), not the 12 sub-ability scores from Skills & Powers. We will also be using the alternate Comeliness (COM) stat from the 1st Edition's Unearthed Arcana to determine a character's physical beauty. COM is adjusted by race and CHA.
CLASSES: I've adapted some classes from D&D 3.X to 2nd Ed terms for those of you who might be tempted to join but not so sure if you want to leave your precious 3rd Edition rules behind. The classes are essentially the same as in the 2nd Edition Players Handbook, except where described below (there's no customizing classes for extra ChP). The available classes are as follows...
BARBARIAN: The barbarian class is essentially the barbarian fighter from The Complete Barbarian's Handbook. The only difference is he gets the same weapon restrictions as the Barbarian Kit from The Complete Fighter's Handbook. The Beast Rider, Berserker, and Savage Kits from that book are all now considered kits for the barbarian class. Any player who wishes to customize his barbarian may choose one of those kits, or any from The Complete Barbarian's Handbook. The Runecaster Kit from The Viking Campaign Source Guide is also a usable barbarian kit.
BARD: The bard class is exactly the same as it is in The Players Handbook. Any players who wish to customize their bard may do so by choosing a kit from The Complete Bard's Handbook. The only exception to this is the Skald, who gets his own entry here as a seperate PC class.
CLERIC: The cleric class is exactly the same as it is in The PLayer's Handbook. Any players who wish to customize their clerics may do so by choosing a religion specific cleric kit from the book Warriors & Priests Of The Realms. As we're going to be playing almost exclusively in The Forgotten Realms, these kits make more sense than those in The Complete Priest's Handbook. Also, many of the classes listed here will make those kits unnecessary.
CRUSADER: This class is listed in the Forgotten Realms book Faiths & Avatars. It's such a specialized class that there are no kits for it, as such it gets played as described in F&A. Not all faiths have crusaders, so your choice of deity will decide whether or not this is a viable class.
DRUID: The druid class is exactly the same as it is written in The Player's Handbook, with the following exceptions. First, druids may be of any partially neutral, non-evil alignment (as opposed to only true neutral). Second, there are many nature deities in The Forgotten Realms who count druids as thier specialty priests (Chauntea, Sylvanus, Eldath, Shialia, etc) and give their druids special abilities and access to spells different from those listed in The Players Handbook. Thus, you can customize your druid somewhat by your choice of nature deity. And finally, if you wish to further customize your druid, you can choose a kit from The Complete Druid's Handbook.
FIGHTER: The fighter class is exactly the same as it is written in The Player's Handbook. If you wish to customize your fighter, you may choose a fighter kit from The Complete Fighter's Handbook. The only kits not available to this class are the barbarian, beast rider, berserker, and savage.
HOLY CRUSADER: This is the Crusader class listed in Warriors & Priests Of The Realms. After the publication of Faiths & Avatars, it was renamed the holy crusader. Again, this is a very specialized class and therefor has no kits. It is also not available to every faith in The Forgotten Realms. However, it is still a playable PC class and is otherwise unchanged from its published form.
MONK: This is not the monk kit from The Complete Priest's Handbook, nor from Faiths & Avatars, but rather the 3rd Edition PC class rewritten in 2nd Edition terms. As this is such a specialized class, there are no kits for it. Therefor it is played as written.
MYSTIC: This is the class listed in the book Faiths & Avatars. It is a very specialized class, therefor it has no kits and is played as written. At lower levels they're pretty weak, but they do get some cool abilities when they get get up to higher levels (the trick is getting them to live that long).
PALADIN: The paladin class is exactly as written in The Player's Handbook. That means no demihuman paladins! If you want to customize your paladin, you can choose a kit from The Complete Paladin's Handbook. Some kits from The Complete Fighter's Handbook also make good paladins, especially the cavalier, noble warrior, swashbuckler, and samurai.
PRIEST: These are the specialty priests listed in Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Because they are already specialists, they have no kits. Therefore they are played as written in the above texts.
PSIONICIST: The psionicist class is exactly as written in The Complete Book Of Psionics. As it is such a specialized class, there are no psionicist kits.
SHAMAN: The shaman class is a combination of the classes listed in The Complete Barbarian's Handbook, and Faiths & Avatars. The shaman gets access to the Spheres Of Influence listed in The Complete Barbarian's Handbook, as well as the hit dice, fast movement rate, climbing, leaping & springing abilities also listed in that book. He also gets the Spirit Guide and the Totem Powers listed in Faiths & Avatars. If you want to customize your shaman even more you can choose any of the shaman kits from The Complete Barbarian's Handbook.
SKALD: This is the bard kit rewritten as a seperate class from the barbarian culture. He has all the abilities listed under this kit in The Complete Bard's Handbook, plus the shaman's climbing, leaping, and back detection abilities, and the faster movement rate that all barbarian classes have. He also has d8 hit dice instead of the civilized bard's d6.
SORCERER: This is the sorcerer class from 3rd Edition D&D rewritten as a 2nd Edition PC class. He has the same hit dice, spell advancement, armour restrictions, and weapon proficiency lists as in 3E. He gets a wizard's THAC0, a rogue's ChP to spend on weapon proficiencies, and a wizard's ChP to spend on nonweapon proficiencies. He also gets bonus spells for high charisma scores (using the cleric/priest table for bonus spells due to high wisdom).
THIEF: The thief class is exactly as written in The Player's Handbook. If you want to customize your thief, you can choose any of the kits from The Complete Thief's Handbook.
WITCHDOCTOR: This class is a sorcerer who was born and raised in a barbarian culture. The witchdoctor class replaces the arctic wizard and savage wizard kits from The Complete Wizard's Handbook. He gets the same leaping, climbing, and running abilities as the shaman and skald. He gets d6 hit dice instead of the usual d4. Other than that he is exactly the same as the sorcerer. Same armour restrictions, weapon restrictions, number of character points to spend on weapon and nonweapon proficiencies, spell level advancement, number of spells per day, etc. The only other difference is that the witchdoctor gets no bonus spells for high charisma.
WIZARD: The wizard class is exactly the same as it is in The Player's Handbook. You can either customize your wizard by choosing to make him a specialist wizard (Conjurer, Transmuter, Evoker, Wild Mage, etc), or you can choose one of the kits from The Complete Wizard's Handbook (except for the arctic wizard and savage wizard kits, which have been replaced with the witchdoctor class). Wizards with high INT scores get bonus spells as clerics/priests with high WIS scores.
DATE, PLACE & TIME: The games will take place at my apartment in East Vancouver, BC on Sunday nights. We'll hopefully start playing in the late afternoon (around 4:00 pm), or possibly early evening (around 7:00 pm), depending on my work schedule. I need players and DMs who can commit to gaming at least every other weekend. Well, that's about all the information I can think of to give you. Please, either email me through this website or post on this thread and hopefully we can look forward to gaming together for a long time.
Last edited by Tony Misfeldt; 12-12-2007 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Unfinished because I ran out of time at the library.
Now am I supposed to whore myself out for strictly game art or shoot for the highbrow stuff?
It's important to know these things.
I don't want to waste my time on Picasso if Erol Otus was all I needed, you know?
Every art whore I've met at university would never play D&D. They are too busy throwing objects covered in paint at a canvas and trying to pass it off as art. That is of course when they are sipping wine and complaining about everything.
And their cheese, don't forget to pass the Abbaye de Belloc.
The labels of the "types" of players you are looking for has got to go. I am an artist and take offense at the stereotype "art whore". Not to mention the fact that it has been discussed to death in the arts community. And straight out dismissing "munchkins"...
Does Art Whore = Emo?
Do they cut themselves if they're really feeling all artistic? Or are we just talking about the people who pull nose hairs to make it look like they're crying?
I'm sorry, I thought this was a website for experienced gamers not a bunch of whiney little children. In the gaming community the term "Art Whore" means a person who prefers actual ROLE-playing to Hack & Slash. The term "Munchkin" refers to players who prefer it the other way around (also power gamers who substitute high stats and aquiring powerful magic items to playing a character with an actual personality). If you don't like the terminology? TOUGH! I didn't invent it, but it's how I differentiate ROLL-players from ROLE-players. So from now on, please don't post on this thread unless you actually have some intension of joining the group.
Calling both the players you'd like and the players you'd dislike by derogatory terms tends not to endear you to either group, or to the boards at large.
Personally I've been called far worse, but I'm trying to explain the consensus among the moderators. After many months of agonizing, we had to ban a user who insulted others on the board, and reacted badly to criticism; we'd rather not have to do it again.
And yes, I've no intention of joining your group, and so I'm violating your rules as laid down on this thread. Deal.
"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
- Charles Babbage (1791 - 1871)
Personally, I don't care for such terms, but I am loathe to censor such wording, even if calling someone anything with the term "whore" in it is clearly offensive. My one piece of advice would be that if you are trying to attract people to game with you, you may well push away potential players by tossing around offensive labels.
Tony, I don't particularly care who you think you are, but you don't get to lay down rules here.
Now I'll admit that the rest of us had a bit of fun at your expense, but the presentation of your massive ego gave us a nigh irresistible target. Now you can deflate that giant thing somewhat and join the rest of us or keep on going and float away. The choice is yours to make, neighbor, but frankly, if you ever want to hang on to a group of roleplayers, then you will cool it.
You can start by not capitalizing roll and role every time you use them and follow through by not demanding the precise nature of the game you want to start with. Give your players room to breathe, and people might just respond a bit more and a bit better.
Now, if any of you had bothered to read past the first paragraph or two, you would realize that I'm not imposing a lot of restrictions on the players at all. As a matter of fact, most of the information in the ad is of stuff the players can do. The reasons behind the restrictions towards other DMs is threefold. First, the whole point of the rotating DM system is to allow the players to get thier characters up in levels while at the same time preventing DM burnout. If the first thing a new DM says is "Okay, we're going to be playing with 3.5 rules. I want new characters, we're all starting at first level, and we're playing in Greyhawk." then the whole point is pretty much lost. Second, I don't like D&D 3.5 and don't want to play 3.5. Therefore I want everyone to agree to keep the game in 2.5 Edition. Third, while I have several adventures ready to play, they're all spread out throughout The Realms and require characters of varying degrees of experience. I don't want to be stuck behind the DM screen for years leveling everyone up to the point where they can handle the future adventures. Sometimes I just want to sit back and play, but I still want us to get to the point where we can go on those adventures in the future. But if we keep switching characters, systems, campaign worlds, etc, every time we switch DMs, that ain't gonna happen. And I never said that we absolutely could never adventure in Krynn or Greyhawk or where ever. But if people create characters that have a particular life quest (as I tend to do), then that life quest would require them to be on Toril to see it through. Thus any adventures in alternate campaign settings should end with a return to The Realms.
The only other real restriction put on players is no evil PCs. This is also a multireason rule. First, I tend to write adventures with a good vs evil theme, with the PCs being the goodguys. If players write evil PCs, they kind of ruin all the work put into writing those adventures. Second, it's been my experience that very few players have the mental maturity to play evil PCs properly. They seem to confuse being "evil" with being "stupid". The first thing any player ever does whenever they try and play an evil PC is try and murder his fellow PCs. Even if it's an all evil adventuring party, that's their goal. Not going on the adventure as set out by the DM, but murder all fellow PCs. This is not only poor gaming etiquette, but it's also very unwise. Evil PCs should see their fellow PCs as trap fodder and human shields first, personal rivals last. Many players, especially munchkins, don't understand this. This is why I don't want either munchkins or evil PCs in my group.
Everything else in my ad is of what you can do, not what you can't. How many DMs do you know who'll allow you to start play at 3rd level? Or let you roll 4d6, rerolling all ones and dropping the lowest die when rolling up stats? Or play a good aligned alu-fiend, doppleganger, or pseudolich? I even converted the 3rd Edition classes of Monk and Sorcerer into 2.5 Edition terms to appeal to the 3.5 players out there who might be intrigued by the playing style but are reluctant to leave their precious d20 system behind.
Now, if you wish to play a game of D&D where good story telling takes precedence over killing monsters? Please post on this thread. If all you want to do is throw dice? There are plenty of craps tables in Las Vegas and Atlantic City. If you wish to know more about the terms Art Whore and Munchkin? Contact the people at Gaming Central (www.wherethegamesare.com), that's where I learned the terms about six years ago. If you want to discuss the terms Art Whore and Munchkin, perhaps to find new phrases to describe them rather than ROLE-player and ROLL-player? Please start your own thread on a different board. Last I checked, this board was meant for players and DMs to find likeminded individuals to play D&D with, which is exactly what I joined this website to do.
Last edited by Tony Misfeldt; 12-12-2007 at 02:46 PM.
Okay here's the problems I see:
1. The ONLY person who can tell a moderator what to do is Farcaster.
2. Whore is vulgar term and with the emormity of the American lexicon there are many non-vulgar alternatives.
Now if you have a grievance with a moderator take it to that moderator and then to Farcaster in private messages. The public threads are not here for you to assert your dominance over the establishment.
As for alternative terms I would suggest you use hack-n-slash as opposed to Munchin. Just because some other web-page create a bunch of classifications doesn't mean they are accepted by the players or even appropriate. If your sole defense is that you don't want to spend the extra time and energy to type out non-offensive words then you will be moderated everytime. This may be the internet but this is also a g-rated site and the moderators in conjunction with Farcaster try to keep things g-rated.
Something I should have said earlier is that we want you to stick around here and be a member of our community. Our goal is not to run you off or to be a totalitarian forum. Our goal is just to a provide safe place for those of us like-minded individuals to come and share knowledge and experiences.
I hope you take my criticisms constructively and my advice with the feelings of friendship in which they were given. I also hope you become a member of this community.
Tony, if you feel the need to pursue this further, I would be happy to elucidate my point.
However, 2 bits of information you may want before we go forward. I don't play D&D, haven't played it in about 4 - 5 years. Moreover, I haven't bought a D&D book since before 1st edition ended, so I have no clue about your home-brewed up ruleset and don't actually care all that much one way or the other.
My actual focus was on an entirely different section of your post than you've already mentioned.
Again, I can make myself available via chat or PM to discuss these issues in more depth.