Reply With QuoteI think I should stick with just describing what's going on and sketching the occasional bad map out.Originally Posted by Farcaster
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I've been pretty happy with KloOge, albeit a two-dimensional virtual gaming table. With KloOge, I can markup the map if I need to, and I can use images from online to make my minis. My regular game at this point is online, so I pretty much rely on this tool and it does a pretty good job. Best of all, it's a one time fee. If I'm only purchasing a subscription to DI for the tools, then I'm paying up to $180/yr for it. And I'd presume everyone at my gaming table would need to be a DI to logon to my game, so that's $720/yr for the four of us. That's asking a lot.
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I think I should stick with just describing what's going on and sketching the occasional bad map out.
Sorry, but KloOge just doesn't do it for me. For what I want, it's actually pretty lame (by my standards, that is).
The integration between these tools and Dungeon and Dragon as well as the published materials are something that I'm the only one talking about here. If I want to use an adventure out of Dungeon, I can just load the maps up on the gametable (I'd assume the same would be true of published modules I purchased as well) and everything will be there already; less prep work, more action. Similarly, if there's a character option (whether it be a feat, talent, race or whatever) in an issue of Dragon that I like (or, again, in a book that I buy), I'd be able to load that into the character creator. All of this with little to no work done on my part.
Am I paying for convenience? Yes. I'm also paying to have things done right the first time; I cannot tell you how many times I've mis-coded something for CharGen and had to go back and fix (or scrap) my work.
If you don't want those conveniences, don't pay for them.
Your pal,
Adam Bomb
"At Gen Con, we did state that the price would fall somewhere between the cost of a single print issue of Dragon magazine and the monthly fee of a MMORPG (in other words, between $10 and $15)."
I used to subscribe to both Dungeon and Dragon magazines that was $37.95 a year each; or about $6.33/month for a well-produced print magazine delivered to my door.
Now, WotC wants to double that price for online content.
One of the reason I don't play MMORPGs is the monthly cost. I don't always have time to play, yet I'm still having to pay that monthly fee. Great for the company, not so great for the consumer.
I hope they have an ala carte menu where I can get what I want/need without having to pay for things I won't use. I kinda doubt it though. WotC is making their stand based on what their marketing/finance departments think will boost their revenue the most, not what I want.
Besides if I wanted to play a MMORPG there are plenty out there, I want to play pen and paper with my friends. Just my two copper.
Plain and simple WoTC are greedy.
I think having a online tabletop in cool, but, if I wanted to play an online graphics based D&D, I've got NWN, and that's free. Or, I can play WOW for a fee that is less than what they want for the Insider.
The thing about D&D is you can own 3 books and thats all you need, actually, if you only want to play you really only need the PHB. Sure, all the expansions are cool, but they are not needed to play the game. I feel the same way about the Insider, I would love to be able to take advantage of some of the extras, but I am not going to pay a monthly fee for D&D, ever.
I will miss Dragon and Dungeon, they were good readings, however I never had a subscription, and rarely bought them because they are both close to $8 or $9 a month.
Like some of the posters said, having a hard copy of D&D product is much better than digital downloads.
Oh, well.. What Do I know about D&D, I've only been playing it for over a decade or two.
The sky is not falling.
Yes, Wizards wants to profit. That's how they stay in business. Price is between the cost of a magazine and a MMO sub, and they are saying this early to gauge responses. I'm going to wager that this comes in under $10.
I love the idea of online tools, but have yet to find one that I think is any good for my picky needs. Here is to hoping theirs are good.
Being able to unlock the products I buy and have everything in the online tool is also huge. I have friends in multiple states that I still wish I could game with. If I could game with my local group and then turn around and run the same module a few times on the internet with old friends... that's HUGE.
It could suck, and it could be over priced - at which point we just don't buy it and someone (Pazio) steps in with print products to make us happy. This is just another option Wizards is throwing on the table, and provided that they don't break our arms for not using it, I'm not worried. I'll try it and decide from there.
--
Grimwell
AMEN.The sky is not falling.
Yes, Wizards wants to profit. That's how they stay in business. Price is between the cost of a magazine and a MMO sub, and they are saying this early to gauge responses. I'm going to wager that this comes in under $10.
I love the idea of online tools, but have yet to find one that I think is any good for my picky needs. Here is to hoping theirs are good.
Being able to unlock the products I buy and have everything in the online tool is also huge. I have friends in multiple states that I still wish I could game with. If I could game with my local group and then turn around and run the same module a few times on the internet with old friends... that's HUGE.
It could suck, and it could be over priced - at which point we just don't buy it and someone (Pazio) steps in with print products to make us happy. This is just another option Wizards is throwing on the table, and provided that they don't break our arms for not using it, I'm not worried. I'll try it and decide from there.
Your pal,
Adam Bomb
Administrator
You can do that now. I run a game for my old group in Dallas using the Video chat of Skype (free) and KloOge for our battle mat (~$35 I think it was). I'm not saying the concept of online tools isn't appealing. What I'm saying is that it would have to be amazingly impressive to be worth $180 per year. I very much doubt the tools on their own are going to be worth shelling that much out, so I suspect you'd also have to be interested in their online publication.
Perhaps if they provide a la carte pricing...
Not sure if I would say I classify my post as a sky is falling post, but whatever...
As far as pricing, as it stands the two mags in print are both around $11 a piece.. Point being, it could be a good deal you are correct.. If they charge $10 and you get all the tools they are talking about (Gaming table, etc).
just to get up to speed here, does Paizo or another company have plans to continue with print fantasy RPG mags? (Other than Pathfinder, which seems to be a fancy version of Dungeon, which is fine with me)
And, is the rumor I heard true- is WotC planning on cancelling the OGL?
With all this, sites like this one will become all the more important to gamers. Thanks Farcaster!
Administrator
No, it is not true. According to their press release, the OGL will be available in 4th edition... And, you're welcome.
City Watch
The OGL is there so that WoTC doesn't have to concentrate on things they do not feel are profitable enough.
I was a huge fan of Dungeon, but not Dragon so much. I do prefer the hard copy as I prefer a good table top game over computer assisted nonsense. I can't see the cost as reasonable.
The sky might not be falling, but the ground is moving beneath our feet.
Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.
I can't be alone in the fact that I like the feeling of flipping through a new mag- browsing it on the train to work, before bed, on lunch- online magz & materials just dont have that draw, the is a void & someone needs to fill it.
God, I wish I had the starting capital to put out a fan-zine
This isn't entirely accurate. The OGL exists to drive sales of WotC's core product.
Think of it like this: Microsoft makes XBox 360 video game consoles, and some games. Other studios (combined) make a lot more 360 games than Microsoft can kick out annually. But, those games need a computing platform to work off of, a system; Microsoft licenses studios to produce games for its system under its software license. These games not only drive the sale of games themselves, but also the basic game system.
Similarly, the core rulebooks are designed in such a way that a third party designer can come along and simply start producing new material and never have to write his own Player's Handbook, DMG or MM. This is good for WotC since more and more people using their system as a base line for their own products will drive the sales of their own products. It's really a symbiotic market relationship.
When you add to this mix some of the peculiarities of the OGL and d20STL, reliance on the core books is nearly assured. For example, the OGL precludes anyone from describing the effects of experience points upon characters -- you can't describe the process for leveling up your character! There are similar restrictions on part of character creation.
I know your gut reaction may be something along the lines of how much you hate evil, money-grubbing companies, but think about this: we live in a capitalist economy. We love DnD. We want DnD to be around for a long, long time. If DnD is going to be around for a long, long time, the company that produces it needs to be profitable. For the company that produces DnD to be profitable, it needs a good business model. The good business model should do everything it can to drive sales of the DnD product, assuring not only its market penetration, but also its profitability and, thus, long life.
Business isn't bad, folks. The OGL system is actually here to serve us, to keep the game I assume we all love around for as long as possible.
Your pal,
Adam Bomb
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