Epic Rules

[RealmsDM]

I guess it really depends on what type of game you're running. If its a Uber campaign with epic dragons flying around, and every evil spellcaster has the worm that walks template & has winter wight servants, then the campaign might have a few PCs walking around with ability scores in the 30's....

[Farcaster]

I also allow items to count towards the requirements for feats Epic and otherwise. So, if the fighter has only a 12 dexterity, but he's walking around with a +2 dex item, I'll allow him to take the Dodge feat regardless. Of course, he can't actually use the feat unless he is currently meeting the prerequisites. This becomes critical in the Epic levels because of the extremely high requirements.

And actually, in my current campaign (level 17), I have one or two characters who are already adjusted into the 25-30 range for their primary stats. The most sickening example is the paladin, who with his gear, a couple inherent bonuses and an active paladin spell of his, he has something like a 28 charisma. That's an incredible bonus to his saves and a great multiplier for his LOH.

[RealmsDM]

I guess I'm the minority here. I do not allow PCs to take feats unless their base ability score measures up.
Plus, if you lose the item, then what? Call me crazy, its just the way I like it. But that's the beauty of RPG games- you can do what you want...

[Ed Zachary]

And in the case of the fighter, look at how awesome his feats (in number and kind) have been up to 20th level. If they fall off a little at Epic levels...meh. But I agree, the pre-req's are doable if you have been a two-weapon fighter all along and focused on bettering that ability.

I do allow items (amulets, gloves, etc) to count towards those pre-reqs, because they are semi-permanent. My players know that those bonuses could be lost to them permanently or temporarily, depending on the situation. So if they want to rely on an item to give them an Epic feat when that item could be dispelled/disintegrated/damaged on a saving throw of 1/etc, then I am fine with that.

What it comes down to is that more generous DMs will have characters that qualify for more epic feats.

I guess I'm the minority here. I do not allow PCs to take feats unless their base ability score measures up.
Plus, if you lose the item, then what? Call me crazy, its just the way I like it. But that's the beauty of RPG games- you can do what you want...

Exactly...

[starfalconkd]

My very simple reasoning for allowing the items to count is: the really cool wizard feats don't have a stat requirement. Why should the wizard be able to take numerous great feats in epic levels without the high stat requirement? Especially when the epic wizard, with access to wish, has the easiest time getting to said requirement. At 21st level the epic wizard can select multispell, improved spell capacity, efficient item creation, enhance spell, improved heighten spell, and scribe epic scroll. If our fighter friend is not an archer his choices are pretty much dire charge or superior initiative, unless he had 18 strength and put all 5 stat adjustments there, then he might qualify overwhelming critical which is kind of awful. All the fighter's feats are denied him unless he has 25 str, dex, and/or con. I suppose you could argue this is a reason to take the great str, great dex, or great con feats, but those are kind of stupid too. The straight fighter may get more epic feats than anyone else, but he can't access any of them until he has truly epic stats.

[ajmuszkiewicz]

My very simple reasoning for allowing the items to count is: the really cool wizard feats don't have a stat requirement. Why should the wizard be able to take numerous great feats in epic levels without the high stat requirement? Especially when the epic wizard, with access to wish, has the easiest time getting to said requirement.

Let's not forget, though, that to craft all of the Epic level magic items that the wizard undoubtedly wants to (or in some cases has to) create for himself and the rest of his party just to stay competitive at higher levels really eats up experience points. The GP Limit of nearly every settlement in nearly every world should make Epic gear nearly impossible to come by, making the wizard's ability to become a "magic item factory" almost a necessity at higher levels.

Add the added xp drain of the xp requirement of spells like wish and many of the Epic spells. Suddenly, you've got a wizard who needs to invest so much of his own reserve of xp in his own stats, his gear, and the gear and stats of his comrades that he could easily be a level or two behind the rest of his party at any given time.

So, we have a situation where wizards are being held back by the party's needs for advancement while the rest of the party don't really have call to invest any of their xp in nearly as many avenues, and you can quickly have a matter of party equality on your hands: what do you do to keep that wizard on par with the group's fighter?

Even though the fighter and rogue in the group may be gaining levels when the wizard isn't, and thus gaining some level-dependent benefits (hp, etc.), adding a few tough requirements to some feats just serve as a check and balance system to keep them from overpowering the group's wizard.

[TheYeti1775]

I also allow items to count towards the requirements for feats Epic and otherwise. So, if the fighter has only a 12 dexterity, but he's walking around with a +2 dex item, I'll allow him to take the Dodge feat regardless. Of course, he can't actually use the feat unless he is currently meeting the prerequisites. This becomes critical in the Epic levels because of the extremely high requirements.

And actually, in my current campaign (level 17), I have one or two characters who are already adjusted into the 25-30 range for their primary stats. The most sickening example is the paladin, who with his gear, a couple inherent bonuses and an active paladin spell of his, he has something like a 28 charisma. That's an incredible bonus to his saves and a great multiplier for his LOH.

No even better is the Dawnforge game I'm in. It was run as a more high powered game. So the Point Buy was a 36+3d6 one. Yes I know, yikes from most of you. Don't worry the DM certainly scaled the encounters and NPC's to it.

Here is a look at Lord Lorac Dargaard's stats. Also remember in Dawnforge, at 10th level due to every PC race having abilities added of your choosing from a list, from 1st to 10th as an adjusted ECL of +2.
Fighter 10 / Celestial Heritage 5 (5 level PrC created by DM) He is beginning to take levels in Epic General (from the main Dawnforge book).
Trueborn Human
S: 26 (22 Base, +2 from 2 Legendary Point Circles (Dawnforge mechanic) +2 Gauntlets)
D: 12 (12 Base - He wears Full Plate it was easy to make this the dump stat. )
C: 20 (20 Base)
I: 14 (14 Base)
W: 16 (16 Base)
Ch: 28 (22 Base(Racial adj), +3 from Leg Point Circles, +3 Level Ups)

Took the Force of Personality feat so his Cha counts as Will saves vice his Wisdom.
Also took the Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing), as he was focused on Sword & Board style, but his latest weapon has switched to 2-handed Greatsword style.

Our Sorc in the party had the highest score in Charisma around 31 or 33 I think. They had used all 5 cirlcels in it for a +5, as well as their level adjustments and finding items.

So depending on your game, some of those requirements are easily reached.

[starfalconkd]

Let's not forget, though, that to craft all of the Epic level magic items that the wizard undoubtedly wants to (or in some cases has to) create for himself and the rest of his party just to stay competitive at higher levels really eats up experience points. The GP Limit of nearly every settlement in nearly every world should make Epic gear nearly impossible to come by, making the wizard's ability to become a "magic item factory" almost a necessity at higher levels.

Add the added xp drain of the xp requirement of spells like wish and many of the Epic spells. Suddenly, you've got a wizard who needs to invest so much of his own reserve of xp in his own stats, his gear, and the gear and stats of his comrades that he could easily be a level or two behind the rest of his party at any given time.

So, we have a situation where wizards are being held back by the party's needs for advancement while the rest of the party don't really have call to invest any of their xp in nearly as many avenues, and you can quickly have a matter of party equality on your hands: what do you do to keep that wizard on par with the group's fighter?

Even though the fighter and rogue in the group may be gaining levels when the wizard isn't, and thus gaining some level-dependent benefits (hp, etc.), adding a few tough requirements to some feats just serve as a check and balance system to keep them from overpowering the group's wizard.

And what about the numerous wizard who are not item crafters? Also, due to the way XP works, a wizard who falls a level behind gets more XP from any given fight. The only thing that slows wizards down is the DM being careful not to allow him to know too many spells. And that can't be overly controlled except by being careful with treasure. Still I've met PCs who are all too happy to only deal with whatever treasure you give them or that they can purchase.
A clever 21st level wizard, with the multispell feat, can destroy powerful encounters without breaking a sweat. Three spells per round may burn through the wizards repertoire quickly, but if he has been careful with spell use he can lay waste to even the most powerful threat quickly.