Recent Chat Activity (Main Lobby)
Join Chat

Loading Chat Log...

Prefer not to see ads? Become a Community Supporter.
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: 3.5 Rule mongering questions!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Suzail
    Posts
    19
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    3.5 Rule mongering questions!

    Prefer not to see ads?
    Become a Community Supporter.
    SO. Within a campaign world of mine, I have a good creature warped by an evil item, that makes the creature appear/behave evil. For example: A Solar has a mask put on him by a god, that essentially makes him evil. If the mask were removed, he would be himself again, a solar in all their LG glory.

    NOW: Holy word is as follows:
    Holy Word
    Evocation [Good, Sonic]
    Level: Clr 7, Good 7
    Components: V
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: 40 ft.
    Area: Nongood creatures in a 40-ft.-radius
    spread centered on you
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None or Will negates; see
    text
    Spell Resistance: Yes
    Any nongood creature within the area that
    hears the holy word suffers the following ill
    effects.
    HD Effect
    Equal to caster level Deafened
    Up to caster level 1 Blinded, deafened
    Up to caster level 5 Paralyzed, blinded,
    deafened
    Up to caster level 10 Killed, paralyzed,
    blinded, deafened
    The effects are cumulative and concurrent.
    No saving throw is allowed against these
    effects.
    Deafened: The creature is deafened for
    1d4 rounds.
    Blinded: The creature is blinded for 2d4
    rounds.
    Paralyzed: The creature is paralyzed and
    helpless for 1d10 minutes.
    Killed: Living creatures die. Undead
    creatures are destroyed.
    Furthermore, if you are on your home
    plane when you cast this spell, nongood
    extraplanar creatures within the area are
    instantly banished back to their home
    planes. Creatures so banished cannot
    return for at least 24 hours. This effect
    takes place regardless of whether the creatures
    hear the holy word. The banishment
    effect allows a Will save (at a 4 penalty) to
    negate.
    Creatures whose HD exceed your caster
    level are unaffected by holy word.

    Now, let's say a 24HD character casts Holy Word. Would it effect the Solar? The mask makes him nongood, but the creature by nature is good. The fact that it was placed on him by a deity means it will not be removed so easily. Would the angel just shrug it off, or be banished for a day?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,207
    Blog Entries
    42
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    hmmmm. for the record, in my campaign world, it is impossible to forcibly mess with the moral and/or ethical agency of an individual by any means or power up to and including artifact, epic, and deity level effects or actions. i strongly disagree with the existence of such things. which has a number of odd and interesting affects on game mechanics, magical effects and items in said campaign world setting.

    having mentioned that... i suppose it would depend on what you decide for the wording of the mechanics of the mask. if the mask functions by effectively (if temporarily) lobotomizing, or somehow imprisoning the reasoning/ethical/moral agency of the solar, or replacing the personality or some such; then it would be the mask that is evil and the solar retains its' good subtype, which would likely make it immune to holy word, but not the mask (if and only if it functions as if it were, or in fact actually is, a creature of some type).

    if the mask is not in any way a creature, and/or functions by changing the subtype of the creature, along with the mindset or whatever... then holy word would be effective.

    your use of "appear/behave" inclines me to think more the former where it does not actually change the essential nature or agency of the solar, thus holy word would not be effective, in my opinion.

    ^^
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    1,020
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    You invented the item, so you'll have to define how it works.

    The spell affects creatures of evil alignment, not just those with the evil keyword, so if the mask actually changes the alignment of the wearer, then you have the hilarious result of banishing an evil creature to a good plane.

    On the other hand, if the mask is creating a permanent Dominate-like effect, then the underlying alignment would not change, so the spell would do nothing.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,207
    Blog Entries
    42
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    maybe they just needed some clarification of thought by getting ideas bounced back at them by the community?
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    773
    Blog Entries
    1
    Downloads
    8
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Valdar View Post
    You invented the item, so you'll have to define how it works.
    This.

    A solar really isn't a solar if it's not good. Planar creatures are wacky like that: they're not made of cells and water, they're made of good and evil. So to make a solar evil is to destroy it, or turn it into a demon.
    Powered by: Modos RPG, version 1.21
    http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdown...ownloadid=1087

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prattville
    Age
    52
    Posts
    819
    Blog Entries
    4
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    I have to go with DMMike here. Being good is a core requirement for a Solar... like iron-based blood is for a human. If you replace the iron-based blood and enable the human to continue to live, you have created a new species. To make a Solar evil - you have "unsolarized" it.

    The way I've always read it, Solars are beings in direct servitude to a deity, and according to real-world (as real as it gets) mythology, they are CREATED by the deity.

    The way I would adjudicate it is that the mask is a temporary, "curable" condition, and that the Solar is forced to be/think/act evil. The way I would do it is that the Solar WOULD be effected by the Holy Word, but at a slightly lesser degree... almost as if the Solar "knew" he was under compulsion and "wanted" to be stopped and cured. I'd give him butt-loads of damage from the Word and stun him - and have something happen that gives the characters a clue as to what is going on.

    Once "cured" - it would be up to the Solar (with urgings or advice from the PC's) to either take up the mantle of evil and find a demonic sponsor, or go crawling back to their deity to request penance and absolution for their perceived sins.
    __________________________________________________ _____

    Edited to add:

    This goes back to my personal definition of the way bad guys are depicted in movies: Are they normal people ACTING badly (Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, or John Leguizamo as the Evil Clown in Spawn), or are they REALLY evil and acting normally (Kathy Bates in Misery, or Heath Ledger as the Joker in Batman: The Dark Knight). The "acting" part can be identified by reactions that look like, "Gosh, I think a bad person would do something like this," while the "real" part looks like, "I'm going to what I want because it comes naturally." If the Solar looks like he has to THINK about what he should do to look/act evil, an intelligent PC (or player) may pick up on it.
    Last edited by Malruhn; 08-19-2012 at 11:54 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,207
    Blog Entries
    42
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    i disagree with any concept that abrogates the ability of a sentient entity to choose for self what course they will take, as well as any concept that negates the ability of awareness of conscience. so, basically i'm kinda repeating myself, and holding out for my suggestion.

    besides, (irl) angels are not what most people seem to think they are. but that is mostly a pr issue as well as the human tendency to make a few changes to the story for various reasons, exacerbated by the passage of time.
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    773
    Blog Entries
    1
    Downloads
    8
    Uploads
    0
    Um, niji, does that mean your vampires don't Dominate or your Illithid don't enthrall?
    Powered by: Modos RPG, version 1.21
    http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdown...ownloadid=1087

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,207
    Blog Entries
    42
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    those abilities translate to hypnosis-like mechanics combined with mental projection. they can "lean" on someone really hard, but ultimately someone could theoretically stubbornly refuse to submit, no matter what. however, such creatures are equally aware of this fact, and are likely to be well versed in terror, interrogation, and psychosis-inducing tactics. if they have time to do so, they can wear one down, tire one out, threaten and/or actually harm loved ones, ect., and eventually break most victims. clever ones prepare victims ahead of time or sneak in through dreams and whispered thoughts over a long time and try to plant hypnotic suggestions ahead of time. this prepared-in-advance groundwork actually accounts for the "sudden domination" trick used mid-combat in my systems.

    all they really need is the consent of the victim in order to start their nefarious work. once consent is given, it can be really hard to boot such creatures back out.
    Last edited by nijineko; 08-26-2012 at 06:59 PM.
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Wayne
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I would probably have the holy word spell do something similar to a dispel magic effect. Basically, give the mask a will save. If it fails its save, it will be suppressed for 1d4 rounds (long enough for the Solar to give the PCs a little information).

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •