Warning: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in ..../includes/class_bbcode.php on line 2958
the thoughtlessness of the anti-tights people in superhero gaming - Page 2
Recent Chat Activity (Main Lobby)
Join Chat

Loading Chat Log...

Prefer not to see ads? Become a Community Supporter.
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 43

Thread: the thoughtlessness of the anti-tights people in superhero gaming

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,273
    Blog Entries
    41
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Prefer not to see ads?
    Become a Community Supporter.
    You remind me of the 'RP Game Creation' skill in TMNT that grants you +1 PE for all those 'sleepless nights struggling with your creation'.
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Norman
    Posts
    197
    Downloads
    29
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nijineko View Post
    yet the converse is also true. one can completely disregard the historical context of tights and capes, dislike them, ban them from games, and still be a true lover of the superhero genre. you risk the same danger as that you claim of those who you complain against when you apply such
    While much of what you have written has worth, you somehow overlook a glaringly obvious point. That disappointed me more than usual because it surprised after so much else you had written here had impressed me.

    Yes, it is possible to consider varying from the traditions of capes and tights for logical, intelligent, or aesthetic reasons -- but these are almost never the case with the majority of internet posters who dislike capes and tights.

    Perhaps the fault is partially mine: I considered the point so obvious I did not state it outright, a danger in any internet posting these days.

    To avoid a repeat of that danger, I will subdivide my point into two points for added clarity.

    1) Many people who want superheroes without tights and capes are nothing more respectable than one more iteration of those people who want to plunder the style of something they fancy while discarding its substance as too difficult or too sincere and revealing for them to make the effort to bother to grasp. The people who claim to enjoy superheroes while despising tights and capes are ethically and intellectually identical to the people who adamantly insist they count as full-fledged rock and roll stars because they can manage a decent air guitar performance and know how to pepper their talk with "authentic" slang; they are identical to the people who honestly expect everyone to consider them "playahs" because they have a drawer full of never-been-used devices purchased in plain brown wrapping and a water bed with a mirror on the ceiling over it; they are identical to the people who become angry if you do not treat them as experts in philosophy because they have managed to pick up the right jargon in a city college survey course on philosophy they dropped out of during the fourth week of school because the readings surprised them by being difficult. They remind me of my 9 year old nephew putting on a T-shirt a certain way, sagging his pants a certain way, growling "dawg" a certain way, and then convinced this should be all the effort he needed to put forth to convince us all that he was a basketball master equal in talent to the professionals he saw on television.

    They are identical with the posers, the phoneys, and the self-deluding sorts who genuinely believe that style is all that is necessary.

    2) Most people who want superheroes without tights and capes are, at the heart of it all, desperately ashamed to admit they enjoy superheroes. So they try to hide it by making it "real" with R rated violence. Or they try to cover it up by removing the moral compass that has been part of the genre for most of its history. Or they try to disguise it by getting rid of capes and tights and codenames and anything about it that really made them fall in love with it when they first encountered it years ago.

    These are the people who whimper, "But tights are so totally g**!", desperately warding off their terror of this non-existent challenge to their masculinity with a mild homophobic slur.

    That is the most galling part of it all. These people do not act out of ignorance but out of a PRIDE in their ignorance. They do not dislike capes and tights because they see a possible evolution but because they can not imagine any reason to consider substance instead of style in their calculations.

    Worse of all, these people hate capes and tights because they are ashamed to admit that they like superheroes as superheroes, so they have to disguise it as something else. Shoemaker explains this concept fairly well here: http://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/c...eryone/cbmqoj4

    The two above seemed so obvious to me that I never mentioned them. Your intelligent post leads me to suspect they might not be as obvious as I had thought, a rather disenheartening possibility.

    As I acknowledge at the start of this post, there are those rare individuals who decline capes and tights for aesthetic, intelligent, and rational reasons, but they are very rare, and they never start off by denying the rich history of capes and tights or otherwise ranting against all of time and space over their horror that capes and tights have ever existed in superhero comic book stories.
    Last edited by magic-rhyme; 09-09-2013 at 10:09 PM.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,273
    Blog Entries
    41
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by magic-rhyme View Post
    While much of what you have written has worth, you somehow overlook a glaringly obvious point. That disappointed me more than usual because it surprised after so much else you had written here had impressed me.

    Yes, it is possible to consider varying from the traditions of capes and tights for logical, intelligent, or aesthetic reasons -- but these are almost never the case with the majority of internet posters who dislike capes and tights.

    ...shortened for quoting purposes...
    i do not believe i overlooked either of your salient points. i think that rather, i too, fell victim to considering it too obvious to mention. or possibly i simply forgot to mention it entirely by virtue of exhaustion... i believe i was rather tired when i submitted that stream of consciousness post. though i do not spend as much time online as some, i have also seen all too much of those who not only spurn, make game of, publicly despise, insistently encourage others to their view, bash any who oppose or even seem to oppose, and voluminously decry some particular thing; but are quickly revealed as almost, if not completely, ignorant of the subject matter of which they have gone on about at length, and at length.

    i instead focused on the fact that there are at least two groups, possibly more, whom be they ever so few, have valid reasons for differing opinions. one, those who have arrived at their conclusion through contemplation and careful consideration; and two, those who have not been exposed much, if at all, to the representations in question - such that they develop their own sets of values and ideals which for whatever reason, will not allow for such representations to be seen as acceptable.

    i also mentioned the danger of becoming what is being fought against. while i may not agree with the values and symbols being used, if i wish others to carefully consider my viewpoints, then i had best do the same for them, unless the object in question violates some belief or ideal of my own - in which case i would politely deal with the situation.

    there may even be some value or learning in the new paradigms being adopted, or at least a time and place where it would have ascendancy.


    i recall one time, when i was standing upon the steps of an indiana university classroom building, and someone was going on about a particular subject, bashing and otherwise making various claims about it. i asked them for some details, asked a few leading questions, and quickly determined that they didn't have the slightest clue of what they spoke, but were rather parroting what they had been told by someone else and had taken for verily fact.

    whereupon i made some counter claims, and when challenged, backed them up by revealing that i happened to be a subject matter expert, having experienced first hand of my own volition all of the things they claimed to have known about, and more. the person glanced around and then quickly, quietly faded into the background, and swiftly left.

    but so seldom does it turn out that way... usually they will just shout you down and go with emotional manipulation and public acclaim - mob psych.



    despite all that, i quite agree with you... most people do not seem to bother to educate themselves, contemplate other possibilities, or to even attempt to consider viewpoints that take time, effort, or are even a bit different from their current view, whatsoever that may happen to be.

    it is furthermore seriously annoying when people mistake surface for substance. as you alluded to in your examples there are many who seem to feel that adopting a mannerism or appearance is the same as sweat, tears, blood, practice, more practice, even more practice, drudgery, exhaustion, effort, failures, more failure, even more failures, and perhaps a bit of talent or even luck.

    on the other hand, especially in children (and those whose maturation level has never grown beyond such) such copy cat behavior is the natural form of roleplaying that all humans engage in.



    it just so happens that i just came from an email discussion with a friend where i was accused to projecting my own beliefs and views onto phenomena which my friend considered innocent of such associations... when the entire point i was attempting to make was contemplating if there was any possibility that the phenomena in question were instead projecting such characteristics upon the rest of reality, including us.


    ^^
    Last edited by nijineko; 09-10-2013 at 04:42 PM.
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    37
    Blog Entries
    1
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    It amazes me at times how people can have an opinion about something without really looking into the subject matter and actually trying something out first. I had one guy named John who made it clear that he didn't ever want to play in a superhero game. When I asked him why he stated that he didn't want to be confined to playing highly moral character like Superman and that superheroes where too hard for him to believe in. Of course he apparently hadn't either seen a superhero movie, read a comic made since the 70's and thought all the superheroes where like Adam West's Batman.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,273
    Blog Entries
    41
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    so many humans take one incident, experience, or hearsay, and apply it categorically to the whole subject matter... and to whatever else seems to be a nail for that hammer. =P
    Last edited by nijineko; 09-15-2013 at 11:46 AM.
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    37
    Blog Entries
    1
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    So true.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    58
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I agree.
    Elves keep their counsel and sharpen their ears.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Bellevue
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    I feel like you run great risk of making your foes of straw. Your points are quite valid and largely things I've discussed in my own group, but it seems like you would do better trying to inform the casuals you rail against rather than rant about them. Clearly you come from the informed and intellectual old-school. Pass it on. If the conventions and standards you're discussing are so important to you make them valuable to your targets. The culture of instant gratification can only really be fought by giving people the gift of fulfillment that comes from doing the leg work. You've said very eloquent salient things about the corruption of geek culture and the beauty of deep moral heroes. Geek culture doesn't need another rant. It needs a hero.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Norman
    Posts
    197
    Downloads
    29
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Eshaiel View Post
    I feel like you run great risk of making your foes of straw.
    In explanation: this post appeared in large part as a response against several anti-tights anti-shorts anti-capes rants here and elsewhere I had encountered in the same week, as part of a general zeitgeist about the matter occuring at penandpapergames, and when read in the context of those other posts, does not come across as a rant but as the least inflammatory of them all.

    However, you make a valid point. Without those original posts, this post risks coming across poorly; when I wrote it, I neglected to consider that it might be read weeks or months or even years later, long after the overarcing context of penandpapergames posts had disappeared. For that, I express my regret.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eshaiel View Post
    The culture of instant gratification can only really be fought by giving people the gift of fulfillment that comes from doing the leg work.
    Except the culture of instant gratification induces them to avoid doing the leg work as much as they can. In this case, I have done the leg work for them, and yet in such situations, they often complain that the effort of reading anything longer than half a paragraph fails to gratify them instantly enough, responding only with a complaint about "blocks of text" or "tl;dr" or "data-dumping". I have seen people accuse a ten line post of being a "block of text" or "data-dump" because they considered ten lines too much effort to read.

    If you have suggestions, I am quite open to them, here or by way of private contact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eshaiel View Post
    You've said very eloquent salient things about the corruption of geek culture and the beauty of deep moral heroes. Geek culture doesn't need another rant. It needs a hero.
    Perhaps, but because modern geek culture tolerates the self-deluding posers and phoneys in its midst without ever expecting them to improve or better themselves, the resulting geek culture tends to induce lifelong burn-out in the very heroes it needs. And because we live in an era when speaking any uncomfortable but verifiable facts is condemned as an intrusive act of bad taste, modern geek culture often censors (and censures) anyone who disagrees with the posers until we end up with the current situation: sincere thinkers isolating themselves into closed cliques of other thinkers because they've been enervated one too many times by the free reign of the posers, and the overall geek culture weighed down by the unthinking posers who play victim whenever they are asked to learn anything as a surefire method of avoiding learning anything -- and weighed down by the loss of the input of all the thinkers and heroes it has allowed the posers to silence.

    Constantly dealing with posers and phoneys is like speaking face-to-face against a sand-blaster: eventually, every part that can speak or hear is worn away until only shiny bits of bone and a few blood stains remain, and the sand-blaster is no more wiser than it had been before one began speaking. The only way to survive an argument with a sand-blaster is to walk away when it begins spewing at one -- or to surrender to it. The only way to survive an argument with a self-deluding poser who refuses to hear is to walk away as well, but then the poser will rally the geek community to condemn one as "mean" or "stuck-up" or "unsympathetic" for walking away, until most thinkers and heroes eventually learn to surrender to the posers while they are still something more than shiny bits of bone and a few blood stains.

    So perhaps we need heroes, but do you have any idea how heroes might survive the community as it now exists in the first portion of the 21st century?

    I can assure you that it didn't used to be this way. I remember a time when geeks who spoke off the top of their heads without anything but stubborn emotionalism to back them up were called on it mercilessly -- not ostracized or excluded, but never allowed to use verbal and emotional browbeating as a substitute for thoughtfulness, reason, and proof. I remember a time when any new geek found himself or herself with a dozen mentors willing to loan books by the best philosophers, scientists, scholars, and of course the greats in fantasy and SF writing and the greats in comic book art and writing. Today, most people who claim to be geeks will respond to an offer of a book by Nietszche or Hawking or Eliade with, "Why I gotta read that kind of stuff? I know what I know!" -- just before spouting uneducated nonsense about the ubermensch, the universe, or comparative mythology.

    (I will never forget meeting some alleged geeks who proudly insisted that Star Wars must be worthless because its SPFX were out-of-date. Or the alleged geeks I've heard say that the Hobbit movies are better than the books because they provide a way to avoid having to read a book to know what The Hobbit is about.)

    "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink," they say. For the geek community, I would add, "and if you insist on letting those horses use mob rule to take over your herd, you have no right to complain when you have a herd that is dying of dehydration."

    So if you have any solutions, I am in all sincerity eager to hear them, and if they are viable solutions which I can implement in both my real life and my online existence, I will be happy to do so.
    Last edited by magic-rhyme; 02-22-2014 at 04:33 PM.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,273
    Blog Entries
    41
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    ummm. not to put too fine a point on it... but that does not differ from any society, any clique, any gang, any government... in short any group of humans. as each generation of humans is raised, cultural concepts - artifacts if you will, are passed down, cast aside, taken back up, lost... and so on over the succeeding generations. each generation is exposed to a slightly different set of norms and claims, tend to polarize into for, against, or don't-make-waves; and thus form the altered norms and claims that the next generation is exposed to. these pass in literal waves through time and culture.

    it only takes four generations (minimum) to completely change a culture, though it often (usually) takes longer and is a staggered, rather than even, alteration. you see hints and echoes of it in fashion, collectibles, religion, and so forth, they come and go in waves of about 40-80 years on average, depending on numerous other factors - some specific trends take much longer to cycle around. when the waves in the various aspects of human experience coincide, there is a great alterations - the tower of babel, the dark ages, the renaissance, the industrial revolution, the 60's... to name only a few.

    the only solution, if you can call it that, is to stand as a light on a hill, a light house, a candle on a stick and weather the waves of ignorance, unbelief, and antagonism. start up a wiki, or some other archive, write articles in the field, do research... leave cultural artifacts that themselves will in turn be treasured, passed down, cast aside, lost, and perhaps recovered and treasured again. you need not look at what future generations will or won't do with it... your fight is to do what is right, now.

    in a way, it is much like the ongoing story of the secret true creator of the batman. only in this generation is his name becoming known, recognized, and his descendants are finally receiving the pittance royalties that is all the legal arrangements between the copyright owner and the titled author-whose-name-happens-to-be-on-the-cover allow. several someones stood strong, dug deep, uncovered the truth, and are fighting for his recognition. it has been a life-long work, one which outlasted the actual author, and has been carried on by his son, among others.



    how will you, and your works, be remembered?


    ^^
    Last edited by nijineko; 02-22-2014 at 12:40 PM.
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Bellevue
    Posts
    6
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    So perhaps we need heroes, but do you have any idea how heroes might survive the community as it now exists in the first portion of the 21st century?
    The same way the always have, willpower, clarity and determination. Nijineko is absolutely right, be the light on the hill. Stand firm even if you have to stand alone. Our people have changed and will continue to change. When that is a problem for you, you have to stand up and help guide that evolution. If you do truly care as much as it seems push the discussion, be honest and firm in your conviction. Most importantly be open. Most people have a hard time dealing with a real and earnest person these days and that enough to give them pause for thought, its a hell of an opening.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Norman
    Posts
    197
    Downloads
    29
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nijineko View Post
    but that does not differ from any society, any clique, any gang

    You do a nice job of encapsulating some basic social science insights, and on a large scale, what you write has merit.

    However, what you write also risks implying that what has gone wrong always goes wrong and therefore one should never expect better.

    In my own lifetime, I have witnessed a better era in the history of the geek subculture, and once I had more age and learning, I was able to verify that my personal experience was far from unique.

    That experience was a time when the geek subculture encouraged each and every member within it to better himself or herself in terms of intellectual depth and breadth and (as a culture) wanted nothing to do with those who adamantly rejected making any sort of effort -- the very opposite of large parts of the subculture today. Today, in many geek forums, if someone posts, "I've never read a book or learned anything about the world, but my opinion as a geek is just as good as anyone else's!", if someone else posts, "If you've never read a book or learned anything, you aren't really a geek", then half the time if the original poster whines or rages, a moderator will ban the second poster. Back in the days of bulletin boards or the early days of geek forums, if the original poster had whined or raged, the moderator would have responded, "No, you deserved to be told that -- go out and read some books about this topic or otherwise learn about it before posting on it!" and a few people might have written to the second poster, "I was thinking the same thing."

    To adapt some of your later metaphors, "shouting about it from the hilltops" as I have done in many of my penandpapergames posts is one of the ways by which I try to reassure my fellow geeks it is possible for the subculture to reach for the heights again by reminding them that there was a time in the past when our subculture did exactly that. By making it clear there was an era in the geek subculture when no one could censor a fact and eliminate that fact from all further acknowledgement simply by yowling that the facts hurts their feelings, I reinforce that it is well within our abilities to resurrect such a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by nijineko View Post
    leave cultural artifacts that themselves will in turn be treasured, passed down, cast aside, lost

    Before one can leave behind cultural artifacts, one must first encourage a world in which the silent majority no longer indulge the desires of the self-deluding posers and phoneys to vandalize, vilify, and erase from history whatever artifacts they find it convenient to ruin this week.

    It takes only one person to burn down an isolated town's library -- intentionally or because of a smugly apathetic carelessness with a match -- and condemn the entire town to the ignorance that results. It takes an entire town no longer willing to indulge such arson to ensure that not a single person feels free to burn down its library intentionally and not a single person feels free to be careless with a match around the library.

    Quote Originally Posted by nijineko View Post
    how will you, and your works, be remembered?

    No one knows for a certainty whether there will be a tomorrow, but we know there is a today, so we start out by trying to improve what is going on today.

    We do it in large actions, such as our ongoing political activities; in small actions, such as this afternoon pulling a couple of dollars out of the wallet and tossing it down when the person in front of us at the check-out line suddenly realized she is two dollars short of what she needs to buy necessities; and in public discussions such as this, which hope to inspire or prod to thought perhaps one or three people who had never considered this before -- and know better than to have any greater ambitions than inspiring or prodding just a few, because sometimes a few are enough.

    For myself, I know there are already many ways in which my work will be remembered, long after my name has been forgotten, even if I never write or say another word, assuming there is a tomorrow.

    And assuming enough people stop indulging in our community the self-indulgent posers and phoneys who feel that they can cling to ignorance about history, science, scholarship, art, philosophy, etc. while the community protects them cost-free from every negative consequence such ignorance might bring them.
    Last edited by magic-rhyme; 02-25-2014 at 07:50 PM.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West Jordan
    Posts
    5,273
    Blog Entries
    41
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0
    While it was not my intention for there to be a conclusion drawn along the lines of 'never will change', I can see how one might see that in my posting. My intent, rather than to spread nihilism, was to rather promote the call-to-arms approach.

    So long as evil exists in the hearts of humans, the sorts of things I described as opposing such enlightened activities will perpetuate and continue, despite best efforts. However, that is not in any way to indicate that those best efforts should not be made. I turn to the words of another, words I do not think I could better for this instance:

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Lions -- Hub
    Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love... true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.
    Neither should one wait upon or even require a world environment which is positively or even neutrally disposed towards the cultural artifacts which one desires to leave behind. I do not intend to imply that as your intent, but as a general admonition.

    Perhaps I should even borrow and say...:

    Quote Originally Posted by The True Geek's Oath
    In brightest day, in darkest night,
    No ignorance shall escape my sight.
    Let those who worship nihilistic might,
    Beware my power, the True Geeks light!!!

    Some lights shine brightest in the dark.



    ^^
    nijineko the gm: AG16, CoS. nijineko the player: AtG, RttToH; . The Journal of Tala'elowar Kiyiik! .
    CrystalBallLite: the best dice roller on the planet! . nijineko the archivist: the 3.x archive

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Norman
    Posts
    197
    Downloads
    29
    Uploads
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nijineko View Post
    My intent, rather than to spread nihilism, was to rather promote the call-to-arms approach.
    So you meant to join in with me at lighting many candles against the darkness in general (albeit perhaps not by using tights & masks in superhero games as one of the hills upon which to stand, if I may be forgiven for mixing my metaphors)? I apologize for not recognizing that.

    To be blunt, the most common response I have encountered in most online gaming forums and in the chatroom here has been to blow out the candle I am holding -- because in the dark, no one can see the other person's alleged flaws or willful ignorances or low self-esteem.

    A professor I once knew said that too many modern Americans genuinely believe that lighting a candle to drive away the darkness is a privilege only of the "beautiful people" and believe that by lighting a candle they arrogantly deny the rights of the intellectually and/or spiritually ugly to remain in a darkness which makes everyone else appear to be no less ugly of mind and/or spirit than they are.

    He then added that lighting a candle is a way to remind people that no one is ugly -- unless by choice, and if they insist upon being ugly, eventually we must respect that choice and stand back to let them suffer the terrible consequences for insistently choosing to be ugly.

    To bring this back to the original discussion, those who decry tights and masks (and belittle all who appreciate tights and masks) out of a thoughtless reaction against something they smugly don't bother to understand have made that choice to be "intellectually ugly", and I regret that current geek society exhausts us by trying to force all of us to protect these people from the consequences of their choice to be "intellectually ugly" about the matter.

    (Obviously, I am not referring to those who speak out against tights and/or masks after genuine thought about it, such as some of the anti-tights superhero comic book writers, or those who dislike them because of personal aesthetics.)

    Quote Originally Posted by nijineko View Post
    Neither should one wait upon or even require a world environment which is positively or even neutrally disposed towards the cultural artifacts which one desires to leave behind. I do not intend to imply that as your intent, but as a general admonition.
    I concur.

    But one artifact I would love to leave behind is a better world environment. I'd like to do my part to re-create a geek environment which is positively disposed once again towards thoughtfulness, research, intellectual integrity, historical awareness, learning and education and then more learning and more education -- and which must, by definition, therefore have no place in it for people who persist in being aggressively and self-pityingly hostile against the notion such thoughtfulness, learning, etc.
    Last edited by magic-rhyme; 02-25-2014 at 07:58 PM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Corona
    Posts
    4
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0
    In my eyes Supers campaigns offer one key thing that no other setting type can call their own (for complete universes): They mix many genres of fiction in the origin stories of the heroes, yet find a way to make it work, and make it their own. THAT is what I see as key to my enjoyment of the Genre. Nowhere else can you find aliens fighting mystics and have a plot that makes a lick of sense. No where else can fantasy and sci-fi tropes coexist. THIS is to me what makes Supers enjoyable. It's the one environment where mixing genres can be done well.

    Ignoring moral depth, as a writer, is a major problem that supers universes have dealt with by antiheroes... but do we really need antiheroes, or do we need more complex moral choices and consequences for heroes, better villain origins, etc that prove that such a moral depth exists in comics?

    Do we really need capes and tights, or are they just an aesthetic choice for heroes that hearkens back to an age where morality meant something different, and athletics was bound by those rules?

    Do we really need the superhero genre to be the only bastion of mixed genres that can do it well, or should other writers who wish to mix genres just throw out their preconceptions on how it works or doesn't, and actually try to figure out what does and doesn't work?

    In the end, the answers to these questions will be different for you and I, I feel. I mainly like supers stuff for the variety of things it allows within it, and how they fit together. You seem to love the idealism, but I am a bit more jaded on that front. I don't think idealism and hope can coexist with the real world as much as many comic universes allow it to coexist with their settings, and instead of rallying against that and trying to give myself hope for human nature using comics, I ask instead for the option of having a dismal universe to read about... which is why I enjoyed Neuromancer, World of Darkness, Lovecraft's Mythos, and Dark Sun so much, Why I get a laugh out of the fact batman's sending so many people to such a terrible place in the comics, and so on. It's just how I am. I see dismal and I love it, I enjoy laughing at the problems of fictional people.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •