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  Click here to go to the first special guest post in this thread.   Thread: How did it happen?

  1. #16
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    Prefer not to see ads?
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    Another idea, but maybe it is a stupid one : Would it be worthwhile to make Supers! an OGL? So that third parties could create their own material for the games.
    However, I don't know if you have to pay something for putting the WotC licence page at the end of the corebook. Though I don't think so.
    Or maybe Supers is already a kind of OGL and I don't know yet about it?
    Sorry for my English, but it's not my primary language.

  2. #17
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    It's a bit late to put an OGL in the current (C7) book. However, I could add it to the LULU one, or to a hypothetical second edition. I am pretty free n'easy with people wanting to do stuff with/for Supers! already.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W View Post
    How come Icons got nominated for loads of awards and Supers! is unknown?
    Honestly?

    Because SUPERS! is undersupported and until recently had only one product.

    ICONS is loosely attached to FATE so it has the attention of that community as well.

    From many peoples' perceptions, SUPERS! is more beer & pretzels and so it's easily dismissed even though SUPERS! is a superior game in many ways, especially since it lacks random character creation.

    SUPERS! desperately needs support or as we've discovered it will continue to go unnoticed.

    This is the same problem occurs with BoL. It's an indie title.

    >>ReaperWolf

  4. #19
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    Thumbs down

    If I were targeting a share of the Icons market, I'd go market Supers as the less expensive, high quality alternaive to Icons (which is sort of what it is). Its strength lies in the pick up and play capability plus the extreme flexibility of the rules. It's a simple system that plays fast. It does have that super heroic feel. I think the way to cut into the Icons audience is (1) to produce significantly cheaper product (which means I should slash 'Bad Sports' to 1.99 (what do you think, Rus?)), and (2) a 2nd edition that adds Fate-like elements (Karma or something like it) and (3) guidance/options for campaign play. I'd also expand the Supersville setting with supplements, bad guy groups npcs and so on. I think you do have plenty of talent right here in this site. It's just a matter of everyone working around their day jobs. I can write plenty for example, but I need editing support and art work (Rus is just one guy, and he has a ton of things going).

  5. #20
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    Karma Dice...

    Quote Originally Posted by honestiago View Post
    (2) a 2nd edition that adds Fate-like elements (Karma or something like it)
    I happily donate the following from my own campaign:

    Drama Die
    SUPERS! characters are not your run of the mill personas. Comic books are all about the impossible being achieved by skill, courage, and boatloads of luck. As it stands now, character actions are limited by their die pools, i.e. rolling 3D can only yield a roll of up to an 18 or lower depending upon the type of action and the power of a character, see page 42 of the SUPERS! rulebook.
    To make the impossible possible the following rule may be implemented: the Drama Die.
    This is a special die easily distinguished from the other dice by color, size, or pattern. So a pool of 5D will consist of 4 ordinary dice and 1 Drama Die.
    When the Drama Die is rolled the numbers 1 and 6 have special significance but on a roll of 2-5 the die is counted normally.
    On a roll of 1 the Drama Die may indicate Disaster Strikes! but only if the dice roll is a failure. Any sort of short-term setback, complication, or other dramatic botch, blunder, or fumble is possible resulting in the character sustaining 1 point of damage, being stunned for a round, or otherwise suffering a brief but noteworthy calamity. If the roll is a success there is no further effect although the Judge is free to narrate how the character suffers a close call.
    On a roll of 6 the Drama Die explodes upwards yielding a number greater than 6. The die is rerolled and the new roll is added to 6 to determine the die roll. Successive rolls of 6 yield other rerolls until a number other than 6 is rolled.

    KARMA DICE
    All references to Competency Dice should be changed to Karma Dice for reasons too many to list here. Karma Dice comprise a character’s Karma Pool.
    All SUPERS! Player characters begin with 1 Karma Die in their Karma Pool. This is refreshed automatically between adventures but can be earned through good roleplay, playing up a motivation or Flaw, or for any reason the Judge feels warrants an immediate in-game reward.
    A character’s Karma Pool may be increased with Advancements just like any other Resistance, Aptitude, or Power.
    Karma Dice may be included in any rolled action the character attempts and like Drama Dice, Karma Dice explode on a roll of 6 but never trigger Disaster Strikes! results.
    Karma Dice must be spent before an action roll unless the Judge rules otherwise.
    Karma Dice may also be spent to activate an Advantage without first having to activate a Disadvantage.
    Karma Dice may also be spent for a hunch or clue to a current mystery and they may also be spent to purchase a one-time short-term lucky break when characters are desperate.
    A player spending a Karma Die may also take temporary narrative control of a scene to add in a few desired elements to the story with the Judge’s permission of course.
    Note! Karma Dice in excess of a character’s pool are lost between adventures.

    Edge Dice
    Bonus dice for good descriptions, tactical advantages, circumstantial modifiers, Judge whim, etc.
    These can be awarded on a case for case basis if a player distinguishes him or herself in play and justifies an award.
    Generally the number of Edge Dice applying to any given situation should not exceed 2D except under the most extraordinary of circumstances.
    Edge Dice are one-time bonuses to a dice roll and cannot be saved or given away.
    Unlike Karma Dice and the Drama Die, Edge Dice do not explode on a roll of 6 but they can allow a character to exceed the normal dice roll maximum stipulated on page 42 of the SUPERS! rulebook.

    >>ReaperWolf

  6. #21
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    Sweet! I like all of these options, Reaper Wolf. Consider them stolen for my own games, even if they don't make it into a 2nd Edition.

    BTW, I enthusiastically contribute my own humble talents, such as they are, to Simon, and the rest of you, in any way that might be helpful to crafting a 2nd edition (or to building a following around the existing edition). I'm a pretty good play-tester, I think, and have some experience as an editor. I'm also a decent writer, and I'm brimming with enthusiasm.

    I do detect a danger here, and that is lack of coordination. If Supers! is going to be developed and promoted in an effective fashion, it needs to be done in concert. As the game creator, Simon should probably be making executive decisions about how new rules are going to be presented. If Simon is approving Dustland's values for material strength, for example, then those should probably be the official values. I don't think it serves the game well to have 3 different writers presenting 3 different ways of handling the same thing. That's confusing to the consumer.

    If Simon wants this sort of feedback, I think it would be great for those of us with an obvious passion for the game to form a 2nd Edition Playtest Group that debates and discusses rules additions as a means of helping Simon make final decisions regarding what those new rules might look like.

    I'm also not certain that an open forum is the best place to be discussing such things, should the project become official.

    I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself, and I hope, Simon, that you don't take any of this as an imposition. I'm just excited by the possibilities and eager to help.

    Best,

    Dragonfly

  7. #22
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    That sounds reasonable. For myself, I'd like to produce more silver age stuff. That's the era I know from a reader's standpoint. I'd like to produce a "Complete guide to..." for each zone in Coastal City, as well, but all of this is time permitting, of course.

  8. #23
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    I'm going to be the voice of dissension here. I honestly don't feel Supers! should try, in any way, shape or form, to emulate or appeal to fans of ICONS. ICONS was created by the author of M&M as a rules lite alternative to it. It has a die hard fanbase made of people who didn't like M&M. Emulating it by adding stuff similar to what is in ICONS isn't going to attract people away from that game, and will only make people think Supers! is just trying to copy it.

    That doesn't mean providing such additions as rules options would hurt. BASH UE has an entire chapter devoted to rules options people could use if they didn't like the base mechanic. It also doesn't invalidate material all ready out (and thus making no need to update current products to add in such new material)

    What Supers! needs to do is attract people who don't like the crunch of M&M, but don't find BASH/G Core/ICONS appealing as rules light alternatives. That, imho, is Supers! market, and who should be targeted.

    If a second/revised edition is going to be made, I think it would need a better layout, possibly more clarifications/examples, and possibly a few more powers added in. For instance, there isn't one to cover a Deflection/Reflection power. I'm going to work one up for The Triad, because the NPC hero who appears in one of the adventure seeds has this power. I'd also like to see more complications/boosts added in. Anything else should be purely optional though. Adding a whole bunch of new rules would be a turn off for me, and I know I'm not the only person who would feel that way. Options, yes. New rules, no thanks
    The Soultaker Studios Blog: http://soultakerstudios.blogspot.com/

  9. #24
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    Here's an interesting thread that sprung up on RPGNet

    Why not pop over and have your say...

    ---------- Post added at 06:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by urbwar View Post
    If a second/revised edition is going to be made, I think it would need a better layout,
    I like the layout. But I do agree on more examples and so on. I also agree it doesn't need more rules - just more options. Perhaps a new thread is called for...

  10. #25
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    Looks like it's time for a random character generator Simon

  11. #26
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    I don't agree with urb that porting some things that work from other systems is necessarily a bad thing. You can ape certain aspects without telegraphing them. Icons motivations are just like Supers ads-disads with regard to flavor. He's right about missing powers, however, and not repackaging to the point of losing the system's charm.

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