D&D plus Pathfinder

[DMMike]

As I'm looking for a 3rd Ed game, someone mentions to me that I should look for Pathfinder as well, since they're so similar. And I'm totally in agreement, except I'm not about to go buy Pathfinder Core Rules nor a Monster-variety-book.

I figure that it shouldn't be too hard to field Pathfinder (PF) characters in a D&D game, or use a D&D character in a Pathfinder game, since I've been blending 3.0 with 3.5 ever since they felt the need to print a whole new series of books.

So the only obvious difference, to me, is the Combat Maneuver Bonus. And the Classes seem to have more power (and starting hit points) in PF.

Are there other differences I should worry about? What's a good way to handle these?

[Skunkape]

You should probably go get the Pathfinder Conversion Guide, still a free PDF as far as I know and then you'll know what needs to be changed accordingly.

You'll find it here.

[MortonStromgal]

You should look at the PRD http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ Paizo is not forcing you to buy any of it unless you want a physical book or pdf. There is also the wiki for the official setting http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Pathfinder_Wiki
There are a ton of minor changes to feats and spells in pathfinder, that is the big difference between 3.5 and Pathfinder. The hit dice, racial changes and more bonuses options are actually pretty minor when compared with how things like toughness and polymorph now work.

[DMMike]

What!? They took out Track???

All I'm seeing is that Pathfinder classes are more powerful - they get higher ability scores, more class features, more feats, unlimited zero level spells, and casters have more HP than commoners...

Maybe treat Pathfinder levels as worth 1.5 D&D levels?

[MortonStromgal]

I would say most have some sort of boost (druid being the exception) though really the martial class boost just lets them keep up with the casters longer. If someone wants to play a Pathfinder Fighter and you have a 3.5 Wizard I wouldn't bother with any kind of adjustment. I think putting a 3.5 Monk with a Pathfinder Wizard though may be a challenge to let the Monk be awesome. Personally I would just uses the 3.5 classes an add/replace classes with Pathfinder variants that I want to (Fighter, Monk, and Sorcerer come to mind + all the APG classes) Then look crappy 3.5 feats (like toughness) and use the Pathfinder version. The only problem with this method is you wont be able to use Heroforge or other character builders without some custom work. Also if a player is abusing a spell or feat look at the Pathfinder version to see if they fixed it and consider using that version instead.

[DMMike]

The conversion guide was a little disappointing - it made lots of references to the Core Rulebook that I don't have. Still, a decent overview of how classes got changed and skills changed.

I'm seeing two ways to blend the two systems:

- Let 3.5 characters add powers to catch up with Pathfinder characters or
- Require Pathfinder characters to use Feat slots to buy powers that 3.5 characters don't have

And forget the unlimited 0-level spells: dictators would quickly find a way to turn them into magic-mills. Or worse yet: 4th Ed characters.

[Skunkape]

The unlimited 0-level spells don't give you that much of a bonus, for the most part, they're not powerful enough to unbalance combat, and their level of utility is limited as well. Most importantly, while the Wizard class knows ever single 0-level spell available, he can still only cast a limited number of them a day, granted he can cast that limited number as often as he wants, he's still limited.

[MortonStromgal]

The only bad/wrong 0 level spell is heal minor which doesn't exist in pathfinder (for good reason). The rest just mean that your wizard will spam ray of frost rather than pulling a crossbow. Its not that big of a deal once your past 4th level (and arguable its only unlimited ammo) unless your big into the whole AD&D wizard uses a crossbow thing.

[DMMike]

That one looks like a DM line to be drawn: when a player says, "what, this quest item doesn't need to be completed for two more days? Well, then I spend those two days casting Acid Splash until that mountain there looks just like me," the DM needs to step in.

On the other hand, giving casters an unlimited use of magic is consistent with the other modifications in PF. More class powers, more HP (at least for casters), higher ability scores, and more feats - the theme is obviously More More More.

So have either of you noticed if the bad guys got buffs to match?

[knottyprof]

I remember reading somewhere that if you want to use a monster from the PF Bestiary in a 3.5 game to add 1 to its CR.

I DM a D&D 3.5 game and use the pathfinder feat progression and players can choose to use the pathfinder version of a feat if it exists with the same name (Toughness is actually almost useful in this respect while I have not made up my mind about Power Attack yet). I also let PC spell casters use a d6 for hit points instead of a d4 (always thought it was rediculous to use a d4 for hit points).

I also am a bit conflicted about allowing characters unlimited 0-level spells but found the cap of 4 or 6 a bit too limiting at higher levels so I house ruled that casters can cast their level +2 0-level spells per day.

We have talked about the use of the Pathfinder special combat options (using CMB and CMD) and for now have opted not to follow suite with it, but will stick with the opposed rolls for now.

I have started playing in a pathfinder game as well and do like the rules just as much as the D&D 3.X rules. I have never played 4th edition D&D and really have no plans on doing so in the foreseeable future.

[MortonStromgal]

Well, then I spend those two days casting Acid Splash until that mountain there looks just like me,"

I think its going to take more than 2 days, a shovel does almost as much damage as acid splash.

[Skunkape]

The Pathfinder versions of monsters work fine in my experience!

[DMMike]

On a related note: it's not necessarily wrong to add more feats and class powers to the base classes of Pathfinder, but it is more complex! Have you noticed that newbs (or vets!) get overwhelmed by their character sheets sooner, with more features hitting their characters earlier than in D&D?

[Skunkape]

On a related note: it's not necessarily wrong to add more feats and class powers to the base classes of Pathfinder, but it is more complex! Have you noticed that newbs (or vets!) get overwhelmed by their character sheets sooner, with more features hitting their characters earlier than in D&D?

Haven't noticed it personally yet, but none of our characters have reached beyond 5th level in any game I've played so we still have a while I think! But I have noticed that there is a whole lot more space taken up by the Feats/Class powers section on my current character.

[MortonStromgal]

On a related note: it's not necessarily wrong to add more feats and class powers to the base classes of Pathfinder, but it is more complex! Have you noticed that newbs (or vets!) get overwhelmed by their character sheets sooner, with more features hitting their characters earlier than in D&D?

I'm expecting this to happen but so far its been a non-issue. Most of the adventure paths stop well before level 20 to so it may be less of an issue than I would expect.