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Thread: Lemme run this by you guys for a minute. (mod to DnD level-up system)

  1. #1
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    Lemme run this by you guys for a minute. (mod to DnD level-up system)

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    Alright. Basically, take the standard class system (and level up system), and do this; rather than get everything in stages (once a certain amount of exp is obtained), use exp to buy the individual things. Basically everything on the character sheet would be bought except ability scores; feats, BAB, hit dice, class-specific abilities, saves, skill points, you name it. The costs of everything would be scaled so that characters would be about equal to their standard-system counterparts. Also, yes, someone would be able to buy things normally above their level; however, they'd have to trade that for something they'd normally have at that level. Like, say, saves or hit dice.

    In order to make this properly, I'm going to need some help. The first real idea I have of doing this is finding as many class creation systems as possible and strip-mining them for an idea of how to price everything. Right now, the only one I can find is this. Anyone wanna give some assistance, or any ideas they may have? I'd like people to reserve judgement on "This sucks!" statements until after this actually gets tested, if you don't mind. Thanks for any suggestions!

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    i don't have any good class creation systems, but i offer to be a tester of your new system if you get it together and working.

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    Dude, you just invented the skill based system. That is how things like Hero and GURPS work.

    Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames.
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    They had this same kind of system in the 2ND edition skills and options books to my recollection. There was also an on-line engine (that is now defunct I believe) shortly after 3e came out. I believe it used this:
    http://members.multimania.co.uk/nite...sGenerator.pdf as a base and extrapolated beyond. I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to break it down into a ramped experience point buy system.
    Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.


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    Even if similar to skill based sytems, this would be very different from them. Especially when it comes to familiarity and game mechanics. You could easily get a group of D&D guys into this before they would jump ship to a lesser system.
    Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.


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    Different system. I hardly consider D&D the best system, and I play it.

    Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames.
    My favorite game console is a table and chairs.
    The Olde Phoenix Inn

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    You know the old saying, you say 'patota' I say it correctly.
    Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.


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    Rab's got the right idea. I'm wanting this to be something for the versatility/customization lovers who don't want to switch to an entirely separate system. Ideally, this will be balanced enough to be usable in a party that has standard characters as well. I just hope that it's not going to be too easily abused by game-breakers.

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    That system hasn't been invented yet. I'm not holding my breath either.

    Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames.
    My favorite game console is a table and chairs.
    The Olde Phoenix Inn

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    You know, the more I have been reading the StarWars Saga system, the more I see it was a damn good system. It uses talent trees which is similar to what you are suggesting. I personally feel it should have been the next system for 4e but instead, we got 4e in all its glory. :P

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    By all accounts, Saga was meant as a test run for ideas moving toward 4e. Some things were thrown out due to playability issues and others due to the intended future direction the top brass sought. It is like D20 Modern was a transition and testing phase for other ideas after 3e. Unfortunately, sometimes the fixes and grand money making schemes of the company make the end result less rather than better.

    The only real problem I see, is accurately 'pricing' the various abilities. Many abilities are more powerful and sought after over others. You almost need broad categories for the characters to start with, like that of D20 Modern. That way it is easier for say a fast Hero to buy evasion or a tough hero to buy damage reduction. I think it would take some testing to properly price abilities and get away from classes. Maybe run through some free-for-all sessions to see which things rise to the top.
    Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.


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    Mutants & Masterminds. D20 skill system in which all the factors are bought with power points not levels. Now, its a superhero game, but if you are looking to break down D&D into a skill based system, there is your model all neatly tied with a bow. They are into the sercod edition which tells me that they have already worked some of the kinks out of it.

    Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames.
    My favorite game console is a table and chairs.
    The Olde Phoenix Inn

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    Not all heroes are created equal. There is a built in fail with power points. The powers are unequally leveled. The M&M system can create horrible unbalance. The D20 type system used in M&M 2e is over simplified. It destroys the crunch and comfort of the original, putting too much into the hands of some knotheaded GM with a flair for tights.
    (My opinion of course, feel free to actually play it and see what you think) Some of it could be helpful, but it isn't all worked out that way and packaged up so neatly. I think it would be harder to incorporate classed and unclassed heroes in one game with their model.
    Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.


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    I'm not going to argue with that as I have not played the system. However, it is likely worth the examination if you are trying for a skill based D&D simply for the fact they did go there.

    A little piece of advice given me by Bob Aspirin many a decade ago. If you are looking to write a given thing, look at how other people have done it. Even the bad examples have something to teach you.

    So, yes, look at M&M, even if as a bad example.

    Rabkala I'm curious to know specific examples you can point me at, but I don't wish to derail Aleucard's thread. PM me or start another thread.

    Aleucard, in plain speaking I don't want to discourage you. But I would strongly suggest a study of other skill systems to find the balance points therein. Hell, if you can make a skill based fantasy d20 work I'll line up to get some. I like the idea. Good game systems are hard work, They involve lots of checking, rechecking, play testing, and adjustments when the inevitable problems crop up. Be ready to toss anything out or bring new ideas in. First thing, make hamburger with all the D&D sacred cows.

    To Wit: The back of the Hero 5th Edition book goes into how the system works. How to modify it and create new powers. That would likely be worth your time if only for the basic concepts.

    Garry AKA --Phoenix-- Rising above the Flames.
    My favorite game console is a table and chairs.
    The Olde Phoenix Inn

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    You throw up straw dogs and paper tigers to desperately prove something, then have the audacity to demand proof when they are knocked down? The game doesn't carry the d20 license, maybe that should tell you something. Power flaws and personal weaknesses can be seriously broken. Skills are over priced when compared to powers. Not all powers are properly balanced. People can deliberately neglect certain aspects to easily min - max a character into ridiculous one trick ponies to break games.


    As a great friend told me, "How vain it is to sit down to write, when you have not stood up to live."
    Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.


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