Are Level Adjustments Worth It?

[Zugh]

A group of adventurers love a heavy-hitter. The Barbarian is the heaviest hitter of them all. For this job, the Ogre has it made. High Strength and Constitution, a base speed of 40, and a natural armor bonus of +5. Although it has a -4 to both Int. and Cha., the Barbarian has no use for them. It also takes a -2 to Dex, but the natural aromor makes up for it.

When it comes to being a Barbarian, the Ogre outclasses the Half-Orc in almost every way. But, is it really worth it?

The Ogre has a Level Adjustment of +2, which could hold him back in a group of Adventurers. He would have less skills than a Half-Orc Barbarian would. If a group of adventurers was a level 8 group, the Ogre woyuld be behind them, at level 6.

Personally, I think that the Ogre is worth the Level Adjustment. What do you think? Would you prefer to have a lower-leveled, incredibly powerful Ogre Barbarian, or a higher leveled, not-so-powerful Half-Orc Barbarian?

[The Magic King]

The ogre is superior, if it takes him longer to level so be it. He will eventually level up and be the most powerful. He could even strike out alone for a bit and grab substantial amounts of experience by fighting alone whilst the others are busy in town or something. The real issue is how would society accept an ogre, a race unanimously hated and feared by the "civilized" and "goodly" races.

[d-_-b]

In a party of 8th level characters an ogre would not be lvl 6, he would be level 2!

Ogre's begin play with four levels of giant, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1.

the 4 HD are added to the level adjustment of +2 to a total adjustment of +6

Not worth it IMO -an 8th level haft-orc barbarian would own a 2nd level ogre barbarian!

[The Magic King]

Oh right I forgot about the HD being added for the ECL. Never mind, screw ogres, that is why they always attack the party they are just trying to level up.

[Zugh]

Oh yeah. I hate the HD

[cigamnogard]

Buy the level adjustment away by using the Unearthed Arcana book.
One of my favorite characters was an Ogre crusader!

[TheYeti1775]

Use Dawnforge where Ogres are a Playable race.
It's method for all races are allowing them to build up all their racial abilities over 10 Levels.

[WhiteTiger]

I don't see why you would have to take the 4 levels of giant and the associated hit dice and the ecl hit. Just remove the racial hit dice, racial skills & racial feats..

just apply the stat boosts, dark vision, large size, the weapon proficiencies, natural armor bonus and then apply the +2 level adjustment

[michael]

This conversation is why I prefer a points-based system.

[The Magic King]

I don't see why you would have to take the 4 levels of giant and the associated hit dice and the ecl hit. Just remove the racial hit dice, racial skills & racial feats..

just apply the stat boosts, dark vision, large size, the weapon proficiencies, natural armor bonus and then apply the +2 level adjustment

I agree, and this is up to the DM, however in the rules given in the book it is this foolish set up.

[Farcaster]

I don't see why you would have to take the 4 levels of giant and the associated hit dice and the ecl hit. Just remove the racial hit dice, racial skills & racial feats..

just apply the stat boosts, dark vision, large size, the weapon proficiencies, natural armor bonus and then apply the +2 level adjustment

Were I his DM, I'd probably have him buy at least one level of the racial HD, as would be allowed under the Savage Specifies supplement -- I think that was the name of it. You might also look at the Ogre race presented in Fantasy Craft and see if that might work for you. It's d20 OGL, so it should be fairly adaptable. They have some odd restrictions on skills though that your GM would need to adjust or eliminate.

[cigamnogard]

All well and good but the Ogre is a powerful PC and 4 levels plus +2 is fair.
I have played one.

[d-_-b]

I don't see why you would have to take the 4 levels of giant and the associated hit dice and the ecl hit. Just remove the racial hit dice, racial skills & racial feats..

Under the standard rules if you choose to play an Ogre you don't "take" 4 levels of giant. The 4 levels are imposed on you -the Ogre comes with them. I for one think this is fair. Considering the high ability increases the Ogre has over normal playable races there has to be a drawback. If not the 4 hit dice then a higher level adjustment. He still gain +3 base attack bonus (which his massive strength more than makes up for) and decent saves, skill points, feats for his 4 levels of giant. Ok, so he looses an average of 2 hp per level of giant compared to the barbarian -so what! The biggest downside is that he misses out a lot of class abilities compared to a human of the same character level.

[cigamnogard]

Bingo!

[michael]

I believe the ogre gets reach too...