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Undead, constructs, and critical hits
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Thread: Undead, constructs, and critical hits

  1. #1
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    Cool Undead, constructs, and critical hits

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    So I have heard people talking about how sneak attack now works on constructs and undead. However, I saw nothing in the brief section about sneak attacks that specifies what creatures the ability does or does not work on.

    Also, if what I have heard is true and rogues really can sneak attack these kinds of creatures, then what does that mean for critical hits? Can you now get crits on undead, for example?

    If anyone has any info, please let me know what page you found it on; I'm still very unfamiliar with the core rulebook.

  2. #2
    Arch Lich Thoth-Amon is offline Cursed by the Gods
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    I've never allowed sneak attacks and always allowed critical hits/misses against the Undead... Damn any rules to the contrary!

    I know, not helpful. I've known so many GM's that prefer their own versions of these rules, all being dependent on their own unique perspectives of the game and it's classes, etc.

    To me, it really is about how you define the undead-or nonliving-abilities, and its ability to sense out the living.
    Thoth-Amon, Lord of the Underworld and the Undead
    Once you know what the magician knows, it's not magick. It's a 'tool of Creation'. -Archmagus H.H.
    The first step to expanding your reality is to discard the tendency to exclude things from possibility. - Meridjet

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    Immunity to sneak attack is not determined by type or subtype but description of the creature. Undead are not immune to critical hits or sneak attacks. The sample bestiary did not cover constructs so I don't have that information. Nor does the sneak attack say any limitations. However, some rogue talents require you use them on living targets.

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    constructs are no longer immune to crits in pathfinder. Yet more surpises that I am finding.

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    I believe incorporeal undead (Ghosts) will still be immune to crits but corporeal undead like skeletons, zombies, ghouls, Vampires, etc will not be immune to crits but then I think that we'll probably still have to read up on each individual monster.

    I think Elementals are now immune to crits.

    In regards to constructs, I believe Pathfinder allows for a "chink in the armor" ruling.


    "but hey, that's just my opinion... I could be wrong!" - Dennis Miller

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    I actually just checked out the SRD and here is what I have discovered thus far. All creatures are subject to sneak attacks and critical hits except:

    -oozes
    -elementals
    -swarms
    -incorporeal creatures (unless attacker uses a ghost touch weapon)

    So far, these seem to be the only exceptions. I have only given it a cursory overview though, so there may be more.

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    I do not wish to derail the purpose of this thread, however, I've always been curious as too why so many people wish the sneak attack to work on undead and constructs. As a player I've never had an issue with this, and rogues have been my favorite class since 2E. So, if anyone wouldn't mind providing me their logical perspective on this, it'd be much appreciated. A thought does occur to me, using the perspective that it makes the Rogue useless against TOO MANY monsters is not a valid perspective to my way of thinking. I need more than a 'why can't it do that' point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dytrrnikl View Post
    I do not wish to derail the purpose of this thread, however, I've always been curious as too why so many people wish the sneak attack to work on undead and constructs. As a player I've never had an issue with this, and rogues have been my favorite class since 2E. So, if anyone wouldn't mind providing me their logical perspective on this, it'd be much appreciated. A thought does occur to me, using the perspective that it makes the Rogue useless against TOO MANY monsters is not a valid perspective to my way of thinking. I need more than a 'why can't it do that' point of view.
    Well most corporeal undead have a weak spot or vulnerability. Heart for vampires, brain for zombies, etc. Why can't the rogue use those to his advantage?

    I recently ran my group through a zombie scenario and the rogue was visibly miffed at how little she was helping. Add to that the fact that she's a Halfling and her weapons mean diddly. She will be happy to hear that her sneak attack can come in handy against my favorite monster subtype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Berry View Post
    I actually just checked out the SRD and here is what I have discovered thus far. All creatures are subject to sneak attacks and critical hits except:

    -oozes
    -elementals
    -swarms
    -incorporeal creatures (unless attacker uses a ghost touch weapon)

    So far, these seem to be the only exceptions. I have only given it a cursory overview though, so there may be more.
    Precisely.

    "Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."

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    Makes sense to me. If you can reach a vital spot/join/etc. of a creature you should be able to do additional damage if you crit or sneak attack it.
    //TODO: Create kewl sig...

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    If you dont mine me asken

    If you dont mine me asken what is pathfinder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Dead View Post
    If you dont mine me asken what is pathfinder?
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

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    Pathfinder is a revision of the D&D 3.5 rules by Paizo. It cleans up the system and streamlines it, while avoiding the extreme and (in my opinion) disappointing changes in 4th edition. I have now been playing it for over a month now, and I would definitely recommend it! It increases survivability at low levels, gives each class a benefit at every level, and simplifies some of the complications of 3.5, plus all kinds of other improvements that I am still finding out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Berry View Post
    Pathfinder is a revision of the D&D 3.5 rules by Paizo. It cleans up the system and streamlines it, while avoiding the extreme and (in my opinion) disappointing changes in 4th edition. I have now been playing it for over a month now, and I would definitely recommend it! It increases survivability at low levels, gives each class a benefit at every level, and simplifies some of the complications of 3.5, plus all kinds of other improvements that I am still finding out.
    I'll look into it but I don't really change from the original 3.5 books but if it gets rid of some of the confusion I'll use it as a base read up some of the stuff and use it in the 3.5.

    And I could not agree more about 4th ed (IT SUCKS BAD) in my opinion.

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    Thumbs up

    You don't get rid of your 3.5 books...heck we still run 3.5 modules and everything. What Pathfinder does is clean up the rules. Think of D&D 3.7 is basically what they did using the Open Gaming License.

    You can read the SRD for Pathfinder here and you'll see that its nearly identical to 3.5 with just improvements.
    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
    //TODO: Create kewl sig...

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    And also you sneak on all attacks that round not just the first one of the round, which is why TwF is now a good way for a rogue to good, but on the down side ranged sneak attacks are a lot harder to pull off

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