Your definition of trouble is weird, Ice, but I like it. Fear not, though, Tach will be getting into trouble soon enough. Hopefully after he has had the chance to eat breakfast.
Ya know, the recent events in Cloud City are very likely to hit local news. What would ya'll say to a proper "Fox News" style interpretation of it included in my next post?
Okay, all, would like your opinion. The hotel room scene I posted. Is it in the 'this is filth' category or would you say it is pretty tame? I'm trying to get a measure of what's considered acceptable.
The best measuring stick I've found is to ask whether what I've written would appear in a Star Wars movie. If it seems outside the scope of what I'd see on the big screen, then I find another way to "frame" the scene.
As helpful a guide as that is, I notice you don't actually mention an opinion one way or the other DC.
It's an interesting question.
Gibson originally PMed this post to me and asked my opinion, and I suggested he post it and get everybody's opinions, since I'm just one person. Plus, I can think of (I think) three occassions where Fi herself has been naked in Tapestry, so maybe I'm not the best judge. But my prior posts weren't necessarily about 'titillation', and this one kind of is. So - does a 'hot' scene belong in Star Wars? I've heard lots of people say that Princess Leia's metal bikini was one of the hottest things they've seen in the movies. I don't really see it, myself, but there it is, in Return of the Jedi. And what about Padme getting her top slashed in half in Attack of the Clones? Was there any point to that other than to show off those sexy abs? I'd guess there wasn't.
As for Gibson's post, I myself don't actually have a problem with the 'what'... but I'm keenly interested in the 'why'. Why would this girl (an alien girl, but still a girl) jump into bed with the guy who's going to deliver her into slavery? Is she honestly attracted to him? Is she trying to gain his trust, to later escape him in a moment of weakness? Is it in thanks for the meal???
And what about her twin sister? Is she going to just lie there and 'think of England' while the other two get down to business? They're all in the same bed, after all. I don't have answers to any of these questions, but I'd sure like to get some. Gibson, without any spoilers, what's your headspace on this?
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Now I gotta go make a post of my own...
(p.s: Interesting trivia - I was watching RotJ on blu-ray yesterday, and did you guys know there's a tauntaun head on the wall in Jabba's palace? There is, right next to Han's carbonite block! )
I'm afraid the answers I would offer for most of your 'why' questions will have to remain unshared, IJ, for fear of revealing spoilers. But I can honestly say more elements will be exposed, even as soon as the upcoming post. It is not my intent to insert meaningless sex for the character Tach as I would think such a thing is tasteless and boring.
Now I would like to add that I'm quite flattered you do have these questions. It's the kind of story I am going for, one that keeps you guessing and wanting to find out more. But I will answer two questions:
Is it in thanks for the meal???
Is she going to just lie there and 'think of England' while the other two get down to business?
Well that's my burning question answered. But now I picture Lola just plugging her ears and humming loudly to drown out the sex noises. It would have seemed more practical to get two smaller beds (rather than the huge six person one) if that was what was going to happen, but I didn't book their room, so maybe just take it up with the hotel next time. . .
As for my opinion on how acceptable this, I don't really have a problem with what was written, but at the same time, this probably the furthest anyone has taken a post in this regard. That said, even without the nudity and the weird two people making passionate love while a sibling of one the two just lies in the same bed and pretends she's somewhere else, we have crossed some questionable boundaries.
Fi and Tam's long time, on again off again, probably illegal in the countries it was written in relationship comes to mind. Also Reil and Cali's but that borders on legality, so I'll just keep to Fi and Tam. It's been handled maturely and tastefully for it's entire run, and has made for some really compelling story telling, so we've left it alone, and been the better for it. We also had JohnGWolf who wrote a scene where a droid did a striptease for a crowd. Which would be the other side of the argument I guess.
As long as it is being told for a purpose to the story, and not just some really weird fantasy fulfillment that someone felt the need to share with the rest of us then I don't have an issue with it. That said, if it went into more graphic detail, then it would probably cross the line from whatever you would classify what we do, and move out into erotica.
Great thoughts, Ice. And like you, I'm glad to see that there were indeed answers to those questions, 'cause I wasn't sure that there were any. Gibson, since you haven't really fleshed-out the dancing girls as characters yet, I actually thought the whole point of your post was simply for Tach to 'get some'!
That said, we did have to come to General Discussion to get those answers, so maybe there's something to be said for making these other elements apparent within the post itself. Players can tend to take other players' posts at face value (some players even just skim the other posts), so any subtleties or subtext can often fly right out the window. Sometimes, even important details can be missed (like when you initially thought that it was Fi, not Jyll, who had been kidnapped by Muscles).
On the subject of taste and style, Dawncaller was bang-on when he talked about 'framing'. I like that term, because it doesn't mess with a person's content - only the way it's presented. Take, for example, the destruction of Alderaan: unthinkable, heinous crime, right? From one perspective, we should all be falling to our knees and sobbing at that point in the movie. But the event is framed in such a way that our reaction is more one of, "ooooo, you dirty rascals! We're gonna getchoo for that!"
Of course, you mentioned that your post was a lot tamer than the one you originally had in mind, so I guess that that was framing in action. So be it known that you have reached the absolute Outer Limit of adult content in Tapestry... go no farther!
I consciously kept my opinion out of my last post. I wanted to present my initial thoughts and get the conversation going before making any statements of opinion.
First off, I'd like to address the slave girl Leia that I.J. brought up. I too have heard that it's one of the hottest things in the movies, but it just never did it for me. I guess since I've watched it since I was little, in effect "growing up" with Leia, Han, and all the others. It's always kind of been like seeing my sister in a bikini. I have similar feelings about the other slave girls, club goers, and Padme's violent and painful wardrobe malfunction. There's no denying that these elements have been included in the movies as "eye candy," but they're a far cry from overt titillation. It's important to note that the movies are almost all rated PG (in America). The one exception is PG-13 and that was for "sci-fi violence and some intense images." So sexuality in the movies has been kept at a somewhat more "family friendly" level.
With that in mind, there are two points where Tapestry differs from the movies. First, it's written, rather than filmed. There is a marked difference between how the brain takes in information from text and from an image, and that affects how the recipient reacts. In writing, for example, the reader can kind of put blinders on material they choose not to experience, skipping ahead or skimming over what they may find objectionable. By contrast, an image or scene is taken in instantly, and if it's something you don't want to see, you just can't unring that bell. Put another way, think of the institution of NSFW. If your boss happens to look over your shoulder and see an image that he or she has deemed inappropriate for the work place, you're in trouble. But if that same boss happens to see you reading text that, in visual form, would be NSFW, he or she would have to stop and actively read to get the same scandalized effect.
Second, our core audience isn't a "family" audience. Sure, for the sake of public accessibility and in the spirit/flavor of Star Wars, I think it shouldn't stray too far from that line, but we're all fans, we're all compatriots in writing/role playing, and we're all (at least physically) adult. We can handle a little deviation from the norm.
As for the post itself, I agree that this crosses unprecedented lines in Tapestry. It takes things into "PG-13" range, and is too much for my own sensibilities. My initial reaction is if you feel a post needs to be vetted to see if it's allowed, it shouldn't be allowed. That said, I think that so long as such posts are few and far between, continuing to keep framing in mind so things stay tasteful, there shouldn't be a problem. These are my opinions, and I hope that my preemptive explanation shows that it doesn't just come from prudishness (of which I've been accused before), but has had some thought put into it.