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  • Wizards Officially Announces D&D 5e

    Check out this article by Mike Mearls. I think we all pretty new this was coming sooner rather than later. What amazes me is that this news rose to the level of being covered by the NY Times. Impressive!

    What are your thoughts about a new edition? Love it, hate it? Personally, I'm just glad they are keeping the brand alive.
    Comments 39 Comments
    1. Tryp's Avatar
      Tryp -
      They can keep 5th edition. I have also moved on. No one wants to blow hundreds and hundreds of dollars buying all of their unnecessary suppliments every three or four years.

      tesral, sounds like you and I would get along. Technology can be helpful, but in my experience it only disrupts the game overall. Besides, the game is about imagination. Having everything on a display screen for you kind of defeats the purpose. Thats the reason why newer generations don't have any imagination. They don't read and they don't think. They just sit around and absorb.
    1. kirksmithicus's Avatar
      kirksmithicus -
      My hope is that they take all of the things that were cool and fun from each edition and use them to build something totally awesome that ushers in a new golden age of RPG's. However, I fear that what will really happen is that they will unite all of the editions (and players) by taking all of the things sucked from each edition and roll it into one big ball of useless crap that everyone finds offensive.
    1. ironvyper's Avatar
      ironvyper -
      keep your day dreaming.

      The younger generation imagined a connected and digitized world and created it. We changed how business operates world wide, how people talk and connect we changed everything.

      Thats imagination. Seeing something that can be and making it so. Its the older generations with no imagination. Nothing worth a damn was created between 1950 and AOL. And AOL kinda sucked.




      Quote Originally Posted by Tryp View Post
      They can keep 5th edition. I have also moved on. No one wants to blow hundreds and hundreds of dollars buying all of their unnecessary suppliments every three or four years.

      tesral, sounds like you and I would get along. Technology can be helpful, but in my experience it only disrupts the game overall. Besides, the game is about imagination. Having everything on a display screen for you kind of defeats the purpose. Thats the reason why newer generations don't have any imagination. They don't read and they don't think. They just sit around and absorb.
    1. fmitchell's Avatar
      fmitchell -
      Quote Originally Posted by ironvyper View Post
      Its the older generations with no imagination. Nothing worth a damn was created between 1950 and AOL. And AOL kinda sucked.
      Yeah, it's not like those geezers invented the Internet, or web browsers, or personal computers, or hypertext, or pointing devices, or multitasking operating systems, or anything cool.

      And who really needed a polio vaccine, anyway?
    1. DrunkenMonk's Avatar
      DrunkenMonk -
      Quote Originally Posted by ironvyper View Post
      keep your day dreaming.

      The younger generation imagined a connected and digitized world and created it. We changed how business operates world wide, how people talk and connect we changed everything.

      Thats imagination. Seeing something that can be and making it so. Its the older generations with no imagination. Nothing worth a damn was created between 1950 and AOL. And AOL kinda sucked.
      Um, yeah. The older people invented all of this stuff. This post is SO misinformed.

      Tim Berners-Lee pretty much invented the concept of the world wide web. He was born in 1955.
      Dennis Ritchie just died at 70 last year. Pretty much the pioneer behind computer languages.
      Steve Jobs was born in 1955 and spearheaded most of the recent amazing technology.
      Stephen Gary "Woz" Wozniak is 61 years old
      Jeff Pulver invented the Voip technology you were talking about that changes how people communicate in business (he is almost 50)
      Linus Torvolds created the Linux operating system that pretty much chaged how businesses worked and made the small business server affordable. (he is 42)
      Bill Gates, the inventor of Microsoft and 90+ percent of desktop operating systems around the world (56 years old)
      Andy Rubin invented Andriod (Google bought his company and he is now the VP of Mobile at google)

      I guess the younger people would be...
      Larry Page (inventor of Google is sort of young, but still almost 40)
      Mark Zuckerberg at 27 is the only major player under 30 in the development you are talking about.
    1. tesral's Avatar
      tesral -
      All people of my generation, I'm 54. So yes, older people (depending on your reference) have never done anything useful.
    1. Dark's Avatar
      Dark -
      From the limited choice answers from the questions that WoTC has put up it looks like I'm going to save some money yet again not purchasing new books.
    1. ironvyper's Avatar
      ironvyper -
      Quote Originally Posted by fmitchell View Post
      Yeah, it's not like those geezers invented the Internet, or web browsers, or personal computers, or hypertext, or pointing devices, or multitasking operating systems, or anything cool.

      And who really needed a polio vaccine, anyway?
      LOL no you didnt. The internet was invented by the army in the 50's. So unless your at least 80 years old you cant claim squat for that. And then it sat and did nothing important until the mid 90's when at best you can say that gen X created a giant internet bubble full of crap because they had no idea what to actually do with it. This is also the shitty AOL age. Nothing of note was accomplished. If anything that generation did such a bad job with it that the bubble bursting almost killed the entire cyber industry.

      And LOL the polio vaccine was invented 60 years ago. So again unless your 80-90 years old you cant claim any part of that for your generation.

      If anything all the previous few generations have given us is a legacy of the results of public union ran schools. I mean claiming credit for things that happened in the 50's?

      How about this, next time before trying to formulate an argument use one of OUR inventions. Wikidpedia. And actually research what you think you know.

      Assuming that wont get in the way of the navel gazing you call "imagination"

      ---------- Post added at 07:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------

      Quote Originally Posted by tesral View Post
      All people of my generation, I'm 54. So yes, older people (depending on your reference) have never done anything useful.
      Well you did do a fine job voting yourselves rights that are bankrupting the country and turning over being the strongest country in the world to the Chinese. So i suppose thats sort of an accomplishment.
    1. fmitchell's Avatar
      fmitchell -
      Quote Originally Posted by ironvyper View Post
      LOL no you didnt.
      Yes I did. You said "between 1950 and AOL", and I picked out innovations after 1950, admittedly mainly from the 1950s and 1960s. Shifting goalposts much?

      Anyway, I don't see what your screeds have to do with D&D Next, the topic of this thread.
    1. tesral's Avatar
      tesral -
      Quote Originally Posted by ironvyper View Post
      Well you did do a fine job voting yourselves rights that are bankrupting the country and turning over being the strongest country in the world to the Chinese. So i suppose thats sort of an accomplishment.
      Yes, I did. Funny but I don't seem to be benefiting from that. I believe that is called Ad hominem, even poisoning the well. The entire argument based on a hasty generalization...and the previous poster is quite correct, has nothing to do with the topic.
    1. yukonhorror's Avatar
      yukonhorror -
      Quote Originally Posted by tesral View Post
      Yes, I did. Funny but I don't seem to be benefiting from that. I believe that is called Ad hominem, even poisoning the well. The entire argument based on a hasty generalization...and the previous poster is quite correct, has nothing to do with the topic.
      What do you mean? Who invented the internet (and the polio vaccine for that matter) is DIRECTLY tied into the impact of a 5th edition for D&D.

      I just hope 5e doesn't cause another schism like 4e did. I wasn't on any forums or anything like that when 3e (AND 3.5e) came around, so I don't know how much that caused problems arguments, but 4e seemed to cause some serious hate and judgementalism. Hopefully the 3.x devotees are so tired from hating on 4e, they have no energy to hate on 5e, and the 4e lovers are pleasant enough to let the pro-5e be in peace.

      That's not going to happen, but I have always been an idealist.
    1. Zedek's Avatar
      Zedek -
      I couldn't stand 4.o, while reading it I suddenly became enraged and then just tired, and retreated back to the comfortable zones of 3.5.

      Personally, WotC tried to make a new game with 4th edition, rather than an upgrade to the system.

      That being said, I'll definately look into and take some time understanding the new system.
    1. Banshee's Avatar
      Banshee -
      Right on!!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by tesral View Post
      digital tools are nice, but only if open and not required. Video games are video games. This is not a video game. Taking "inspiration from a video game" is not what i would like to see. D&d should remain a fairly free form art of conversation occasional leavened by rolling dice.

      If i want to play video games, i'll do that.

      Digital tools are useful. I use the heck out of my computer preparing for the game. However, making a computer or similar device required would to my thinking violate the spirit of the tabletop. Requiring a particular brand of device? Violation to a whole new level. I was never required to use a "pentel" writing instrument for example. Why should i be required to have an ithing?

      The lack of required hardware is one of the accessible aspect of the game. D&d is a game you can carry in your head.
    1. Banshee's Avatar
      Banshee -
      I started playing D&D on a Cub Scout camping trip in back 1982. Going from not knowing anything about the game to being a devotee of fantasy role playing games took place right there in that initial game session. After that camping trip I used every gift-appropriate occasion to beg any likely gift-giver for something D&D. Whatever money I received (whether from gifts, or from running errands) I spent on D&D products that I hadn't received as gifts. In short, I was obsessed. But it was a good thing.

      As I got older, my friends stated playing AD&D, and so I made the transition. Still too young to ACTUALLY work, I did the same gift-list thing combined with money from other sources and managed to acquire the basics and some additional materials.

      Then 2e came around, and thankfully I was working an after school job. I did less asking for materials and started buying more stuff on my own. It was a good feeling. I'm not going to say I had everything I wanted, but within my expanding group, WE had everything WE wanted or needed to run pretty much whatever we liked in a D&D game. We were fond of Greyhawk, and played in that setting mostly, with the occasional foray into Forgotten Realms just to break up time between the campaigns.

      By the time 3e was introduced, I was admittedly a little pissed off at the prospect of having to buy a whole new set of books, but I was working full time then, and living at home, so it wasn't too big of a deal. Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately, I didn't get very far into amassing my 3e library before they introduced 3.5e. This caused a bit of a rift within the group, as we were seeing for the first time that our GAME was really someone else's BUSINESS. I began collecting books again, but many of my friends stopped, instead either switching to other systems, other games, earlier editions, and even leaving RPGs for video games.

      It seemed that 3.5 was around for a bit, and during that time, my circumstances changed for the better. I landed a stable and lucrative career. I had my own apartment (a place to store my stuff and host the games) and making the rent was easy, even thought I was buying new 3.5 books as they were released and available at the bookstore. My smaller group of gaming friends and I were not entirely happy with 3.5e, but we adapted and came to enjoy it. We found that although it wasn't "pure" "old school D&D" it was very much worth playing, and the changes they'd made worked for us...

      ...And then 4e came out...

      By now I was married. I'd traded the apartment for a house in the suburbs. The demands of life began encroaching on precious gaming time, not just for me, but for the ever-dwindling members of the group. But I couldn't resist the lure of 4e. Was there some new, easier, better system that would improve our game? Was there some secret in this new edition that my group and I would miss out on if we didn't get in on this? If they published new and exiting supplements for this new edition, would they somehow be backwards compatible with 3.5? Likely not. I bought the core 4e books, read through them, and was disappointed. So were all of the members of my group. Although we liked some of the new races and concepts, I never did buy more than five books, and we never did to this date actually play a bonafide 4e game.

      Now that 5e is out, or coming out, whichever it is, I will say that I'm very tempted to repeat this vicious cycle, but I doubt I will. While I get it that WoTC is a business, I think their rush to reinvent the game itself, and their willingness to abandon certain of the elements and settings that initially drew me to the brand will be the reason I don't buy 5e. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, to me the birth of 5e is also the death of all those editions that came before it. It would be almost like getting back with a partner with whom you were in a bad relationship - unwise. You just make a clean break and move on to find a new partner...

      ...and then I found GURPS.

      Sorry, D&D, but you've changed too much. I don't like it and I'm moving on. No hard feelings. Have a nice life.
    1. Mercutio361's Avatar
      Mercutio361 -
      I have to kind of agree with banshee. I started with AD&D way back when in junior high during study hall, and fell in love with it immediately! One thing I've noticed is that players who start with 4e never seem to really pick up the passion that old school pleyers started with and most maintaint throughout their lives. Although for many, it's a good balance that they didn't quite have before without a lot of house-ruling.

      What I am seeing from the playtests though, is with a sleight dabble of 4e tweaking, they're doing a good job of bringing back that old-school feel. And the second playtest adventure really strives to drive some sense of actual roleplay back into the experience. I was quite apprehensive at first, after the 4e escapade, but I'm actually starting to think that D&D Next might just bring the feeling of the game back around to where it started - minus the Thac0 of course (which I admittedly miss sometimes).

      I'm surprisingly hopeful for this new addition and might actually invest a budget into it. I initially bought the 4e core rulebooks, and I ran a single game. I and my group at the time found it quite unsavory and went back to 3.5. So far, I'm loving the playtest. If they actually listen to the feedback from the playtesting, go through and figure out what works in line with their vision of bringing back the original feel of D&D, I think it might be something successful.

      This is going to be an extremely important venture which could make or break not just the brand, but D&D itself. With games like Sword & Sorcery Making a very intuitive strike at their re-rendition of the Original D&D ruleset, and Pathfinder's huge success, this could prove to be an all or nothing deal, and I think they're aware of this.

      4e was a 'Hey, let's make a new edition. People will be excited and spend lots of money!"

      5e is going to be a "Hey, we screwed up. We need to release something that brings back what brought people to D&D 35 years ago and kept them around for just as long."
    1. bauldah's Avatar
      bauldah -
      Quote Originally Posted by cplmac View Post
      I will still continue to run my games using 2E even after this version comes out.

      All hail the Great Thaco!
      THACO!!!!!!!!! roll a nonwepon proficiency check!!!! or maybe a save vs death magic
    1. bauldah's Avatar
      bauldah -
      2nd edition dark sun half giant war/psychoporter that is all.
    1. Darkreaper's Avatar
      Darkreaper -
      I have played every version of D&D since the dawn of time which basically means I am old. As a game,r I fell off the wagon after trying 4.0 and moved to Pathfinder. I think the discussion of what style 5.0 takes in comparison to previous styles is a mistake. Potential players are already lining up to see what side of the fence 5.0 will fall on and then decide if they want to play.

      I believe that WOTC should look at its previous work and determine what worked best in terms of character development. For example I thought magic worked much better in 3.5 but combat for melee types worked best in 4.0. The players would best be suited for this task through playtesting, survey's etc. The idea would then be to create a new game using these ideas and not a hybrid game. Great games always have two things in common, a smooth rules system and great character development. These should be the two overarching goals.

      The "core rules" need to be thoughtful and complete. They should not look like the standard fare that will eventually be supported by other works. Once the core rules are complete WOTC shouldn't rush to sell more advanced rule books. The typical rush of more character classes, advanced tactic guides, more equipment etc just waters down the game. These later books need to be inspired works based on what the players need to see out of these books. I would like to see WOTC really provide the support that players and GMs need to enhance their games and not just hastily made character classes just to publish another $40 text.

      I would like to see WOTC conduct ongoing playtesting and data gathering after the core books are published to determine what they should do next. For example DMs might have an overwhelming need for generators rather than books. Players might have a need for form filled character sheets. Perhaps a book that details an entire town with all the building maps, NPC personalities etc for a GM to flesh out or use stand alone.

      In my humble opinion, WOTC took a chance by changing their rules system and split their gaming community in two allowing Pathfinder to fill the gap. Use that same forward thinking to create a new game that listens to those of us who have these D&D for years and would like to see it rise to prominence once again.
    1. Thorn's Avatar
      Thorn -
      I'll wait and see. Kaewin has been running the play test version of it and it seems alright. He seem to feel they have to do something to keep the game alive.