PDA

View Full Version : No Arcane Spell Failure for Divine Bard/Cleric?



Beaumont Sebos
04-08-2009, 07:19 PM
So, I have a multiclass Level 1 Divine Bard/Level 1 Cleric.

I was a little bummed because I wouldn't be able to use heavy armor without a chance of arcane spell failure for the Bard spells. But I resigned myself to the fact.

But then it occured to me... a Divine Bard casts divine spells, not arcane spells.

Although not specifically stated in the rules for a Divine Bard, it would seem I can use heavy armor without incurring the penalty.

Right?

agoraderek
04-09-2009, 12:52 AM
It's called "Arcane spell failure", not "Divine spell failure". Were I your DM, you'd be good.

kirksmithicus
04-09-2009, 03:36 AM
I don't play 3.x but I'll throw me .02 cents in anyway. It's my understanding that Divine spells are granted by the God/s and not learned. Basically they are more like prayers for assistance than spells, or at least do not require knowledge, skill or anything else to cast, other than faith. The Gods may be fickle, but they do not fail. I would have to agree with you guys.

Sethannon
04-09-2009, 08:33 AM
I'd agree. If I were your DM I would also allow interpret it as Divine Magic without failure possibilities.

DMMike
04-09-2009, 01:09 PM
Depends on what a divine bard is. If the bard is casting "divine" spells, but doing so in the same way an arcane bard does, then there's a spell failure chance since the bard still has to perform to cast the spell. Note that normal bards can already cast Cure spells, but that doesn't mean that they can ignore spell failure chances.

You might petition to go full Cleric, and substitute turning undead for a bard music ability. Or go full bard, and take Armor Proficiency and Still Spell.

Bearfoot_Adam
04-09-2009, 01:36 PM
If the spell is Divine heavy armor is fine.

Beaumont Sebos
04-09-2009, 03:18 PM
Depends on what a divine bard is. If the bard is casting "divine" spells, but doing so in the same way an arcane bard does, then there's a spell failure chance since the bard still has to perform to cast the spell. Note that normal bards can already cast Cure spells, but that doesn't mean that they can ignore spell failure chances.

You might petition to go full Cleric, and substitute turning undead for a bard music ability. Or go full bard, and take Armor Proficiency and Still Spell.

The variant states:

"A divine bard learns and casts spells as a normal bard with some minor exceptions. A divine bard's spells are divine spells, not arcane spells. To learn to cast a spell, a divine bard must have a Wis score (not Cha score) equal to at least 10 + the spell level. All other spellcasting factors, including bonus spells and save DCs, are still determined using the divine bard's Cha score."

It's a bit of both... but I'm leaning toward no arcane spell failure since the spells are specifically divine.

It just seems to me to be too easy of a way to get around not being able to wear heavy armor.

Lucian-Sunaka
04-09-2009, 05:32 PM
Yeah, the divine bard variant is cool. The one thing about it that makes me sad though, is that alot of the cool bardic prestige classes (Sublime Chord, Virtuoso, etc) require arcane casting of a certain level to get in. On the plus side though, the divine bard can use any armor (by my reading of it at least), and can use divine metamagic (the errata of which states it only applies to divine spells)

Speaking of which, that gives me a beautiful idea... Divine Bard + Druid + Green Ear (druid bard hybrid casting class from dragon magazine, 5 levels, interesting stuff) + evasion somehow + 1 level sacred exorcist for turn undead to use divine feats + the remaining levels in Fochlucan Lyrist. Should have a very high caster level on both sides, plenty of bardic musics, and come out a pretty strong build.

Sorry for the rant, when I get going sometimes its hard to stop lol, but yeah, bard+cleric is hard because as far as I know there isn't a prestige class to tie them together. (aka you'll either lose out on your bard spells and music, or your turn undead level and clerical casting.) good luck man.

Beaumont Sebos
04-09-2009, 06:52 PM
Yeah, the divine bard variant is cool. The one thing about it that makes me sad though, is that alot of the cool bardic prestige classes (Sublime Chord, Virtuoso, etc) require arcane casting of a certain level to get in. On the plus side though, the divine bard can use any armor (by my reading of it at least), and can use divine metamagic (the errata of which states it only applies to divine spells)

Speaking of which, that gives me a beautiful idea... Divine Bard + Druid + Green Ear (druid bard hybrid casting class from dragon magazine, 5 levels, interesting stuff) + evasion somehow + 1 level sacred exorcist for turn undead to use divine feats + the remaining levels in Fochlucan Lyrist. Should have a very high caster level on both sides, plenty of bardic musics, and come out a pretty strong build.

Sorry for the rant, when I get going sometimes its hard to stop lol, but yeah, bard+cleric is hard because as far as I know there isn't a prestige class to tie them together. (aka you'll either lose out on your bard spells and music, or your turn undead level and clerical casting.) good luck man.

Wow! Thanks for the idea. I'm gonna hafta check into it.

Farcaster
04-09-2009, 07:42 PM
I'd agree that the Divine Bard should probably not have spell casting failure penalties for casting his divine spells while wearing encumbering armor. Of course, he still needs to purchase the feats to wear it and some of the bard's other roguish skills are going to take a hit as a result.

agoraderek
04-10-2009, 01:20 AM
I'd agree that the Divine Bard should probably not have spell casting failure penalties for casting his divine spells while wearing encumbering armor. Of course, he still needs to purchase the feats to wear it and some of the bard's other roguish skills are going to take a hit as a result.

He's multiclassed in cleric, so he shouldn't need to burn the feat for armor.

Farcaster
04-10-2009, 08:54 AM
He's multiclassed in cleric, so he shouldn't need to burn the feat for armor.

Ah. So, what you are saying is that I need to pay attention to the original post. :lol: LOL

Sascha
04-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Ah. So, what you are saying is that I need to pay attention to the original post. :lol: LOL
No doing anything rash, now~! :)

agoraderek
04-10-2009, 12:18 PM
Ah. So, what you are saying is that I need to pay attention to the original post. :lol: LOL

Well....

;)

tesral
04-20-2009, 09:16 AM
I would think a Bard has other reasons to avoid heavy armor. They are more than just spell casters and mobility would be valued for more than just casting spells.

Avoid the heavy armor.

But divine spells are not arcane spells. Restrictions would be per god I would think.

nijineko
04-21-2009, 01:14 AM
i would read that "learns and casts spells as a normal bard" and "all other casting factors" bits to mean that the bard is receiving diving spells, but is casting them as a normal arcane bard. including gestures. hence spell failure penalty. sorry.




on the other hand, i think that a "divine bard" class should be a divine caster in all respects, not a bastard hand-and-a-half arcane/divine mix. so were i the dm, i would happily rule in favor of the divine version over the text as written.

Beaumont Sebos
04-21-2009, 10:11 AM
i would read that "learns and casts spells as a normal bard" and "all other casting factors" bits to mean that the bard is receiving diving spells, but is casting them as a normal arcane bard. including gestures. hence spell failure penalty. sorry.


yeah, but don't cleric spells have somantic components also? I didn't think it was a gesture that mattered, but what type of spell is cast.

nijineko
04-22-2009, 08:33 PM
arcane spell failure: The chance that a spell fails and is cast to no effect because the caster's ability to use a somatic component was hampered by armor. Bards can ignore the arcane spell failure chance for light armor when casting bard spells

this is a quote from the glossary in the phb. apparently arcane somatic components are more fiddlely than divine somatic components. but i had forgotten the exception for bards. so in the case of the divine bard, so long as the armor is light, it is a complete moot point. but since it stipulates that it is only with bard spells, and only with light armor, and combined with my previous post, i would still say that the heavy armor is out, as the rules are written.

however, i still feel that a "divine" bard should be divine based and would happily overrule my own take on the rules in favor for how i feel that it "should" be, regardless as what i may think the writing on the book says. ^^

Beaumont Sebos
04-22-2009, 08:48 PM
this is a quote from the glossary in the phb. apparently arcane somatic components are more fiddlely than divine somatic components. but i had forgotten the exception for bards. so in the case of the divine bard, so long as the armor is light, it is a complete moot point. but since it stipulates that it is only with bard spells, and only with light armor, and combined with my previous post, i would still say that the heavy armor is out, as the rules are written.

however, i still feel that a "divine" bard should be divine based and would happily overrule my own take on the rules in favor for how i feel that it "should" be, regardless as what i may think the writing on the book says. ^^

Good, then. Unanimous agreement = no arcane spell failure.
--- Merged from Double Post ---

I would think a Bard has other reasons to avoid heavy armor. They are more than just spell casters and mobility would be valued for more than just casting spells.

Avoid the heavy armor.

But divine spells are not arcane spells. Restrictions would be per god I would think.

Well I'm also multiclassing as a Cleric, so I going to at least want medium armor for battle.