Classless Point Buy

[Shadowfire757]

Ok, I am currently working on a game where there are no PC classes for DnD. The story behind it is that those who would be able to train characters into the PC classes are either dead or working for the opposition. THe Players are the resistance. Now I have a point buy systelm that I borrowed from the BESM d20 system for classless Role Play. In this point system you are allowed to purchase your Skill Point allotments (ie 8+INT, 4+INT, etc.) With the default skill table being 2+INT. Now with this classless system I am having trouble finding a way to regulate the allocation of skill point as well as all other benefits related to class level. So how would any of you handle this situation, the game is not yet finished for play so I am looking for some suggestions.

[fmitchell]

I'm not sure how to solve your specific problem, not being well-versed in d20. When you say, "regulate the allocation of skill point", do you mean restrict where skill points go? Or do characters have "levels", but no classes?

For reference, I'm aware of a couple of classless d20 systems (which, alas, I've only skimmed):

James Desborough's Live System (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2406) sounds something like what you're trying to do. There are no levels; experience points allow the characters to buy higher scores, extra skill points, etc.

Perfect 20 (http://members.shaw.ca/LeviK/Perfect20_2006.pdf) (link to PDF) has levels, but each character in effect belongs to a custom class with custom progressions in attack bonuses, saving throws, and so forth. The part I don't like is that it locks characters into a progression that the player chose at first level.

Passages (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=15044), from Blue Devil Games, throws out a lot of the apparatus in d20, leaving only characteristics, skills, and advantages/disadvantages. Attack rolls use the relevant skill for the weapon; saving throws use characteristics plus a relevant skill (like Dodge). If you want a radically simplified d20, you might want to check it out. (It's an application of a system they call "Bullseye 20", which unfortunately they haven't released separately yet.)

All this pedantry may not be helpful, I fear ... but maybe it will be.

[Shadowfire757]

What I mean is the game is classless but with character levels. Since character level determines maximum ranks for skills and gives more skill points per level of progression.

[ronpyatt]

Now with this classless system I am having trouble finding a way to regulate the allocation of skill point as well as all other benefits related to class level. So how would any of you handle this situation, the game is not yet finished for play so I am looking for some suggestions.

I'm not sure how your point system works, but I get the impression you have Character Points and Skill points, spent separately. I can suggest that the character point cost allow for "class skills" cost grouping per level. Each level spending a number of character points that determine the number of cheap skills the character has for that level. For example, for 10 CP a character can have 6 class skills, or for 20 CP character can have 10 class skills or something like it anyway.

[Shadowfire757]

Ahh, that would be helpful, right now the system I have set up for class skills is that you can pick a number of skills on the list to be class skills for your character based on the average of your ability scores.

[ghost_runner]

I used to play a system called "Heros" that may be like what you are searching for. When you level, you got skills, and could add attribute points every couple levels. In the beginning, everyone started out pretty equal, like flat 9's, and one free point. As you progressed, depending on your story, the dm would "drop" things that might move you towards a "class", i.e weapons, spells, etc.

[Shadowfire757]

Is there an Internet available rule set for "Heros"? Because I dont think I have heard of the system before. Is it fantasy based?

Also just an extra note to get some feedback but one item we have been tossing around on the table for the game is the purchase of PC Kits. Where you get most of the pieces but not all and you have to earn the extra parts.

[PhishStyx]

Unisystem does everything you seem to want from your BESM/D20 homebrewed rules except that it doesn't use levels (though there are limits on advancement):

http://www.edenstudios.net/witchcraft/WitchcraftCorebook.zip

[Shadowfire757]

Thanks for the link I'll take a look at it.

[PhishStyx]

Say, did you ever take a look at WitchCraft?

[Shadowfire757]

Say, did you ever take a look at WitchCraft?

Actaully I have given up on my gameworld for now. But I did download the rule system for future reference.

[PhishStyx]

Actaully I have given up on my gameworld for now. But I did download the rule system for future reference.


Just so you know, the All Flesh Must Be Eaten line has numerous genre books out, including western, science fiction, classic fantasy, and pulp. The AFMBE game is primarily oriented toward zombie games (ie Resident Evil), but I've seen it used for a wide variety of game styles beyond the basics.

[Moritz]

Doesn't Fantasy Hero promote a classless system using points?

[PhishStyx]

Doesn't Fantasy Hero promote a classless system using points?

I've played Hero exactly twice and NEVER will again. I hate it. Hero was literally 3 hours of watching the DM do math and count inches.

Hero crawls along; Unisystem blazes

[Moritz]

I've played Hero exactly twice and NEVER will again. I hate it. Hero was literally 3 hours of watching the DM do math and count inches.

Hero crawls along; Unisystem blazes

Right there with ya brotha'. Which is why I switched to Marvel Super Heroes. Champions was 3 hours of dice rolling, math, and boredom for 30 seconds of game time combat. While Marvel Super Heroes is so much faster.

[PhishStyx]

Luckily, I played a lotta years of Marvel before I even saw Hero.

Most of my time with MSH was played with a single GM and me by ourselves. I have literally 2 dozen of MSH PC's about 90% of which are variations of myself at the GM's insistence.

Along the way, we also played Mayfair's DC Heroes, went back to MSH, then he decided to switch again to switch rulesets, Theatrix, DC Universe, Heroes Unlimited, V & V, too Silver Age Sentinels (my personal favorite of the bunch). I spent a lot of time learning the rules to all those games because he would simply ignore them and rule randomly (sometimes we rolled D6's to hit in Palladium, other times we didn't roll to hit at all).

And then after multiple discussions about how I didn't like Hero and its intense rule system and heavy learning curve, he went out and bought it and tried to insist that I would, too. That was more than a year ago, and I haven't heard from him since.

[Moritz]

That's about what happened to me.
Played MSH since the late 80's through the early 90's. My GM discovered champions then he moved off. Ended up falling into a group of players that were already heavy into the game, so I gave it a chance for a few years. Realized it sucked, came back to MSH.