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Grimwell
03-17-2009, 09:58 PM
Out today, who picked it up? I was going to get it at lunch, but work became too involved so I didn't.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-17-2009, 10:52 PM
Havent, as of yet. I'll probably check out the stores tomorrow and peruse it a bit.

Aidan
03-17-2009, 10:57 PM
I picked it up this morning. The Barnes & Noble I went to didn't even have it on the shelves yet, so I had to ask for it. I'm especially pleased with the Avenger, Thaneblood Barbarian and Valor Bard, and Devas look like they're going to join my favorite races alongside human and dragonborn). Half-elves also have some major winnitude now too. I'd really like to play a half-elf valor bard.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-17-2009, 11:06 PM
Gnomes? (more in depth) Druids? Anything of that nature, for being old-school, i'm wishing.

Valdar
03-17-2009, 11:31 PM
Got my copy- our Valorous Bard is quite happy to have access to her whole class rather than just a preview. And a real songblade rather than my homebrew one...
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Gnomes? (more in depth) Druids? Anything of that nature, for being old-school, i'm wishing.

Classes are:

Primal: Barbarian, Druid, Warden, Shaman
Divine: Avenger, Invoker
Arcane: Bard, Sorcerer

Races are:

Deva: The new Aasimar
Shifter: Semi-Lycanthrope
Gnome
Half-Orc
Goliath

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-18-2009, 12:32 AM
Thanks for the information, Valdar. I look forward to finding a copy tomorrow.

Tamerath
03-18-2009, 09:15 AM
Well I'll throw my two cents into the mix! I have definately been watching the PHB 2 since I heard word there was going to be one. I'm usually a swordmage guy (as I've posted before) but I was looking for my next best class. This book is REALLY worth picking up. It does a great job that left the class gap lacking from the first players handbook (the monk is coming out in a future book as well). I'm also a DDI subscriber and the previews they've shown for the barbarian, invoker, druid, and bard didn't spoil what was in the book in the slightest...definately more powers for new classes, more feats for the new classes/races. More magic items, more rituals....definately worth it in my mind. So if you haven't picked it up and you are just a little on the fence about it...let me put you to ease...it's a great book and the artwork is top knotch....well..except for the Half-Orc paragon path..don't know what happened on that piece but the REST of the book looks great. hehehe

Oh and in case anyone was curious:
In our next Ebberon Campaign I'll be playing a Shadar-kai Dhampyr Avenger....who was born a thraw of the Blood of Vol but escaped and is now working for the Black Lanterns hunting down Undead Agents...and wiping them from the face of the world.

and my girlfriend is thinking about making a Changeling Bard.

so already we will get to see how two of those roles are filled and how well they do stacked up against the other classes.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-18-2009, 10:36 AM
Thanks, Tamerath. How's your bi-monthly campaigns going, btw?

Valdar
03-18-2009, 10:53 AM
What I found most interesting was their treatment of the new Divine classes- I figured they were just going to be grid-filling, but the backgrounds of those two classes were pretty unique:

AVENGER: This might as well have been called "Fanatic Assassin" (wait, that's pretty much what one of the paragon paths is...) A divine class that doesn't really have room for a "good" or "nice" theme like Paladin or Cleric.

INVOKER: Divine, but bordering on Elemental- the Invoker's power came from the time when the Gods were fighting the Primordials, and you're more interested in winning that war than serving individual Gods...

yukonhorror
03-18-2009, 10:58 AM
I like it.

I know a lot of people have issues with "all powers are the same." I think some of the classes really try and address this.

The Avenger is a striker how doesn't get bigger damage, just better accuracy.

The daily powers of the warden and barbarian give personal boosts that last the whole encounter.

Some of the invoker's powers let you summon angels to do the dirty work for you.

In terms of the sorcerer, you can have two very different characters based off which powers and class abilities you choose. You can always make two characters different based off how you play them, but the mechanics are pretty different between the two "builds." Maybe this belongs in "reviews", but that is my two cents.

kirksmithicus
03-18-2009, 11:22 AM
I really have not had much interest in the PHB 2. I'm mostly a martial type guy. I thought the PHB2 was coming out on the same day they were doing the D&D game day, but I suppose they want to give you a little time to read the book before you jump into a promotional game. Anyway, I was out doing some errands yesterday and was within 5 miles of the FLGS, so I figured what the hell, I'll stop by. The only one at the shop was the DM of the game I'm in, and he had read about halfway through the PHB2 already. All I could get out of him was "mumblemumblemumble meh mumblemumblemumble cool, mumblemumblemumblemumblemumblemumblemumble awesome mumblemumblemumblemumblemumblemumble on thursday?". So I was thinking, there might be an upside to all this. Maybe the other players will become enthralled with a new character type and they'll let my character kill their old character and throw them off the ship as an interesting plot developement :biggrin: (stupid elves). Who knows?

So I bought the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide instead. Wasn't there a thread about the Forgotten Realms not to long ago? because i'd like to go poke at them with a stick :boink:.

edit* Who knows, maybe playing the promotional game this Saturday will change my mind about the PHB2, we'll see.

Tamerath
03-18-2009, 12:41 PM
Thanks, Tamerath. How's your bi-monthly campaigns going, btw?

Hehe Thoth-Amon! How've you been amigo?! They are going well. I still have an opening for any interested players out in my area. (More info on another thread as not to derail this one too much)

Back to topic...what I like most about the Avenger (yes aside from that classic assassin feel) is the ability to pull a monster away from the pack and single it out till dead. (Or get a jump on a lone monster and slash it up before it knew what really killed it)....then of course (in my case) drain a little blood in the process.

On the Ebberon side I can see my character working with the Silver Flame Church...in 3.5 they had a prestige class called Silver Flame Exorcist....and really..that's how I'm going to be creating my Avenger...an Exorcist that takes out the Evil Supernatural in the world possibly going against the Blood of Vol or the Lords of Dust

Farcaster
03-18-2009, 01:42 PM
what I like most about the Avenger (yes aside from that classic assassin feel) is the ability to pull a monster away from the pack and single it out till dead. (Or get a jump on a lone monster and slash it up before it knew what really killed it).

What? Sounds like I need to put the Avenger template on some mobs. :evil:

Kalanth
03-18-2009, 05:15 PM
I was pleased with the book for the most part. Many of the new races will end up in the trash bin in my game as I am only taking the Gnome, Half-Orc, and Shifter from the book (maybe, and thats a stretch, the Goliath as well).

I really liked the idea of Racial Paragon paths as well. Especially cause I was looking for a way to give my Dragonborn player wings and now there is an option (that is if the Cleric in the party wants to forgo a cleric paragon path).

The rest of the book remains to be read but I had parused it a bit to get a feel. This book should get as many miles as the first players handbook when it comes time to starting a new game (or in my case working up new NPC's).

Moritz
03-18-2009, 08:50 PM
Hang on. Instead of 3.0 to 3.5 in a few years. They released the 'updated' version of the PHB within a year? Or is this an 'expansion'?

1958Fury
03-18-2009, 09:03 PM
Hang on. Instead of 3.0 to 3.5 in a few years. They released the 'updated' version of the PHB within a year? Or is this an 'expansion'?

Expansion.

I got mine in the mail today. I've only gotten to glance through it, but so far it looks great.

Farcaster
03-18-2009, 10:44 PM
Expansion, Moritz, just like the PHB II for 3.5 was an expansion.

Kalanth
03-19-2009, 07:31 AM
As was said, it's an expansion and was certainly no secret. They were straight foward in saying that there would be a new PHB, DMG, and MM every year [for the duration of 4th ed].

Moritz
03-19-2009, 07:40 AM
I never bought the PHBII for 3.5. Guess I missed out.

Kalanth
03-19-2009, 08:19 AM
I never bought the PHBII for 3.5. Guess I missed out.

I really liked that book, so I would say that you did miss out. :) The DMG II was also an outstanding book, certainly amoung the better ones that WoTC put out for 3.5.

Moritz
03-19-2009, 08:40 AM
Wonder if I can get them both for 6 bucks each?

As I ponder running a 3.5 game this summer.

Kalanth
03-19-2009, 09:33 AM
Wonder if I can get them both for 6 bucks each?

As I ponder running a 3.5 game this summer.

To bad I sold mine already, cause that was what I was selling them for...

Amazon has the DMG II used between $7.99 to $9.99 but not so lucky on the old PHB II as they average $23.

Moritz
03-19-2009, 09:41 AM
I'll wait. The prices will drop even lower. It's not like I've needed the book or even played the game in over a year.

1958Fury
03-19-2009, 09:43 AM
Now that I've had a better look...

I love it. It's the perfect companion. I thought I was only going to try a couple of the new options, but it's just full of stuff I want to try some day. Like a Shifter Druid who favors cat forms... at this time yesterday, I hadn't even thought about it, but now I want roll up a new character immediately. But even beyond the new races/classes, I love the new stuff for old races. Race-related Paragon Paths, some new feats I'm going to take for my existing characters, more equipment, rule updates, etc. The chapter on backgrounds is a nice answer for those who accused 4e of not having enough roleplay rules, but I don't think it will satisfy them. In short, it's not just a splat book, IMO.

Of course 4e's version of the universe is still incredibly marketing-driven. The Half-Orcs are no longer ugly, the Gnomes are no longer silly-looking (they just look like miniature elves). While you can design ugly characters, in general all the races are beautiful. And of course, there's the Half-Orc controversy mentioned in that other thread: "Half-Orc" is now an actual race - meaning that if you're a Half-Orc, then both your parents were Half-Orcs, rather than you being the result of mixed heritage. All in the name of family friendliness.

This is going to turn off some players, and attract what old-timers may consider "the wrong type of players" to the game. Personally, I'm in favor of them doing whatever it takes to pull more people to the hobby. Legitimatize the game that much more, bring it a bit more mainstream, and maybe gaming stores will quit going out of business all the time. Maybe I won't have so much trouble finding a stable group. Maybe our local LFR games will have more than 12 seats available, so I don't have to sign up the day it's announced just so I can get to play.

Vulture
03-19-2009, 11:59 AM
i've reserved a copy at Amazon.com, looks like i'll have to go ahead and get it, my players should be happy.

Valdar
03-19-2009, 12:12 PM
And of course, there's the Half-Orc controversy mentioned in that other thread: "Half-Orc" is now an actual race - meaning that if you're a Half-Orc, then both your parents were Half-Orcs, rather than you being the result of mixed heritage. All in the name of family friendliness.


Not necessarily- the First Generation background (p. 183) gives you the option of playing the child of an orc and a human. That wasn't listed as the default because the authors not only found it distasteful, but also unlikely.

1958Fury
03-19-2009, 12:17 PM
Not necessarily- the First Generation background (p. 183) gives you the option of playing the child of an orc and a human. That wasn't listed as the default because the authors not only found it distasteful, but also unlikely.

Yeah, I meant generally, not absolutely. The main page on Orcs also mentions Half-Orcs that only have one Half-Orc parent. But in any event, it's the family-friendly background they're encouraging.

Meeki
03-20-2009, 09:17 AM
OH MAI GAWSH!!!11oneoneone!!11

I want that book, I think I will pick it up during lunch today. Goliaths are in it, so now I have something to line my cat's box with.

I want to take a look at the two new controllers and try to work on my martial one, which I posted months ago but haven't had a chance to work on.

Azatoth
03-21-2009, 09:09 AM
I just picked up the PHB II and I must say that I am impressed, I like the feel and variety in the new races and classes. I know, they aren't new per se but new takes but still.

Grimwell
03-21-2009, 11:21 AM
Today is the day for me! Assuming it's in stock when I go. :)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-21-2009, 12:20 PM
Today is the day for me! Assuming it's in stock when I go. :)
Best of luck to you, Grimwell. Hope you get it. Be sure to give us your impressions of said tome when you get a chance.

gdmcbride
03-22-2009, 03:50 AM
PHB II 4.0 really feels like the second half of the game. It is nice to see the gnome, half-orc, barbarian, bard and druid back.

The classes are almost all exclusively combat focused (in keeping with the first PHB). The Avenger is almost a complete carbon copy conceptually of 2nd ed's Holy Slayer (ala Al-Qadim). The Holy Slayer had benefits that came from his organization. He could get information, equipment and support from them. The Avenger has none of that. Instead, he does more damage under certain circumstances and gets a bonus to AC as long as he stays away from heavy armor and shields (none of which he is proficient with). The class even starts with this sentence "In secret temples...orders of esoteric warriors train ... in ancient traditions..." And that's it. No further mention, interest or benefit comes from these orders. You may have once belonged to the order, but now you are a solo butt-kicker for Bahamut (or whoever) as least as far as class features are concerned.

Right now likely you are either going "Of course! That's all roleplaying fluff, nothing the system should be concerned with." or "GAH! Why does everything have to be about combat? Can't non-combat powers and abilities get a little love." The former means you are going to love this book. The latter means you should probably stay away.

The book fills out the feat list nicely. The new races and classes get their due. The new racial paragon paths are interesting. I especially liked the human one -- Adroit Explorer. It oozes big hero noise.

The book has its flaws and yes there is some power creep. It has a few feats that are simply too useful. Implement and Weapon Expertise for example. +1 to hit at heroic, +2 at paragon, +3 at epic with a whole weapon group or implement type. This feat just became damn near mandatory especially to the martial classes.

Compare it for example with 'Anger Unleashed' which grants a +2 to hit, that doesn't grow with levels and only when you are first bloodied and then for only turn.

Which is the better feat?

Backgrounds are an interesting turn. Since they allow any class to add any one skill to their class skill list -- it turns out I've gotten my way. I have often argued that skills are not the road to niche enforcement and now by opening up the skill list, it appears WotC agrees. Fighters are now as stealthy as rogues if they want to be and it doesn't even cost them a feat. Fighter in scale mail with flails have every reason to have a high dex. By 11th level, thanks to Armor Mastery (Scale), they won't even suffer a movement penalty in their armor and they never suffered any armor check penalties. It turns out that scale and flail fighters are actually the feared ultra-heavy ninja. Who knew?

Rangers with thievery. Clerics with perception. Barbarians with arcana. All in the core rules. Who would have guessed?

So an interesting book. If you are playing 4th ed -- a must own. If you don't like 4th ed, this book won't change your mind.

Gary

Valdar
03-22-2009, 02:15 PM
I think I actually did change a few minds with it at a party at my place last Friday- there were some people there who played a regular 3.5 game, and were still stuck on the usual complaints about 4e ("oversimplified", "where's the gnome", etc.). One said something like "I can't believe they got rid of the Druid", at which point I went upstairs and got my copy and handed it to him...

Grimwell
03-22-2009, 05:32 PM
The class even starts with this sentence "In secret temples...orders of esoteric warriors train ... in ancient traditions..." And that's it. No further mention, interest or benefit comes from these orders. You may have once belonged to the order, but now you are a solo butt-kicker for Bahamut (or whoever) as least as far as class features are concerned.

I think this is only a flaw for DM's who want a roleplay heavy world, but don't have the time/desire to do the leg work of setting it up. I'm not even half way through, I just finished with the Barbarian class read through, and I'm very happy with the small sprinklings of non-combat related information. It helps to shape the idea of the class, but does not nail it down in completely firm ways.

Which allows it to be very flexible and very easy to fit into my world. When I was reading the Avenger information my mind was filling in the blanks about what secret temple an Avenger might come from and where I'm going to locate it in my world.

My world. ;)

My take on the "Fluff" introduced in core books 4.0 is that it is very deliberately vague. They have put forth the "Points of Light" setting, and given a very basic skeleton of information to support it, but not so much that you are confined to much of anything. They are using the Forgotten Realms (and soon Ebberon) as the settings to get much more specific about all the details before the DM's hand starts to make it feel like home.

Vanilla 4.0 needs a DM with a plan to make it a homey setting. Which is what I want since I'm in the process of rounding out my own setting for 4.0.

More to the topic of the thread, I'm really enjoying the PHBII as I read through it. The races and classes as I've seen so far are fun, hint at things enough that I feel inspired to make them available to players in my games, and each have enough unique points about them to not just be a rehash of something from the first PHB. This is the first official D&D suppliment since the Tome of Magic for 2E that I can tell I'm going to wear the binding down on.

Most suppliments are used for a random piece here and there, but not used in total. PHBII looks like a "Used in total" book for me so far.

Full review when I'm done! ;)

Otakar
03-23-2009, 12:44 AM
Everything so far seems pretty positive. Makes me feel good about picking it up when my local store gets some more in. I guess that's a pretty good indication as well. Thanks all!

fmitchell
03-23-2009, 02:50 AM
PHB II 4.0 really feels like the second half of the game.

And PHB III with the Monk and whatever else will be the third half ...


"GAH! Why does everything have to be about combat? Can't non-combat powers and abilities get a little love."

That's me.

gdmcbride
03-23-2009, 06:44 AM
And PHB III with the Monk and whatever else will be the third half ...

Well, the monk was always kind of an odd bird -- a strange one-off import from oriental adventures. I think most campaigns can get along just fine without the monk. Especially now that monsters don't need PC classes.

PHB III due out next year will probably address two of the four yet untouched power sources to the repetoire -- ki, psionic, shadow and elemental. I see ki as the most likely of the four to be included.

Ki will probably get four classes. My guesses:

Monk - ki striker
Ninja - another ki striker? Could he be the controller?
Samurai - ki defender
Shukenja/Mystic - ki leader

Psionic has always gotten its own book -- I wonder if this will be the version that breaks that mold? Ki and Psionic do seem like kind of natural bed fellows.

What did suprise me is that there is yet no good unarmed fighter build in the RAW. What an amazing hole in fantasy archetypes. We finally got Conan into 4th ed with the PHB II. But where is the Irish brawler? The Greek wrestler? Hercules stripped bare strangling the Nemean lion with his bare hands?

It wouldn't be hard -- make a feat that allows you to take superior weapon that makes your hands count as a melee weapon with a +3 proficiency bonus and say a 1d6 damage. This feat lets any martial exploit that gives a bonus to hammers also allow a bonus for Skilled Unarmed.

Add a magic item where you can wrap your hands in enchanted straps that can use any weapon property with 'any' attached to it.

Maybe add a few more feats -- some special strikes, Unarmed Mastery at epic, and walla! An unarmed fighter build.

I'm surprised they haven't gotten around to it.

Gary

yukonhorror
03-23-2009, 08:53 AM
Well, the monk was always kind of an odd bird -- a strange one-off import from oriental adventures.

Gary

I hate to be anal about this, but monk was in the original player's handbook of 1st ed AD&D (long before any oriental supplement). It sucked/rocked being one, but it was there. Sucked in that you couldn't benefit from any high scores (or so it felt), but rocked because it was so neat and different.

Just my two cents.

Valdar
03-23-2009, 10:22 AM
My wild guesses about PHB3, based on what I've seen:

Monk: Ki Striker
Ninja: Ki Striker
?: Ki Defender, Controller, or Leader (won't be Asian in origin, to counter the idea that Ki is the "Asian" power source, which when you think about it would be pretty racist.)
Illusionist: Shadow Controller
Necromancer: Shadow Leader or Striker
Empath: Psi Leader
?: Other Psi classes with names like Mindlance (striker), etc.

Samurai and other Asian-themed classes will be dealt with in a non-PHB book (I'm wondering if they'll still use the "Oriental Adventures" moniker, or go with something a little more contemporary.)

Also, non-combat did get some love in PHB2- check out the Backgrounds section. Look for more non-combat love in DMG2, with expanded rules for skill challenges.

Otakar
03-23-2009, 10:26 AM
I hate to be anal about this, but monk was in the original player's handbook of 1st ed AD&D (long before any oriental supplement). It sucked/rocked being one, but it was there. Sucked in that you couldn't benefit from any high scores (or so it felt), but rocked because it was so neat and different.

Just my two cents.

I did rock because it was different but it sucked because the first few levels were tough going. Try to sneak around to do the 1-3Hp open hand damage with your 9 AC. That's a tough start.

gdmcbride
03-23-2009, 04:44 PM
I hate to be anal about this, but monk was in the original player's handbook of 1st ed AD&D (long before any oriental supplement). It sucked/rocked being one, but it was there. Sucked in that you couldn't benefit from any high scores (or so it felt), but rocked because it was so neat and different.

Just my two cents.

Yeah, and it was an odd out of place bird there too...

Of course that wasn't the first version of the monk in D&D. It has a long and rocky relationship with the game.

First it appeared in the supplement "Blackmoor" written by Brian Blume and based off the Destroyer series, the same series of novels by Warren Murphy and Richard Sapir that would spawn the movie "Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins". Chiun, the master of Sinanju, is therefore the prototypical monk.

Gary Gygax shoved it into AD&D 1st but later regretted it, saying in the OA preface "In its early development, the D&D game was supplemented by various booklets, and in one of these the monk, inspired by Brian Blume and the book series called The Destroyer, was appended to the characters playable. So too was this cobbled-together martial arts specialist placed into the AD&D game system, even as it was being removed from the D&D game."

By second edition, the monk was gone. If there exists official rules for monks in second edition D&D, I am not aware of them.

It was back in core in third edition of course and now its out of core in fourth. So of the six major editions of D&D (white box, bemci, AD&D, 2nd, D&D 3rd, 4th) the monk scores 2 out of 6.

My point remains -- the monk is an odd bird better suited to an asian supplement than shoe-horned into core. It could be done well in core (with feats and styles to support te class -- Pathfinder has actually done a pretty good job with this), it just seems like it almost never is.

Gary
--- Merged from Double Post ---

...won't be Asian in origin, to counter the idea that Ki is the "Asian" power source, which when you think about it would be pretty racist...


I'm not sure I'd call it racist.

Ki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi) is a japanese word. Every other power source is named in English.

Therefore would be it be suprising if the four ki related classes are also sort of Japanese themed? The monk, ninja and samurai all have long histories with the game. They seem likely to me for the next book.

Gary

Valdar
03-23-2009, 04:59 PM
Whatever the original inspiration for the Monk, its popularity was clearly boosted by the "Kung Fu" TV show- why else did they name it "Monk", if it wasn't supposed to be in part based on the Shaolin?

Anyway, I did find it an odd inclusion as well. The Shaolin fighting style developed in response to there being a scarcity of real weapons, which doesn't really describe the D&D world at all.

It's currently only in 2 out of 6, but about to be 3 out of 6- we'll supposedly see the 4e preview in May. Ki was supposedly on the short list for power sources for PHB2, but I guess in the end they decided to "finish" the Divine power source before starting too many others, and reintroducing the Bard, Barbarian, Sorcerer and Druid demanded that Arcane and Primal had to be the other two.

Aidan
03-23-2009, 10:10 PM
I have some really fond memories of the monk from AD&D (1e) days. I always hated thieves, because almost inevitably, the thief player decided to steal from the party or do something else that would cause party drama. The monk was a way to have a character that could cover the sneaky/trap-disarming sort without having to resort to a thief. Nowadays, your archer ranger with rogue multiclass is a way to do that (and in fact, can be better than a rogue because the ranger probably has a higher perception.).

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-23-2009, 11:13 PM
I loved monks, too. I also loved thieves for the very reason you hated them, but as much as i loved thieves, i would inevitably roll badly and my thief would get his due. Back in the day(1st ed.), there wasnt much forgiveness for damage causing death with thieves, and monks at lower level, for that matter.

Valdar
03-23-2009, 11:28 PM
I'm not sure I'd call it racist.

Ki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi) is a japanese word. Every other power source is named in English.

Therefore would be it be suprising if the four ki related classes are also sort of Japanese themed? The monk, ninja and samurai all have long histories with the game. They seem likely to me for the next book.

Gary

It would be racist if you made an obviously arcane class like Wu Jen a Ki class simply because it's Japanese. Same goes for making the Shujena a Ki class instead of a Divine one. That would make Ki the "Japanese" power source. A poster on a different forum likened it to making a Legionnaire class with a "La Resistance" power source because it's French.

Anyway, that's a big discussion for a different board- as I said, my guesses were based on what I've seen, and Rob Heinsoo mentioned in a podcast that there may be Ki classes that aren't Asian:

http://www.critical-hits.com/2008/08/19/critical-hits-podcast-8-interview-with-rob-heinsoo/

Kalanth
03-24-2009, 06:42 PM
Grouping those classes into a Ki section and considering it racists is a dramatic stretch. But, this video might ad some perspective to the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwNSNLPIfw

yukonhorror
03-24-2009, 06:56 PM
i think the PH describes "ki" as soul energy. So it is possible this could include the concepts of magic of incarnum.

If it is an oriental power source though, I want to see the return of the yakuza.

CzarGarrett
03-25-2009, 09:59 AM
I could see there being a Ki/Psionic combination PH3 or such book.


IMO, the concept of a monk-psion always went together well in 3rd Ed. Maybe one of the writers/editors also feels that way.


And this way, they won't have an overload of rather odd classes forced to fit into their scheme of things.

yukonhorror
03-25-2009, 10:02 AM
I could see there being a Ki/Psionic combination PH3 or such book.


IMO, the concept of a monk-psion always went together well in 3rd Ed. Maybe one of the writers/editors also feels that way.


And this way, they won't have an overload of rather odd classes forced to fit into their scheme of things.

I was thinking the same thing. With PH2, they had to fill out divine and arcane. The four current power sources are pretty well covered, so will be all new power sources. I think there is enough psi content and ki content for those to be the only two power sources in the PH3.

Sort of Mind (psi) and Soul (ki).

Valdar
03-25-2009, 10:48 AM
Grouping those classes into a Ki section and considering it racists is a dramatic stretch. But, this video might ad some perspective to the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwNSNLPIfw

Yes, I saw Avenue Q when it was in town =)

(edit: Dimthar started a new thread on this topic, and I approve, so I'm moving my remarks over there).

Otakar
03-25-2009, 11:38 AM
I breezed through the PHBII. I don't know what I expected. I like the Goliath race as I also liked half-ogres as a race. I'm more of a "less is more" guy. I may hold off on buying it for a while.

Meeki
03-26-2009, 11:13 AM
IMO I would pick this book up ASAP.

I read the book and am quite impressed by the diveristy of classes and mechanics. Each class has it's own very unique flavor and are fairly well designed. The classes alone make the book worth purchasing.

This is all IMO of course but if you are a DM I would purchase this book asap. Not only does it allow your players a greater number of options but it provides you with ideas for monster powers (from the classes) and new magic items. That and if fills in some of the missing classics; bard, druid, barabarian.

kirksmithicus
03-27-2009, 12:29 PM
I looked through the PHB2 at my last game session. I thought it looked pretty cool, which surprised me quite a bit. I thought it was mostly spell casting class material, which really isn't my thing. I like the new races, and the half-orcs are an old favorite :D. I may be pasty white on the outside, but on the inside, I'm mean and green baby! Unfortunately my wife spent all of our money, so I'll have to wait a while before I can get it.

Otakar
03-27-2009, 02:16 PM
IMO I would pick this book up ASAP.

I read the book and am quite impressed by the diveristy of classes and mechanics. Each class has it's own very unique flavor and are fairly well designed. The classes alone make the book worth purchasing.

This is all IMO of course but if you are a DM I would purchase this book asap. Not only does it allow your players a greater number of options but it provides you with ideas for monster powers (from the classes) and new magic items. That and if fills in some of the missing classics; bard, druid, barabarian.

I guess I'm just being limiting. I will pick it up. A good game is all about the players, right? I do have a motivated player who wants to play a druid. I'm still trying to wrap my head around a dwarf druid.

canadiansatan
03-27-2009, 06:54 PM
I am suddenly interested in playing DND again, now that druid is back.

Valdar
03-27-2009, 07:13 PM
What's funny is that I have a player who always played "woodsy" classes in the past (Barbarian, Ranger, Druid), and I originally told her to play a Feylock until PHB2 came out (as it's the closest thing to a nature-based class in PHB1), and I'd let her switch the character to Druid when it was available. Everything I'd read seemed to indicate that Druid would be a Striker, so it even made it so her role wouldn't have to change.

Well, nine months later, we've since lost both our Defenders to conflicting work schedules, so she converted her Feylock to a Swordmage, on the premise that this was simply a different sort of power that her fey benefactor is giving her (since both classes use Arcane as a power source, it wasn't too much of a stretch to assume that her Swordmage powers could come from the same source).

Now that the rules are finally out, she's having too much fun on point, and doesn't want to switch to Druid.... Good times...

Also, Druid is now a controller, and Sorcerer is a striker, in complete opposition to what was published in Races and Classses. I had a friend make fun of me for buying that book... I guess I have to call him up and tell him he was right =)

ronpyatt
03-28-2009, 12:29 AM
Got to read through the PHB2, and it is more than I'd hoped for. The Half-orc and Gnome really kick the lama! I've never realized how much I disliked the previous incarnations of the gnome.
The Shaman & Druid classes are fantastic. Since our group avoids trying to fill the "roles", we don't worry about having too many leaders or controllers. That's the GM's problem.

Oh, and I love the Racial Paragon Paths, all but the Halfling's path, which seems uninspired and nothing like the cool Draconic wings and the Wildshape flight forms. Sweet.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-28-2009, 02:32 AM
I guess I'm just being limiting. I will pick it up. A good game is all about the players, right? I do have a motivated player who wants to play a druid. I'm still trying to wrap my head around a dwarf druid.
Dwarf/Druid? Obviously, your player is a fan of R.A. Salvatore's Drizzt novels, beginning with the Cleric Canticles. :rolleyes:

Grimwell
03-28-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm not quite done with this, but well over the half-way mark, and I can report nothing but satisfaction with everything I've read so far. As I'm reading through the classes, I keep finding different ways I want to make room for them in my setting. That's a very good thing!

rikrok
03-28-2009, 05:42 PM
I was really pleased with this book. Except for the Gnomes and a lot of the art.

DreadArchon
03-30-2009, 02:36 PM
I loved the book. My biggest complaint is that Shifters didn't get a small power bump like Gnomes did, but it's a small complaint.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-30-2009, 04:37 PM
I havent seen the second PH yet. I do love Gnomes, so i hope they got some respect.

Grimwell
03-31-2009, 08:51 AM
Fear not, the Gnomes get some respect. They are not the same gnomes you are used to; but they work well as presented IMO. Plus, it's quite easy to change the table dressing and make them more like the gnomes you are used to if you don't like them as presented.

...and what I mean by "Not the same gnomes you are used to." is that they aren't Krynn influenced tinkers who make a bunch of crap that does not work. They are back to a Fae reference and tied to the Faywild, etc.

So if you like tinkering gnomes, you have to do a little work to make it happen; but they are very playable as are and fit into the basic "Points of Light" cosmology driving this edition quite nicely.

Valdar
03-31-2009, 08:59 AM
Yes, tinker gnomes were deliberately avoided. The designers didn't want to muck with the medieval setting by throwing in a bunch of technological devices.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-31-2009, 10:31 AM
The Gnome news is fantastic news. Thanks.

rikrok
03-31-2009, 01:00 PM
The gnomes don't look like gnomes though, nor do they sound like gnomes. Here's the pic:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b196/wtflakes/gnomes.jpg

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-31-2009, 03:01 PM
Hey, i'd be all over that, though i'd have to shrink my height to have a chance. Contrary to most(i believe), i actually like having/have Halflings(Hobbits) and Gnomes in my games. I have their backgrounds, behaviors, beliefs, idiosyncrasies, etc, so different as to where they both add flavor w/o blurring the two. <awkward sentence, i realize>

Grimwell
03-31-2009, 04:07 PM
The gnomes don't look like gnomes though, nor do they sound like gnomes.

What does a gnome look/sound like though? Run a quick search on Google images for Gnome and the popular answer is a white-bearded guy with a red conical hat. That's not any version of the gnome that I've seen in any D&D world since I was a teen.

There isn't really a answer to the question, and each game can have it's own answer. So if you don't like what you see, revert back to old art and work with your players/GM on the notion of what you would like to see for gnomes in your current game. Plenty of room to flex!

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-31-2009, 04:12 PM
Well, for me, i have my own interpretation of what a Gnome should look like... and it's not elvish as this picture seems to describe(see above). I really need to get a printer soon so as to scan and drop a picture of what a Gnome really looks like(according to me).

Valdar
03-31-2009, 04:27 PM
As long as they don't look like ridiculous short guys with gigantic noses and receding grey hair... And laughable high voices...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-31-2009, 05:29 PM
As long as they don't look like ridiculous short guys with gigantic noses and receding grey hair... And laughable high voices...
...the ears, dont forget the oversized pointy ears.

McCummhail
04-03-2009, 08:25 AM
DnD has strayed far from real gnomes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_of_David_the_Gnome

The new version of gnomes may actually be headed in the right direction.

1958Fury
04-03-2009, 04:06 PM
If anyone is interested, my own blog entry on the PHB2 is here (http://1958-fury.blogspot.com/2009/04/d-players-handbook-ii.html).

Grimwell
04-03-2009, 07:48 PM
Good link. You should copy it here for the link lazy! ;)

Valdar
04-04-2009, 09:44 AM
WSJ bestsellers list (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iT8TD8VdKcb_JE6ewOa6XKQyYQ1wD97AFJKO0)

Check out Nonfiction, #14.

Otakar
04-06-2009, 08:37 AM
Has a D&D game book ever hit the best seller's list before?

Grimwell
04-06-2009, 12:13 PM
I would have to guess that the answer is 'yes' but I can't say for sure. I don't track those sorts of things. =)

Valdar
04-06-2009, 01:00 PM
Here's a list compiled by another poster in a different forum-

3.5 PHB - 2 weeks on list, peak at 57
3.5 DMG - 1 week on list, peak at 92
3.5 MM - 1 week on list, peak at 112
3.5 PHB2, 1 week, peak at 128

3.0 PHB - 3 weeks on list, peak at 45
3.0 DMG - 2 weeks on list, peak at 58
3.0 MM - 2 weeks on list, peak at 58

4e PHB - 4 weeks on list, peak at 47
4e DMG - 1 week on list, peak at 128
4e MM - 1 week on list, peak at 147
4e Gift Set - 2 weeks on list, peak at 57

This is from USA Today, not WSJ, so you're looking at a completely different metric- these might be all books, not just nonfiction- not sure. But all the books above can be compared to each other, at least.

Otakar
04-07-2009, 08:41 AM
Very cool, Valdar. Thanks for sharing.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-07-2009, 10:22 AM
Still very cool, Valdar. It's interesting to see the numbers. Thanks for posing data.