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Valdar
03-09-2009, 01:26 PM
Anyone seen it? I've seen it twice already (it's rare I ever see a movie twice), but what an awesome movie. I'd say apart from the pacing and amount of plot they had to jam into three hours, it rivals Iron Man.

The second time I saw it, there was a guy behind me who brought a young kid to it. He quickly got the picture and they left. How this movie is not NC-17 is beyond me.

Soft Serve
03-09-2009, 02:27 PM
I haven't seen it. I haven't even made plans too...I never heard of the Watchmen until everyone started about a movie so I didn't think it appealed to me.

Then ontop of that I was sure that if I saw it I would want to start playing Superheroic RPG's....

If enough people tell me that it's that amazing I'll have to go see it I guess but nobody has.

Valdar
03-09-2009, 03:04 PM
Some of my friends were like "meh", but then I realized that they were too young to remember the 80s, so a lot of the theme (threat of nuclear war) was lost on them...

gdmcbride
03-09-2009, 03:56 PM
Great movie. Saw it on the Imax. Spectacular and a worthy adaptation of perhaps the finest graphic novel ... well, ever.

Even if it does have a lot of shots of 'Lower Manhattan' in it.

Is it better than 300 or Sin City (as movies)? I don't know, I'll have to see it again (and to be sure ... I will!) but it's close.

Definitely a movie not to miss.

Gary

Dimthar
03-09-2009, 08:49 PM
How does it compare to the graphic Novel?

Webhead
03-09-2009, 10:12 PM
I saw the movie this past Saturday. I will try to elaborate my thoughts and impressions as best I can muster:


...Even if it does have a lot of shots of 'Lower Manhattan' in it...

For all the reviewers that made a big deal out of this, it didn't bother me nearly as much nor was it nearly as prominent as I was expecting. Besides, it's fraggin' CGI. It's not real nor should it be distracting to the *average* viewer.


...Is it better than 300 or Sin City (as movies)? I don't know, I'll have to see it again (and to be sure ... I will!) but it's close...

IMHO, it is a far cry above Sin City (the only part of Sin City I liked was Marv's tale) and is probably at least as enjoyable as 300. I liked 300.


How does it compare to the graphic Novel?

The comparison between to two gives me difficult pause because of 2 considerations:

1) The *events* of the film follow those of the graphic novel about 90%. That is to say, it is very faithful to the overall plot, scene structure and characterizations of the book.

2) However, it's primary hang-up is the fact that (as is demanded in a film format) it often doesn't give you enough time to let things settle into your brain. Because they are crunched to tell the entire story in the span of 160 minutes, the film must constantly barrel forward without allowing the audience time to reflect.

That is the most difficult thing to "feel out" when reviewing this film. Overall it is gorgeous, detailed and very faithful to both the style, substance and structure of the book. The problem is simply that the story was not meant to be told in such a medium. Watchmen is the kind of story that needs ample time to deliver background and character development and it needs to give the reader time to contemplate the significance of what they have read. As a consequence, the film has all the right "parts" but what it's missing is the undercurrent of significance to give it value. Watchmen would probably have been much better delivered as a mini-series than crammed into a theatrical film.

Okay, what does this all mean?

It was a good film. One of the overall most enjoyable and interesting "comic book" films to come out for at least several years.

My advice: If you have not read the graphic novel...do so before seeing the film. It is nothing short of fantastic and will only make you appreciate both the film and the book more. It is best enjoyed one step at a time, with breathing room and time for contemplation in between its weighty chapters.

If you have read (and liked) the graphic novel...see the film. It is every bit a labor of love and it shows. At times, the dialog is stripped straight out of the book and works quite well. While it isn't perfect, it is far closer than I ever expected a film treatment of Watchmen to be and that is saying something quite impressive.

I will be waiting for the Ultimate Edition DVDs to release, at which point I will pick them up.

Grimwell
03-09-2009, 11:06 PM
If you have read (and liked) the graphic novel...see the film. It is every bit a labor of love and it shows. At times, the dialog is stripped straight out of the book and works quite well. While it isn't perfect, it is far closer than I ever expected a film treatment of Watchmen to be and that is saying something quite impressive.

I'll second this. I didn't read the Watchmen comics in the 1980's, I read them last fall in anticipation of the movie. Time has made the graphic novel less awesome or surprising, but for it's time it was foundation shattering -- I know because I was reading the regular comics back then so I can see why it stood out.

The film made me appreciate the comics more, hearing the actors do the dialog instead of the voices in my head really added impact to what the characters were saying and feeling, in ways that my read through the comic did not deliver.

I think the two are best paired together. No matter which one you find first, it's worth the effort to find the other one and fully appreciate what is happening.

I'm eagerly awaiting the uncut DVD as I think some of the pacing is just on the cutting room floor.

Two thumbs up, changes and all... the movie was a pleasure.

Soft Serve
03-09-2009, 11:22 PM
idk. I still don't care enough to try and watch it...nobody has made it appealing enough yet.

DeathByDM
03-10-2009, 07:30 AM
SPOILER WARNING

As a long-time comic book and superhero movie fan, I am far on the other side of the fence.

I thought the acting in the movie was horrendous. The only character that I felt any connection to was Rorshach, a psychopath with an annoying raspy voice. The character development for everyone else was underwhelming and their personalities were bland.

The action scenes (especially in the jail) were cool. Other than that, there was too much dull talking. They could have cut out half the dialogue (and probably a half-hour out of the movie) and wouldn't have lost anything in the translation.

Now, I'm a red-blooded american guy who likes violence and sex as much as anyone, but there were a few scenes that were simply offensive to me (not to mention my poor wife). The rape scene, the pregnant woman getting shot, and the little girl being eaten by dogs (not to mention the brutal killing of the dogs) were completely unnecessary for the story. It takes a seriously sick individual to actually enjoy those scenes.

The sex scenes were clumsy, uncomfortable, and not sexy at all. With sex and this much full-frontal nudity (all male, by the way. I think I saw one lady's nipple all movie, but plenty of blue and normal wang and butts to last me a lifetime) this should have been rated NC-17 at the very least. Was there any good reason for the blue guy to not be wearing his speedo? Why did they have to show him from the waste down so much anyways? DO NOT TAKE KIDS.

The song choices throughout the entire movie were poor. Slow, cheesy songs during fight scenes ("Unforgettable" during the first fight scene) and awesome, rock and roll songs during scenes when they are just walking (when they are walking in the snow it's playing Jimi Hendrix "All Along the Watchtower", what a waste of a good song)

Look, I get the movie. I get that they wanted to stay true to the graphic novel. However, to me this movie isn't much more than a superhero porno. I guess I'd have to be a fanboy to really appreciate it.

The best part of the movie was the opening credits (which were a cool background montage). You can now see those online for free (http://io9.com/5166169/the-best-part-of-watchmen-online-now). After that, it was all downhill.

Webhead
03-10-2009, 09:23 AM
idk. I still don't care enough to try and watch it...nobody has made it appealing enough yet.

My advice...read the graphic novel first. If you don't like the graphic novel you won't like the film. If you like the graphic novel you will see that the film is very my a showing of respect to its phenominal source material.

In case you're not up on exactly what Watchmen is about here it is in a nutshell:

It is an alternate 1985. Since the 40's, a small handful of normal people would decidedly dress up as "super heroes" and fight crime. There were no super-powered beings...that is until the 60's when a freak accident transformed a physicist into Dr. Manhattan, a being that can manipulate matter at will. The existence of Dr. Manhattan and his seeming loyalty to the U.S. plunged the nation deep into a nuclear arms-race with the Soviets. The confused, panicked and restless American populace outlawed masked vigilanteism in the 70's and has fallen into a rut of social recklessness and decay. Now, with global armageddon looming on the horizon, the masked vigilante Rorschach uncovers a conspiracy that begins with the death of one of his former collegues and he sets out to warn the other retired heroes of its possible connections to the war.

It really is an excellent book. One worthy of multiple readings.

Valdar
03-10-2009, 09:54 AM
In case you missed it, Billy Crudup (Dr Manhattan) was interviewed by Jon Stewart recently, and had a few things to say about the movie:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=220269

Webhead
03-10-2009, 10:14 AM
...I thought the acting in the movie was horrendous...

I agree that there were a few of the performances that were distinctly obnoxious. Interestingly, they weren't entirely the ones I was expecting based on reading the reviews. If the film translation has a flaw, the consistency of performances is its greatest one.


...The character development for everyone else was underwhelming and their personalities were bland...

I hesitantly agree. I say hesitantly because the character personalities were mostly there, only the film doesn't dedicate enough time to allow the audience to contemplate them. It's a problem with the medium and its time-constraints. Watchmen would have been much better done as a mini-series.


...The action scenes (especially in the jail) were cool. Other than that, there was too much dull talking. They could have cut out half the dialogue (and probably a half-hour out of the movie) and wouldn't have lost anything in the translation...

Oddly enough, most of the "action scenes" seemed fair but unimpressive to me. Rorschach's escape from Moloch's apartment still being the best one (as it is in the novel). Short, brutal and to the point. I for one felt that there were several instances where dialog was cut that I wish they had left in. In the jail bathroom scene for example, I kept waiting for Nite Owl to insert the "costume design" comment but, alas, it never happened, instead favoring shots of the swinging bathroom door.


...Now, I'm a red-blooded american guy who likes violence and sex as much as anyone, but there were a few scenes that were simply offensive to me (not to mention my poor wife). The rape scene, the pregnant woman getting shot, and the little girl being eaten by dogs (not to mention the brutal killing of the dogs) were completely unnecessary for the story. It takes a seriously sick individual to actually enjoy those scenes....

Not to say that you have no right to be offended by those scenes (you certainly do) but those scene are each very important to the story and all contained in the novel. In fact, the point of those scenes was to shock the reader at just how twisted and unfriendly the world and characters of the story are. It is making sharp contrast to the "bright, honest and honorable" ideal of the classic "super hero". I certainly did not "enjoy" those scenes when reading the novel, but I did recognize their impact and significance to the characters of the story and was subsequently impressed by them.


...The sex scenes were clumsy, uncomfortable, and not sexy at all...

Agreed. The sex scene aboard Archie was awkward and tasteless. It could have been handled much better. The others (which could barely be qualified as "sex scenes") were fine and mostly intact from the novel.


...Was there any good reason for the blue guy to not be wearing his speedo?...

Faithfulness to the source material and the characterization of Dr. Manhattan. He was not human and thus had no sense of need for covering his body when not in public.


...DO NOT TAKE KIDS...

I absolutely, whole-heartedly agree. It is not a story for children and should not be approached as such. Consequently, they would not be able to appreciate the complexities of its message anyway. This is not Saturday-morning Superfriends.


...The song choices throughout the entire movie were poor. Slow, cheesy songs during fight scenes ("Unforgettable" during the first fight scene) and awesome, rock and roll songs during scenes when they are just walking (when they are walking in the snow it's playing Jimi Hendrix "All Along the Watchtower", what a waste of a good song)...

I agree about halfway. Close to half of the songs were well-placed and the other half were a little peculiar. Regardless, none of the choices (except "Hallelujah" during the obnoxious Archie sex scene) were completely off-putting. I actually liked the placement of "Unforgettable" in the intro scene.


...Look, I get the movie. I get that they wanted to stay true to the graphic novel. However, to me this movie isn't much more than a superhero porno...

I think it may appear as such to some because the film lacks one of the most important elements of the novel...weight. The film gets all the "parts" right but doesn't give you the underlying significance of it all. This is simply because the film is forced to rush from scene to scene in order to confine itself to the 160 minutes it is allowed to tell the story and doesn't give the viewer time to reflect and draw their own conclusions.


...The best part of the movie was the opening credits (which were a cool background montage)...

Yes, the opening montage was very cool. It did well to summarize heaps of backstory within just a few minutes.

Quick question for you, have you read the graphic novel before or was the film your first experience with Watchmen? I'm curious to know if this is an impression coming from fresh and unfamiliar eyes. As a reader and general fan, it is difficult for me to judge the film outside of that familiarity.

Valdar
03-10-2009, 11:00 AM
Not sure it was intentional, but in reference to the tasteless sex and violence in the movie, this is what movies were like in the 80s. Road Warrior comes to mind...

Aidan
03-10-2009, 12:27 PM
MY friends and I have been waiting for this movie since 1988 or so, when rumors started circulating about a Watchmen movie. The graphic novel brought comics out of the kiddy ghetto, I can't begin to tell you what an eye opener it was at the time. I can't wait to see it, I did hear they changed the ending though, which is kind of sad.

Webhead
03-10-2009, 12:44 PM
...I did hear they changed the ending though, which is kind of sad.

The change to the ending is really only a cosmetic one but one which does have a slightly different bent to it than the original. I was very afraid when I heard the word "change" that the film would suffer for it. Honestly, the change isn't very drastic at all even if I'm not entirely sure I completely groove on it yet. It works perfectly fine but it does raise some other questions that I've not yet had sufficient time to ponder.

DeathByDM
03-10-2009, 01:28 PM
Quick question for you, have you read the graphic novel before or was the film your first experience with Watchmen? I'm curious to know if this is an impression coming from fresh and unfamiliar eyes. As a reader and general fan, it is difficult for me to judge the film outside of that familiarity.

A friend of mine here at work brought it in and I flipped through it. I wouldn't say I read it thoroughly or enjoyed it enough to even want to spend more time on it.

I believe this movie will probably be popular with those who read the graphic novel beforehand AND enjoyed it. However, the viral marketing campaign that they employed is undoubtedly the reason so many people (including me) are going to see it. Those people who are expecting the action they see in the trailers will probably be offended or at the very least unsatisfied.

Webhead
03-10-2009, 02:23 PM
A friend of mine here at work brought it in and I flipped through it. I wouldn't say I read it thoroughly or enjoyed it enough to even want to spend more time on it...

Fair enough, and to be certain, Watchmen may not be everyone's cup of tea. That's okay too. One man's trash and all that. That said, simply flipping through it can be deceptive (that was how I first encountered Watchmen and on a flip-through I wasn't sure I was going to like it). It is one of my all-time favorite pieces of fiction but then my tastes range a staggeringly broad spectrum.


...I believe this movie will probably be popular with those who read the graphic novel beforehand AND enjoyed it. However, the viral marketing campaign that they employed is undoubtedly the reason so many people (including me) are going to see it. Those people who are expecting the action they see in the trailers will probably be offended or at the very least unsatisfied.

True. The trailer is a bit misleading to newcomers. Neither the book nor the movie are very "action-y" relative to what one expects when they see or hear the words "comic book" or "super hero". The action is not central to the story's progression. It is a much more intellectual piece of deconstructionist commentary about exactly what kinds of people would dress up in costumes and presume that they could solve the world's problems. It also begs the question whether or not the world would be better off without such people.

I enjoyed the film overall even though I don't think it was a complete success (and was even, at times, disappointing).

Sascha
03-10-2009, 02:30 PM
True. The trailer is a bit misleading to newcomers. Neither the book nor the movie are very "action-y" relative to what one expects when they see or hear the words "comic book" or "super hero". The action is not central to the story's progression. It is a much more intellectual piece of deconstructionist commentary about exactly what kinds of people would dress up in costumes and presume that they could solve the world's problems. It also begs the question whether or not the world would be better off without such people.

If they showed, really, what Watchmen is about in the trailer, I'm not sure it'd ever have been seen. It'd almost have to be a red-band trailer to get the deconstruction point down, rather than "masks fighting crimes and solving a murder;" honestly, I can't remember the last red-band I saw.

Valdar
03-10-2009, 02:57 PM
I did hear they changed the ending though, which is kind of sad.

They had to change quite a few things to bring it up-to-date. The original ending of


a faked alien invasion


would have been too campy, I think. Also, when talking about Archimedes, in the comic, Nite-Owl says that its "lack of corners makes it radar-invisible". We've since seen that radar invisible = lots of corners, rather than none, so that line had to go...

Mindbomb
03-10-2009, 03:15 PM
Never read the comic, saw it in IMAX, stayed totally intrigued the whole time, although I wish they wouldn't have chopped out what they did. Will go see it again, which is extremely rare for me and get the uncut DVD when that's available. I saw an interview with the director and when he said his favorite comic growing up was Heavy Metal I knew what to expect and HAD to actually see it in film.

GoddessGood
03-10-2009, 03:41 PM
... "lack of corners makes it radar-invisible". We've since seen that radar invisible = lots of corners, rather than none, so that line had to go...

I dunno. Radar's about backscatter. A perfect sphere wouldn't have much in the way of directional backscatter, if I'm remembering my radar course right. On the other hand, if I'm dead wrong ... don't tell my boss :o

Valdar
03-10-2009, 06:59 PM
I dunno. Radar's about backscatter. A perfect sphere wouldn't have much in the way of directional backscatter, if I'm remembering my radar course right. On the other hand, if I'm dead wrong ... don't tell my boss :o

I never took a radar class, or really any engineering class at that level, but in the popular consciousness, radar-invisible means plenty of corners:

http://custodialsmackdown.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/b2.jpg

gdmcbride
03-10-2009, 07:48 PM
Hmmm...I'll have to see it again to fully form my opinion about the performances, but at a first blush I completely bought the characters.

The acting jobs were very understated to be sure but that's the point of the story. Watchmen is superhero deconstruction. Taking the candy-colored pop-culture myths apart and seeing what makes them tick.

I can really see why some people wouldn't like it. Watching your idols be dissected and shown as human can be very unsettling.

But, me I enjoyed it immensely. And if you enjoy superhero movies, you should definitely see this. The graphic novel profoundly affected comic books in America. I wonder if the movie will affect their silver screen derivatives?

Watchmen -- check.

Now, I want a quality 300-esque adaptation of Frank Miller 'Ronin'. And a Sandman movie where Neil Gaiman writes the script. And more Iron Man. Get on it, Hollywood.

Gary

DeathByDM
03-11-2009, 06:21 AM
The action is not central to the story's progression. It is a much more intellectual piece of deconstructionist commentary about exactly what kinds of people would dress up in costumes and presume that they could solve the world's problems. It also begs the question whether or not the world would be better off without such people.

I think they could have gotten into this a bit more. They didn't really get into why these people got into doing it in the first place at all. Another thing that bothered me is if they aren't "super" then how were they able to totally destroy people they fought. It just didn't make sense. Are they ninjas or something? Where did they learn to fight? Why did they choose to fight crime rather than commit it. The movie never addressed this. I understand why the first group did it (they explained it a bit) but not the new team.

Also WTF was up with Rorsach's mask?

Webhead
03-11-2009, 08:21 AM
I think they could have gotten into this a bit more. They didn't really get into why these people got into doing it in the first place at all. Another thing that bothered me is if they aren't "super" then how were they able to totally destroy people they fought. It just didn't make sense. Are they ninjas or something? Where did they learn to fight? Why did they choose to fight crime rather than commit it. The movie never addressed this. I understand why the first group did it (they explained it a bit) but not the new team...

Yes, a lot of these details are buried in backstory that the movie never really gets to dwell on. Especially regarding Rorshach.


...Also WTF was up with Rorsach's mask?

Rorshach's mask is also explained in the novel but not the film. It was a new clothing material inspired by Dr. Manhattan's influence on the advances of science. It was supposed to be two viscous oils (one black and one white) sealed between two layers of latex. The oils would not mix with one another and responded to heat and touch. Kovacs (Rorshach) was working in a textile factory when a woman returned a dress made of the material because she thought it was ugly. He was fascinated by it and took it home but didn't use it to fashion his mask until years later.

Valdar
03-11-2009, 11:15 AM
Speaking of 300, did anyone else notice the prevalence of that number in the movie? The Comedian lived in apartment 3001, and the 1 got knocked off in the fight. Rorschach's doctor's briefcase had a combination of 300 when it opened and spilled his cards. I'm sure there were others...

DeathByDM
03-11-2009, 11:36 AM
Yes, a lot of these details are buried in backstory that the movie never really gets to dwell on. Especially regarding Rorshach.



Rorshach's mask is also explained in the novel but not the film. It was a new clothing material inspired by Dr. Manhattan's influence on the advances of science. It was supposed to be two viscous oils (one black and one white) sealed between two layers of latex. The oils would not mix with one another and responded to heat and touch. Kovacs (Rorshach) was working in a textile factory when a woman returned a dress made of the material because she thought it was ugly. He was fascinated by it and took it home but didn't use it to fashion his mask until years later.

This makes me think that the movie would have been much better as a series rather than a one-off since a lot of important details were left out. They really screwed the pooch on that one. Talk about opportunity lost.

GoddessGood
03-11-2009, 12:52 PM
I never took a radar class, or really any engineering class at that level, but in the popular consciousness, radar-invisible means plenty of corners
I'm amenable to that, especially considering the pictures I found when I typed in "stealth fighter (http://www.jetpix.com/webfiles/stealth/stealth8.jpg)" on a google search. Radar works best when you fire it at something flat that is facing directly at you (a.k.a. a wall) because all (well, most) of the signal you transmit from your antenna is bounced straight back at you. However, if your signal hits an angled surface, it's more likely to bounce away from you and if that happens you won't see it at all. So it's really "the more angled surfaces the better" rather than "plenty of corners", but corners definitely do enter into it. I did a quick search to see what it is the Archimedes looks like and ... yeah, well that's a big target for radar.

Back on the subject, I'm hoping to go see Watchmen this friday since I've got a better sense of what it is now. We'll see how it goes :).

Webhead
03-11-2009, 01:19 PM
This makes me think that the movie would have been much better as a series rather than a one-off since a lot of important details were left out. They really screwed the pooch on that one. Talk about opportunity lost.

Yes. I've been saying for years that Watchmen would be done better justice by a big-budget mini-series than a film. There is simply not enough time and breathing room in a feature film to communicate the complexities of the story sufficiently.

Think about it: Watchmen was a twelve issue mini-series or roughly 400 pages of content. Even at the extended theatrical run time of 155 minutes (long for the average Hollywood film), that equates to about 12 minutes and 55 seconds of screen-time per issue or roughly 23 seconds per page (about 2.6 seconds per "panel" in the comic).

The "Ultimate" edition cut that will be released this fall is said to have a run time of 205 minutes total but even then there will be important material that won't be able to be squeezed in or was never even scripted and filmed in the first place.

Sascha
03-11-2009, 01:25 PM
This makes me think that the movie would have been much better as a series rather than a one-off since a lot of important details were left out. They really screwed the pooch on that one. Talk about opportunity lost.

The composition of Rorschach's mask is neat, but largely irrelevant to the main plot. The *trigger* for his taking *that* specific material and using it for his vigilantism is far more integral, but still not absolutely necessary to understand the character.

Webhead
03-11-2009, 01:27 PM
The composition of Rorschach's mask is neat, but largely irrelevant to the main plot. The *trigger* for his taking *that* specific material and using it for his vigilantism is far more integral, but still not absolutely necessary to understand the character.

Absolutely. It's just a great piece of character development to drive home exactly where Kovacs comes from and how his view of the world is colored.

DeathByDM
03-11-2009, 01:28 PM
The composition of Rorschach's mask is neat, but largely irrelevant to the main plot. The *trigger* for his taking *that* specific material and using it for his vigilantism is far more integral, but still not absolutely necessary to understand the character.

Perhaps, but for a movie in which the only "super" hero is supposed to be Dr. Manhattan, that mask brings up questions that aren't answered for those who haven't read the comics.

If they were just targeting comic book fans, this should have been a made-for-tv movie on the Sci-Fi channel or something, not a box-office blockbuster.

Webhead
03-11-2009, 01:32 PM
If they were just targeting comic book fans, this should have been a made-for-tv movie on the Sci-Fi channel or something, not a box-office blockbuster.

Oh, God, no! Please, no! I would rather Watchmen not be translated at all...ever...than to have it reduced to being something as terrible as a Sci-Fi Channel original movie.

I'm happy that it got the big blockbuster budget to help keep it immersive. I just wish that budget could have been billed to a series of 1-hour episodes.

Sascha
03-11-2009, 01:46 PM
Absolutely. It's just a great piece of character development to drive home exactly where Kovacs comes from and how his view of the world is colored.

Another layer on a horribly complex persona. Though, the reference might have warranted more explanation for a modern film audience.


Perhaps, but for a movie in which the only "super" hero is supposed to be Dr. Manhattan, that mask brings up questions that aren't answered for those who haven't read the comics.

If they were just targeting comic book fans, this should have been a made-for-tv movie on the Sci-Fi channel or something, not a box-office blockbuster.

Fair enough. I had some response as to the tech level being greatly increased due to John's works and such, but it's been a few days since I saw it and can't remember how far the film went to draw attention to it. Ah, well; guess another screening is in order :P

Valdar
03-11-2009, 04:11 PM
The following may be in poor taste, but it's hilarious:

Hitler finds out about new Watchmen ending. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhHema5PNg)

Dimthar
03-11-2009, 09:34 PM
Hitler: - I wanted to see the squid in all its glory in the big screen while proudly wearing my Rosrchach outfit.

LOL

Sascha
03-11-2009, 11:27 PM
Saturday Morning Watchmen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w) makes me giggle.

gdmcbride
03-11-2009, 11:34 PM
The following may be in poor taste, but it's hilarious:

Hitler finds out about new Watchmen ending. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhHema5PNg)

Okay, that was some twisted sort of genius.

Gary

GoddessGood
03-12-2009, 08:37 AM
The following may be in poor taste, but it's hilarious:

Hitler finds out about new Watchmen ending. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhHema5PNg)


Saturday Morning Watchmen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w) makes me giggle.
I suspect I will only understand how truly funny these are after reading the novel/watching the movie. However, Hitler is funny regardless.

Webhead
03-12-2009, 09:25 AM
Saturday Morning Watchmen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w) makes me giggle.

Oh...my...God!!! That is hilarious! Whoever did this is very talented and has a terrifically twisted sense of humor, taking impetus from the book and adding their own personal touches! A+!


I suspect I will only understand how truly funny these are after reading the novel/watching the movie. However, Hitler is funny regardless.

Yes, an understanding of the book and film and how they differ is needed to really appreciate these.

On a side note, I just started re-reading Watchmen again last night.

Valdar
03-13-2009, 11:20 AM
Saturday Morning Watchmen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w) makes me giggle.

Wow... I wonder how old that clip is? And I can just see this as the "sanitized" version of Watchmen for kids... Bubastis as Scooby Doo... Comedian as Johnny Bravo... Silk Spectre as Jem...

Webhead
03-13-2009, 12:46 PM
Wow... I wonder how old that clip is? And I can just see this as the "sanitized" version of Watchmen for kids... Bubastis as Scooby Doo... Comedian as Johnny Bravo... Silk Spectre as Jem...

It is a flash animation that was created very recently, as in within the last few months. It was not a real cartoon series. That clip is just someone's clever spoof trailer in homage to the references in the book about Veidt's business ventures including the idea of a Saturday morning cartoon featuring him and his "crime-fighting friends".

Whoever created the clip though gets big thumbs up for this! Top-notch!

Sascha
03-13-2009, 06:52 PM
It is a flash animation that was created very recently, as in within the last few months. It was not a real cartoon series. That clip is just someone's clever spoof trailer in homage to the references in the book about Veidt's business ventures including the idea of a Saturday morning cartoon featuring him and his "crime-fighting friends".

Whoever created the clip though gets big thumbs up for this! Top-notch!

But sure does look like it could be an 80s cartoon. The look, the animation; the theme song is so deliciously campy. Dr. Manhattan turning into a car~! (For which there is precedent (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0211171/), and I really wish I didn't know this :P)

I'm giggling like a schoolgirl still, at that line specifically. (And the preceding one, complete with demonstration, but only in an ironic manner.)

tellis
03-14-2009, 07:51 AM
some friends are taking me to the movies for my birthday and they dont want to see this, but i am going to this movie with them because not much else grabs me as a "must see" "with an audience" and on a "big screen" right now. we will be a great test group because none of us has read the novel. what draws me is the trailer,looks good, and the chatter that im picking up, to much talking always means that theres a chance of good dialog. true to the original, can mean it sucks just like every other hollywoodized story, or that as in this case it seems to me from fans of the g.fic that it will give some people the unhappy ending they always wanted ala "the unforgiven". good thats not what im always looking for, but in this case superman should end up looking beat.as for the shots of old manhattan, well being that i grew up looking at the trade center going up floor by floor from my junior highschool civics class window, and then watched them fall, they were there in the background, in the backdrop to most of my life story, and i dont see them in some of the movies and tv shows when i know they should be there, airbrushed out? or cameras minipulated to avoid them, i dont know, but i do know it hurts as much to see them as to not see them. i was in the buildings the week before they went down and the reality of something that substantial and impressive vanishing is alot to process. if they wouldve made they movie set by the golden gate bridge then show it, if its about manhattan theyve got an obligation to put what manhattans skyline looked like, it will distract me like it always does so i may have to see this movie twice(good excuse right) if this sounds a little preachy sorry its just always going to be an emotional thing for me to not see the world trade center or to see it.-tellis

Webhead
03-14-2009, 04:21 PM
...as for the shots of old manhattan, well being that i grew up looking at the trade center going up floor by floor from my junior highschool civics class window, and then watched them fall, they were there in the background, in the backdrop to most of my life story, and i dont see them in some of the movies and tv shows when i know they should be there, airbrushed out? or cameras minipulated to avoid them, i dont know, but i do know it hurts as much to see them as to not see them. i was in the buildings the week before they went down and the reality of something that substantial and impressive vanishing is alot to process. if they wouldve made they movie set by the golden gate bridge then show it, if its about manhattan theyve got an obligation to put what manhattans skyline looked like, it will distract me like it always does so i may have to see this movie twice(good excuse right) if this sounds a little preachy sorry its just always going to be an emotional thing for me to not see the world trade center or to see it.-tellis

Oh, by the way, when someone was referencing "shots of lower Manhattan", that's not exactly what they were talking about. :D

They did depict the twin towers in the Manhattan skyline in the film (a fact that I am very happy about being both period-appropriate and a homage to the people who lost their lives on that fateful day), but the reference was to an entirely *different* Manhattan.

Without spoiling anything, one of the characters in the story is called "Doctor Manhattan". Once you have seen the film (or read the novel) you will understand what we're talking about. ;)

Let us know your feelings on the film after you see it. I am always curious to know what uninitiated viewers get from the experience.

Soft Serve
03-14-2009, 06:07 PM
HAHA shots of Lower Manhatten. I get it.

ronpyatt
03-14-2009, 07:59 PM
Saw it this morning at IMAX. Wow. Great movie. Great story. Not really a superhero story, but it was a story about the human condition. It was not what I expected.

By what I had heard... I expected non-stop "exposure" and explicit scenes. By my count the reports of too many shots of lower Manhattan were greatly exaggerated, and the "gratuitous" copulation scenes were tame. (I was expecting an episode of Dante's Cove.)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-15-2009, 05:49 PM
Havent seen it yet. I'm still on the fence about going, probably will, and if/when i do, i'll make it an IMAX experience. Perhaps i'll go Tuesday, if i do i'll be sure to share.

Soft Serve
03-15-2009, 07:14 PM
I wish they could shoot every movie in 3D. Coraline in 3D was great, I bet the watchmen would be too.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-15-2009, 08:01 PM
It wouldnt surprise me if they do in our lifetimes.

Soft Serve
03-15-2009, 08:22 PM
I hope soon it can be done without those glasses. The glasses hurt my eyes.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-15-2009, 08:51 PM
They'll probably be designed something like planetariams (sp?), with added multidimensional sound and projecting visuals.

Webhead
03-15-2009, 09:22 PM
...By what I had heard... I expected non-stop "exposure" and explicit scenes. By my count the reports of too many shots of lower Manhattan were greatly exaggerated, and the "gratuitous" copulation scenes were tame. (I was expecting an episode of Dante's Cove.)

Agreed. Especially Doc Manhattan's exposure was not nearly as distracting as many reviews made it seem. I tend to think that if such a thing bothers you as much as it seemed to bother some of the newspaper reviewers, you've got some deeper issues that probably need examining.

Sascha
03-15-2009, 10:17 PM
Agreed. Especially Doc Manhattan's exposure was not nearly as distracting as many reviews made it seem. I tend to think that if such a thing bothers you as much as it seemed to bother some of the newspaper reviewers, you've got some deeper issues that probably need examining.

Yeah, I half-expected it to be something that needed its own cast credit, from how it was talked about. Turns out, not so much. Maybe if it were the only thing about John that were electric blue, it'd have warranted extra attention :P

Soft Serve
03-16-2009, 01:01 AM
Rofl!

"why is that blue?!

And why does your room smell like petrolium jelly?"

Skunkape
03-16-2009, 07:31 AM
Agreed. Especially Doc Manhattan's exposure was not nearly as distracting as many reviews made it seem. I tend to think that if such a thing bothers you as much as it seemed to bother some of the newspaper reviewers, you've got some deeper issues that probably need examining.

I think the attention that it got as far as the reviewers go, speaks of the purtanistic views of a certain portion of the country. The general concensus in this country is that we're all up tight about sex and the human body, but I've found that there are fewer people who find it objectionable than you'd expect.

Personally, I didn't see what the big deal was either, for both the sex scenes and John's lack of clothes. Guess I'm getting jaded in my old age.:D

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-16-2009, 11:33 AM
I'm in agreement. The folks are so few that are offended by this that it amazes me that they have such a loud voice. Watching tv the other day, noticed that one hot girl showed a little side hip(blurred out), but it was perfectly fine to show body parts being lopped off, gratuitous blood, and mans inhumanity to man.

Valdar
03-16-2009, 12:41 PM
Absolutely. Watchmen has some REALLY gory scenes (Manhattan popping people like meat balloons, complete with a bloody, skeletal arm stuck to the ceiling?). And people get upset because he's "tackle-out"?

cigamnogard
03-18-2009, 06:03 PM
Went and saw it last night...I guess I still have not decided if I like it or not. The action was good - when it was there, the acting ... meh..., the scenery/back ground was excellent, it dragged quite a bit, and as I have not read the novel I would recommend that maybe one should prior to going to go see it.

Srt. Freeman
03-18-2009, 06:06 PM
I saw it today for the first time....amazing shit

cigamnogard
03-18-2009, 06:21 PM
I saw it today for the first time....amazing shit
Guessing you read the novel then prior to watching the movie?

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-18-2009, 10:16 PM
Okay, i have to admit, after reading all these posts that i will elect to wait for it to be released on netflix.

If for no better reason that from what i'd read, i am unwilling to pay such a huge amount for a 2 hour movie. I blame the theater industry, personally. Prices are getting out of control.

ronpyatt
03-18-2009, 11:32 PM
Sorry it costs too much were you live. We paid $8 for the IMAX version, and it was nearly 3 hours of entertainment that I can look back on as one of the finest movies I've ever seen. Worth every penny to see on a bigger screen than I can get in my current living room.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-18-2009, 11:40 PM
It's 12-14 duckets here, per flick. Passing ten $$ lost me as a customer. Heck, if i am willing to wait a few months(and i am), i can get 12 movies a month plus 19 hours of downloadable movies from netflix(directly connected from my laptop to my plasma tv), all for $18.99/mo. I can even get the movies in bluray. Not too shabby.

GoddessGood
03-19-2009, 09:10 AM
IIRC they dropped the max hours clause and it should be unlimited usage now ...

At any rate, I still haven't seen it yet. My mom and little brother (I say little, but he's 19) visited us over the last few days. My bro and boyfriend went to see Watchmen while I took my mom to see Slumdog Millionaire. I liked it alright, but she was not too pleased. She's not into violence, and it tends to throw her off the plot of movies (which is why we didn't see Watchmen). For their part, the menfolk regaled us with tales of giant, blue wang. This of course made my mother cringe and endeared my boyfriend to her forever ;)

Webhead
03-19-2009, 09:38 AM
...For their part, the menfolk regaled us with tales of giant, blue wang. This of course made my mother cringe and endeared my boyfriend to her forever ;)

That's funny! :lol:

Though Dr. Manhattan is nude throughout most of his appearances in the film, one should be aware that it is not "gratuitous" or "pornographic" for its presence is no more pornographic than Michelangelo's statue of David or Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man. The film also doesn't go out of its way to depict his nudity but instead frames shots the way they would be framed as if he were fully clothed. So it's really only in the medium to long range shots that it is present. It is also somewhat blurred by the blue glow that constantly surrounds him and the fact that Dr. Manhattan is all CGI.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-19-2009, 09:56 AM
IIRC they dropped the max hours clause and it should be unlimited usage now ...

At any rate, I still haven't seen it yet. My mom and little brother (I say little, but he's 19) visited us over the last few days. My bro and boyfriend went to see Watchmen while I took my mom to see Slumdog Millionaire. I liked it alright, but she was not too pleased. She's not into violence, and it tends to throw her off the plot of movies (which is why we didn't see Watchmen). For their part, the menfolk regaled us with tales of giant, blue wang. This of course made my mother cringe and endeared my boyfriend to her forever ;)
Unlimited usage is great news. Awefully nice of them to let me know... which they didnt. Also, my monthly price went down $2, without explanation. Oh well, it's working in my favor, so no complaints. Again, thanks for the 411, GoddessGood.

Webhead
03-19-2009, 10:07 AM
It's 12-14 duckets here, per flick. Passing ten $$ lost me as a customer. Heck, if i am willing to wait a few months(and i am), i can get 12 movies a month plus 19 hours of downloadable movies from netflix(directly connected from my laptop to my plasma tv), all for $18.99/mo. I can even get the movies in bluray. Not too shabby.

Yes, I only ever see movies at the theater during matinee hours these days. Our nearby theaters (AMC and Cinemark) sell matinee tickets for $5 so I scoff at the idea of paying more than that just for the "privelage" to go during louder, more crowded, more rampantly adolescent "primetime" business hours.

My brother and I went to see Watchmen on matinee the Saturday after release. $5, great seats and no annoyances to put up with. If I see it again in theaters (which I may, it's worth seeing on the big screen), it will be another matinee showing.

Yeah, if the idea of paying $8.50 for a movie ticket bothers me, I don't think I could cope with the idea of $12-14. That is straight robbery. You have my sympathies, Thoth...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-19-2009, 10:18 AM
...and dont even get me started on the prices of items at the concession stand.

GoddessGood
03-19-2009, 10:27 AM
...and dont even get me started on the prices of items at the concession stand.
Last time I pay $4 for a bottle of water. I just needed it to take my allergy meds with and they didn't have a working fountain. I wasn't desperate enough to drink from the faucet in the bathroom.

Unlimited usage is great news. Awefully nice of them to let me know... which they didnt. Also, my monthly price went down $2, without explanation. Oh well, it's working in my favor, so no complaints. Again, thanks for the 411, GoddessGood.
NP. They didn't let me know either. I found out because I use it to watch old TV episodes of things like Xena and Quantum Leap. Those are about 45 minutes each including the credits and you get an hour per dollar you pay in your monthly subscription. I used to stop playing the episode when the credits started to save 2 or 3 minutes (hey, it adds up). I only found out when I went to check how much time I had left that month that it had gone to unlimited usage.

Webhead
03-19-2009, 10:42 AM
...and dont even get me started on the prices of items at the concession stand.

Yep, that's where they make all their money. I used to work in a theater many years ago. The profit margin on ticket sales is (or at least, was back then) surprisingly pretty thin, if you can believe that. Thus, in order to ensure that they turn a workable profit, theaters rely upon their concession sales. That's also why many of them are so tight on disallowing outside food and drink. But they can't search you, so as long as you keep it in a purse or jacket pocket and it isn't screamingly obvious, there's not much stopping you from hitting up the dollar store beforehand and getting what you want for a quarter of the price.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-19-2009, 10:48 AM
Funny you mention that. My friends little brother worked at the convenience store next to the local theater. He said that made the majority of their candy profits from moviegoers. Not surprising.

GoddessGood
03-19-2009, 12:26 PM
As a former big-purse-carrier I've often been the snack mule. I think the biggest load I've ever gotten into a theater were two of the extra tall cans of Monster, 3 candy bars and a pack of Grandma's brand cookies. They tried to fit a bag of chips, but there are limits. I told them they'd be getting a bill for my chiropractor :)

spotlight
03-19-2009, 12:54 PM
I rarley go to the regular moveis nowadays. I wait until it gets to the local dollar show, actually 1 1/2 dollar. And I still go to the dollar matinees for that! Less crowded and by then , I pretty well know if its worth the theater 'experience'.

There been so much gabbing about Lower Manhattan, that I am not sure that there is any reason for me to even bother. I like the super hero stuff, but never cared for the watchmen stories to much. I'll stick with Spidy and Hulk and Legionairs and such.

Mindbomb
03-19-2009, 01:23 PM
Paid $37.50 for me and 2 friends to see it at IMAX and I would've regretted seeing it on the smaller screen instead. If you're going to watch it, watch it as good as possible or don't bother watching it at all because you won't appreciate all the little things that gave it the ultimate comic movie feel. I never read the books but I've seen enough movies and read enough books to really appreciate a good story when it comes along and isn't just a rehashing of something I've seen/heard a million times.

Soft Serve
03-19-2009, 01:25 PM
Anyone watch the South Park joke at the watchman?

Webhead
03-19-2009, 01:31 PM
...There been so much gabbing about Lower Manhattan, that I am not sure that there is any reason for me to even bother. I like the super hero stuff, but never cared for the watchmen stories to much. I'll stick with Spidy and Hulk and Legionairs and such.

Watchmen is not "super heroes" to be sure, so one should not go into it looking for that kind of experience.

Don't get caught up in the "lower Manhattan" stuff. That really has almost no bearing on the experience of the film or graphic novel.

I like "traditional" super hero comics/movies as well (Spidey is a personal fave, if you couldn't tell...) but also thoroughly enjoy Watchmen. If it's not your thing, it's not your thing and there's not much that will change your mind. But if you are open to some really dark and intense drama, mystery and deconstruction of "masked vigilanteism" then Watchmen is a story not to be missed.

Let's put it this way, if you liked the sort of look and feel of Batman Begins or The Dark Knight, then you will like the feel of Watchmen. If you didn't like Dark Knight...well...I'm not sure there's anything else that I can say about that...
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Anyone watch the South Park joke at the watchman?

...?

Valdar
03-19-2009, 02:10 PM
If you didn't like Dark Knight...well...I'm not sure there's anything else that I can say about that...


If you didn't like Dark Knight, there is no hope for you at all.

Webhead
03-19-2009, 03:21 PM
If you didn't like Dark Knight, there is no hope for you at all.

Precisely my point. :)

There's always room for personal taste but Dark Knight was just awesome.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-19-2009, 04:15 PM
Missed the SouthPark episode, sadly. Loved the theme of the Dark Knight. Okay, now i'm on the other side of the fence again-to go see it. Maybe tommorrow.

Soft Serve
03-19-2009, 05:11 PM
yeah Cartman was a superhero and Professor Chaos was his archenemy.

it was really funny and stupid at the same time.

cigamnogard
03-19-2009, 05:42 PM
South Park - meh...Maybe I just am getting too old but the humor typically is't what I would call humor....

Soft Serve
03-19-2009, 11:54 PM
It might not have been watchman and just superhero's in general but I mean...South Park likes to pick apart recent movies and such.

cigamnogard
03-20-2009, 07:42 PM
It might not have been watchman and just superhero's in general but I mean...South Park likes to pick apart recent movies and such.
Really? I thought they picked everything apart :laugh:

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-20-2009, 09:51 PM
I thought South Park did a fantastic job on WOW, to just name one.

tesral
03-29-2009, 12:50 AM
As a former big-purse-carrier I've often been the snack mule. I think the biggest load I've ever gotten into a theater were two of the extra tall cans of Monster, 3 candy bars and a pack of Grandma's brand cookies. They tried to fit a bag of chips, but there are limits. I told them they'd be getting a bill for my chiropractor :)

I can survive a few hours without food. It can be done. Not to mention that nothing they sell at a movie theater is anything I need to eat. I have simply gotten into the habit of walking right passed the highway robbery snacks and not missing them at all. See my film. Walk out.

This year I have yet to darken a theater.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-29-2009, 09:58 AM
I also dont care if i have food and drink when in/frequenting a theater-rarely going now-a-days due to the steep prices. Unless it is some rare exception, something i must see on the big screen, i can just wait for netflix. I have noticed every year that i've see fewer movies than the previous year, so it wont surprise me if by 2010-2011, i stop going to theaters all together.

Truth be told, the only movies i plan to see in theaters in the upcoming years are...

Potters (2 more?)
Hobbit/s (2 more?)

...then it would be safe to say that i will be officially done with the theater experience.

Grimwell
03-29-2009, 02:24 PM
On my own dime, I got to the movies about twice a year. Beyond that I only go for company events and am lucky to work for a cool company that thinks geek movies are good reasons for events! ;)

Otherwise I'd be the king of netflix too.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-29-2009, 02:52 PM
On my own dime, I got to the movies about twice a year. Beyond that I only go for company events and am lucky to work for a cool company that thinks geek movies are good reasons for events! ;)

Otherwise I'd be the king of netflix too.
Well, now that netflix gives you unlimited downloadable movies, i've been happier than usual.

GoddessGood
03-30-2009, 08:35 AM
Since one of the guys in the Sundered Skies group I'm in was kind enough to loan it to me, I've started reading the graphic novel of Watchmen. Nope, still haven't seen it yet. I dunno, is it weird that I identify more with Dr. Manhattan than any other character so far? I've just gotten to the part where he is on mars reliving the past.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-30-2009, 10:17 AM
I havent, as of yet, checked out the Watchman graphic novel. I heard of a good graphic novel, of late, is the 30 Days of Night series. Nice take on Vampirism. Anyone read these?

cigamnogard
03-30-2009, 07:55 PM
Since one of the guys in the Sundered Skies group I'm in was kind enough to loan it to me, I've started reading the graphic novel of Watchmen. Nope, still haven't seen it yet. I dunno, is it weird that I identify more with Dr. Manhattan than any other character so far? I've just gotten to the part where
Interesting - I think it would have been much better to have read it first. More like a play one takes in school and then goes to see the director's impression.

Kaewin
04-02-2009, 05:42 AM
I just want to say I have been waiting 22 years for this movie and saw it the first Saturday it was out, I loved the movie. I just hope some idiot doesn't say "let's make a sequal" of course with the ticket sales it doesn't look like it will happen. I think they needed to advertise on the TV more. I don't remeber seeing any adds since it hit the screen. I would hit the older croud during serious dramas to provoke interest.

gdmcbride
04-02-2009, 09:35 AM
I just want to say I have been waiting 22 years for this movie and saw it the first Saturday it was out, I loved the movie. I just hope some idiot doesn't say "let's make a sequal" of course with the ticket sales it doesn't look like it will happen. I think they needed to advertise on the TV more. I don't remeber seeing any adds since it hit the screen. I would hit the older croud during serious dramas to provoke interest.

I too had been waiting a long time for this movie. I too have the loved the graphic novel for a very long time. And while the movie wasn't a perfect adaptation (as if such was even possible), I definitely enjoyed it ... regardless of whether Hitler was disappointed about the squid.

I'm not sure I'd call the movie a financial failure. It's grossed over $100 million domestically in four weeks of release and remains in the top ten movies even now. Is that somehow now a failure?

Gary

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-02-2009, 10:24 AM
I too had been waiting a long time for this movie. I too have the loved the graphic novel for a very long time. And while the movie wasn't a perfect adaptation (as if such was even possible), I definitely enjoyed it ... regardless of whether Hitler was disappointed about the squid.

I'm not sure I'd call the movie a financial failure. It's grossed over $100 million domestically in four weeks of release and remains in the top ten movies even now. Is that somehow now a failure?

Gary
It did okay, but even if it brought in only &10,000,000, or less, in the box office, the movie industry makes the majority of its money off of foreigh dvd sales, therefore guaranteeing it a profit. Just a bit of trivia.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/class/images/banners/Sorcerer.jpg

tesral
04-02-2009, 11:00 AM
I'm not sure I'd call the movie a financial failure. It's grossed over $100 million domestically in four weeks of release and remains in the top ten movies even now. Is that somehow now a failure?

Gary

You don't do Hollyweird math do you? Pro tip: Never do a movie deal where you get a cut of the net, demand either a cut of the gross or a flat payment. Why? there will be no net. The accountant will fix the books to show no profit what so ever. That is Hollyweird math.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-02-2009, 11:18 AM
You don't do Hollyweird math do you? Pro tip: Never do a movie deal where you get a cut of the net, demand either a cut of the gross or a flat payment. Why? there will be no net. The accountant will fix the books to show no profit what so ever. That is Hollyweird math.
tesral makes a great point. I had a friend learn this the hard way. This move he invested in was a blockbuster, grossing hundreds of millions in the box office, not including foreign dvd sales I wished i remembered the movie's name, but oh well. Long story short, he got nothing, nada, not even a penny. So what tesral said is correct, choose gross, for if you choose net, you'll get nothing. Pretty currupt, those movie industry folks.

Kaewin
04-02-2009, 03:07 PM
When I said it didn't do well is the capparision as of last week it had only done $168 million at the box office where it cost about 165 million to make. Need more green if this kind of movie is to do well.

Frank Miller's Dark Night might be nice to see.

cigamnogard
04-02-2009, 03:51 PM
When I said it didn't do well is the capparision as of last week it had only done $168 million at the box office where it cost about 165 million to make. Need more green if this kind of movie is to do well.

Frank Miller's Dark Night might be nice to see.

It will become a cult classic and "fade" away....:yawn:

Kaewin
04-03-2009, 06:41 AM
And that truly is a shame. I can't wait to it comes to the cheaper theater in town, then I can motivate my wife to see it. I was going to take my daughter but a friend called me and warned about all of the nudity. She can wait until she is older for that.

cigamnogard
04-03-2009, 04:55 PM
I was going to take my daughter but a friend called me and warned about all of the nudity. She can wait until she is older for that.

Good thing you have that friend!

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-03-2009, 11:20 PM
I saw it today expecting nothing, but i must admit i enjoyed the whole movie, all three hours of it. Actually, it was outstanding. Anyone on the fence should check it out. I'm glad i went.

Kaewin
04-04-2009, 07:57 AM
Yes I am , it would have been hard to hold my hand over her face with ever scene Doc Manhatten was in.:biggrin:


I liked it better that Drak Knight, in DK I was aware that it was long but in Watchmen it seemed to pass rapidly. I was at Target the other day with my daughters killing time to pic up my son and the have the graphic novel just sitting on the shelf. I looked at the first issue and it seemed as if the scrip was word for word. I could here the actors voices when I read the dialogue, I liked that.

I just hope Allan Moore is pissed, maybe it will gte to be a sleeper hit.

GoddessGood
04-06-2009, 09:25 AM
I'm dying to hear what Rorshach sounds like. He has the most interesting speech pattern. Still not done with the graphic novel yet, but dangit I'm trying. I need more practice in reading comics.

Sascha
04-06-2009, 10:40 AM
I'm dying to hear what Rorshach sounds like. He has the most interesting speech pattern. Still not done with the graphic novel yet, but dangit I'm trying. I need more practice in reading comics.

Jackie Earle Haley's performance ranks right up there; he nails Rorschach's journal (and speech) patterns. 'Specially the speech in the beginning ... and the end ... and, well, the stuff in-between, too :P

Kaewin
04-06-2009, 12:21 PM
He sounds more gravelly than Bats does in DK. The actor portrays him really well.

cigamnogard
04-06-2009, 03:24 PM
What is with the gravelly voices?

Sascha
04-06-2009, 04:20 PM
What is with the gravelly voices?

Smoking, 'specially when young. Maybe Rorschach woulda ended up less ... erm, intense had he layed off the cigarettes, and focused on the baseball ;)

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s36/gray_sascha/KellyLeak.jpg

tesral
04-06-2009, 05:35 PM
What is with the gravelly voices?

In Batman I think he is trying to "hide" his voice.

Kaewin
04-06-2009, 06:54 PM
Rorshach's is to show unatachment to society. It seperates him from the herd.

cigamnogard
04-06-2009, 07:47 PM
Batman - can't he aford a voice changer?
Rorschach - cigerettes eh? Hmmmm...makes sense :)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-06-2009, 08:03 PM
I didnt mind the voice in either movie. It didnt take away from the quality at all. It's funny, i wouldnt have even thought about the voice thing if it wasnt for others.

I remember a large group that had a problem with our latest James Bond, and his hair being blonde. Kinda falls in the same category, i think.

Issue: No.
Personal Issue: To some.

Thoth's two duckets.

cigamnogard
04-06-2009, 08:12 PM
Blonde - er - Bond...but haven's several had brunette hair? (Can a guy be a brunette?)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-06-2009, 09:06 PM
Blonde - er - Bond...but haven's several had brunette hair? (Can a guy be a brunette?)
yep, but i think the complaints from the die-hard fans were that this actor was the first blonde James Bond.

Sascha
04-06-2009, 09:11 PM
Batman - can't he aford a voice changer?
Rorschach - cigerettes eh? Hmmmm...makes sense :)

More of an homage to the actor's "earle-ier" role ;) I don't actually recall Rorschach smoking in Watchmen.

GoddessGood
04-07-2009, 09:54 AM
Blonde - er - Bond...but haven's several had brunette hair? (Can a guy be a brunette?)
I'm pretty sure a guy can be a brunette, but he can't be blonde as only females are blonde. He can, however, be blond. The extra "e" is from French (I think) and is the same reason why you have a male Rene and a female Renee.


Batman - can't he aford a voice changer?
Rorschach - cigerettes eh? Hmmmm...makes sense :)
Batman can do anything. He's Batman. I think the voice may be as much of a mask as the mask they wear. It's a personality they slip into. Don't you talk with a bad British accent when you wear medieval/pirate gear? It's part of a persona. I think in Rorshach's case, he just became the persona and discarded who he "really" was, which is why he was so distressed to have "his face" taken away. Rorshach was real, Kovaks was the mask.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-07-2009, 10:17 AM
Hmm, i learn something everyday, GoddessGood. Thanks for the trivia.

Soft Serve
04-07-2009, 10:58 AM
Don't you talk with a bad British accent when you wear medieval/pirate gear?


NO!

(how is she finding this out?) :wacko:

Sascha
04-07-2009, 01:21 PM
I'm pretty sure a guy can be a brunette, but he can't be blonde as only females are blonde. He can, however, be blond. The extra "e" is from French (I think) and is the same reason why you have a male Rene and a female Renee.
Males can't be brunette, either, what with the "-ette" suffix. Instead, they're brunet.


I think in Rorshach's case, he just became the persona and discarded who he "really" was, which is why he was so distressed to have "his face" taken away. Rorshach was real, Kovaks was the mask.
After the Blair Roche incident, yes, Rorschach was the dominant face ... up until, arguably, the end of the story (which I consider to be *Kovaks'* Crowning Moment of Awesome).

cigamnogard
04-07-2009, 03:37 PM
Wow I feel considerably smarter after reading this post as well!

GoddessGood
04-07-2009, 03:58 PM
Males can't be brunette, either, what with the "-ette" suffix. Instead, they're brunet.
Pronounced broo-nay, or still broo-net?


After the Blair Roche incident, yes, Rorschach was the dominant face ... up until, arguably, the end of the story (which I consider to be *Kovaks'* Crowning Moment of Awesome).
I think the change in Kovaks really began when he admitted to his shrink what he really saw in those rorshach blots. From then on, you see him grow as a character at a startling rate. I loved the "crowning moment," as you said and it's one of my favorite parts in the story. I lingered over it longer than the conversation between Laurie and Dr. Manhattan on mars about the worth of human life.

cigamnogard
04-07-2009, 04:09 PM
Is that the prison scene?

Sascha
04-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Pronounced broo-nay, or still broo-net?
broo-net


I think the change in Kovaks really began when he admitted to his shrink what he really saw in those rorshach blots. From then on, you see him grow as a character at a startling rate. I loved the "crowning moment," as you said and it's one of my favorite parts in the story. I lingered over it longer than the conversation between Laurie and Dr. Manhattan on mars about the worth of human life.
Yeah, Rorschach's almost the hero you need in the story, as a viewer, but ... the last person you'd want to be a moral example. His black-and-white ethos is scary, in and of itself, and combined with his ugly prejudices, it's downright terrifying. Darned deconstructions.

Still, Watchmen is full of Crowning Moments of Awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMoment/Watchmen) - warning: spoilers do exist, for those who haven't read/seen it yet.

cigamnogard
04-07-2009, 06:27 PM
Nah it's the prsion scene! When he says the best line in the movie.

tesral
04-07-2009, 06:48 PM
broo-net


Is there a Broo we need to catch?

cigamnogard
04-07-2009, 06:55 PM
Is there a Broo we need to catch?
Most likely ;)

GoddessGood
04-08-2009, 09:37 AM
broo-net


Yeah, Rorschach's almost the hero you need in the story, as a viewer, but ... the last person you'd want to be a moral example. His black-and-white ethos is scary, in and of itself, and combined with his ugly prejudices, it's downright terrifying. Darned deconstructions.

Still, Watchmen is full of Crowning Moments of Awesome (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/CrowningMoment/Watchmen) - warning: spoilers do exist, for those who haven't read/seen it yet.
Thanks for that fantastic link. It helped me refresh a lot of what I liked about the comic. Originally, Dr. Manhattan was my favorite character, but on reflection it's Rorshach that I connect with the most. I guess I sort of need a character to care about something to be interesting.

Is there a Broo we need to catch?
It is pitch black. You are likely to be netted by a Broo.

Sascha
04-08-2009, 10:52 AM
Thanks for that fantastic link. It helped me refresh a lot of what I liked about the comic. Originally, Dr. Manhattan was my favorite character, but on reflection it's Rorshach that I connect with the most. I guess I sort of need a character to care about something to be interesting.
Yep, I feel the same way. Dr. Manhattan's indifference to humanity (for the most part) provides that foil to Rorschach's determination; without one, the other's characterization is lessened.

GoddessGood
04-08-2009, 10:56 AM
Yep, I feel the same way. Dr. Manhattan's indifference to humanity (for the most part) provides that foil to Rorschach's determination; without one, the other's characterization is lessened.
The Manhattan backstory arc just ended up making me sad. The man was driven into his profession, never really had a passion for the thing that ultimately killed what was left of his humanity. I like to think he stopped being human (or at least started down the de-humanizing path) when his father threw out the watch he was working on. The message was clear: what you thought was important means nothing.

Simplydone
04-08-2009, 11:09 AM
SPOILER WARNING

As a long-time comic book and superhero movie fan, I am far on the other side of the fence.

I thought the acting in the movie was horrendous. The only character that I felt any connection to was Rorshach, a psychopath with an annoying raspy voice. The character development for everyone else was underwhelming and their personalities were bland.

The action scenes (especially in the jail) were cool. Other than that, there was too much dull talking. They could have cut out half the dialogue (and probably a half-hour out of the movie) and wouldn't have lost anything in the translation.

Now, I'm a red-blooded american guy who likes violence and sex as much as anyone, but there were a few scenes that were simply offensive to me (not to mention my poor wife). The rape scene, the pregnant woman getting shot, and the little girl being eaten by dogs (not to mention the brutal killing of the dogs) were completely unnecessary for the story. It takes a seriously sick individual to actually enjoy those scenes.

The sex scenes were clumsy, uncomfortable, and not sexy at all. With sex and this much full-frontal nudity (all male, by the way. I think I saw one lady's nipple all movie, but plenty of blue and normal wang and butts to last me a lifetime) this should have been rated NC-17 at the very least. Was there any good reason for the blue guy to not be wearing his speedo? Why did they have to show him from the waste down so much anyways? DO NOT TAKE KIDS.

The song choices throughout the entire movie were poor. Slow, cheesy songs during fight scenes ("Unforgettable" during the first fight scene) and awesome, rock and roll songs during scenes when they are just walking (when they are walking in the snow it's playing Jimi Hendrix "All Along the Watchtower", what a waste of a good song)

Look, I get the movie. I get that they wanted to stay true to the graphic novel. However, to me this movie isn't much more than a superhero porno. I guess I'd have to be a fanboy to really appreciate it.

The best part of the movie was the opening credits (which were a cool background montage). You can now see those online for free (http://io9.com/5166169/the-best-part-of-watchmen-online-now). After that, it was all downhill.

You have to remember good sir that the Watchman was and still is Alan Moores attempt to completely destroy the idea, of not only the superhero, but the idea of heroes in general. IN that regard both the book and the film do a brilliant job of doing so. All those scenes you mentioned were targeted at dehumanizing the reader pointing out that in this work there is no good or innocence only varying degrees of guilt. I mean seriously just take a look at the Comedian; That guy is the very definition of A$%&ole. He cares for nothing, displays the very worst impulses in humanity, and when you look back on his death I'm sure someone breathed a sigh of relief or said "Good riddance". Personally while I can apperciate the work I differ with Mr. Moores opinion on humanity and heroes.

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 03:16 PM
Wow...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-08-2009, 03:37 PM
You have to remember good sir that the Watchman was and still is Alan Moores attempt to completely destroy the idea, of not only the superhero, but the idea of heroes in general. IN that regard both the book and the film do a brilliant job of doing so. All those scenes you mentioned were targeted at dehumanizing the reader pointing out that in this work there is no good or innocence only varying degrees of guilt. I mean seriously just take a look at the Comedian; That guy is the very definition of A$%&ole. He cares for nothing, displays the very worst impulses in humanity, and when you look back on his death I'm sure someone breathed a sigh of relief or said "Good riddance". Personally while I can apperciate the work I differ with Mr. Moores opinion on humanity and heroes.
Well written paragraph blurb, Simplydone.

I would probably fall more closely in line with Moore's view on humans and heros. My view of the human race, with rare and few exceptions: in general, mankind is a cancerous boil, a blight on the world.

This view great depths to draw from with all my campaigns, which is why i like 'em dark and gritty.

Thoth's 10 rules of dark and gritty:

In my games, there are a few constants to be aware of:

1) The world isnt always fair.
2) Good doesnt always triumph over evil.
3) To call human beings rats is an insult to rats.
4) People lie for no reason.
5) Ignorance (and its sister, superstition) reigns supreme.
6) Careful who you trust, for you know not others secret ambitions.
7) Always watch your back.
8) Even Kings, Generals, and Hero's can die by food poisening, so use your wisdom.
9) What truly is good and evil? No two persons can ever agree when perspectives are argued.
10) "There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world." -and- "There are older and fouler things than humans living in the dark corners of the Universe."

It's a mirror image of the world we live in, isnt it? Scarrrry. :mad:

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 04:03 PM
Well written paragraph blurb, Simplydone.


That's what I meant with "Wow"!

Sascha
04-08-2009, 04:04 PM
The Manhattan backstory arc just ended up making me sad. The man was driven into his profession, never really had a passion for the thing that ultimately killed what was left of his humanity. I like to think he stopped being human (or at least started down the de-humanizing path) when his father threw out the watch he was working on. The message was clear: what you thought was important means nothing.
Yepyep, leading to my favoritest Manhattan line:

'In the end'? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.


10) "There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world." -and- "There are older and fouler things than humans living in the dark corners of the Universe."
"This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face."

tesral
04-08-2009, 05:14 PM
I would probably fall more closely in line with Moore's view on humans and heros. My view of the human race, with rare and few exceptions: in general, mankind is a cancerous boil, a blight on the world.

Yet I will point out that evil done makes the news because it is rare. The common good never does, because it is common.

One can concentrate on the negative and fail to see the vast majority of decent and good people that go about their lives without ever making the evening news.

We are talking about people that spend their time wallowing in the filth. So blinded by the darkness they fail to see the sun.

"To a man with just a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Examine your reactions. If they are always the same, look to your tools for coping, or rather your lack of same." -- The Tao of Phoenix

Also

"A blind man expects than no one else can see." -- The Tao of Phoenix

So I have to ask, is the lesson in the end that man is evil, or that you get what you expect to find?"

GoddessGood
04-08-2009, 05:25 PM
Yepyep, leading to my favoritest Manhattan line:

'In the end'? Nothing ends, Adrian. Nothing ever ends.


"This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face."
Indeed. This story is as full of good lines as it is of cheese.

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 05:44 PM
TRue but I still say the prison scene is fantastic wher he he says to all the prisoners:

"I am not trapped in here with you - you are all trapped in here with me!"

GoddessGood
04-08-2009, 05:46 PM
Nah, the best is when Nite Owl and Laurie are complaining to him how they have to hurry and he excuses himself to (go kill someone in) the bathroom :). Classic.

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 05:55 PM
Yeah, that was all right - especially with the door swinging :biggrin:

Sascha
04-08-2009, 06:00 PM
TRue but I still say the prison scene is fantastic wher he he says to all the prisoners:

"I am not trapped in here with you - you are all trapped in here with me!"
Fantastic bit, yep, 'specially with all the buildup over Rorschach's true face. Still, I'd say his best lines are written, not spoken:

on a card, in Moloch's fridge: "Behind You"

Or from his journal:

"On Friday night, a Comedian died in New York. Someone threw him out of a window and when he hit the sidewalk his head was driven up into his stomach. Nobody cares. Nobody cares but me."

"For my own part, regret nothing. Have lived life, free from compromise ... and step into the shadow now without complaint."

GoddessGood
04-08-2009, 06:02 PM
C'mon though, you can't forget the bit at the end where he has the last laugh ;)

Sascha
04-08-2009, 06:04 PM
C'mon though, you can't forget the bit at the end where he has the last laugh ;)
Did he, though? It's quite possible nothing comes of it, what given who and where. ;) (Of course, I still read it as the last laugh, but again, Rorschach *is* his namesake :P)

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 06:05 PM
That was perfect!

GoddessGood
04-08-2009, 06:08 PM
I dunno. I was all set to right it off as a depressing novel until that twist at the end.

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 06:09 PM
Just the trend in movies Bankok Dangerous...and others

Sascha
04-08-2009, 06:11 PM
Yep, between Manhattan's comments (quoted a bit up-thread) and the very, very end, I'd like to think it all gets resolved a certain way, but ... ;)

It's the same reason the end of Cowboy Bebop tugs at me so. ^_^

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 06:38 PM
Cowboy Bebop tugs at me so. ^_^

:confused:
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Oh:
Further information: List of Cowboy Bebop episodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cowboy_Bebop_episodes)
The crew of the spaceship Bebop are a partnership of bounty hunters, called "cowboys", who travel the solar system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_system) trying to apprehend bounties. Jet Black is the owner of the Bebop, but has partnered with Spike for his diverse combat skills. Though he is reluctant to admit it, Jet has also come to rely on Spike for companionship in the normally solitary field of bounty hunting. The entire system is open to them via the Gates, but they regularly spend much of their time on Mars, the new hub of human civilization.
Most episodes revolve around attempts to bring in a specific bounty, but the show often shares its focus with the pasts of each of the main characters and of more general past events, which are revealed and brought together as the series progresses. Some of the Bebop's varied targets include small time thugs, gangsters, hackers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(computing)) (known as "Net Divers" in slang), religious leaders, psychopaths, genetic experiments, mutant creatures and petty thieves.

taken from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_Bebop

Sascha
04-08-2009, 06:57 PM
:confused:
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Oh:
Further information: List of Cowboy Bebop episodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cowboy_Bebop_episodes)
The crew of the spaceship Bebop are a partnership of bounty hunters, called "cowboys", who travel the solar system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_system) trying to apprehend bounties. Jet Black is the owner of the Bebop, but has partnered with Spike for his diverse combat skills. Though he is reluctant to admit it, Jet has also come to rely on Spike for companionship in the normally solitary field of bounty hunting. The entire system is open to them via the Gates, but they regularly spend much of their time on Mars, the new hub of human civilization.
Most episodes revolve around attempts to bring in a specific bounty, but the show often shares its focus with the pasts of each of the main characters and of more general past events, which are revealed and brought together as the series progresses. Some of the Bebop's varied targets include small time thugs, gangsters, hackers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_%28computing%29) (known as "Net Divers" in slang), religious leaders, psychopaths, genetic experiments, mutant creatures and petty thieves.

taken from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_Bebop

The last last episode, The Real Folk Blues, Pt. 2, ends on an ... ambiguous note, to the point that the creator is rather unsure of the outcome. Like Watchmen. Only less superhero-deconstruction awesome, and decidedly more space-western awesome. (Though I took the less optimistic view, the first run-through of Bebop, hehe.)

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 07:01 PM
Have not watched any of them - what happens?

Sascha
04-08-2009, 07:31 PM
Have not watched any of them - what happens?
It's worth watching; I highly recommend it ;) But, for those who want the answer:
We never actually *see* Spike die, but we don't see him get up and walk away, either. When asked about it, Shinichiro Watanabe just gives the Shrug of God (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShrugOfGod).

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 07:35 PM
I hate the shrug of god!:biggrin:

Sascha
04-08-2009, 07:37 PM
I love it, really; gives rise to great discussions ^_^

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 07:46 PM
Nah, I had to explain way too many endings and such. Such as :
12 Monkeys

GoddessGood
04-08-2009, 07:53 PM
One of the most moving anime music videos I've ever seen is of Cowboy Bebop's interaction between Julia and Spike set to Carlos Varela's Una Palabra. Makes me tear up. I've seen Ballad of the Fallen Angel way too many times, though.

cigamnogard
04-08-2009, 08:02 PM
Cowboy Bebop sounds like he is a Bukairoo Banzia guy

Sascha
04-08-2009, 08:10 PM
One of the most moving anime music videos I've ever seen is of Cowboy Bebop's interaction between Julia and Spike set to Carlos Varela's Una Palabra. Makes me tear up. I've seen Ballad of the Fallen Angel way too many times, though.
Yeah, I saw a Strawberry Panic Nagisa/Shizuma tribute set to Sixpence None the Richer's "Kiss Me." Tease til the end, /sigh ... so good, though. Gave me a new respect for the song, at the very least :P

Still, "Blue" being belted out as we leave Earth's atmosphere is all that's required to get me to tear up; then again, half that soundtrack's in my "got the blues" iTunes playlist, hehe (and the rest is in the regular mix, too~!).

(Best non-serious one was the Evangelion/Sealab 2020 "Tinfins" mashup; hilarious seeing Gendo with Captain Murphy's lines ^_^)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-08-2009, 10:40 PM
Yet I will point out that evil done makes the news because it is rare. The common good never does, because it is common.

One can concentrate on the negative and fail to see the vast majority of decent and good people that go about their lives without ever making the evening news.

We are talking about people that spend their time wallowing in the filth. So blinded by the darkness they fail to see the sun.

"To a man with just a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Examine your reactions. If they are always the same, look to your tools for coping, or rather your lack of same." -- The Tao of Phoenix

Also

"A blind man expects than no one else can see." -- The Tao of Phoenix

So I have to ask, is the lesson in the end that man is evil, or that you get what you expect to find?"
Platitudes mean nothing to me, for they have no real meaning except to the originators professing them.

Man is imperfect, and does express evil tendencies on a daily basis. To ignore this is foolish. I base my perspectives on observations.

You could point out a good man, and i could still find his proverbial price. Of couse, this world is a school for all of us. Good isnt suppose to prevail, for if we were perfect, we wouldnt be here.

tesral
04-08-2009, 11:30 PM
Man is imperfect, and does express evil tendencies on a daily basis. To ignore this is foolish. I base my perspectives on observations.

You could point out a good man, and i could still find his proverbial price. Of couse, this world is a school for all of us. Good isnt suppose to prevail, for if we were perfect, we wouldnt be here.

Imperfection does not mean worthless or the worst one can be. The finest diamond has imperfections, but is no less beautiful because of it. I believe that perfection is a corrosive idea. That one has to be perfect to be good when you cannot get perfect. Good enough is often good enough.

Would you reject a steel beam as not strong if it had a breaking strain of 10 tons, and you application only required 2? After all 10 tons will cause that beam to fail, it isn't perfect.

If you concentrate on the flaws, flaws is all you will see. You will miss the large majority of people that are kind and good by narrowing your focus on the few that are not.

As to price. Some men don't have one. It might sound naive to you, but I have seen it. Not everyone "has their price". And even those that do, you will never be able to pay it.

Platitudes? Isn't "every man has his price" a platitude as well? But you are willing to accept that one as it is in line with your own views. To dismiss something in that fashion is never wise. I am quite sure there is a logical fallacy to match it.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-09-2009, 12:48 AM
Imperfection does not mean worthless or the worst one can be. The finest diamond has imperfections, but is no less beautiful because of it. I believe that perfection is a corrosive idea. That one has to be perfect to be good when you cannot get perfect. Good enough is often good enough.

Would you reject a steel beam as not strong if it had a breaking strain of 10 tons, and you application only required 2? After all 10 tons will cause that beam to fail, it isn't perfect.

If you concentrate on the flaws, flaws is all you will see. You will miss the large majority of people that are kind and good by narrowing your focus on the few that are not.

As to price. Some men don't have one. It might sound naive to you, but I have seen it. Not everyone "has their price". And even those that do, you will never be able to pay it.

Platitudes? Isn't "every man has his price" a platitude as well? But you are willing to accept that one as it is in line with your own views. To dismiss something in that fashion is never wise. I am quite sure there is a logical fallacy to match it.
Wow! You lost all credibility at your fifth word, tesral. Where did i ever use the word worthless? By putting words in others mouths(your little evil tendency/your price) in the desperate attempt to make a case, you only offer support for my case, thereby proving my point.

Regarding the rest of your comments, they are assumptions, and you know what they say about assumptions? Pretty desperate trying to make a case based off of assumptions.

The opinions i gave are just that, mine. Only reason it ruffles your feathers is that at some deep level you realize a bit of truth in them.

You wont win this one, tesral. :yawn:

tesral
04-09-2009, 01:10 AM
The opinions i gave are just that, mine. Only reason it ruffles your feathers is that at some deep level you realize a bit of truth in them.

No, I don't see truth in it. It bothers me when people concentrate on the negative. Life is too short to look at the negative side.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-09-2009, 01:44 AM
No, I don't see truth in it. It bothers me when people concentrate on the negative. Life is too short to look at the negative side.
Again with the assumptions, tesral. I dont look at the negative side either. That's just another assumption made on your part.

Recognizing/an awareness of/ the human condition with all its faults isnt concentrating on the negative, its the recognition of reality.

Now for the question i pose to you: Why does my opinion bother you so?

...its a rhetorical question, tesral, meant to inspire self-reflection.

You wont win this one, brother. Now, let's go play some Dungeons and Dragons and kill some Orc'ses.

GoddessGood
04-09-2009, 08:31 AM
;) You fellas stay up too late.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-09-2009, 09:52 AM
;) You fellas stay up too late.
...or are we up to early, GoddessGood? Perhaps that is the real question. :rolleyes:

Sascha
04-09-2009, 10:36 AM
...or are we up to early, GoddessGood? Perhaps that is the real question. :rolleyes:
To be or not to be ... that is the question. (The answer, of course, is 42. :D)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-09-2009, 10:38 AM
To be or not to be ... that is the question. (The answer, of course, is 42. :D)
But yet we feel like 24. :rolleyes:

Kaewin
04-09-2009, 10:39 AM
Don't I wish, then I could go on 4hrs sleep.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Don't I wish, then I could go on 4hrs sleep.
Who needs sleep, overrated. Elves are onto something with their reverie. Lucid, controlled, dreaming all the way. No more slices of death. Yeah!

GoddessGood
04-09-2009, 10:51 AM
Lol, back to topic. I think I'm going to try and see the movie tonight. Now to check and see if it's actually still showing ...

Kaewin
04-09-2009, 01:22 PM
A good theater should have it. If you can catch it in Imax go for it.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-09-2009, 01:37 PM
Yep, it's still out. I didnt see it on Imax, but if you get the chance, go Imax.

cigamnogard
04-09-2009, 02:01 PM
Enjoy Goddess!

Simplydone
04-09-2009, 02:01 PM
Yet I will point out that evil done makes the news because it is rare. The common good never does, because it is common.

One can concentrate on the negative and fail to see the vast majority of decent and good people that go about their lives without ever making the evening news.

We are talking about people that spend their time wallowing in the filth. So blinded by the darkness they fail to see the sun.

"To a man with just a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Examine your reactions. If they are always the same, look to your tools for coping, or rather your lack of same." -- The Tao of Phoenix

Also

"A blind man expects than no one else can see." -- The Tao of Phoenix

So I have to ask, is the lesson in the end that man is evil, or that you get what you expect to find?"

Now that is deep. And I agree it is very easy to label all humanity as tainted or any other label for that matter. One must always look past the label and judge a person by their actions for that is, in a sense, the only way we can truly say we exist.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-09-2009, 02:34 PM
Thoth hears kissing sounds

Simplydone
04-09-2009, 03:33 PM
Simply hears Thoth flushing his humanity down the drain. But to each their own.

cigamnogard
04-09-2009, 03:35 PM
That reminds me of taking my daugter to the 1st Lord of The Rings, the scene with Aargorn and the elf maiden when they kiss. My daughter was I think 8 or 9 and the entire audience was quiet when she commented with :"EEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwww"
All three rows around us lost it :D
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Thoth hears kissing sounds...
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Simply hears Thoth flushing his humanity down the drain. But to each their own.
Really?

tesral
04-09-2009, 03:36 PM
That reminds me of taking my daugter to the 1st Lord of The Rings, the scene with Aargorn and the elf maiden when they kiss. My daughter was I think 8 or 9 and the entire audience was quiet when she commented with :"EEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwww"
All three rows around us lost it :D
...

Good thing I wasn't there. I would be down on the floor looking for it too.

cigamnogard
04-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Good thing I wasn't there. I would be down on the floor looking for it too.

Doesn't surprise me at all.

Sascha
04-09-2009, 03:46 PM
That reminds me of taking my daugter to the 1st Lord of The Rings, the scene with Aargorn and the elf maiden when they kiss. My daughter was I think 8 or 9 and the entire audience was quiet when she commented with :"EEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwww"
All three rows around us lost it :D


The Grandson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000625/): [interrupting] Hold it, hold it. What is this? Are you trying to trick me? Where's the sports? [suspiciously] Is this a kissing book?

cigamnogard
04-09-2009, 03:48 PM
The Grandson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000625/): [interrupting] Hold it, hold it. What is this? Are you trying to trick me? Where's the sports? [suspiciously] Is this a kissing book?
Fantastic movie! Great tribute as well to his grandpa nd his son for having to read the real book!

Sascha
04-09-2009, 04:00 PM
Fantastic movie! Great tribute as well to his grandpa nd his son for having to read the real book!
Funny thing is, my roommate hadn't seen it until last Christmas; we had to fix that, fast ... now she owns it ;)

cigamnogard
04-09-2009, 04:07 PM
Funny thing is, my roommate hadn't seen it until last Christmas; we had to fix that, fast ... now she owns it ;)
I highly recommend the rewritten book. It has extended scenes:
Giant
Sworsdman
Pit of Dispair

tesral
04-09-2009, 05:17 PM
Funny thing is, my roommate hadn't seen it until last Christmas; we had to fix that, fast ... now she owns it ;)


Directors editions. I have them. It's a whole freaking DAY to watch that thing through.

cigamnogard
04-09-2009, 05:25 PM
Directors editions. I have them. It's a whole freaking DAY to watch that thing through.
Those scenes are only in the book as far as I know.

Goreaddict
04-09-2009, 08:23 PM
read a few post >.> most were TL;DR for my interest, BUT...

I have the graphic novel I've read it twice (the squid went over my head the first time....) and i keep hearing the movies good still haven't seen it, though. I like Zach Snyder's work A LOT and I've heard the ending was changed i watched an interview and Zach explained why the ending change was necessary and it made sense,
(the point...anti-TL;DR)
but is the movie worth watching now in movie theaters or waiting for it on dvd to rent? Also does the new ending mess up the movie or is it acceptable?

Sascha
04-09-2009, 11:12 PM
read a few post >.> most were TL;DR for my interest, BUT...

I have the graphic novel I've read it twice (the squid went over my head the first time....) and i keep hearing the movies good still haven't seen it, though. I like Zach Snyder's work A LOT and I've heard the ending was changed i watched an interview and Zach explained why the ending change was necessary and it made sense,
(the point...anti-TL;DR)
but is the movie worth watching now in movie theaters or waiting for it on dvd to rent? Also does the new ending mess up the movie or is it acceptable?
Honestly, I thought the movie ending was better, heh. It's worth seeing in the theater, if any movie is; then again, I like having the crowd-reaction as part of the experience ^_^
Giant space-squid from nowhere? Really, that was your plan, Adrian? <manhattan> I am disappointed, Very disappointed. </manhattan>

Kaewin
04-10-2009, 09:34 AM
I enjoyed it, I would see it again with my wife if I had the money, we have three kids it hard to get to the movie, it was the first time I went to a movie without the family in years.

I like the new ending as it fits pretty well with the story line.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-10-2009, 10:33 AM
I'm not aware of the 'old' ending. Anyone want to share?

Sascha
04-10-2009, 11:05 AM
I'm not aware of the 'old' ending. Anyone want to share?

Veidt creates a giant psychic space squid to threaten humanity into world peace.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-10-2009, 11:14 AM
Youre kidding, right? I mean, i can see the humor in your answer. That, and it doesnt fit. Good one, though. :lol:

Sascha
04-10-2009, 05:50 PM
Youre kidding, right? I mean, i can see the humor in your answer. That, and it doesnt fit. Good one, though. :lol:
Despite protests to the contrary (hush up, me!), I'm not that funny. :P

Actually, look at the McGuffin in the film ...

the Sub-QUantum Intrinsic Device: S.QU.I.D.

Goreaddict
04-10-2009, 06:36 PM
Despite protests to the contrary (hush up, me!), I'm not that funny. :P

Actually, look at the McGuffin in the film ...

the Sub-QUantum Intrinsic Device: S.QU.I.D.
yeah the squid really is the ending to the novels it sounds retarded but once you read it a few times it makes sense >.<

Sascha
04-10-2009, 09:21 PM
Symbolism aside, I still prefer the film version; same essential goal, same perpetrator, same optipessimitic ending :P

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-12-2009, 01:07 AM
I cant really invision the squid sequence. Guess i'll have to give it a read through to get a better idea. Until then, i'll take everyones word for it.

Still though, i did enjoy the movie more than i ever would have expected. If anyone here hasnt seen it yet and is on the fence, go see it. You will be pleasantly surprised.

Kaewin
04-13-2009, 01:58 PM
It was one of those things a movie audaince wouldn't like.

cigamnogard
04-13-2009, 04:34 PM
It was one of those things a movie audaince wouldn't like.
Bingo

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
04-13-2009, 05:51 PM
I would tend to agree, but will refrain on giving an official opinion considering i havent read the novel.

GoddessGood
04-14-2009, 03:00 PM
Still have yet to see it :( Maybe sometime this week ...

Goreaddict
04-15-2009, 08:10 PM
Bingohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I0LfvSJchk

an interview they discuss a lot about the movie, including the ending. He just says he changed the ending because with the novel you can turn back and reread the squid part til you get it, but in a movie theater you can't. So it needed to be changed in order to keep the lesser minded and non fan boys attention.

GoddessGood
04-16-2009, 07:51 AM
Well, at least they had a good reason. Or, at least one I agree with. Lol, with all the special effects budget they threw around on this one, I wouldn't be surprised if all they had money left for was a Cthulhu plushie.