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ronpyatt
02-22-2009, 06:53 PM
Prompted from another thread that dipped into potentially distasteful origins, I wondered what halfbreeds were out there for us to enjoy.

These were the most obvious to me:
Half-orc (human & orc)
Half-elf (human & elf)
Half-ogre (human & ogre)
Half-mer (human & merfolk)
Half-dragon (human & dragon)
Half-illithid (human & illithid)
Half-gnoll (human & gnoll)

What can you add to this list?

This answers the fantasy question: Can a human fall in love with just about anything? (The answer is yes. It's fantasy.)

Valdar
02-22-2009, 07:13 PM
Planar types:

Half-fiend
Half-celestial
Feyri (drow/fiend) - not really half-
Tanarukk (orc/fiend) - ditto-
Genasi (human/elemental) - also ditto-

I also thought that half-ogres were orc/ogre typically-

kirksmithicus
02-22-2009, 07:39 PM
Your list prompts an interesting question. Why are all (or mostly all) half-breeds, 1/2 human. If humans can interbreed with Orcs and Elves, why have there never been any 1/2 Orc/Elven races, and so on.

spotlight
02-22-2009, 09:14 PM
Ahh.. interesting thought. Recently I read something that intimated that not all half-elves were half-human. The same could be said for half-orcs. As for other half-breed types, I have seen players request to play some really odd things. Like half-kobold, what's up with that?

kirksmithicus
02-22-2009, 11:02 PM
So what would you call a Elf/Orc hybrid? An Erc maybe? What about a Dwarf/Orc hybrid? How about a Dorc? Elf/Dwarf = Erf or Dwelf?

A deadly encounter with a Hillbillithid, "why can hear banjo music as you devour my brain?"
--- Merged from Double Post ---
So I did some searching online and found the following

Muls are the mixed-breed offspring of humans and dwarves in the Dark Sun campaign setting. The term mul is derived from "mule" which are sterile hybrids, and as such the word is meant to be pronounced in the same manner (rhyming with "rule" rather than "dull").

Women who give birth to muls tend to be human and die in childbirth. Muls are bred for gladiatorial combat and slave labor. Athasian muls are hairless, about 6 feet tall, retain the agility of their human parent while manifesting the strength and industrious mindset of their dwarven parent.

The stamina of a mul is legendary; muls can literally work or march for days nonstop.

The term "mul" has been unofficially adopted into other campaign settings for rare human-dwarf crossbreeds.

and

An orog is a crossbreed between a male orc and a female ogre. Orogs usually live among orcs; they are stronger, more intelligent, and more highly disciplined than typical orcs.

Variants on the orog include the neo-orog and the ogrillion. The neo-orog is a specific orc-ogre crossbreed created by the Red Wizards of Thay to be used as elite soldiers. The ogrillion is the brutish, armor-skinned offspring of a female orc and a male ogre.

Rochin
02-23-2009, 08:53 AM
Ahh.. interesting thought. Recently I read something that intimated that not all half-elves were half-human. The same could be said for half-orcs. As for other half-breed types, I have seen players request to play some really odd things. Like half-kobold, what's up with that?


Some of us(ok maybe just me) love to be the most bizzare PC we can. I almost never play a race from the PHB(unless forced). I enjoy the challange of trying to play something far different than myself. In DND 2E I when crazy when the humaniods book came out. As soon as that book hit my hands, normal PCs were never heard of again by myself. I have played many, many strange and interesting races. I do like that in 4E they have a few non standard races in there(about the only thing I like aobut 4E) and that keeps things interesting. To me, why play a game as a human when I play one every day in real life.

ronpyatt
02-23-2009, 09:01 AM
Our group has a hippogryph / half-orc fighter.

GoddessGood
02-23-2009, 10:31 AM
Weren't the Tolkien Uruk-hai supposed to be half orc-half goblin?

Shale
02-23-2009, 10:25 PM
How about Dwelfs - crosses between dwarf and elf?

Or, most realistically, half-dwarf, half-orc, or goblin. Why should only humans and elfs have the, er, fun?

fmitchell
02-23-2009, 11:03 PM
Weren't the Tolkien Uruk-hai supposed to be half orc-half goblin?

Goblins and orcs are the same race/species in Tolkien. He never spelled it out, but some believe the Uruk-hai were a half-human half-orc hybrid.

On DriveThruRPG I remember seeing a d20 supplement ringing through all the combinations of PC races. (7 races -> 21 types of hybrid, I believe.) I'll see if I can find it again, although a number of publishers (notably Fantasy Flight Games) have pulled all their d20 material. Damn GSL.

EDIT: Here it is: "Races of Consequence" (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=23387). Also, I forgot that one of the primary "races" is half-elves, so, including full-blood orcs in the mix, we'd have 6 pure races, or 15 combinations.

thirdkingdom
02-24-2009, 10:26 AM
How come nobody every mentions half-halflings (humans and halflings). Would they be "quarterlings", or "three-quarterlings"?

Todd

Jymy
02-24-2009, 11:56 AM
There is a book for 3.5 called Bastards and Bloodlines. It talks about all kinds of wild 1/2 races and gives various reasons for them to exist as well. It was one of the rare books that I was exceptionally happy to find at my local shop. Give it a look, I am sure you'll not be disappointed.

ronpyatt
02-25-2009, 09:48 AM
Oh, I nearly forgot that we had a 1/4 Human, 1/4 Demon, 1/4 Astral Dragon, 1/4 Celestial PC named Harmonious.

GoddessGood
02-25-2009, 10:07 AM
Oh, I nearly forgot that we had a 1/4 Human, 1/4 Demon, 1/4 Astral Dragon, 1/4 Celestial PC named Harmonious.
:shocked: That's a heck of a family reunion.

boulet
02-25-2009, 10:13 AM
:shocked: That's a heck of a family reunion.
I thought it was a cocktail. It should come with either an olive or a cute umbrella.

ronpyatt
02-25-2009, 10:28 AM
I thought it was a cocktail. It should come with either an olive or a cute umbrella.

Yep. Imagine having to deal with all 4 of your fathers at once. :eek: You'd need more than one cocktail to get through the reunion.

GoddessGood
02-25-2009, 10:35 AM
Yep. Imagine having to deal with all 4 of your fathers at once. :eek: You'd need more than one cocktail to get through the reunion.
Four fathers? There be more here than meets the eye, methinks. Shenanigans!

nijineko
02-25-2009, 12:24 PM
i was under the impression that the uruk-hai were corrupted elves mixed with goblinoid blood.

but in any case... perhaps adding a special racial ability to humans: crossbreedability. (really should find a better name. ^^ but i was trying for something that was not immediately prone to certain kinds of puns. no, that is not a challenge....) humans have the ability in worlds with high enough magical ambience to interbreed with almost anything. the trait of a young 'unfinished' race as the older races might put it. some villains might even take advantage of such flexibility to mix races that might otherwise be incompatible... or shouldn't be mixed for very good reasons.... sort of a mix of soylent green, island of doctor moreau, and gatica.

or you could take the xanth approach, and make everything theoretically compatible... they even had an "accommodation" spell or potion effect for the... ahhh... more "difficult" pairings.

GoddessGood
02-25-2009, 12:27 PM
i was under the impression that the uruk-hai were corrupted elves mixed with goblinoid blood.

I was under the impression that orcs = corrupted elves ... amirite? Could be mixing my Tolkien up with a homebrew ...

Also, definitely need to get back into the xanth books :)

spotlight
02-25-2009, 12:50 PM
It has been well over 35 years sence I read 'The Two Towers', but the recent movies did spicify. The Uruk-hai are decended from the elves. In the words of the evil white wizard, "You have been perfected."

In an article I read recently, don't recall where, it itimated that half-elves are called that because they resemble the elf side of the family. If they appear what ever the other half race is, they are called that race. The article seemed to imply that half-elves are called that because they looked like elves. Thus also implying that half-elves can be of ANY other race.

The only thing I find weird about that is only the orcs were dicribed, in the original D&D, as being fecund, not the elves.
--- Merged from Double Post ---
One more little point while I am thinking of it. I dislike letting players been multible races, other than half-breeds. It seems in natural biology that many, if they can enter breed at all, would only produce mules. In other words, many half-breed characters would be incapable of produceing offspring to make quarter races. But each DM to his own!!

fmitchell
02-25-2009, 02:38 PM
One more little point while I am thinking of it. I dislike letting players been multible races, other than half-breeds. It seems in natural biology that many, if they can enter breed at all, would only produce mules. In other words, many half-breed characters would be incapable of produceing offspring to make quarter races.

Well, it depends whether "races" really are the same species with wildly different phenotypes -- think dog breeds -- or actually separate species. Depending on where you draw the species lines, half-elves and half-orcs might be fertile.

OTOH, half-lizardmen and half-hippogriffs (itself a legendarily absurd crossbreed) are just plain silly from where I sit. A half-dragon is possible if dragons can adopt a fully human form, but considering the squicky asexual reproductive cycle of illithids, a half-illithid is also impossible.

Yes, magic can make anything possible ... but in mythology, "halfbreeds" were usually the offspring of mortals and gods (or quasi-divine beings). Especially since I prefer mostly-human worlds, I'd prefer to start with a human and add a bit of otherness, rather than allow a feathered-and-scaled freak wandering the world without anyone making a fuss.

spotlight
02-25-2009, 02:55 PM
In part yes, in part no. The 'mule' effect is clear. A donkey bred to a horse produces the well know mule, unable to reproduce in it self. A dog, though of different 'breed' is still a dog. different species and same species, respectively.

Another example: navel oranges, no seeds, same as making a creature through majic, High enough tech resembles majic rule. But in fantacy, well, it is still fantacy. What ever the GM allows, more power to the player. I just like to have logical limits to some things.

Malruhn
02-25-2009, 10:04 PM
My world is very Tolkien-esque, and my orcs are twisted directly from the elves... and in the process, are unable to breed with any demihumans. I've never wanted to deal with an orc/elf PC or even NPC.

tesral
02-26-2009, 12:08 AM
Your list prompts an interesting question. Why are all (or mostly all) half-breeds, 1/2 human. If humans can interbreed with Orcs and Elves, why have there never been any 1/2 Orc/Elven races, and so on.

Humans are sluts, they'll do anything.

I will listen to just about any racial arrangement that someone comes up with. About the only thing you will not find is half-Orcs. Orcs are too picky.

ronpyatt
02-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Four fathers? There be more here than meets the eye, methinks. Shenanigans!
You have sharp eyes. Of course, with a little shapeshifting anything is possible. Ask me about it at the meet!

nijineko
03-01-2009, 02:20 AM
In part yes, in part no. The 'mule' effect is clear. A donkey bred to a horse produces the well know mule, unable to reproduce in it self. A dog, though of different 'breed' is still a dog. different species and same species, respectively.

Another example: navel oranges, no seeds, same as making a creature through majic, High enough tech resembles majic rule. But in fantacy, well, it is still fantacy. What ever the GM allows, more power to the player. I just like to have logical limits to some things.

interestingly enough, not all mules are sterile. just most.

Tony Misfeldt
03-01-2009, 05:08 PM
I also thought that half-ogres were orc/ogre typically-

Ogre/orc halfbreeds are either orogs or ogrillon, depending on which parent was the orc and which was the ogre. I think an ogre father and an orc mother creates an orog, while an orc father and an ogre mother creates an ogrillon.
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Your list prompts an interesting question. Why are all (or mostly all) half-breeds, 1/2 human. If humans can interbreed with Orcs and Elves, why have there never been any 1/2 Orc/Elven races, and so on.
Orcs and elves are not genetically compatible. I believe this is mentioned in the entry on half-orcs in one of the 2nd ed books (Monstrous Mannual, Complete Book Of Humanoids, etc). Lizards Of The Coast may have changed the rules regarding half-orcs for 3rd and 4th editions, but I don't care since I don't use most of their new crap anyway.

tesral
03-01-2009, 07:06 PM
I do my own thing. Magic to the degree that any mammal can breed with any mammal and a lot of things are not mammals. I have the ":Mom's Legs" rule; the baby will have the number of legs mom does.

The end result is a whole class of being called "Exotics". Half humanoid and half animal.

kirksmithicus
03-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Ogre/orc halfbreeds are either orogs or ogrillon, depending on which parent was the orc and which was the ogre. I think an ogre father and an orc mother creates an orog, while an orc father and an ogre mother creates an ogrillon.
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Orcs and elves are not genetically compatible. I believe this is mentioned in the entry on half-orcs in one of the 2nd ed books (Monstrous Mannual, Complete Book Of Humanoids, etc). Lizards Of The Coast may have changed the rules regarding half-orcs for 3rd and 4th editions, but I don't care since I don't use most of their new crap anyway.

Duly noted, but if you are not playing a version of D&D it still remains a possibility.

Tony Misfeldt
03-03-2009, 10:27 PM
Duly noted, but if you are not playing a version of D&D it still remains a possibility.

I do play a version of D&D, it's called 2nd Edition. In my opinion, everything published by TSR is Gospel, anything being published by Lizards Of The Coast is blasphemy. But that's a different subject for a different thread.

Back to the topic at hand.

Half-Orcs: Typically the cross between a human and an orc, half-orcs can also result from the mating of orcs & halflings, orcs & gnomes, orcs & dwarves, orcs & goblins, or just about anything except for elves which orcs are ginetically incompatible with (I'm paraphrasing a quote from the 1st Ed Players Handbook).

Half-Elves: The result of a marriage between an elf and a human. If two half elves marry they will produce half-elf offspring. If a half elf marries a human, their offspring will be human. If a half-elf marries an elf, their offspring will be elves.

Half-Ogres: The result of a marriage (or at least an intimate encounter) between an ogre and a human. They're larger and stronger than humans, but not as big and as strong as ogres. They're faster and smarter than ogres, but not quite as smart as humans. They essentially take the best traits of both races, and lessen the worst.

Orogs: The result of a marriage between a male orc and a female ogre. Bigger and stronger than your typical orc, as well as being smarter and more disciplined than your typical ogre.

Ogrillon: The result of a marriage between a male ogre and a female orc. They are wild and undisciplined, living to fight with their bare hands. Thankfully they're born sterile.

Half-Dragons: The result of virtually any demihuman or human and a metallic dragon. Only the metallics are capable of producing half-dragons. The dragon assumes (demi)human form and takes a mate from the existing (demi)human population in which they've chosen to dwell. As metallics are the only dragons capable of naturally shape shifting into humanoid form, they are the only ones capable of producing half-dragons. Dragons that must memorize and cast a Polymorph Self spell may be able to have intimate relations with a (demi)human(oid), but they won't be able to create any offspring. Half-dragons always look elvish, regardless of what their nondragon parent's race is. As they age they gain the ability to assume a dragon-like form, and have some draconic abilities (such as breath weapon) though never as formidable as a true dragon's. This information can be found in The Counsil Of Wyrms Campaign Setting.

Half-Giants: This has been successfully done between humans and some of the smaller giant kin. Brianna Hartwick took a firbolg ranger as a husband and bore him a half giant son. I see no reason that other giant kin couldn't also successfully mate with humans. Firbolgs can shrink themselves to human size. Voadkyn can polymorph themselves into any humanoid form, from halfling to hill giant. The smallest verbeeg is the size of a really large human. Also every verbeeg has a minor deformity, so it's possible that a 10' verbeeg could only have a 7" willy. Ogre-magi can polymorph themselves into any humanoid form from halfling to hill giant. Creating half giants with the larger true giants (hill giants, frost giants, fire giants, etc) is a little trickier, but not impossible. The father just has to be the human and the mother the giant. I don't think the mother could survive the coupling if it were the other way around (let alone the birth).

Half-Trolls: The only case of a human/troll hybrid I'd ever read about in any D&D book are the trollborn from The Complete Vikings Campaign Sourcebook, and it says right in that chapter that the trolls of Norse mythology and the trolls of D&D are not one and the same. Norse trollborns are more like half-ogres. However trolls have been known to mate with other humanoid species, such as ettins and hill giants, which is where we get two headed trolls and giant trolls from.

Half-Gnoll: In the novel Pool Of Radiance, the ranger Ren O' The Blade fought a group of gnolls who were led by a human/gnoll hybrid. Thus there is literary precident for half-gnolls.

Half-Goblin: In the collection of Forgotten Realms short stories, Realms Of Infamy, there was a story about a rampaging band of goblins being led by a human/goblin hybrid. I forget the name of the tale, but it's also a literary precident for half-goblins. In fact, I think any goblinoid race (hobgoblin, bugbear, kobold, etc) can successfully crossbreed with humans.

Cambion: This is the result of a mating between a human female and a greater demon from The Abyss (such as a balor or a glabrezu), or a demon lord. They are very powerful, very evil, and should not be used as PCs (unless it's a high level evil campaign).

Alu-Fiend: This is the result of a mating between a human male and a succubus. They are always female, and look very much like their mothers (devils horns, batwings, etc). Not nearly as powerful as true succubi or cambions, they might be usable as a PC race. Also, they aren't always devoted to evil (though almost always devoted to chaos). Thus you could have an alu-fiend PC with a CN or even CG alignment.

tesral
03-04-2009, 12:05 AM
Duly noted, but if you are not playing a version of D&D it still remains a possibility.

It remains a possibility if you are. The rule books are not the be all and end all of the game. I have my own world with my own rules about who can with whom. The DM decides what is and is not possible, not the books.

It is your game, not Lizard's game, not TSR's game, your game.

spotlight
03-04-2009, 12:30 PM
I agree with that point of view, Tes, which is why, in my games, I prefer to limit halfs to the half-orc and half-elf. Any others can be allowed, but I try to keep them streile.

Dimthar
03-06-2009, 03:46 PM
Half-Dragons: The result of virtually any demihuman or human and a metallic dragon. Only the metallics are capable of producing half-dragons. The dragon assumes (demi)human form and takes a mate from the existing (demi)human population in which they've chosen to dwell. As metallics are the only dragons capable of naturally shape shifting into humanoid form, they are the only ones capable of producing half-dragons. Dragons that must memorize and cast a Polymorph Self spell may be able to have intimate relations with a (demi)human(oid), but they won't be able to create any offspring. Half-dragons always look elvish, regardless of what their nondragon parent's race is. As they age they gain the ability to assume a dragon-like form, and have some draconic abilities (such as breath weapon) though never as formidable as a true dragon's. This information can be found in The Counsil Of Wyrms Campaign Setting.


I thought that the Red Dragon in the first Dragonlance Novel was able to shape-shift into a Human.

tesral
03-06-2009, 10:28 PM
I thought that the Red Dragon in the first Dragonlance Novel was able to shape-shift into a Human.


Well the novels are not game rule mavens, they are novels.

Tony Misfeldt
03-07-2009, 02:34 AM
I thought that the Red Dragon in the first Dragonlance Novel was able to shape-shift into a Human.

Which Dragonlance Novel was that? I've only read a handfull of them, so the dragons of Krynn might be different than those of other worlds. And how was it written? Did it seem as though a red dragon had the same innate ability to Polymorph Self as gold and silver dragons do? Or did it seem as though he was casting Polymorph Self as a human wizard might?
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Well the novels are not game rule mavens, they are novels.

Good point. Although the authors do usually try to make their stories confine themselves to the rules put forth by the game.
--- Merged from Double Post ---



Half-mer (human & merfolk)

Half-illithid (human & illithid)



Half-mer (human + merfolk): How exactly is this supposed to work? Where in the mermaid is the human male supposed to stick his willy? And what is the merman supposed to stick in the human female? Sorry, but they're two anatomically incompatible species.

Half-illithid (human + illithid): This is even less likely than the half-mer. At least with them a DM could say that the merman's willy and the mermaids va-jay-jay are hidden beneath their scales and are only visible when aroused (as far as I know it doesn't really work that way, but DMs have been known to change the rules to suit their needs). Illithids however reproduce asexually. There are no male and female illithids, just illithids. Even if the DM declared that in his world there are male and female illithids, the only illithids who would produce half-illithids would be those who are into "food play" (are sexually aroused by food).

ronpyatt
03-07-2009, 10:18 AM
Half-mer (human + merfolk): How exactly is this supposed to work? ... they're two anatomically incompatible species.

Half-illithid (human + illithid): This is even less likely than the half-mer. There are no male and female illithids, just illithids.

Lol! I'll try to answer that.
With a little imagination, a little magic and the fact that it's fantasy (not necessarily D&D rules) go a long way in producing crossbreeds that wouldn't seem to fit. Mating in the anatomical sense is not the only way to have children in a fantasy world (or in the real world for that matter). Besides, one doesn't have to be crude for love to work in a fantasy world.

When I have trouble wrapping my mind around a fantasy point, I stretch it and hope for the material not to have holes poked in it. For example...

Mermaids or mermen are fantasy characters, and I've seen artists depict them in ways that certainly allow for the ridged "standard" unions. Or if you prefer the "deposits" method that fish use, well, that's not really hard to imagine. Half-mer problem solved.

Illithid and human psychics/sorcerers can perform interesting mental and magical feats that might absorb / incorporate another being into themselves or others to create an entire halfbreed family. (Not to mention many polymorph/miracle spells can be used to fix the incompatibility issue in creatures.) Half-illithid problem solved.

Breeding camps run by Vampire Overlords or Blood Sorcerers might offer another solution to many of those hard to reach halfbreed races. Pregnant vampires were a shock to my psyche when I first heard it was possible for the undead to get pregnant.

Speaking of playing with food, what about a Half-pineapple race?

tesral
03-07-2009, 10:47 AM
Lol! I'll try to answer that.
With a little imagination, a little magic and the fact that it's fantasy (not necessarily D&D rules) go a long way in producing crossbreeds that wouldn't seem to fit. Mating in the anatomical sense is not the only way to have children in a fantasy world (or in the real world for that matter). Besides, one doesn't have to be crude for love to work in a fantasy world.

When I have trouble wrapping my mind around a fantasy point, I stretch it and hope for the material not to have holes poked in it. For example...

Consistency is all that is demanded. If it works on Tuesday, it works on Friday. Logic is nice as well, it doesn't have to be real world logic, just internally consistent logic.

I have other rules besides "mom's legs". There is the "You have to be kidding." factor. If the idea simply blows my buffer, or the mating is so physically improbable as to leave one rolling on the floor laughing, or you have no freaking idea what the kid would look like, well that mating cannot happen. Mice and dragon, or fish and humans. Those two are not happening. Phoenix and Centaur is another one that meets the "I have no idea about the kid". Usually egglayers and livebearers have a hard time crossing. Male dragons female human being the notable exception.

However any humanoid with any humanoid is possible. Titans and Hobbits have that size issue going, but magic can over come that. Mind you these are my rules and supercede any TSR/Lizards rules because of that.



Mermaids or mermen are fantasy characters, and I've seen artists depict them in ways that certainly allow for the ridged "standard" unions. Or if you prefer the "deposits" method that fish use, well, that's not really hard to imagine. Half-mer problem solved.

Are they mammals or fish? That is the question. If mammals (true on Thindacarulle) they nave mammal bits and mammal reproduction, the matter is much simplified.

Tony Misfeldt
03-12-2009, 09:33 PM
Lol! I'll try to answer that.
With a little imagination, a little magic and the fact that it's fantasy (not necessarily D&D rules) go a long way in producing crossbreeds that wouldn't seem to fit. Mating in the anatomical sense is not the only way to have children in a fantasy world (or in the real world for that matter). Besides, one doesn't have to be crude for love to work in a fantasy world.

When I have trouble wrapping my mind around a fantasy point, I stretch it and hope for the material not to have holes poked in it. For example...

Mermaids or mermen are fantasy characters, and I've seen artists depict them in ways that certainly allow for the ridged "standard" unions. Or if you prefer the "deposits" method that fish use, well, that's not really hard to imagine. Half-mer problem solved.

Illithid and human psychics/sorcerers can perform interesting mental and magical feats that might absorb / incorporate another being into themselves or others to create an entire halfbreed family. (Not to mention many polymorph/miracle spells can be used to fix the incompatibility issue in creatures.) Half-illithid problem solved.

Breeding camps run by Vampire Overlords or Blood Sorcerers might offer another solution to many of those hard to reach halfbreed races. Pregnant vampires were a shock to my psyche when I first heard it was possible for the undead to get pregnant.

Speaking of playing with food, what about a Half-pineapple race?

Mermen and mermaids mating with humans is a little easier to imagine than illithids. Like Tesral said, if they're mammals and have mammalian reproductive features then it's far more easily solved. The half-illithid thing is still in the "you gotta be kidding" category. Sure, an illithid sorcerer could cast Polymorph Self or Shape Change and adopt the physical attributes of a human male, or any demihuman or humanoid being for that matter. But would the union produce a half-illithid offspring? As DM I'd say "no". The reason being is the same as to why there are no chromatic half-dragons. The illithid in question had to cast a spell in order to assume human form, just as a red or blue dragon would. While in their borrowed form they can physically mate, but that mating will not produce any offspring. They're essentially sterile. Being the victim of a Polymorph Other spell is a little different, but any trace of their former species would be lost and the child would be of it's mother's race. Only creatures who can shape change at will can mate in their new form and create half breeds with other humanoid species. Gold dragons, silver dragons, bronze dragons, brass dragons, ogre magi, and voadkyn are all examples of natural shape shifters who could produce half breeds. Some species actually reproduce by mating with humans, the end result always being the monstrous parent. Minotaurs, medusae, dopplegangers, and red widow spiders all reproduce by mating with humans (though if humans aren't available, in the underdark for example, virtually any demihuman or humanoid will do in a pinch). These creatures can't have half-human offspring, the monstrous DNA completely overwhelms the (demi)human(oid) DNA. Sorta like the alien in the movie "Species".

ronpyatt
03-12-2009, 11:56 PM
Mermen and mermaids mating with humans is a little easier to imagine than illithids. Like Tesral said, if they're mammals and have mammalian reproductive features then it's far more easily solved. ... These creatures can't have half-human offspring, the monstrous DNA completely overwhelms the (demi)human(oid) DNA. Sorta like the alien in the movie "Species".

Since it is your fantasy world, I guess your fantasy characters have DNA, and you are completely right.

However, we are still talking about fantasy hybrid races. DNA does not exist in many of my worlds. Magic is magical. Gods wield powers that break reality. Wishes make changes that would be otherwise impossible. Fantastic things happen.

Quite the conundrum if you let too much reality get in the way, or if your imagination cannot handle the absence of DNA. I'm not saying that your's can't. I just saying that mine can. If it makes a good story and everyone is having fun then the point is moot.

Are there any hybrids that would actually contribute to this thread or are you content with objecting to the ones you find impossible?

InMediaRes
03-13-2009, 12:43 AM
Goblins and Orcs are the same thing, Orcs being the Middle-Earth word for them, and goblin being the "Earth Term" he used in the hobbit. He retained the use of goblins much as we use the words "humans" and "men" interchangably (tolkien's usages, not mine, so we'll avoid anything sexist related).

All Orcs/Goblins are descended from elves, though Morgoth twisted their shapes and made them subservient to him (see the silmarillion/unfinished tales for more details).

The Uruk-hai are the best of the orcish specimens that Saruman could find, mixed with the hardiness of men so they would be larger, stronger, more intelligent, and more ablebodied in open sunlight.

I'm not a huge DnD guy myself, but seeing as how Gygax pretty much ripped most of his material concerning the main races from Tolkien, this is stuff everyone should know ;) That is, unless you want all your elves to be 2 feet tall, and all your dwarves to come in groups of 7.

tesral
03-13-2009, 10:18 AM
What Hybrids are in your game is entirely your call. Some of the much much rarer things that have been seen in my game, but are rare indeed.

Delfs: Yea A Dwarf/Elf cross. It is either True Love or one Hell of a party. I don';t have the "classic" Dwarf'Elf "we hates each other" thing going down. So far exactly one has been encountered. I don't have game stats. I see it looking somewhat like a short Half Elf with pointy ears and fairly heavy beards on the men. (My Dwarven women do not come bearded.)

Gobbit: Gnome/Hobbit (Yes I call them Hobbits in my game) Gobbits are not on my race list. I have used them exactly twice. Gnomish culture and Hobbit culture are polar opposites. It would take a pair of misfits, a Gnome that can't stand the hurly-burly of home and a Hobbit sick of the quiet and easy life to get along. Size is not an issue.

While it has never come up Hobgoblin crosses are possible. The half Hobgoblin could easily replace the half Orc in my game. Hobgoblin culture is more open and accepting of outsiders. A Human could get accepted as a Hobgoblin tribal member.

There was one half Fire Giant character. She was fun. My late Wife ran her. There is a half Cloud Giant NPC.

More commonly you have.

1/2 Centaur: This one is actually fairly common on my world. The unlikely mating of a male Centaur and a female Human or Elven woman. (How, like Porcupines, very carefully.) 1/2 Centaurs exist in numbers sufficient to interbreed with each other. They breed true.

1/2 Avian: Again a common mix with 1/2 Phoenix being the most common. With the frequent breeding in and out of the winged set I have several degrees of elemental connection. The only issue is with Glacians and Phoenixes. The non-Avian partner must be protected against the body temperature of the Avian partner. Glacians are icy cold and Phoenixes scaling hot. Not too bad to the touch, their skin is a good insulator, but body fluids you understand. The other three Avian types do not have unusual thermostatic readings.

Sauroi: My world's half dragons. They come in all the colors and look dragconic and are bipedal. There are a lot because one of the God-Kings saw the one example and decide that 12' average sized dragon people would make good terror troops. He spent 50 years making them with every type Dragon and Human slaves.

And the usual Half Elves, etc.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-15-2009, 07:59 PM
I'm pretty cool with most combinations, depending on the game, but draw the line between illithiads and (insert race here). Anyone aware of what an illithiad is would understand my resistance. Yeah, i know its fantasy, but come on! A line has to be drawn somewhere, and i just dont draw it with this particular combination. Btw, i'm liking some of the combinations listed on this thread and will have to use them in future games. Cool stuff.:biggrin:

InMediaRes
03-16-2009, 12:34 AM
There's an interesting duality to questions like this. The right brain says "it's fantasy, thusly it's fantastic. Anything can happen."

The Left brain says "it's roleplaying, so now I have a justification for fantasizing about illithid nasty bits."

Freud would be fascinated, I'm sure.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-16-2009, 12:40 AM
Oh, dont get me wrong, for i am a serious advocate for variety/choices. In fact, its what makes DnD great. I was only speaking about my personal campaigns. If and when i play others(other DM's/players), they have allowed stuff i wouldnt, but i still loved "their" campaigns anyway. No two DND campaigns are ever the same. Probably why DnD never gets old, even for me after 30+ years.

I would also be curious what Freud would think of said campaign. I would also love to have played in a game with Robert E. Howard and J.R.R. Tolkien. They were ahead of their time.

tesral
03-16-2009, 01:01 AM
I've heard another theory that all the "Fantasy" Humanoid races are Human. The differences are like breeds of dogs. After all a Jack Russel Terrier and a Great Dane are both dogs. They look very different. However, they are cross fertile and if you get that Jack a ladder he can do the deed and offspring will result.

One could use a similar viewpoint, Elves, Humans, Dwarves et all are really different breeds of the same species.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-16-2009, 03:45 AM
An interesting argument, and one that isnt easily explained away. I would think that JRR Tolkien felt the same way. He pretty much said so at the end of Return of the King through Gandalf to Frodo, if memory serves. Animated version. Yeah, yeah, i realize it may have not been in the book, but still...

InMediaRes
03-16-2009, 08:53 PM
I like the breed idea, it's not too far a stretch from what they've already said. It would make sense that all the different humanoids (mammalian at least) would have one common ancestor. Whether your campaign includes the idea of DNA or not, heredity is hard to ignore. Otherwise giants would give birth to goblins, and so on...atavism just makes things more complicated, though. Appendages is a good place to draw the line, I think. Magical conception aside.

ronpyatt
03-17-2009, 12:52 AM
Breeds are a good way to explain it. A kind-of-heredity plays a big role in most of my fantasy settings. It helps when there is no such thing as the classification of mammals. Meaning the scientific barrier between cross species pollination becomes a matter of story interest and character development instead of preconceived notions of the-proper-way. First, I like to remove the restricting science out of fantasy and add bits of science (usually warped and tentative) back in as needed.

Lest we forget some gods made many of the races. The mixing of species would be as common as they determined. For instance, most female dragonborn were made with lumps on their chest, which may serve other purposes other than providing for the young. The gods may have determined it would be easier for other male and female humanoids to tell the difference. Of course, if the gods did not make any races then you'll have to come up with another story.

Mixing species... Mules are not the only result of some inconvenient offspring. Since even modern society leaves out (conveniently forgets?) the fact that there are more than 2 sexes, I often include male, female, and many other functional anatomies, which provide for nearly boundless possibilities in mixing the races.

InMediaRes
03-17-2009, 11:07 AM
For instance, most female dragonborn were made with lumps on their chest,

That's an interesting way of putting it :P

nijineko
03-20-2009, 12:03 AM
let's see... i think the most mixed ancestry character (excluding myself! ) would have to be a part-giant, part-ogre, part-minotaur character that i have.

kirksmithicus
03-30-2009, 02:02 PM
Umli - Half Dwarf, half human combination. Found this while I was looking through my old MERP book the other day.

cpljarhead
03-30-2009, 02:32 PM
i have a orog in the game i dm and it hard to typically play by the looks but that probably because there not a lot of melee comabt rght now it more of the longer ranged stuff and besides they have really bad will saves. i have played a 1/2 dragon 1/2 mongrelman before. it was like the best of both worlds almost as it had 24 str and con without magical or ability increases and all abilities of the mongrelman or mutt of the base races. that proved to be interesting especially as a duskblade.

Grumpy Old Man
03-30-2009, 03:35 PM
In the novel I am attempting My Dwarves are randy creatures and male Dwarves have left offspring wherever they went, the get always looks like the mother but inherits some of the constitution and long life of the sire. The female Dwarf is equally randy but is so hard to impregnate she needs a Dwarf to make her conceive.

My protagonist is a female Dwarf who nearly killed the antagonist early in the novel but failed and was injured and slapped with some bad magic. She recuperated in a Halfling village where the Halfling cleric/shoemaker tended to her wounds, brought her literally back from the brink of death. They fell in love had a dalliance and lo and behold she had a son who looked like his Halfling father but larger.

As a warrior she left her son with the father to raise and only saw him again at the fathers funeral where the Dwark/Halfling was not only alive and well but is an exceptionally powerful wizard as well. The only Dwarf wizard in the world.

I never saw a Dwarf/Halfling combo before and I'm having some fun with it. I have used the Dwarf mother as a campaign character before and she is a pretty straight forward fighter. I would love a chance to try my little hybrid overgrown Halfling in a quest but I think it would have to be a table top pen and paper game because there would have to be to many things to iron out for post play.