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View Full Version : Selling and Trading?



kirksmithicus
02-06-2009, 11:57 PM
A question, rather than a suggestion. What is the site policy on posting ads for trades or items for sale? I really just want to try and trade some stuff.

Farcaster
02-08-2009, 05:25 AM
If there is some desire for such a spot, I could create a forum for it.

Webhead
02-08-2009, 12:13 PM
Color me curious. I would end up scoping out such a forum if it existed.

cplmac
02-08-2009, 07:41 PM
Look out, kirksmithicus is tyring to find a way to unload that armadillo that's been hanging out on his lawn.


Seriously, I would take a look at what folks have listed. I am pretty sure Etarnon would too.

Etarnon
02-08-2009, 07:52 PM
Yes, I'd definitely utilize such a forum, daily.

kirksmithicus
02-08-2009, 11:38 PM
I wonder if I could send an Armadillo via USPS media mail?

Webhead
02-08-2009, 11:50 PM
I wonder if I could send an Armadillo via USPS media mail?

The rate changes based upon whether it is shipped alive or dead. Obviously, living armadillos must be express or overnight shipped or risk spoilage in transit...

Etarnon
02-09-2009, 03:12 AM
What does an armadillo eat? I don't think they'd do well in the snow of Pittsburgh. Now if you could catch one of those West / South Texas Ocelots, well...I know of a certain game company that could use a mascot.

Making trips to the wheeling zoo to see one just hasn't been cutting it.

Bearfoot_Adam
02-09-2009, 10:40 AM
They are insectivores and scavengers, Hence the rooting and finding them on the road poking at road kill before they themselves become roadkill.

kirksmithicus
02-09-2009, 11:11 AM
But back on topic, yeah a place to offer up things for trade would be cool. I just didn't know if there were any legal issues or other reasons for not having one.

GoddessGood
02-09-2009, 11:58 AM
Hmm, I'd check it out. I dunno if I'd have much to offer. I'd probably post packets of dice since I really do need to pair down my collection after getting 2 pounds of random chessex dice. I wonder if the artists of the community might use it to offer their services? How difficult would it be to add in a paypal link?

spotlight
02-09-2009, 12:02 PM
It would be cheaper than E-bay. Till some member got toasted and complained. Leave the trading to those willing to charge for it. Harder for folks like me that like to collect certain things ... but much safer for all concerned. been burned and don't like it.

kirksmithicus
02-09-2009, 12:16 PM
Yeah that's one of the things I worry about. It's all good until someone gets screwed over, then it just starts causing problems and turns into a headache for the site, and the people who get stiffed. I certainly don't want to turn the site into a mini e-bay, Anyway, maybe a bad idea.

spotlight
02-09-2009, 12:22 PM
Hear THAT Farcaster?? I have seen so many complements about what a nice AND friendly site this is. This is a type of thing that could ruin it. Some things would be quite lovely but still should not be done. That's all I'll have to say for this suggestion. Even if it is a good one and/or popular.

kirksmithicus
02-09-2009, 01:11 PM
Hear THAT Farcaster??

What? that I'm a cynical pessimist as well!

spotlight
02-09-2009, 01:22 PM
Well, send me that armadillo and count it even, OK? And I didn't intend to imply your pessimism was real.

kirksmithicus
02-09-2009, 01:52 PM
They are legitimate concerns, and my pessimism towards the human race is real :(. That's why I was thinking about the issue some more. It seems that one of the biggest problems with such an endeavor is one of trust. The anonymity of the internet tends to shield people from the traditional real world consequences of being a chump. You know, like beatings, legal action, jail and shunnin' (if you happen to be Amish). One of the best things about P&P is the community. Lots of nice people that have restored my faith in humanity a bit. Especially after swearing off the internet because of the RPG forum flame wars of the mid to late 1990's, even if I did start most of them. *Note to self* stop rambling and get back on topic. Instead of just having it as an open forum for anyone to view/use, and prone to use and abuse by people no one knows or trusts. It could be set up for only members of the site that have a large number of posts, and as such, have put in the time and effort to become part of the community, and have a vested interest in maintaining a good reputation on the site. I think that would help alleviate some concerns and some of the potential for abuse. I know I wouldn't want to become a pariah on the site over a measly $20.00 book or game, I'm currently exploring other paths to attain that goal :D.

Still not a perfect solution, but better.

nijineko
02-09-2009, 06:48 PM
how about a freecycle form of forum? useful idea, even if most of those that join the various sites don't follow the policy about not posting what they want to get. ^^ perhaps with the caveat of allowing shipping cost to be paid by the receiver. we are poor gamers after all. =D

Farcaster
02-09-2009, 10:55 PM
Soo.. It sounds like you guys talked yourself out of this idea, eh? :biggrin:

kirksmithicus
02-09-2009, 11:39 PM
Not exactly, just debating the pro's and con's. Trying to determine what the best way to go about it. Build some sort of trust or safety into the system if possible.

GoddessGood
02-10-2009, 09:09 AM
I'm personally waiting for the debate to start up on a seller rating system :) I like the idea, and I think that we're mature enough to handle it. However, the possible down sides to having such a set-up are not at all agreeable to me. The freecycle idea could work, or it could be purely on a trade for trade basis. That way each person pays their own shipping costs and there's no need for a transaction of money.

There'd have to be a hell of a disclaimer, though, and a "handle disputes offline" rule.

mrken
02-10-2009, 02:05 PM
For years I have thought about selling some of my stuff online. A couple of things always keeps me from actually do it.

The first one is would I actually get paid for the work I do. Each piece takes quite a bit of my time, which is precious to me as I will never get it back but will continue to get older. The second is value. As my work is time consuming and has some ability needs that not everyone possesses.

I would trade some of my time and ability for someone else's time and ability if it is something I need. Generally it is in the form of money. When I sell stuff in person I can see the money and they can see the piece, there is no dispute once the values are set. With doing business online it becomes more difficult.

The buyer has the problem with determining value as they cannot actually see or feel it. Photos are good, but not perfect. The buyer also knows how hard they had to work for their money, but they have no idea how hard it is to do what I do, or the talent needed. I have had people offer me $20 for something that took me a week of work to do and they could not replicate the piece if they had a month, or two. This is the problem many professionals have. How many have heard the story of the guy who asked his mechanic friend to fix his car but doesn't think to actually pay for this service because it is so simple. Building terrain or painting miniature figures is hard work. If it was so easy, everyone could do it.

The last point is the trust issue. I have had people offer to pay me for my work and then the payment never shows up. There really is no protection from someone who is dishonest and intent on stealing from you. Shunning them or banning them is useless, I can eat that.

Farcaster
02-10-2009, 03:46 PM
For years I have thought about selling some of my stuff online. A couple of things always keeps me from actually do it.

I missed it, what stuff are you talking about selling online?


The last point is the trust issue. I have had people offer to pay me for my work and then the payment never shows up. There really is no protection from someone who is dishonest and intent on stealing from you. Shunning them or banning them is useless, I can eat that.

PayPal can be very helpful in these situations since it allows you the seller to receive the payment instantly and it allows the buyer to dispute the charge if they never receive the shipment.

The other option is having a third party escrow, but I can tell you right now that I don't want P&PG to be in that business.

mrken
02-10-2009, 07:40 PM
Check out the terrain and miniatures I do. Don't spend enough time on them because I just do them for the game I run. Some of the stuff is posted on the profile.

nijineko
02-11-2009, 12:28 AM
how many people are familiar with the freecycle method? it would only work for things that people don't mind giving away, of course. ^^ and shipping is another issue....

mrken
02-11-2009, 07:37 AM
I used to Freecycle, but times have changed. Now days people just say, "Leaving it on the sidewalk, first come first get." By the time I get there, whatever is gone. Farther I drive the madder I get. :( Don't freecycle anymore. Or Craig's List. Too bad, was a great idea. :( But it could work here, but I don't tend to get rid of much because I don't tend to buy much I don't keep using, except that boxed set of Marvel Superheros. Still, gave that to Chi at the Con Last year.

GoddessGood
02-11-2009, 08:45 AM
I do freecycle. I only send the pick up location to one person at a time, though. Usually I go in the order of the e-mails sent to me, but if someone says they can pick it up right away I tend to favor them ... unless I've already promised it to someone. This way I give my address out to as few people as possible. I had to stop doing it at my old apartment though, because a neighbor got wise and would watch for me to put stuff out and then take it. I don't know if it was the same neighbor or another, but I also got reported a couple of times has having "left trash outside my door." The apartments had a pretty strict policy on keeping the place clean.

Sneaksta
02-12-2009, 02:43 PM
Ok, my first post... Looks like a good place to start.

OK. Howabout a Mediator, or middleman. Kinda like an Escrow or some such blather... :confused:

Volunteer needed.... Like a High profile Moderator of this site, ahem Farcaster.. or some such. Send him the details of said trade in a message, and if he agrees send him the items. when he recieves both, reship to the appropriate party. Now, may add a few bucks shipping in the long run, but hey! if it is a good trade?? whats a few bucks of shippin' . Specially with all the mass amounts of out of print goodies everyone has stashed away..

Also, this way, if a trader becomes.. traitor? the items can then be sent back, and no one is really out anything but a couple bucks.

(could be a big deal for some, but as i blow about 10 bucks a day on average, and would be hard pressed to tell you what i blew it on yesterday, no real big deal to me)

Just a thought.......... Yeah i know. Me? thoughts? :confused:

mrken
02-12-2009, 04:45 PM
If I was shipping small painted minis, that would be ok, IF someone would "volunteer for that position (can't see anyone volunteering for this kind of abuse). But, for a box with the terrain I make the shipping costs can be a bit steep. Paying that twice sort of takes the incentive out of buying it or selling it. :(

cplmac
02-12-2009, 04:56 PM
With everything else that he is doing for the P&PG site, I really think that Farcaster is way to busy to be running a warehouse too. Although, he may entertain the idea if he is compensated with diapers, formula, juice, milk, or the item needed at that time, which from personal experience, seems to usually be everything.

Otakar
02-12-2009, 04:57 PM
I would go for it, too, Farcaster. And, Kirk, I think you can can that armadillo. I hear it tastes like chicken. :)

Sneaksta
02-12-2009, 07:27 PM
If I was shipping small painted minis, that would be ok, IF someone would "volunteer for that position (can't see anyone volunteering for this kind of abuse). But, for a box with the terrain I make the shipping costs can be a bit steep. Paying that twice sort of takes the incentive out of buying it or selling it. :(


I see yer point. However, how about if the Middleman just recieves the Money order or somethin, then notifies the perp with the goods to ship, the paying perp recieves the goods, then the Middleman remails the MO to the right perp? just a thought. no MO to MM, no shippie. just like an Escrow. recieve and hold the money till the goods are recieved. Just got to find and pick the trusty Middleman for the job... Hmm, all those money orders coming in.... Maybe i will volunteer for the job.. lol :whistle:

In the case of the bigger items, like terrains especially, this might be the best way to go.

Or there is always paypal. at least there, if ya get stiffed, paypal will go after the non shipper. may take awhile, but they usually do get resolved somehow....
:biggrin:

Farcaster
02-12-2009, 08:33 PM
Yeah, even given the time, I wouldn't want to be in the middle of the kinds of disputes that could up from being the middle-man. I would recommend using PayPal, since you can dispute a payment when you don't receive a shipment you were promised.

mrken
02-12-2009, 09:27 PM
Even with Delivery Conformation some people swear they never got the piece. :( Ever have to pay someone to steal something that cost/took you a week or two salary/work? Gut retching.

Sneaksta
02-13-2009, 01:36 AM
Even with Delivery Conformation some people swear they never got the piece. :( Ever have to pay someone to steal something that cost/took you a week or two salary/work? Gut retching.


I se I see. But, using delivery confirmation, with a returned signiature card, may make some sense.... especially if it is , say, must be a certain person that signs......

Just another 2 cents....

spotlight
02-14-2009, 10:56 AM
.... which is why E-bay exists. Let the pros handle the crapsters. This is a site for finding FUN, not heartache.
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Besides, try FINDING certain items you might want or collect. Even on E-bay that is difficult, and I have tried that.