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Krevon
01-03-2009, 12:41 PM
I am working on a setting and basing it off Star Wars SAGA rules.
I am trying to come up with a type of combat system for computer hacking since I know one player will go that route. Has anyone here attempted such? I'm having a bit of block on my creativity.

Thanks

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
01-03-2009, 01:02 PM
I am working on a setting and basing it off Star Wars SAGA rules.
I am trying to come up with a type of combat system for computer hacking since I know one player will go that route. Has anyone here attempted such? I'm having a bit of block on my creativity.

Thanks
Create a list of successes and failures, from minor setbacks and successes, to major failures and outright successes. This should get the creative juices going.

Best of luck...

Krevon
01-03-2009, 01:12 PM
Thanks Thoth, do you mind if i do it here? Well not now at least......fat man hungry:D

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
01-03-2009, 06:47 PM
Thanks Thoth, do you mind if i do it here? Well not now at least......fat man hungry:D
Go for it. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Heck, some of the best rules i've ever found were 'unnofficial."

tesral
01-03-2009, 07:31 PM
ICE the defensive programs. Hacking would be like combat itself, the hacker using his skills (bonus) and programs (varied bonus) to attack the security programs.

The hacker has X "hit points" that represent his connection. This could be few in number representing a tenuous connection to a great many that would would represent access to a physical console within the system. (In RL terms access to the machine means you will, not might take time, but you win.)

The ICE has hit points that represent the computer security. Once those are gone the hacker is in.

A third factor is time. ICE will report violation unless the hacker has tools to prevent that. So the hacker has a limited number of rounds before physical security imposes itself. If at a remote terminal that wouldn't be so much of an issue, connection would be. At a direct terminal guys with guns could do their own "hacking", alerted by the system.

So it is a case of much time, few hit point for a remote connection. Little time, lots of hit points for a direct connection (Unless the physical opposition can be dealt with or eliminated.)

Krevon
01-03-2009, 10:22 PM
Here are my original thoughts:
Computer Defense 10+Intelligence Mod(of programmer)+Cpu Def Mod
Cpu Def Mod: (complexity of firewall)
Home PC +1
Buisness +5
Government +10
Artificial Inteligence +15
Alien +25

On a failed Use Computer Check, opposing system or User can counter attack.
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Hacker Power/Talent
1/ Encounter. Each time you take a power from the hacker tree you gain an additional use.

At will: Multi Task*- You may add an additional operation for each time a hacker power is selected.

DC 15- Add +5 to your cpu Defense
DC 20- Add+5 to your cpu Attack
DC 25- Trace-traces attempted security breach
DC 30- Backdoor-gain access to previously hacked cpu no check


Virus
At will Multitask*

DC-15 -5 target cpu def.
DC-20-5 target cpu attack
DC-25-Untracable-Automated cpu security cannot trace you
DC-30-Spyware-monitor taget cpu


* When multitasking, use highest DC then add +5 for each additional function.

Example if I wanted to set up a backdoor on an enemy cpu then multitask to add +5 to my attack and -5 the their def my use computer DC would be
30 for back door+5 for hacker +5 virus for a total DC of 40.

Bearfoot_Adam
01-04-2009, 12:22 PM
I want to say that their is a rule set for this in the D20 Modern games.

Krevon
01-04-2009, 05:44 PM
There is, none of my players are satisfied with whats there, so i am setting out to make some different mechanics.

Inquisitor Tremayne
01-05-2009, 08:04 AM
Why are you using Star Wars Saga edition rules?

I ask because the above post seems a bit overly complicated for the intention of Saga edition.

If anything it should be a series of opposed Use Computer checks modified by the computers Intelligence or a series of Use Computer checks vs. the Will Defense of the computer in question. Then throw on some circumstantial modifiers to account for defenses etc... and you have slicing.

Krevon
01-06-2009, 07:30 PM
I do this because there are some facets of the game that my players want more depth in. So like any good GM, I do a digging.

McCummhail
01-15-2009, 12:28 AM
Computer Defense and system breaching is in actuality pretty boring. I think it is the thrill of conquering a puzzle or a challenge that makes it satisfying.
So, Using actual puzzles or riddles and the like adds an element of interaction that players can wrap their mind around to get that satisfaction.
You can use these and still preserve some game mechanic.
*Using a contested roll as before the player makes an initial check vs the system and then you give them a puzzle/riddle.
*Define an interval based on the challenge of the system. They have that time interval to solve the puzzle/riddle.
*When time is up, we roll the opposed check again, placing a modifier based on the puzzle/riddle (if any).
*After each roll you can continue with the same puzzle or for some systems a riddle for each interval.
*Repeat until success, failure or time over occurs.

Ex1) Med. business system +7 Def (+5 as you suggested, +2 INT mod of programmer)
5 net successes FTW; 5 net failures ALARM; 9 checks ALARM
Challenge: 1 - 36pc jigsaw puzzle (1 min interval; +10 bonus for completion)
Green Onion Slicer +8 skill check
START
1.Slicer rolls 2+8; System rolls 7+7 = 0-1
Give slicer the jigsaw and timer start. Mayhem! 1 min.
2.Slicer rolls 14+8; System rolls 17+7 = 0-2
Slicer establishes the corners, time.
3.Slicer rolls 13+8; System rolls 12+7 = 0-2
Slicer has the puzzle going now.
4.Slicer 20+8; System 9+7 = 1-2
Puzzle is shaping up now.
5.Slicer 11+8; System 9+7 = 2-2
Final piece in place! +10 bonus!
6.Slicer 15+18; System 6+7 = 3-2
No interval, gnashing of teeth maybe.
7.Slicer 7+18; System 16+7 = 4-2
Close call.
8.Slicer 14+18; System 14+7 = 5-2
RESULT: Success! (just in the nick of time, too)

Ex2) AI system +19 Def (+15 set, +4 INT mod of programmer)
10 net successes FTW; 10 net failures ALARM; 16 checks ALARM
Challenge: stack of algebra cards (15 sec interval; OK +5; NG -5)
MR-Ginsu slicer +24 skill check
START
1.Slicer 11+24; System 17+19 = 0-0!
Card surprises slicer. NG
2.Slicer 20+24-5; System 1+19 = 1-0
Flash that card. OK
3.Slicer 1+24+5; System 6+19 = 2-0
NG!
4.Slicer 7+24-5; System 8+19 = 2-1
OK!
5.Slicer 3+24+5; System 16+19 = 2-2
OK!
...
15.Slicer 15+24+5; System 16+19 = 9-5
NG!
16.Slicer 17+24-5; System 15+19 = 10-5
RESULT: ALARM (MR-Ginsu beat the system, but not in time)

Something like this can keep even a stale opposed roll from getting boring.
Easy victories could be just a normal roll (no thrill where there's no challenge).
This is one thought at least.

tesral
01-15-2009, 05:55 AM
I like it it's different. Something other than dice. An investment in riddle and puzzle books would be required.

Base the puzzle difficulty on how well the opposed roll goes?

A related note, people's ability to do puzzles and riddles can vary greatly. I had two players way back when, (Still have one) "Ron" is a brilliant man. "Chris" less so and a true Gun Bunny. However when it came to classic type riddles Chris had Ron beat hands down. He was better at the sideway allegorical thinking required. Ron is a logical type.

McCummhail
01-15-2009, 08:05 AM
I like it it's different. Something other than dice. An investment in riddle and puzzle books would be required.

I think if you don't want to spend any money, a time investment will find ample resources on the internet.


A related note, people's ability to do puzzles and riddles can vary greatly. I had two players way back when, (Still have one) "Ron" is a brilliant man. "Chris" less so and a true Gun Bunny. However when it came to classic type riddles Chris had Ron beat hands down. He was better at the sideway allegorical thinking required. Ron is a logical type.

While working as a school teacher I used logic puzzles and riddles to spice up in class activities occasionally, so I know the truth of what you are saying. My advanced students were trounced by a group of students that were far from model students. I can appreciate the different flavors of intelligence more now.
Logic puzzles might be better suited to a logic based thinker than riddles. When trying it out with players I would suggest leaving room for them to win by dice alone until you know what is and isn't doable for them.

Krevon
01-15-2009, 07:37 PM
Thats awsome, after some thought.....I could combine a concept from 4ed with skill challenges and the puzzles presented here. I will try to pull together some examples to test and post them for you guys to see.

Bear with me a bit on this as Im pulling 50+ hours a week where I work so as I can read and post my work on mechanics will wane.

Thanks again guys!

Dark
02-02-2009, 08:49 PM
This does sound very interesting I look forward to see what becomes of it.