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Dimthar
12-24-2008, 12:46 PM
Most likely a silly question...

I thought Dragonsborn were born from Eggs. But in the PH they seem to portray the females with breasts ... should I assume that Dragonborn breastfeed?

See ya next year.

Aidan
12-24-2008, 01:33 PM
Yes, Dragonborn are hatched from eggs, and yes, the artists portray the females with swellings on their chest that look suspiciously like mammaries. The 'Ecology of the Dragonborn' says specifically that they are nursed after they hatch, so I suppose that makes them Monotremes, related to the platypus and the spiny echidna.

Personally, I've decided to make a house rule that to the effect that dragonborn are not sexually dimorphic, so there are no big-busted female dragonborn.

fmitchell
12-24-2008, 02:30 PM
Personally, I've decided to make a house rule that to the effect that dragonborn are not sexually dimorphic, so there are no big-busted female dragonborn.

Just like the "house rule" I as a player proposed that Tieflings don't have big frakking tails as thick as a leg, which make no anatomical sense to me. (Not that I'm an anatomist, but they imply some sort of reptilian hip and tail structure to make them work.) As portrayed, a Tiefling could never lie on his back, and the tiefling pressed against the wall on one page of the PHB must be very uncomfortable. If the tails are non-functional, any sane Tiefling would amputate them; if they are functional, then Tieflings should get a bonus to Acrobatics and a special "rear strike" attack.

Granted, fantasy art has seldom if ever portrayed accurate non-human anatomy -- look at any winged humanoid and consider avian musculature. In fact, realistic human anatomy, especially female anatomy, often goes by the wayside. But dragon boobs and tiefling tails are particularly bad, considering they're for Player Characters.

Kalanth
12-24-2008, 04:37 PM
Never bothered me. Generally my players look at Tieflings as a bad idea to be in the PHB in the first place, and we will worry about the tails later on in life. Most of those kinds of things get forgotten or overlooked when compared to the story and RP points that we prefer anyways.

Valdar
12-25-2008, 03:01 PM
The dragonboobs have been the subject of hundreds of pages of discussion over at Wizards' site. It was getting so bad I even did a comic about it (back when I was doing this comic, which was before 4e came out)-

http://www.worldsedge.org/?p=4

Anyway, reptiles don't have brachiating shoulders, don't stand upright, and can't talk, so breasts aren't that big a stretch for a race that has so many other mammalian features.

Also, what the game designers learned from putting beards on dwarfs is that while it's fun to think about, altering sexual dimorphism characteristics for a race basically makes very few actual women want to play them.

Lastly, that's how fantasy art is. Most of the breasts you see in fantasy art would be unrealistic on humans, too...

kitsune1842
02-08-2009, 11:14 PM
Anyway, reptiles don't have brachiating shoulders, don't stand upright, and can't talk, so breasts aren't that big a stretch for a race that has so many other mammalian features.


What about Therapods? They stood upright, and if you read the right books spoke to one another in thier own languages. Sure, most people do not think aobut Utah Raptor when they think reptile. Reptile does not always mean lizzard.

fmitchell
02-09-2009, 12:32 AM
What about Therapods? They stood upright, and if you read the right books spoke to one another in thier own languages. Sure, most people do not think aobut Utah Raptor when they think reptile. Reptile does not always mean lizzard.

Is "lizzard" anything like Wizzard?

Sorry.

That's a good point, though. It's simpler to postulate a saurian species with at least partially rotating shoulders and tool-using hands than it is to imagine a reptile/dragon/saurian/whatever that converged almost exactly to anthropoid anatomy. Then again, this is D&D not alternative evolutionary development.

kkriegg
02-21-2009, 05:16 PM
I thought the exact same thing. I'm guessing they slapped on a pair of boobs to make the race seem more inviting (and by inviting I mean showing that there are infact female dragonborn and female players can play one if they want). All the other races have one male and one female on their pages. A set of knockers makes them seem female, even though something like being twice the size of the male and covered with blue spots might be more accurate.

Malruhn
02-21-2009, 09:12 PM
Sorry, but they wouldn't have blue spots.

Females in most species are larger, but less "attractive" than the males. The only ones that break this mold tend to be the mammalian folks. Playing the zoologist game, a female Dragonborn should be twice the size of the male, and plain to the point of being phreaking BORING.

Rochin
02-23-2009, 08:48 AM
Well it is a fantasy game, I do not feel it has to be anywhere similar to any real biology. That is just my opinion, and such is usually disagreed with, I am used to it.

Vulture
02-24-2009, 07:21 AM
um i think that some of you are thinking about this just a bit much.

Kalanth
02-24-2009, 08:57 AM
um i think that some of you are thinking about this just a bit much.

But details are the spice of a game, and thinking about some random elements to much can help a DM elaborate on the small things. Course, going even further on the thought process means that the DM can over think the game and that is a bad thing. It's a balancing act, to be honest.

Valdar
02-25-2009, 12:36 PM
But details are the spice of a game,...

Exactly. And, the sorts of people who play D&D also tend to be the sorts of people who obsess over minutiae (i.e. Asperger's Syndrome).

Before 4e, the obsession of choice was either bearded Dwarf women or how to calculate the blast effect of a volumetric fireball explosion. When 4e art came out it became the Dragonboobs.

My experiences are: It's never come up. There have been three Dragonborn in the party, all of them male. Most of the female characters have been Human or Tiefling.

InvestFDC
02-25-2009, 01:15 PM
I, for one, applaude the shift from tails & beards to breasts!!

1958Fury
02-25-2009, 01:59 PM
Before 4e, the obsession of choice was either bearded Dwarf women or how to calculate the blast effect of a volumetric fireball explosion. When 4e art came out it became the Dragonboobs.

On the Gleemax forums, there's also a big uproar about Tiefling tails.

Edit: Here's the thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1128315).

Kalanth
02-25-2009, 02:43 PM
I just omit Tieflings all togther and avoid the debate.

anticipatient
02-25-2009, 08:20 PM
Well what they SHOULD have done is make them flat chested and give them HUGE ****ING EYELASHES. And teal eyeshadow.
--- Merged from Double Post ---
Re: Tieflings: Tieflings as I imagine them are pretty unique from one to the next, with some having larger and smaller horns, some having larger or smaller tails, and some having various other demonoid characteristics, which makes tails, large or small, okay.

I think tieflings in the PHB are a good thing, because they let the players who want to have their really *SPECIAL* characters do so without being extra obnoxious and endlessly demanding exceptions to rules and special treatment and whatnot from the DM because of their exceptionally *SPECIAL* characters' *SPECIAL* backgrounds and/or *SPECIAL* origins.

Vouru kasa
03-02-2009, 03:35 PM
Dragon born, This species originated in the 3.5 D&D book Races of the Dragon, and originally was a template put over males or females of a different race. The new dragon born would still have characteristics of the original race and gender this is probably why 4E dragon born have mammary, wither they are functional or not is another question. As for raising children by breast feeding in 4E version that gets a little tricky. For starters dragon born seem to be carnivores which means the have fangs not molars which means the odds that they are breast fed are minimal, If not painful. Also the area were the child would suck would have to be soft as to let milk through to the child.
I could go on for a bit but I wish to change subject and take a swipe at one thing bugging my about Tieflings.
Why DO they have reptile tails? Tieflings are suppose to be the off spring of humans who made pacts with Devils/demons down there blood lines so really shouldn't the have skinny whip like tails or something similar? Please feel free to clear this up for me.

amardolem
03-02-2009, 04:30 PM
And goatees and pitchforks ;)

Aaron Young
03-02-2009, 06:29 PM
I think the dragon born are fine the way they are.. I think some people are over thinking these races.. I think they added the dragon for people wanted to be more dragon like.

anticipatient
03-03-2009, 02:51 AM
Well there are all SORTS of demons to make pacts with =] Some might have whiplike tails, and some might have more saurian tails :)

Valdar
03-03-2009, 11:41 AM
I think they added the dragon for people wanted to be more dragon like.

I don't have the book here, but they said in Races and Classes that the Dragonborn were there to consolidate a bunch of dragon-type races including half-dragons and such, in the same way that the Eladrin and Elf were consolidations of the eleven or so elf-type races.

Aaron Young
03-05-2009, 06:22 PM
I think you are right..

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-15-2009, 05:30 PM
Most likely a silly question...

I thought Dragonsborn were born from Eggs. But in the PH they seem to portray the females with breasts ... should I assume that Dragonborn breastfeed?

See ya next year.
I'm still trying to explain the platypus.

Valdar
03-16-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm still trying to explain the platypus.

Yep- biology doesn't care about our rules. Dragonborn are oviparous and also breastfeed, a combination that exists in almost no species on earth except for the five remaining monotremes, of which the platypus is one.

They also breathe actual fire, a trait found in no species on Earth at any point in history.

Which part is more unrealistic?

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-16-2009, 03:30 PM
Interesting trivia: Scientists have found cave drawings from thousands of years ago of humans riding on dragons (most likely pterodactyls of some sort). Makes you want to scratch your chin.

kirksmithicus
03-17-2009, 12:19 AM
Interesting trivia: Scientists have found cave drawings from thousands of years ago of humans riding on dragons (most likely pterodactyls of some sort). Makes you want to scratch your chin.

Stone age people painted strange things on cave walls, sometimes they were even trippin'. Hey welcome to the Stoned Age, "dude :hippie: check out my freakin' puhterodactyl, It's awesome".

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
03-17-2009, 12:46 AM
Hmm, before the riding of animals or ever even seeing a pterodactyl? That's some imagination for someone whos lifespan was lucky to hit 25. Must have been some wicked mushrooms back them.

Dimthar
03-17-2009, 06:09 PM
Can Tieflings ride Horses??

Grimwell
03-17-2009, 09:56 PM
Yes, but you have to carve a divot in their back to make room for the tail...

gdmcbride
03-18-2009, 12:43 AM
Dragonborn breasts are actually where the female stores the high octane jet fuel that primes the baby dragonborn's fire breath.

Gary

InMediaRes
03-18-2009, 01:28 AM
Yes, but you have to carve a divot in their back to make room for the tail...


This requires a DC 700 animal check to keep the horse (or other mount) from resisting the carving. A familiar's bond or paladin type special mount provides a +4 bonus to this roll. If a mount cannot be controlled for three consecutive rounds it goes into shock, unless treated with a wish spell it dies 2 rounds after. In the case of a familiar or other special mount dying in this fashion, the bonded character recieves damage equal to the total difference between the target DC and their resulting rolls. This means that with appropriate considerations, a Tiefling may attempt to "prepare" a special mount for him/herself.

Dimthar
06-14-2009, 04:23 PM
I may be mistaken, but I believe the Dragonborn in the Player's Handbook Cover is a Female.

.

DarQuing
06-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Actually, when I saw the dragonborn and tieflings, my first thought was 'Where's the tail for the dragonborn?! And why do tieflings get the tail?'

I've never had an issue with dragonboobs. :P

chintznibbles
07-10-2009, 05:33 AM
Clearly, what has happened here is that the Tieflings have magically stolen the tails from Dragonborn. The reptilian-looking structure, the unusual girth... it all makes sense, I'm telling you.

In my homebrew, Dragonborn have tails (and boobs; mammals with scales for the win, as they say). Females are taller than the males and have generally drab scales. The males, on the other hand, are generally quite vivid and often way more outgoing than females.

Improbable though they be, I do like Tiefling tails, but I'm also quite open to players customizing the individual demoninarity (tm) of their character, up to the point of excising the tail altogether.

DarQuing
07-10-2009, 10:56 AM
In my campaign, Tieflings have cloven hooves.

Grandore The Giant Killer
07-10-2009, 02:46 PM
The breasts make sense because essentially dragonborns are if a human and a dragon had a baby. (Yeah imagine how much booze was consumed for that to go down.) That I can accept. In our game we have a Lizard race that have big ole tails and we just adapt with them. In matter of fact I've used the tail as a weapon before. Especially in unarmed combat. Has anyone ever considered just turning around and cracking someone upside the head with that tail? You know that's going to feel like getting hit with a base ball bat.