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lokiare1
11-22-2008, 11:49 PM
Note to Moderator: Please read the full thing before mistaking this for any kind of spam (please.)

I am in the process of creating a pen & paper fantasy game system, and I am looking for testers.

The basic idea of the system is to have an easier to learn system than Dungeons & Dragons, and a quicker combat model. I use completely different information than Dungeons and Dragons. For the monsters I went completely back to the drawing board. I researched actual mythical creatures, and made each of them scalable to the full range of levels with easy charts and look up tables for a quicker reference. There are five different species you can play, and twelve different trades you can choose. The game uses a skill buy system where you can buy skills from either your species list and/or your trade list. You can even buy skills from other trades, but it costs more. Each skill scales as you level, and you enhance individual skills with use. It uses a couple of universal game mechanics throughout, and there is no limit to the levels you can achieve.

I am releasing the rules free online in pdf format, but I will also sell printed versions using a unique combination of monthly layaway and other things.

I don't see that the complete rules will cost more than $5.00-$10.00 in the end (Depending on publishing costs). I also plan on having a monthly pdf magazine that will feature user created scenarios and modules. This I don't see costing more than $1.00 an issue or $10.00 for a full year. If I can get advertising for it I might make it a free magazine. Those that subscribe for a full year in advance get a printed copy of the rules to the game as a bonus (if it is not free).

This is not an advertisement or spam, as of yet nothing is available. Even after something is available I won't spam with it. The above is only so people will take it more seriously and I am looking for players to test the game.

I plan on releasing the rules to this game when finished for free in pdf format. For now though I just want to see if this game is workable. If you want to volunteer email me at lokiare1 at hotmail.com replace the at with @.

lokiare1
11-25-2008, 11:26 PM
Well since no one seems interested I guess I'll have to post some of the rules and see if anyone likes them. A little bit of info: this system has a unique way of handling hp. The characters don't just have a pool of hp. The characters have tiers of health. Every time a character is attacked there is a chance that their health tier will go down. Below is an excerpt from the Character Creation portion.

Character Creation
To create a character the GP (Game Player) first chooses which species they want them to be. The choices are mystical fey, small and mischievous manikin, robust reptilians, large brutish magnus, or the charming caritas. Once they know what they want their species to be they must choose what trade their character will apprentice to.
They can choose from strong mercenaries, agile huntsmen, focused weapon lord, deadly assassins, sneaky scouts, clever tricksters, giving harmonizers, righteous crusaders, vicious scourges, mystical enchanters, vile necromancers, and mysterious magus. Once they know what they want their characters to be they must lay out their basic attributes.
The five attributes are might, deftness, intellect, appeal, and vigor. Each species has a strong attribute and each trade has attributes that help them with their skillís base echelons (levels). After placing the 20 points across the different attributes the GP next takes down their species based powers, and their trade based powers, and their typical assault (Basic attack). After this they must choose which skills to purchase.
All characterís always start with 5 points to purchase skills. They may purchase skills from the specific chart of their chosen species, trade chart, or the chart that is open to all species and trades. If they want to purchase a cross-trade skill it costs double. When they purchase a skill they cross reference the skills attribute with their scores. They then set the skillís base power to the attributes value. When they are finished with this step then they must deal with abilities.
The abilities represent various in game actions not specifically tied to a skill. The different abilities are athletics, endurance, insight, knowledge, persuasion, and reaction. The GP gets to distribute 5 points among the various abilities however they want. When that is finished, they must then add the relevant attribute value to the ability. After this they choose a name for their character and a background.

Aidan
11-26-2008, 12:10 AM
So...the abbreviation for Strongholds and Monstrosities is....S&M? I think I foresee a slight problem here...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
11-26-2008, 01:34 AM
You think?

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
11-26-2008, 01:35 AM
Note to Moderator: Please read the full thing before mistaking this for any kind of spam (please.)

I am in the process of creating a pen & paper fantasy game system, and I am looking for testers.

The basic idea of the system is to have an easier to learn system than Dungeons & Dragons, and a quicker combat model. I use completely different information than Dungeons and Dragons. For the monsters I went completely back to the drawing board. I researched actual mythical creatures, and made each of them scalable to the full range of levels with easy charts and look up tables for a quicker reference. There are five different species you can play, and twelve different trades you can choose. The game uses a skill buy system where you can buy skills from either your species list and/or your trade list. You can even buy skills from other trades, but it costs more. Each skill scales as you level, and you enhance individual skills with use. It uses a couple of universal game mechanics throughout, and there is no limit to the levels you can achieve.

I am releasing the rules free online in pdf format, but I will also sell printed versions using a unique combination of monthly layaway and other things.

I don't see that the complete rules will cost more than $5.00-$10.00 in the end (Depending on publishing costs). I also plan on having a monthly pdf magazine that will feature user created scenarios and modules. This I don't see costing more than $1.00 an issue or $10.00 for a full year. If I can get advertising for it I might make it a free magazine. Those that subscribe for a full year in advance get a printed copy of the rules to the game as a bonus (if it is not free).

This is not an advertisement or spam, as of yet nothing is available. Even after something is available I won't spam with it. The above is only so people will take it more seriously and I am looking for players to test the game.

I plan on releasing the rules to this game when finished for free in pdf format. For now though I just want to see if this game is workable. If you want to volunteer email me at lokiare1 at hotmail.com replace the at with @.
Best of luck on your game. I'd like to get involved but am just too busy at the present time.

lokiare1
11-26-2008, 10:44 AM
Well since that roused some interest I'll elaborate a little:

The characters advance by gaining echelons. They do this by gaining occurrence points. Occurrence points are gained at the rate of 1 or 2 per encounter depending on how hard the encounter is. When the occurrence points are equal to the current echelon, the character gains another echelon and occurrence points are reset to zero. Thus going from 1 to 2 just requires 2 occurrence points. But going from 1 to 10 requires 54 occurrence points. When a character raises their echelon they gain their echelon in points to buy skills, they also get to increase one of their attributes by a point.

Skills allow the character to do things that are truly difficult, such as throwing a ball of flame at an enemy or assaulting all the surrounding enemies. Skills are broken down into two categories exploits and enchantments. Exploits are physical in nature and usually depend on vigor, deftness, or might. Enchantments are magical or mental in nature and usually depend on intellect, or appeal. Each skill has an echelon of its own. Each time the skill is used the skill gains an occurrence point. When the occurrence points are equal to the skill's echelon then the skill gains an echelon. When a skill gains an echelon the player can choose to improve the swiftness, power, or cost of the skill by 1 point. The swiftness is how long it takes to perform the skill, the power increases the actual effect of the skill (ex. damage, range). Cost is how many skill points it takes to use the skill, and how many points it takes to equip the skill. Cost and swiftness go down when improved, and power goes up. Each skill is tied to an attribute. When a player purchases a skill when they gain an echelon, that attribute is the skills starting power. So it pays to choose skills that have attributes that are high.

trechriron
11-26-2008, 04:11 PM
Have you looked at any game design forums like The Forge (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/)? This is a classic fantasy heart-breaker. So the playing field in your chosen market, specifically fantasy games, is beyond saturated. Now, if this is just a personal use home-brew that you want to share "just because" and you understand what you're up against, then so be it.

If you are actually thinking of successfully marketing a FHB that bears any resemblance to D&D, you are fooling yourself (especially if you think someone is going to pay for it). Sorry for the straight talk, but it's the truth.

What does your new game offer me that say these don't?


HARP
Castles and Crusades
Pathfinder (3.75 D&D)
Lejendary Adventures
True 20
Desolation (Ubiquity System Fantasy)
Savage Worlds
D&D 4e
D&D 3.5
The 250 other Open Content fantasy systems derived from 3.5

I wish people would save themselves the disappointment and focus their creative talent on writing for established fantasy properties instead of trying to shoe-horn yet another fantasy system into the market. :confused: Changing the names of the same components doesn't make your game faster or easier. GP versus PC? Echelons versus levels? Occurrence Points versus Experience Points? You are making the same game and just changing the terms for the components!

May I suggest you create a setting and pick an open license for a system and publish that instead? Read the Game Design & Development or Industry Shop Talk forums on RPG.net (http://forum.rpg.net/). Join the GPA (http://www.thegpa.org/), Game Publishers Association (it's really cheap) and research the RPG business. Vet this idea before you just jump headlong into the fantasy heart-breaker frustration.

If you like to design systems? Design something fresh and new that we haven't seen before. Make it different. Make it better. Give your potential customers something to be excited about.

Just my two cents...

Grimwell
11-26-2008, 11:30 PM
I'll follow up on Trechriron's comments with a less depressing suggestion. :)

Understand the difference between designing a system and a setting. A system is a set of mechanics that can solve the questions a role playing game of a particular flavor is going to ask. Things like races are all about setting. How they work is defined by the system, but who they are is defined by the setting.

Don't bother working on a setting until you have a system that works well down. Unless you actually want to make a setting, then find a system you like and do the setting work. Each is a hard task, and the system has to be done before the setting can be clearly defined in game terms. It's an important distinction.

fmitchell
11-27-2008, 01:32 AM
To continue the wet-blanketry, I'd also recommend looking at systems outside of the D&D/d20 family. For example:


Basic Role-Playing
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay
PDQ-based systems like Questers of the Middle Realm and The Zorceror of Zo
Burning Wheel
7th Sea (the original, not the recent d20 version)
Hero System
GURPS
Spirit of the Century (not fantasy, I know)


Each started with very different premises and central game mechanics, and came up with different solutions for fantasy adventuring.

P.S. There's games further afield, like Dogs in the Vinyard, and HeroQuest. If you want to turn RPG tropes on their head by playing lords instead of wanderers, look at Reign or Houses of the Blooded.

fmitchell
11-27-2008, 02:32 AM
I wish people would save themselves the disappointment and focus their creative talent on writing for established fantasy properties instead of trying to shoe-horn yet another fantasy system into the market.

Actually, I think there's a market for games primarily about the setting, with a simple custom or customized system to make it a game. Desolation sounds like one of these, as does Grimm, HeroQuest, Mythic Russia (a port of HeroQuest), the upcoming Song of Ice and Fire RPG, WFRP, a whole bunch of PDF-only and indie games, and anything using ORE, PDQ, or Fudge/FATE.

Obviously the emphasis is on simple: roll X against Y, with a straightforward health/damage system for combat. If you can generate a character in 30 minutes or less, and explain the entirety of the rules over the course of one demo session, the game is simple enough. Anything with a plethora of specific combat modifiers (at the D&D and GURPS level), or multiple resolution mechanics for various activities (e.g. Aces and Eights or later versions of Metamorphosis Alpha) has automatically failed that test. Heck, I'd argue that any system using multiple tables and charts on a regular basis has already failed.

trechriron
11-27-2008, 04:03 PM
Actually, I think there's a market for games primarily about the setting, with a simple custom or customized system to make it a game. ...

I agree wholeheartedly. Many of the Indy games out there, especially the successful ones, seem to have been written by game-designer enthusiasts with a love for it, with a specific focus, with an intent to share, not to profit per se.

If you read the OP new system proposal, it's D&D. It's a Fantasy Heart-Breaker, and I would implore him\her to do further research, refine their goals\approach, and strongly consider NOT publishing another D&D clone.

I apologize for the "wet-blanket" Depresso Espresso(tm) diatribe, but MAN what this hobby would be if the THRONG of potential "re-designers" could step into the realm of "enhancers" and increase the product lines of already loved and played properties. Am I suggesting Indy designers stop designing? Nope. You just mentioned a pile of awesome games with a laser-focused goal. I am talking about all the "I am going to make Exalted, only better" or "I am going to capture the feel of 1st Edition D&D, but make the system better" types.

It just seems like a lot of wasted effort. Already several small publishers have spoken of struggles with the downturn in the economy. The RPG publishing business is difficult, and in a down economy it's going to be more so. I am not saying "drop your dream because it's naive"; I am saying "refine your dream so you can see it to fruition"!



On a related note: If the RPG business is struggling, that means the heavy-hitters are going to lose sales and make lower profits. The smaller publishers are probably going to go deep into the negatives. The wider the market, the less sales for each publisher. Where is the money going? Bigger publishers.

What if the down-turn in the economy closses the doors on one or more of them? Now you have a true cottage industry with low production values and even less "pizazz" than our current Western culture thrives on. What is the goal of P&P games? To help players find games and vice versa? To faciliate the hobby? Perhaps even to increase the involvement of our hobby?

We are a self-canibalizing hobby. We pirate books. We steal IP and publish it for free. We are constantly trying to "one-up" any of the established publishers with our own "this one's better" entry into the ENORMOUSLY saturated market (and a small one at that). we eat our own. We eat ourselves. I am sure this downturn in the economy is going to see our hobby (and its related market), change dramitically.

What drives sales of established properties? What do most RPGers pine for? Lust for? Scream for!?!? New product. It is the hallmark of a popular system, considered supported, and keeping the ADD-riddled throngs of us mad geniuses on the hook for more.

We don't need more new systems. We need more products and more support for the well-supported ones out there already.

Again, just my 4 cents (now)... :D

fmitchell
11-27-2008, 04:42 PM
On supporting existing systems:

Except for d20 3.x, most game systems are pretty much closed shop. Want to write for GURPS? Contact SJ Games. Want to write for BRP? Contact Chaosium. Want to write for WFRP? Contact Green Ronin, oops Fantasy Flight, and pray that the Games Workshop Powers-That-Be don't pull the license again.

Fan-produced work for free is a legal gray area: most publishers won't care too much if you slap your creations on your own website or a shared fanzine ... but they can go FOX/T$R if they want to.

Plus, there are contrarians among us who think that D&D (or some other favorite system) is broken, and needs more than house rules to make it "fun". That's how many systems after D&D started. Honestly, I think 4e would be more "my kind of game" if we ditched classes, powers, and most feats, and replaced them with a skill-based combat system. Oh, and replaced the d20 with 3d6. But I digress.

The followup (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/10/) to the original article on fantasy heartbreakers (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/9/) quotes Mike Holmes's suggestion that "Everyone should write a Heartbreaker." Not for publication, mind, just as therapy, and perhaps as an exploration of what the author is actually looking for in a game. Edwards even suggests that the experiment might yield a truly interesting game mechanic around which a much better game might form.

trechriron
11-28-2008, 03:26 AM
On supporting existing systems:

Except for d20 3.x, most game systems are pretty much closed shop. ...



Most game companies have some sort of submissions process with guidelines. It is possible to make a submission and publish a supplement; it certainly won't hurt to query them with your idea. :D




The followup (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/10/) to the original article on fantasy heartbreakers (http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/9/) quotes Mike Holmes's suggestion that "Everyone should write a Heartbreaker." Not for publication, mind, just as therapy, and perhaps as an exploration of what the author is actually looking for in a game. Edwards even suggests that the experiment might yield a truly interesting game mechanic around which a much better game might form.

This is great advice. If the OP is creating a game to learn the process, dig out his\her design goals, and feel out the business; all good then. I don't get that impression, hence my unsolicited advice. :eek: :D

fmitchell
11-28-2008, 01:30 PM
Most game companies have some sort of submissions process with guidelines. It is possible to make a submission and publish a supplement; it certainly won't hurt to query them with your idea.

True, but if they don't like the idea, or if that sort of supplement is not in their current business plan, or if an in-house guy is working on the same thing, that's it. Unless you want to port it to another system and try elsewhere.

Again, assuming you're in it for the writing credit and the small amount of money you'll get for indulging in your hobby. Otherwise, slapping it on a web page is just fine ... mostly.

Aidan
11-28-2008, 01:56 PM
Plus, there are contrarians among us who think that D&D (or some other favorite system) is broken, and needs more than house rules to make it "fun". That's how many systems after D&D started. Honestly, I think 4e would be more "my kind of game" if we ditched classes, powers, and most feats, and replaced them with a skill-based combat system. Oh, and replaced the d20 with 3d6. But I digress.


In other words, GURPS?

fmitchell
11-28-2008, 02:13 PM
In other words, GURPS?

GURPS with a roll-over system and a simplified advantage/disadvantage system. Actually, closer to The Fantasy Trip, SJ's first RPG. I really liked that game.

lokiare1
11-29-2008, 04:06 PM
First I'd like to say I plan on releasing this system for free under something similar to the GPL licence (or the one that says anyone can use it and modify it, but not for profit). People that wanted to profit from it could do so for a small one time fee. I started this for two reasons. I have new ideas all the time, and I am going to college for game development (game programming). So it is kind of practice. I plan on having online software that will allow players to play over the internet, with a kind of lobby for finding games (kinda like what Wizards wanted to do, but were too ignorant to complete on time). I would only charge a small fee for actual rule books that would be mailed to the purchaser and be a physical item. I would also do an online magazine that would include articles on the game written by players, and submitted modules. I really don't plan on making a lot of money, the goal would be to make enough money to pay for the small cost of running the website/game server.(less than $30 a month). I have a unique system that tracks the character life status. (at least I haven't seen anything like it). I also haven't seen a game where individual skills can be improved by usage. Another feature I haven't seen duplicated is a quick lookup chart for each monster that scales them from echelon (level) 1 to 50. Please if you see any part of the system I am creating duplicate something that was done in another system tell me so I can change it and make it better. I also looked at the D&D system for making a 3rd party rules supplement and I just don't have $1000.00 just lying around for something that may or may not work. (I think that its free now). I also can't work within the confines of their license agreement. If you make something for them even 3rd party you can't quote the books and they basically own what you make and can tell you to stop selling it at any point if they don't like it. Just so you know I've played cyberpunk, rifts, battle tech/ mechwarrior, dungeons and dragons 2.0 and up for over 18 years. So I do have a little experience with RPGs and the like. I'm open to any suggestions.

trechriron
12-02-2008, 02:40 AM
First I'd like to say I plan on releasing this system for free under something similar to the GPL licence (or the one that says anyone can use it and modify it, but not for profit). ...

This all sounds very interesting. Piles of work but a worthy vision.


I have a unique system that tracks the character life status. (at least I haven't seen anything like it).

Like a Cyberpunk life path? Like keeping a record of a sheet? Hit points?


I also haven't seen a game where individual skills can be improved by usage.

GURPS skills degrade when you don't use them. D6 (West End Games), you can only improve skills you have used. This is similar in BRP, Chaosium's house system. Burning Wheel has something like this.


Another feature I haven't seen duplicated is a quick lookup chart for each monster that scales them from echelon (level) 1 to 50.

True 20 Bestiary. I am sure Rolemaster HAS to have a table for this. :D


Please if you see any part of the system I am creating duplicate something that was done in another system tell me so I can change it and make it better.

With the number of systems out there, it would be nearly impossible for you not to. That is the crux of my previous points.


I also looked at the D&D system for making a 3rd party rules supplement and I just don't have $1000.00 just lying around for something that may or may not work. (I think that its free now).

It is free now, but you have to sign and register.


I also can't work within the confines of their license agreement. If you make something for them even 3rd party you can't quote the books and they basically own what you make and can tell you to stop selling it at any point if they don't like it.

Yep. That license is restrictive. The OGL is much better. :D


Just so you know I've played cyberpunk, rifts, battle tech/ mechwarrior, dungeons and dragons 2.0 and up for over 18 years. So I do have a little experience with RPGs and the like. I'm open to any suggestions.

Do more research. Run your ideas across some other game designers. Dig into this deeper. That is my suggestion.

lokiare1
12-02-2008, 03:43 PM
This all sounds very interesting. Piles of work but a worthy vision.

Yes I agree.


Like a Cyberpunk life path? Like keeping a record of a sheet? Hit points?

Actually there are several levels of health and when you take harm (damage) there is a percentage chance of going to the next lowest life level (based on the harm you take and your vigor). As you get lower you can get random difficulties that make it harder to continue.


GURPS skills degrade when you don't use them. D6 (West End Games), you can only improve skills you have used. This is similar in BRP, Chaosium's house system. Burning Wheel has something like this.

Each skill in my system gains occurrence (xp) when you use them and level based directly on how much you use the skills. Each skill has an echelon (level), and various stats that determine how fast, how powerful, and how much it costs to equip and use the skill.


True 20 Bestiary. I am sure Rolemaster HAS to have a table for this. :D

Ok, you got me on that one, but its just easier to use a look-up table, and not all of my features have to be new features.


It is free now, but you have to sign and register.

Yep. That license is restrictive. The OGL is much better. :D


I agree, and that is one of my points in doing this, Wizards made a bad move going over to that toy company. Sure they have funding enough now to make cool software and fancy books; but they just don't care about the community, and that's all role-playing games are.


Do more research. Run your ideas across some other game designers. Dig into this deeper. That is my suggestion.

Any game designers want to take a look and tell me what you think of the mechanics. My main concern is that before I get everything the way it should be someone will take my ideas (if they are good) and put them into an existing system and call it theirs.

Ok I just finished reading the Fantasy heartbreak article mentioned in an earlier post, and I agree with what it says. The only difference is instead of using Dungeons & Dragons as a springboard to build off of. I am actually going back and researching the different historical and mythical creatures, weapons, and armors to come up with a completely different game. For instance my weapon list includes the self bow, court sword, bihander, and claymore swords. The armor includes lamellar (for the most part D&D broke the historical armors down pretty well). All of the monsters are coming from historical or mythological origins. Not a single feature that was mentioned in the articale as being bad is found in my game system.

Etarnon
12-05-2008, 06:56 AM
OP, with respect, I think I can speak for a lot of guys here who have been down this road, and you are missing a part of it.

I don't think any naysayers here are trying to stop you.

What they are saying is...

Don't go from D&D to what smells, fells and tastes like D&D, sort of, with dungeons, mythical creatures, and swords.

What they are saying is go forth from D&D and create EVERWAY.

D&D went from AD&D to 3.X. from a few classes in core to the 250+ they got now with multiclass comboes, and the simple d20 mechanic.

But that's all WOTC property.

Go from Traveller to Skyrealms of Jorune.

Go from ...seeing a movie to Aliens the RPG.

People are not shotting you down, not really if you see it.

What I am saying here is think bigger, man, you seem to have the drive, and the sort of loose vision, don't hold yourself back to a fantasy game, with combat as focus, in the yes, waaay over saturated market.

I got my own system, I got my own setup. I'm not worried about my ideas being stolen, because ideas alone are not worth a damn. It''s the concrete execution of that idea.

Even so, anyone seeing my own Orion Arm setting can smell Traveller in the core.

The 300 page rulebook, designed, edited, typed out, with an ISBN on the shelves of your local gaming store... that's value.

Type up 3 chapters, clean it up, and Query SJG with your setting, for 4e GURPS Fantasy, Get it approved, they pay really fast, and their checks are good. In some cases a matter of days, once you have finished your MS and sent it.

Dragon, in it's heyday was so swamped with submissions it was a matter of weeks before you'd get an answer even a polite..we can't use this at this time from Kim Mohan.

Good luck.

We need more content, not generally more rules, unless it's a dirt simple thing that revives what 1e was, one page sheet simple to make a PC in 30 minutes. Much agreed.

This week, |I've taken multiple days to rig up a 3.5 PC, using 10 3.5 books... I'm already damn tired of the process.

Traveller, 1e D&D, Tunnels & Trolls. A half hour to make a PC, hand written, no sheet needed... because those games were that simple.

I damn miss those days. One DMG book, be it DMG, "The Traveller Book" or T&T. And those games are just as playable, because they relied on setting, and content, not rules expansions a la MtG.

No lie, good luck.

lokiare1
12-05-2008, 02:44 PM
Your probably right, so what I'm going to do is put the legal disclaimer on my documents, and slap them into a fancy PDF and then post it here for anyone to read or try, then maybe I can get some feedback, and see where I stand.

trechriron
12-05-2008, 04:01 PM
... Not a single feature that was mentioned in the article(sic) as being bad is found in my game system.

I disagree. This qualifies as a classic FHB. Don't take my word for it, however. Hit The Forge with some of your ideas. People there don't steal unless you say it's ok. Some very smart people there and it would be a good learning experience.

Be sure to read the rules first. They value structure and adherence to those rules. :D

lokiare1
12-06-2008, 02:43 PM
Whats the website address?

trechriron
12-08-2008, 12:39 PM
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/

Here is a summary WIKI --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Model

Also, there is a game design forum on RPG.net --> http://forum.rpg.net/forumdisplay.php?f=11

trechriron
12-08-2008, 12:40 PM
Your probably right, so what I'm going to do is put the legal disclaimer on my documents, and slap them into a fancy PDF and then post it here for anyone to read or try, then maybe I can get some feedback, and see where I stand.

I have been very vocal, so I for one would be glad to take a read-through. :D

Regardless of your legal worries, I would never rip someone off. I support the hobby and that kind of crap is NOT helpful.

lokiare1
12-08-2008, 10:16 PM
I've sent you an email so you can respond and I can send you the PDF. It is still a little rough around the edges, but it is workable.

lokiare1
12-16-2008, 11:52 AM
If anyone would like to see the pdf's please drop me a line. I was going to put them up on mega-upload, but it seems they are having problems.

trechriron
12-20-2008, 02:34 PM
Here's a great post on RPG.net regarding Fantasy Heartbreakers I think applies here.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=429859