PDA

View Full Version : Which Concentration Check?



CelestialBarbarian
10-17-2008, 05:16 AM
The half-chromium dragon fully-advanced scyllan hits Yamirus with a gargantuan tentacle, inflicting 30 points of damage and successfully grabing the physically-weak wizard. The scyllan, as a free action, transfers the wizard to a claw, which does then does another 26 points of (continuous) damage as it slowly constricts him. Yamirus, on his turn, attempts to cast a greater teleport spell. Under the grapple rules, Yamirus has to succeed on a Concentration check equal to 20 + the spell level, or 27. Under the continuous damage rules, Yamirus has to succeed at a Concentration check equal to 10 + half the continuous damage, or 23. Which Concentration check does he have to make? The higher one? Both?

A way that might make some sense would be to combine the two, because trying to cast a spell while both grappled and taking continuous damage should prove harder than casting a spell under either one individually. It would make sense to require a Concentration check with a DC = 20 + the spell level + half the continuous damage, or in this case, 40.

What do you think, and why? Thanks. :)

cplmac
10-17-2008, 09:30 AM
Sorry, but forgive me since I am not that well informed on the 3.x rules as much as 2E. When you say grapple, is this the act of being caught and held onto by something? If so, then would that mean that it would only count on the round that it took place on?

If the answer of both questions is yes, then I would on the turn of Yarimus' I would go with the 40. This is due to both actions happening on the same turn of the dragon. Now, if he doesn't make that check, on Yarimus' next turn, I would go with just the continuous damage check itself. This is due to he is already being held by the dragon as opposed to the dragon trying to grab hold of (grapple) him.

dentarthur
10-17-2008, 09:39 AM
If more than one type of distraction is present, make a check for each one; any failed Concentration check indicates that the task is not completed.
According to RAW, the caster should roll against both DCs and needs to succeed on both checks to get the spell through. I'd probably let him get away with just rolling the tougher check, but then, I'm a softie.

CelestialBarbarian
10-17-2008, 09:40 AM
Sorry, but forgive me since I am not that well informed on the 3.x rules as much as 2E. When you say grapple, is this the act of being caught and held onto by something? If so, then would that mean that it would only count on the round that it took place on?

If the answer of both questions is yes, then I would on the turn of Yarimus' I would go with the 40. This is due to both actions happening on the same turn of the dragon. Now, if he doesn't make that check, on Yarimus' next turn, I would go with just the continuous damage check itself. This is due to he is already being held by the dragon as opposed to the dragon trying to grab hold of (grapple) him.

I'm not sure I'm following all of what you're saying. A grapple is a special attack where you try to grab someone. Certain monsters have an improved grab ability with which they can make a free grapple check against a target they hit with a specified weapon. With the scyllan, it has improved grab with its tentacle attacks. When they scyllan hits with a tentacle it gets to make a free grapple check, and if it wins it has grabbed the target. The scyllan can then transfer the grabbed target and either transfer the target into a claw, or stuff the target in its mouth. Once the scyllan gets the target in its claw, it gets to constrict. If the scyllan puts the target in its mouth, the next round it can swallow the target (with another successful grapple check). If the scyllan puts the target in a claw, the scyllan can keep constricting it round after round unless it breaks free.

Does that help clarify the situation at all?

cplmac
10-17-2008, 09:43 AM
Yeah, CB, that is more or less what I was thinking, but wanted to make sure. That being the case, I will definately stand with what I stated above. Hope that helps.

CelestialBarbarian
10-17-2008, 09:45 AM
According to RAW, the caster should roll against both DCs and needs to succeed on both checks to get the spell through. I'd probably let him get away with just rolling the tougher check, but then, I'm a softie.

Where is that in the books? Thanks. :)

tesral
10-17-2008, 09:48 AM
According to RAW, the caster should roll against both DCs and needs to succeed on both checks to get the spell through. I'd probably let him get away with just rolling the tougher check, but then, I'm a softie.

Single situation, single roll. I would use the tougher.

CelestialBarbarian
10-17-2008, 09:49 AM
Where is that in the books? Thanks. :)

Oh, I found it on page 70. It's the last sentence before the table of Concentration check DCs. Thanks again! :)

I still like the combined DC. At epic levels the casters basically succeed automatically on DC 20 + spell level Concentration checks. Adding in half the constant damage injects some uncertainty and excitement into the Concentration roll, at least for a reasonably tough monster like the chromium half-dragon fuly-advanced scyllan.

nijineko
10-17-2008, 10:06 AM
scaling difficulties appropriately for the characters is one of the dm's jobs. ^^ in a situation meant to be a challenge, there should always be an element of uncertainty and the risk of failure. carry on.

CelestialBarbarian
10-17-2008, 10:23 AM
scaling difficulties appropriately for the characters is one of the dm's jobs. ^^ in a situation meant to be a challenge, there should always be an element of uncertainty and the risk of failure. carry on.

I agree! That's why I like the combined rule. At low levels the combined rule might be disastrous--although it couldn't be worse than the house rule of the guy on the Wizards website who just told me that he doesn't allow a caster to cast a spell when grappled at all--but at high levels not having a combined rule just takes the challenge out of casting while grappled. Yamirus, at 24th level, has a Concentration bonus of 24+3 = 27 + 2 Con bonus = 29. That means he can automatically make a DC 30 Concentration check, meaning that he can automatically cast even an epic spell while grappled! :)