View Full Version : Neither TWF nor THF...

10-15-2008, 05:46 PM
Well, I'm hopefully going into a play-by-post really soon with a character starting off as a level one swashbuckler, and I'm pondering his build... My first instinct was to target Swashbuckler 3, and then get four levels of Rogue (and Daring Outlaw) then carrying back on with Swashbuckler, turning him into the "if I have a partner to flank with and the target has a discernable anatomy, it's going to die" TWF build.

However, my character always struck me as more of a guy with just a rapier in his hand and fighting a single enemy alone with deft skill, which is just about the opposite of that. Improved Feint somewhat helps the solo situation, but it's only somewhat helpful, and gets comparatively worse on a TWF build as you still get just the one attack.

Is there anything I haven't heard of that brings single-wielding up to parity with two-handed weapons (pretty much the ideal "dueling" weapon)? You'd think the Duelist prestige class would seriously help out the single 1h weapon wielder, but that class is so laughable... I just can't find ANY way beyond going 2h weapon + high str to be effective in 1v1 combat, TWF + sneak attack doesn't really fit the character's style, and there seem to be no other practical options.

Rapier + Dagger wouldn't be a bad combination if TWF was the only problem, but the other problem is that he'd be relying on Sneak Attack for damage, which is only practical if you have someone flanking. I.e. if it wasn't 1v1. I know that DnD fights aren't 1v1, but the character really doesn't make any sense being so pitiful at it...

Thanks for any ideas you can bring to the table. If it's at all possible, I'd really rather not have to beg my DM for customized feats and prestige classes.

10-16-2008, 12:56 AM
what about skirmish damage instead? introduced with the scout base class, every time you move more than 10' in a round you gain bonus skirmish damage. fits nicely with a very mobile, possibly tumbling, duelist type. there is a feat that boosts the amount as well, if you move more than the 10' before attacking. one of the few classes / feats that rewards a move/attack style.

another possible prestige is the arcane duelist, if you're willing to sidetrack to pick up minimal arcane abilities, they have some nice class abilities... my favorite boosts your ac nicely. you'll want a high cha for this class. plus a high dex.

there is one weapon that is two handed and weapon finesse-able. but you didn't want to go that route i think.

10-16-2008, 05:20 PM
Hmmmmm... Scout doesn't quite fit the flavor; the guy's high society so he needs the social skills on Swashbuckler and Rogue. Also, even if flavor wasn't an issue, the Skirmishing still leaves me limited to one attack a round; it just removes the Bluff check.

I dug a bit more and someone pointed out the Deadly Defense feat from Complete Scoundrel. With Combat Expertise, I can combo with Deadly Defense for +1d6 damage and +2 AC for -2 to hit. Not the worst of deals... Also, at level nine, Improved Critical and Telling Blow (Sneak Attack damage every time you crit) each give ~2.5 damage per hit (i.e. that's 15% of the sneak attack damage at that level, and Improved Critical doubles its chance to activate, for a total of ~+5 damage).

That would also be all of my feats from 1-9. Combat Expertise + Deadly Defense is a very good deal once you can start taking the -2 at level two, IC and TB aren't AS awesome, but against creatures with discernable anatomy each is better than a weapon specialization, and it only gets better as you get more sneak attack dice. For level 12 I can take Shield Proficiency and put a bit of buckle in my swash (or... just mithral it and forget the feat ^_^). Heck, even without the feat and without enchantment, it's the same hit/AC exchange as Combat Expertise, so perhaps worth it starting from level three or so.

Deadly Defense obviously doesn't make me as good as a greatsword power attacker, but it's something at least...

10-16-2008, 06:39 PM
there are ways of being able to move and do a full attack... but i like the way you have found. i'll have to remember that combo. thanks!

Grumpy Old Man
10-16-2008, 06:45 PM
Finesse feat

10-16-2008, 07:21 PM
Finesse featWhile I appreciate the effort, Swashbuckler gets the feat for free, and even if it didn't it would certainly be at the top of my list.

And how can you move ten feet and still full attack? I'm just intrigued at this point.

10-17-2008, 03:51 AM
a number of ways. there are some class features... as well as a power and i think there is a spell too. they all involve emulating the pounce ability in some way. the power (the one i'm most familiar with) is psionic lion's charge. allows you to charge and make a full attack at the end.