View Full Version : The best generalist wizard ever made in the whole world ever!

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-16-2008, 04:19 PM
Help me make one please!

I am having difficulty choosing a prestige class, if one is even needed, as well as feats. All WotC published 3.5 books are available.

We are playing the Age of Worms adventure path 1st - 20th level.

Right now we are level 3 and here is what I have so far;

Female Elf Wizard 3
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 13 (yes I rolled VERY well!)

Wizard 1 1st Scribe Scroll, Collegiate Wizardry (Complete Arcane) + Elven Wizard Subsititution level 1 (Races of the Wild)
Wizard 2 2nd nothing
Wizard 3 3rd Craft Wondrous Item

Now I am looking at the Loremaster PrC and playing her as a super inquisitive person that has 6 Knowledge skills and is ALWAYS dropping some knowledge and will eventually be versed in every available language.

Here is what I had mapped out up to 20th level. I am not devoted to everything if there are better paths/PrCs/feats/etc... to choose. So far it seems that gold is scarce in these adventures so I am leary of taking tons of item creation feats, but that is about all there is to choose, from what I can tell. I am also not sold on Metamagic feats since as a generalist wizard I won't have a great deal of spell slots as a specialist CAN have.

Wizard 5 5th Craft Wand (bonus feat)
Wizard 6 6th Skill Focus (Knowkedge [the planes]) (for Loremaster prereqs.)
Loremaster 1 8th Secret (Secret Health)
Loremaster 2 9th Vatic Gaze (feat), Lore
Loremaster 3 10th Secret (+1 to AC)
Loremaster 4 11th Bonus Language
Loremaster 5 12th Craft Contingent Spell (feat), Secret (Spell Penetration)
Loremaster 6 13th Greater Lore (this is about as far as I am willing to go in this PrC, I really like the idea of Free Identify!)
Wizard 9 15th Chain Spell (Feat)
Wizard 10 16th Extend Spell (bonus feat)
Wizard 12 18th Elven Spell Lore (feat)

Then the rest Wizard up to 20th level for Wizard 14/Loremaster 6.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Help me out please.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-16-2008, 04:23 PM
OH! and no Mage of the Arcane Order, while it might be the best for a generalist wizard I don't really like it, just something about it that doesn't seem to fit.

That and the dumb Cooperative Spell feat prereq.

09-16-2008, 06:01 PM
that feat prereq did seem a bit irritating... unless the gm carefully works it into the story line, and unless another player has it, when will it ever see use? sanctum spell would have made more sense i think. ^^ i'll have to look over some wizard options, and get back to you.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-16-2008, 11:40 PM
that feat prereq did seem a bit irritating... unless the gm carefully works it into the story line, and unless another player has it, when will it ever see use? sanctum spell would have made more sense i think. ^^ i'll have to look over some wizard options, and get back to you.


Yeah, worst feat ever!

Mac Who Else
09-17-2008, 10:04 AM
In MY opinion, I love the mystic theurge class it's a little slower to get to, you need 3 ranks divine to go with your 3 ranks arcane (I took wizard Cleric, but in truth Soc/Divine soul might be better) after lvl 6 (3arcane/3divine) you start taking the class, and get spells for BOTH classes.

so a lvl 9 character is really a lvl 6arcane/6divine. very good class to have, allows you to have much more diversity and many more spells than a normal caster... you are of course giving up being the TOP of the line.... when most characters hit lvl 16 you will be level 13/13 (for spell casting purposes) this class only has 10 ranks, and I recommend the Geomancer as a second prestige class after that to continue this path. IF you took bard/druid then there is anotehr option, but I've never found a person who likes being a bard sooooo..... that's my suggestion.

as for feats....

Magic Devotion from the Complete Champions book is WONDERFUL (expecially if you take ranks in cleric, for the extra casts)
a NEEDED feat for ANY caster is Spell penetration and Improved Spell Pen. I recommend against craft spells, except maybe brew potion... problem with craft spells are normaly DMS do NOT give you time to craft them. Another really good feat if you have high wisdom is Zen Archery from the COmplete warriors guide, ALL ranged attacks (including spells #COUGH COUGH*) use Wisdom instead of Dex....

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-17-2008, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I was looking over that PrC last night, Mystic Theruge. Pretty interesting, although I am not sure I want to go Cleric. With my 13 Wisdom, I am only looking at getting up to 4th, maybe 5th level divine spells, and probably topping out at 8th level arcane spells. I don't like that trade off.

Also looking over it again, and reading the Analyze Dweomer spell, I am thinking Loremaster might be the way to go.

What about feats? I was thinking about dropping Craft Contingent Spell and Chain Spell for 2 Extra Slot feats. 2 extra spells per day for 2 feats? I am cool with that. Or maybe some Spell Mastery feats or Greater Spell Penetration.

I don't really like the idea of Metamagic feats eating up my higher level spell slots and limiting my castings per day. I can always use metamagic rods for that.

For real, gold is scarce in this adventure path. We are 3rd level and we hardly have 2,000 gp in items each, as the DMG suggests.

Keep the suggestions coming please.

Mac Who Else
09-17-2008, 10:47 AM
well It deepends on what you are aiming for, the biggest baddest spell at your highest level, or the most pat functunal character?

with ranks in cleric spells, you can HEAL yourself or your friends... if you take magic as one of your domains you can IMBUNE heal spells into another person or their gear so that they can heal themselves with you not near them.... It really goes to what you are looking for... so that's the real question.

if you want I can go through all the arcane classes for you lol as for your 13, that easily becomes a 14 with your lvl 4 stat bonus and then 8 and 12 get it to 16.... just a thought. but enough of that class you say no, that's cool lets see what else I can come up with for you... strait wizard class.....

I'll post again with a list for you lol, they will all be from the books, no homebrews from teh web or anything.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-17-2008, 10:56 AM
If we didn't have a cleric in the group I would consider it. It is tempting though. That would be an extremely versatile caster.


You might just be onto something here...

I'll look at some Divine feats and do some level progressions later on today and see what I can come up with.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-17-2008, 11:03 AM
Ah crap!

We also have a druid in the group!


Mac Who Else
09-17-2008, 11:25 AM
another option is the "Ultimate Magus." page 77 of Complete mage

You are a duel class wizard/sponatnius arcane caster (bard/sorc/etc) over the 10 levels you can 10 ranks in sponanius caster and 7 ranks in prepared spells. and a CRAP LOAD of special powers.

Mac Who Else
09-17-2008, 11:26 AM
druids and clerics are very different, they have some over lapping spells but not as many as people think, and druids don't get to DROP ANY spell they have to cast a CURE spell of that level.... which makes Clerics invaluable.

09-18-2008, 09:54 PM
First off, and this is just me, I would've aimed for Gray Elf. The +2 to intelligence is good for wizards, even if the -2 to Strength is not. Good to see you have optimized the combo of feats. 5 spells every level. Awesomeness.

Um, you also are accounting for your Dead Level class features, right? If you have no idea what I'm talking about, search "Dead Levels" on the Wizards of the Coast website and go to the first article. For every level after first (for wizards), they have a very minor (but possibly impactive) class feature. I can't remember the one wizards get. It's something to do with writing in your spellbook.

AH. It's... you get... okay, I think I remember. You can increase the spellcraft DC of you writing new spells into your spellbook to, in turn, make it more difficult for others to copy from your spellbook, because your inscriptions begin to actually come off the page and dance around. I'm pretty sure that's it. I don't know numbers, so you should definitely check it yourself.

09-18-2008, 11:33 PM
well, i still haven't done the in depth research... but i do suggest that you look into the flaw rules if permitted by your dm. two bonus feats at first level, even with the two flaw penalties are pretty nice. alternate class features on your familiar or first level feat are also worth looking into, as are racial substitution levels.

since i'm known as the psionics guru here, i'll suggest something psionic. ^^ alternate psion base class "erudite", with alternate class feature "spellpower". in short, an erudite is a psion with almost no limit on the number of powers known, but they can only manifest a limited number of unique powers in a given day. for example, say they can manifest 4 unique powers in a day: in the first encounter they manifest energy ray, psionic levitate, astral construct, and force shield. they still have lots of power points, but they can only manifest those four powers until the next day.

the alternate class feature spellpower works as follows: in exchange for your bonus first level feat as an erudite, you gain the ability the learn spells and convert them into powers. you can learn up to one level lower than your max level of normal powers. plus you get spellcraft as a class skill. there is a small xp cost, plus some skill checks needed to use this ability. still, pretty sweet manifesting both spells and powers!! =D

now there's some generalizing!

09-22-2008, 07:11 AM
I am unfamiliar with the psionic option, but it does sound powerful. Flaws are a great way to pick up those extra feats required to get into a prestige class!

Mystic Theurge is nice in the quantity of spells, but you lose in quality and power. I played one up to about 18th level. You always have something to cast and the two most plentiful lists to chose from, but lack the big power and the top level spells. You can lessen the blow somewhat with things like practiced spellcaster and such, but will probably be disappointed at higher levels compared to a single class spellslinger.

Persistent spell power is no longer a good option.

The best prc I have tried is initiate of the seven veils. You lose the least compared to most prestige classes and gain some good defensive powers. Go generalist wizard into the class, do not specialize.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-22-2008, 09:21 AM
Thanks for the info.

I want to mention that she is already 3rd level and there is no going back to make adjustments or retraining, this is usually how our gm run modules.

I did pick up my 1st level as an elven racial substitution level, hence the general wizard idea.

I have only knid of skimmed over the initiatie of the evenfold veil prc but will have to look into it more thouroghly.

What are everyones thoughts on the Archmage prc? And what are some good wizard feats?

This is my first wizard if you couldn't tell.

10-02-2008, 02:26 PM
I'm actually making a generalist right now.

It is a gray elf using the Domain Wizard and a fighter feat instead of scribe scroll UA variants as well as the super-awesome Spontaneous Divination variant from Complete Champion.

This is what the build looks like:

5 lvls of wizard, 3 levels of Ruathar from Champions of the Wild, 1 level of Mindbender from C. Arcane, 4 lvls of Fate Spinner from C. Arcane, 5 levels of archmage. After that, i'm not sure... Incantrix from the Forgotten Realms PG maybe?

Practiced Spellcaster from the Forgotten realms setting. Bonous spells are your friends!

Improved Initiative for the fighter feat to replace scribe scroll

2 spell focus feats (Transmutation and Enchantment for me) and skill focus spellcraft for Archmage reqs

The AWESOME Mindsight feat to take full advantage of the Mindbender telepathy- it makes short work of invisability and lets you scan the creature type and intelegence level of every creature within 100 feet! None can fool you! None can HIDE from you!

Not overpowered- but fun and far from completely suboptimal. All of the PRC's offer fun abilities and have great role playing potential. This build is strong on versatility- which after all is the entire appeal of the generalist wizard. Spontaneous divination means that you do not have to prepare the spells that you never seem to have on hand when you need to cast them and never seem to need when you have them prepared. Being able to swap out a fourth level slot for Assay Spell Resistance in the middle 0f combat can be a lifesaver, as can having your target re roll (fate spinner) if he manages to resist the spell anyway.

The Tinker Gnome (basic Dragonlance gnome) is by FAR the best spellcasting race though if you ask me.

Actually, drop the damned fate spinner- it was filler to be frank. four levels of divine oracle will serve this character better- particularly with the spontaneous divination option taken instead of the fifth level feat. It does require a useless feat (skill focus, knl. relegion) but it's well worth it. As my DM has emphatically forbidden incantrix (I can see why) it also provides a few more levels of advancement if I can't think of anything to do after Archmage has run it's course. My DM has also ruled that Elf substitution levels (taking 1 and 3) are compatible with the domain wizard feature, as UE does not state that a D. Wiz needs to give up specialization for his Domain- he simply needs to be a generalist wizard, which the elf sub lvs accomplish quite nicely:D
Other DM's may see this quite differently though I am afraid.
And with a humming bird familier which will give absurd bonouses to init with the sub lvls.

10-03-2008, 09:07 AM
Oh- and if you don't mind being a generalist wizard missing 2 wizard caster levels, but having level nine cleric spells before your party's cleric gets them, try

wiz5/mindbender1/UR-PRIEST2/mystic theurge 8/:lol:

Inquisitor Tremayne
10-03-2008, 04:51 PM
I think I am going Wizard 7/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3.

Vatic Gaze is my new favorite feat! Detect Magic at will!!?? Yes please!

10-05-2008, 10:48 PM
bards can cure themselves too... worth a mention.