4e and campaign building

[Vulture]

How does 4e work for campaign and custom world building? Im in the middle of a 3.5 campaign and i am hoping to start planning my next campaign soon.

[DeathByDM]

Same basic idea as 3.5, but just easier and less options. NPC/monster creation is definitely 12092173591826510256 times easier.

[Arch Lich Thoth-Amon]

We have two different DM's that are running their own conversion games. Jermaine has updated WLD to 4.0, and Tamerath(on these boards) has updated a Ravenloft campaign to 4.0. It really is pretty simple.

Thoth-Amon

[Farcaster]

Moving this thread to the D&D section. The Campaign Resources (http://www.penandpapergames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=20) section is more geared towards posts that have usable content for other DMs / Players.

[Valdar]

Campaigns and worlds are typically rules-agnostic, so there's little difference. Yes, there are no classes called Druid or Barbarian in 4th ed yet, but NPCs don't typically have PC classes anyway. If you want to make a custom monster called an "Orc Barbarian", and give him a rage ability, nobody will sue you for copyright infringement (in fact, there's a monster in the MM- the Cambion- that has a "Whirlwind Attack" that you can just steal and use.)

[ronpyatt]

Agreed. I find that 4e world building is pretty much standard fantasy.

Although campaign and world are interwoven, I find that for campaign building there has been a change in the development approach. 4e reduced the mechanical influence that came from the core classes, namely the central spell list is gone. Characters are specific, less generalized, and much smaller beings in a wider world. They're customized to fit their niche in the world. For me, it was easier creating a fantasy campaign that fits this approach.

Arguably, the addition of rituals make constructing a rich campaign easier. Because giving regular folks that ability to use ritual magic every once in a while makes for a lot of story possibilities.

Since encounter creation is easier, maybe this gives the GM more time to work on the campaign and world.

[Thriondel Half-Elven]

i agree. world building is the same. and will be. you make it how you want it.

now campaign building may be different. i don't really remember how i did my old one. i tried to write out every detail. now i try to get the basic idea down and go with the flow

[Valdar]

now i try to get the basic idea down and go with the flow

Good advice for any DM/GM. Over-write, and you're removing the players' ability to play in THEIR fantasy. It's a time-honored DM/GM skill to be able to sit back and let the players write your world/adventure/encounter/BBEG themselves...

[Thriondel Half-Elven]

Good advice for any DM/GM. Over-write, and you're removing the players' ability to play in THEIR fantasy. It's a time-honored DM/GM skill to be able to sit back and let the players write your world/adventure/encounter/BBEG themselves...

true true. i think back on my first attempt at a game and i realize now that i led the PC's along on a string. we still had fun though (it was the first time any of us had played)

but its so much more fun to go with what the players want.

[Kalanth]

Like they say, Saying Yes is an Artform. :) I had all these plans to set the party up and make it look like they commited a murder, but just before I could end the session on the cliff hanger the cleric jumped in with a request to use Healing Word on the bad guy that ran himself through. When I was new I would have shot that down, but instead I said sure and now I need to rethink the next few steps in the plot line.

I enjoy writing out a lot of rather general things in terms of plot, and I have fully fleshed out my main continent in the campaign world. For me the key element now is to allow the players to have an influence in the world. They like to know that I am not just clutching to what I wrote and stubornly protecting it from change, but instead allowing the world to change and grow and letting the players have a role in that.

[Valdar]

Like they say, Saying Yes is an Artform. :) I had all these plans to set the party up and make it look like they commited a murder, but just before I could end the session on the cliff hanger the cleric jumped in with a request to use Healing Word on the bad guy that ran himself through. When I was new I would have shot that down, but instead I said sure and now I need to rethink the next few steps in the plot line.


If it comes up again, you wouldn't have needed to allow it- Healing Word has the target "ally", which is defined as "willing, friendly target who is not you". Even your party members can refuse a healing word (they probably won't, of course- it's more likely they'll refuse a Leaf on the Wind when the Warlord isn't asking permission before shoving his allies around...)

[Kalanth]

If it comes up again, you wouldn't have needed to allow it- Healing Word has the target "ally", which is defined as "willing, friendly target who is not you". Even your party members can refuse a healing word (they probably won't, of course- it's more likely they'll refuse a Leaf on the Wind when the Warlord isn't asking permission before shoving his allies around...)

That's right! Ah well, it felt fun to say yes anyways cause sometimes it is very fun to react to a sudden change in the campaign plot line. Have to admit my first thought was to steel from Lord of the Rings and go with the denial stage, having the brother of the guy the players healed mentally think that he is dead no matter how hard they try to prove otherwise. :)

[frank634]

Campaing building in 4e is much easier then it was in 3/3.5. This was done by design.

NPC's and monsters fall in a seperate catagory as the player characters. In fact, the DMG describes how to create NPC's and Monsters. Creating any of the NPC's can be done in less time.

Tracking stats for monster powers are easier for NPCs and Monsters. The "Recharge" aspect of NPC/Monster powers do not relate to players.

There is a great artical in one of the recent Dragon magazines from the creators of the Monster Manual. They really describe what the mind set was when they came of with the rules for monsters and npc's.

Now, as for converting from 3.5 to 4 fairly streight forward. Monsters that were tough in 3.5 are just as tough in 4. However, the biggest thing to worry about is the Monsters in 4 were made to be in encounter groups not as individual monsters. So usually, when I was converting my 3.5 written adventures, i usually have to add more monsters. This can be challenging if you created a dungeon with small rooms. I found the smallest room size for the encounters of forth edition should be no less then 30x30. This can cause problems for many conversions.