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kujester
09-04-2008, 02:31 PM
I want to start off by saying that I love Saga edition, and that I have been drooling over the (significantly delayed) release of The Force Unleashed for my console at home. At the same time I am terrified of what the future holds as far as balanced Saga Ed characters go when the RPG supplement releases in two weeks.

I wanted to get people's thoughts and impressions on what they think will happen when the book comes out, and see if people have some ideas on what the "Unleashed" feat means for this edition... And then find out if anyone was right when it comes out. :)

Webhead
09-04-2008, 04:32 PM
At this point, I'm preparing myself for the Force Unleashed guide to be full of "super kewl" Force powers, techniques and secrets because that seems to be essentially what the game is about. That said, I'm expecting a feel more akin to the Clone Wars cartoons in terms of what the Force Unleashed book will encourage with regard to the Force.

That's not entirely a "bad" thing, but as you said, it may become an issue of difference of expectation and "balance" of the Force rules.

For example, from what I've seen in the upcoming game, I wouldn't exactly consider it strictly "canon" in terms of what one is supposed to be capable of with the Force. Throwing Star Destroyers around? Come on...then why did it take so much effort and concentration for Yoda to lift the X-Wing out of the swamp? To me, it's like more of a Star Wars "What If?" where you get to have fun exploring massive levels of power and carnage with the Force...hence, Force Unleashed.

How that will translate into RPG terms is sketchy, but even if it turns out to be "imbalancing" with the game as a whole, it could still prove to be fun as its own kind of twist on a traditional Star Wars campaign.

Time will tell.

kujester
09-04-2008, 04:47 PM
I agree that it's not entirely bad to have super-cool new powers.

My concern has always been for the players who don't want to be Jedi. It may not be so cool for them if the Jedi keep powering up to ridiculous levels and leave them behind. It's definitely true for how the movies tend to function, but not really the best way to build a coherent adventuring party for an RPG. I've played games like that before, and generally, some people stop having fun.

Webhead
09-04-2008, 05:32 PM
I agree that it's not entirely bad to have super-cool new powers.

My concern has always been for the players who don't want to be Jedi. It may not be so cool for them if the Jedi keep powering up to ridiculous levels and leave them behind. It's definitely true for how the movies tend to function, but not really the best way to build a coherent adventuring party for an RPG. I've played games like that before, and generally, some people stop having fun.

One of the nice things about the KotOR sourcebook was that it wasn't entirely devoted to "powering up" Force-users. The other classes got their share of cool stuff as well, which was a very nice touch. One can only hope that the Force Unleashed guide will do the same.

The only potential problem that I'm forseeing with Saga now is the inevitable 3.5-esque bloat that will doubtlessly ensue. Pretty soon each class will have volumes of Talents to choose from, and Talents may become the new "Feats". Feats were where 3.5 got out of control. I hope Talents are a little more reigned in this go 'round.

canadiansatan
09-04-2008, 11:38 PM
My guess is that there will be an "Unleashed" talent tree.

KOTOR had pretty well balanced additions. I'd bet we have nothing to worry about. Just modified versions of force thrust and move object.

kujester
09-05-2008, 08:56 AM
I know there is supposed to be an "Unleashed" Feat or Talent... No idea what it does though.

My other thought on Force Power stuff was that instead of or in addition to upping the power levels of Force powers that it would allow you to combine Force powers and do interesting tricks as Full Round actions. For example, in the demo and trailer videos, the Apprentice often grips people and then Lightsaber Throws them in the chest or electrocutes them as a finisher.

I am hoping that what the book does is encourage people to be more creative with Force powers instead of going to extremes on power level.

Webhead
09-05-2008, 10:16 AM
I know there is supposed to be an "Unleashed" Feat or Talent... No idea what it does though.

My other thought on Force Power stuff was that instead of or in addition to upping the power levels of Force powers that it would allow you to combine Force powers and do interesting tricks as Full Round actions. For example, in the demo and trailer videos, the Apprentice often grips people and then Lightsaber Throws them in the chest or electrocutes them as a finisher.

I am hoping that what the book does is encourage people to be more creative with Force powers instead of going to extremes on power level.

Aye. That would be very cool.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-05-2008, 04:16 PM
Unleashed is a new feat.

And you can already pull starships out of orbit with the current rules, check the last paragraph of Move Object and spending a Destiny Point.:biggrin:

My guess is that there really won't be that much over the top stuff that we actually see in the game ported over to the RPG. After all from what I have seen you can still pretty much do whatever is in the game already with a few good rolls and some creative descriptions of the action by the GM.

There may be new rules on different sort of combos like make an attack and a Force Slam check as a standard action or some nonsense. Or that could be what the Unleashed feat allows you to do.

Or maybe a rule for making attacks while you are in the air. I do that a lot in the demo that I ahve been playing. Yes if you have a 360 go download the demo RIGHT FREAKING NOW! Its awesome!

As overwhelming as it looks I don't think it is that much different than what we have already. There is a PC in our group that has focused on Force Powers and we call him The Force Unleashed because he can win almost every battle for us just using Force Slam and Mind Trick. And my character in our last game just dealt out 60 points of damage with a judicious use of a Destiny point and Battle Strike. Did I mention we are only 5th level?

The Force is already UNLEASHED! MMMWWWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

kujester
09-05-2008, 04:34 PM
Unleashed is a new feat.

And you can already pull starships out of orbit with the current rules, check the last paragraph of Move Object and spending a Destiny Point.:biggrin:


Still, it requires a roll - the Destiny Point unlocks the ability to roll for a Colossal (Station) target, it does not mean automatic success, nor does it allow you to move the Star Destroyer all that far or do it nearly as cooly as the Apprentice seems to. :)



My guess is that there really won't be that much over the top stuff that we actually see in the game ported over to the RPG. After all from what I have seen you can still pretty much do whatever is in the game already with a few good rolls and some creative descriptions of the action by the GM.


My best guess is that it increases the number of DC tiers allowed... There are so many Force powers now that max out at a DC 25-35 check to do maximum effect... It'd be cool to have additional levels above that and see what happens.



There may be new rules on different sort of combos like make an attack and a Force Slam check as a standard action or some nonsense. Or that could be what the Unleashed feat allows you to do.

Or maybe a rule for making attacks while you are in the air. I do that a lot in the demo that I ahve been playing. Yes if you have a 360 go download the demo RIGHT FREAKING NOW! Its awesome!


I agree... Fraking Awesome. ;)



As overwhelming as it looks I don't think it is that much different than what we have already. There is a PC in our group that has focused on Force Powers and we call him The Force Unleashed because he can win almost every battle for us just using Force Slam and Mind Trick. And my character in our last game just dealt out 60 points of damage with a judicious use of a Destiny point and Battle Strike. Did I mention we are only 5th level?

I have had some similar experiences when players choose to really specialize. Any of them that don't water down abilities end up being unbelievable difficult to take down.


The Force is already UNLEASHED! MMMWWWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

But it can only get ... More Unleashed???? :eek:

Webhead
09-05-2008, 06:30 PM
...As overwhelming as it looks I don't think it is that much different than what we have already. There is a PC in our group that has focused on Force Powers and we call him The Force Unleashed because he can win almost every battle for us just using Force Slam and Mind Trick. And my character in our last game just dealt out 60 points of damage with a judicious use of a Destiny point and Battle Strike. Did I mention we are only 5th level?...

Yes, Jedi PCs heavily invested in Force Powers can be quite potent. It's actually been a real rarity in my game so far for the Jedi to swing their lightsabers at all, so long as they've got powers left in the suite. Especially at low levels when attack bonuses are low, the Force Powers dominate the battlefield heartily. Then again, maybe I've just got too many Jedi PCs...:)

kujester
09-05-2008, 11:30 PM
I was starting to get that feeling myself actually in a campaign I just ran. Go figure. :)

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-06-2008, 09:25 PM
Due to some insider information I now know what the Unleashed feat does!

It opens up the option to Unleashed abilities that from the sound of it, sound like they are grand epic things.

One example is Darth Nihlus's destruction of Katarr.

The players and GM are encouraged to work these in at story appropriate moments.

Thats all I know for now!;)

kujester
09-07-2008, 04:18 PM
Hmmm... I feel almost underwhelmed by that. A good GM would be willing to work with a player for those larger cinematic moments anyway. Weird weird. I guess I just expected more of a rules mechanic. I suppose there could be something attached to it though... Fun. :)

Thanks for the inside info.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-08-2008, 06:24 PM
See this thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1084886) for what is in the new book!

Enjoy!

Webhead
09-08-2008, 07:33 PM
Sounds very interesting. I know I'll be picking it up at any rate. Though I kinda feel in agreement on the issue of "too many Prestige Classes". I was kinda hoping that they would keep that to a minimum in Saga with the help of the Talent Trees.

canadiansatan
09-08-2008, 08:28 PM
Sounds very interesting. I know I'll be picking it up at any rate. Though I kinda feel in agreement on the issue of "too many Prestige Classes". I was kinda hoping that they would keep that to a minimum in Saga with the help of the Talent Trees.

I thought they did a pretty good job in Saga Ed with prestige classes. I saw just enough for everyone with a character concept to have a way to go, but not too many to find what you want.

The only thing I would have done differently was make Elite trooper easier to get to, and in clude the new gladiator and melee duelist as talent trees.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-08-2008, 11:53 PM
I am kind of mixed on the whole prestige class issue.

Currently, well with TFU coming out, there seem to be an overwhelming number of talents and feats to choose from already. Just thinking about the talent trees alone there are dozens upon dozens of different character concepts that can be created, fine tuned, and tweaked.

Prestige classes I think help alleviate some of that overwhelmingness by offer more defined character concepts.

As it stands now there is very little reason to take a PrC in Saga edition when the promise of more talents and feats from the core classes makes such a good case.

The only reason to take a PrC is to add a special extra something to an encounter of some sort that benefits the group or individual in some way. Those benefits weigh equally in my mind against a talent or feat that could be gained instead.

So a multitude of PrCs doesn't really bother me. And this is what, 6 or 7 PrCs out of 4 sourcebooks? Considering WotCs record, thats pretty good!

canadiansatan
09-10-2008, 12:00 AM
My view on this whole issue is that people are looking at charater generation backwards. The way to make a character is to have a concept and try to use the options to fit your character idea.

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-10-2008, 10:03 AM
My view on this whole issue is that people are looking at charater generation backwards. The way to make a character is to have a concept and try to use the options to fit your character idea.

True, but don't deny the ideas that PrC's can spark!

I have been wanting to make an Elite Trooper that looks just like the woman in the SECR ever since RCR!!

Webhead
09-10-2008, 10:15 AM
On a related note, I just watched Gamespot.com's Force Unleashed Marathon video (about 2 hours long) last night in which they play a bit of the 360, PS3 and Wii versions. Very awesome. I really look forward to playing the game. Sadly, the video has helped me decide that I don't think I will pick up the Wii version which means I'll have to buy a 360 (yikes) before I get a chance to play (or talk my brother into buying it so I can play it on his).

Weren't there recent talks about another X-Box price-drop in the near future? :pray:

Inquisitor Tremayne
09-10-2008, 10:21 AM
Weren't there recent talks about another X-Box price-drop in the near future? :pray:


Probably considering that High Def is on the way out to make room for Blue Ray. I have a feeling that this switch over from High Def DVD to Blue Ray is not going to take as long as the switch from VHS to DVD.

I LOVE my 360!

Webhead
09-10-2008, 11:01 AM
If I end up getting a 360, it would be the second time I bought a console specifically for a Star Wars game. :)

I bought my original X-Box so that I could play KotOR. ;)

Glad I did though, because there were a handful of really good games that I got to play on it.

And it does look like X-Box prices dropped again. It looks like the "Core" console is now slated at $199 and the 20GB Premium is $259. Still quite steep, but I really wanna play FU. Maybe I'll wait until Christmas for justification...

vadersson
09-10-2008, 03:21 PM
Luckily I have a Wii and my friend has a 360. Keep in mind the Wii get the new Clone Wars lightsaber battles game. I think they just took the Wii Force Unleashed engine and added all the other characters from the Star Wars universe. Still it looks cool and I have the Red and Blue LED sabers for my Wii. I can feel the Force already...

Thanks,
Duncan