Ravenloft

[Tamerath]

So I'm putting together a Ravenloft campaign and seeing as it's not going to be released for awhile (if at all) I'm not going to hold my breath and wait.

Reading on another message board I grew a little frustrated with what people were saying. Everyone was like, "Ravenloft in 4th? No chance!...Heroes are too heroic, there isn't any fear there, monsters are push overs, you couldn't build it properly...etc."

My aim is to stimulate a recreation of Ravenloft, and I would like to invite you all in helping me if you are so inclined. So right now I have just the basics...and I'll share them with you now.

I'd say that Ravenloft is a demiplane located inside the Shadowfell. Rather than having towns as points of light. It is the players themselves that are the only points of light in Ravenloft.

I'd say that monsters have the upper hand in Ravenloft over the PCs. (hard encounters)

Maybe the Vistani in 4th Edition would be a large group of gypsy Shadar-kai?

I can't do a recreation of Castle Ravenloft or House on Gryphon Hill till sometime after 6th level so what would be a good way towards heading in that direction?

Can't wait to hear your thoughts. There will probably be a campaign evolution posted on my blog in the future for those interested.

[Dimthar]

So I'm putting together a Ravenloft campaign and seeing as it's not going to be released for awhile (if at all) I'm not going to hold my breath and wait.

Reading on another message board I grew a little frustrated with what people were saying. Everyone was like, "Ravenloft in 4th? No chance!...Heroes are too heroic, there isn't any fear there, monsters are push overs, you couldn't build it properly...etc."


I do too want/plan to run "Ravenloft" under the 4E, although it is going to be a mix of Forgotten Realms / Ravenloft (See thread: Around the Realms in 20 Levels in the Campaign Resources). So I am waiting for the FR Players Guide so they have more options in Classes/Races.

While working in my first time as GM of Call of Cthulhu I realized that even with the darkest, evilest and most horrific environment I will be able to describe, if the players are not willing to play their part, use their imagination and "pretend" they are scared, there is nothing I can do.

The scenario should be presented to scare the PCs, not the players. The players job is to react accordingly . The game mechanics (fear and horror checks) are there only to define the consequences of it.

I assume you either have the 2nd or 3.X Ed of Ravenloft, both have a fair amount of suggestions to overcome your concerns of the players being to heroic. In 2nd Edition there was even a "Domain" from Dark Sun, and there were some recommendations to "scare" those though Dark Sun Players.

The Van Ritchen's Guides are great resources to put the players in the investigator mode (Guide to Ghosts is the best one in that matter IMHO).

.

[ronpyatt]

I remember there being something about negative levels or level drain, which can be simulated with weakened condition, post-resurrection conditions, or extended loss of healing surges.

4e suggests using zones where powers with keywords get special attention. (Like at a graveyard, the castle, near the drinking well.) This can be to the detriment of the PC's, but can also bring a glimmer of hope in the most dire of circumstances.

[Webhead]

While working in my first time as GM of Call of Cthulhu I realized that even with the darkest, evilest and most horrific environment I will be able to describe, if the players are not willing to play their part, use their imagination and "pretend" they are scared, there is nothing I can do.

The scenario should be presented to scare the PCs, not the players. The players job is to react accordingly . The game mechanics (fear and horror checks) are there only to define the consequences of it.

True. Horror is tough. Atmosphere can really do wonders. Call of Cthulhu is a tough game to do real justice because to really get players "feeling it", it's best to indulge the atmosphere (playing at night in an empty room, with candle light and glow-in-the-dark dice). But you can still have a successful (and spooky) game. You just have to help you and your players get into the spirit of it and remind them that they should be acting scared.

[Webhead]

One of the most effective means of communicating "horror" in an RPG is by maintaining "surprise". By surprising your players with unforseen situations, you shake the foundations of their "expectancy" for the game. People fear the unknown. You can't prepare for what you don't know is coming...and players are afraid of nothing more than being unprepared (and thus feeling vulnerable).

[Tamerath]

I had thoughts personally of what made the original Ravenloft adventures I ran when I was younger awesome.

In 4th Edition I could make a werewolf (or anything really) solo or elite of higher level than the party and have the sucker chase them through the whole module

Also I was thinking about taking Expedition to Castle Ravenloft OR it's original I6 module and remaking it 4th Edition style. I think I'd make it Paragon tier though...hmm....don't know.

As Wizards and Swords and Sorcery really didn't do overly much to advance the timeline beyond 2nd edition (only a guess...I didn't get into the white wolf stuff for Ravenloft) I could do anything really...have the pc's experience the Grand Conjunction or go through the Grim Harvest Series!!


On a side note: I just talked to one of my players today...he asked to play the preview Artificer from Ebberon...at first I was like..hmmmm...I don't know..then he Really upted his ante. "Ravenloft draws from all worlds right? Why not Ebberon now? Imagine Van Richten instead of a rogue class...being able to do what Artificers do? Or Johnny Depp in Sleepy Hallow. A real scientist that learns more about the Demiplane of Dread's horrors and sets about to understand them." Well, after this I got hooked.

[Tamerath]

I found most of the grand conjunction series online! That's great! Now that I have a base I can build and 4th Edition jazz it up!

[tesral]

Reading on another message board I grew a little frustrated with what people were saying. Everyone was like, "Ravenloft in 4th? No chance!...Heroes are too heroic, there isn't any fear there, monsters are push overs, you couldn't build it properly...etc."


I've been of the opinion that heroes are too "Heroic" in Ravenloft for some time. Forry isn't new in that respect.

The problem AISI is the nature of Gothic Horror and the nature of Heroic Fantasy are at cross purposes. Gothic Horror predisposes that there are powers and things "greater" than the nearly helpless Protagonists. "Things man was not meant to know" type stuff. Heroic Fantasy predisposes that the heroes can handle nearly anything with pluck and a good sword. The Genres violate each other's trops.

Can Gothic Horror be done in D&D. I really don't think so. It's more than lots of arches and dark halls. Can Horror be done in D&D? Certainly. You might be able to give it a Gothic flavor with enough mood lighting and organ music.

Not to rain on the parade, but if you understand what you are up against you have a better chance of overcoming the difficulties.. Read a lot of Gothic Horror, get an idea for the flavor and how mostly helpless everyone really is. Now, add the canon four D&D classes to that book.

Recommendation? Ditch D&D. If d20 you must have go d20 Modern and severally limit access to magic. Guns are fine (mostly useless against classic Gothic monsters), but you need to go super low magic to get the Gothic feel. Magic is what the bad guys use.

[Tamerath]

Not to rain on the parade, but if you understand what you are up against you have a better chance of overcoming the difficulties.. Read a lot of Gothic Horror, get an idea for the flavor and how mostly helpless everyone really is. Now, add the canon four D&D classes to that book.

You know Tesral, that's really good advice. I actually think I would definately go the other way with my games...More Horror over Gothic Horror. I know Ravenloft was known for Gothic Horror but my flavor kinda overshoots that and goes staight for the fear. This might seem funny but even reading old Conan the Barbarian literature inspires a darker tone that I channel into my game. Some of H.P. Lovecraft also adds some flavor to the game.

Where I actually think I'm going to break some of Ravenloft's old rules is when it comes to magic. Old Ravenloft had a lot of changes to powers of mages and clerics...but I really think this can be overcome if you properly prepare against what the PC's typically have at their disposal.

All the same Tesral, sincerely I appreciate the advice and look forward to anything else you bring to the table.

[gdmcbride]

If you really want to get the Gothic Horror vibe ... and I agree with Tesral that D&D is ill suited to the genre ... there is one definite strong undeniable choice.

Basic Roleplaying. (http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=1256)

And besides its a great book.

Gary

[Dimthar]

Can Gothic Horror be done in D&D. I really don't think so. It's more than lots of arches and dark halls. Can Horror be done in D&D? Certainly. You might be able to give it a Gothic flavor with enough mood lighting and organ music.


I agree with Tesral. My assumption is that you and/or your players want to play DnD 4E and you want your campaign have the "Ravenloft Mood/Theme".

The first approach of the designers was to strip the PCs of a lot of their powers and abilities. The obvious victims were magic users, psionics and paladins. They tried to do it in 2 ways: The power simply did not work (e.g. detect evil) or the results were diminished or corrupted. It was a hell of a work for the GM to keep track of these changes, but they paid off.

The trick is not to make them feel that you gave them a powerful sword and now you remove it because is to powerful.

The second one (for not Ravenloft Natives) was the "Outlandish" feel. Here Language Barriers, Customs and Racism play a major part. This is pure Role-playing.

- I'll burn that tiefling at the stake! (Sorry George, you know how important to me others "specially angry mobs" opinions are, we'll resurrect you in the next town ... as a Zombie!).

The third one and here is where the Van Ritchen's Guide come into play, was not to make the monsters uber-powerful, but instead to make them immune to "Common Powers". Each villain had to be done special in some way, and the way to defeat their "Immunity" was by doing "research / investigation" on the history and motives of the monster. A Ghost could be defeated with a sword (non-magic) plated with Gold from his chest treasure (perhaps was a former "Scrooge"). I am over simplifying.

Anyway, Good Luck!

.

[tesral]

If you really want to get the Gothic Horror vibe ... and I agree with Tesral that D&D is ill suited to the genre ... there is one definite strong undeniable choice.

Basic Roleplaying. (http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=1256)

And besides its a great book.

Gary

My second least favorite system. But I won't refuse to play it. Call of Cluthlu has the right flavor in general, it is easy enough to give that a Gothic overlay. Frankly almost anything but D&D (Or other High Fantasy game) Chill, if you can find a copy. GURPS would certainly allow you to build the right flavor.

The basic system isn't the problem you can do Gothic Horror d20 style. It is the balance between monsters and PCs.

Eliminate Paladins right off the bat. Wizards and Clerics have to go as well. Healing surges make it way too easy. Access to any magic has to be curbed to the extreme, items or spells. By the time you are done making Forry (or any edition of D&D) suitable to Gothic Horror there isn't much system left.

[Webhead]

For horror to really work, the characters need to feel alone and vulnerable. They can't have anyone that they can go to for help (or else those that they do go to are discovered to be either incompetent, corrupted or dead) and they can't feel as though they can stand toe-to-toe with their enemies and come away unscathed. Generally, the ominous threat that they face should be considerably more powerful than they are, meaning that they need more than muscle and a stroke of luck to be victorious (assuming total victory is even possible). The true heroism in horror stems from the concept that the characters are prepared to risk everything in order to put an end to whatever is happening, even accepting their own inferiority in the face of it. And that risk needs to feel real. Without risk, it feels like "just another job".

In horror, even if the heroes survive and manage to stop the "big bad", they have to carry scars. Characters in horror are never quite the same at the end of the story as at the beginning. They've lost something, perhaps innocence or optimism, perhaps determination or faith, perhaps a friend or loved one or even a profound spiritual or psychological belief. The point is, when the job is done, the heroes in horror have paid a high price...one that they will probably live with for the rest of their lives.

My 2 cents.

[tesral]

In horror, even if the heroes survive and manage to stop the "big bad", they have to carry scars. [snip] The point is, when the job is done, the heroes in horror have paid a high price...one that they will probably live with for the rest of their lives.

And that makes a campaign of it difficult. How many scars can you canny before you fall apart?

[ronpyatt]

But if someone really wanted to run it with 4eD&D anyway, might there be a circumstance in which it could be done?

In horror, starting strong is where heroes begin fresh in the morning, but eventually loose ground bit by bit only to find that their last hope was used up this morning. Then hope is harder to come by. Monsters will often want the party to live so that they may feed on them again later.

Perhaps the ability to slow progression of 4e characters can be turned to this effect by reflecting the difficulties of this environment.
1) After an extended rest recover only half your healing surges due to the restlessness of the atmosphere.
2) Extended rests take 2 hours longer due to the draining atmosphere.
3) Milestones require 4 encounters (if any milestones are allowed) due to the feeling of helplessness that tries to swallow you.
4) You start with one less action point after an extended rest (if action points are used) due to the hopelessness overwhelming your drive.
5) At the end of an encounter where you were Bloodied sometime during the encounter, make a save or loose a healing surge due to the environment sapping your strength.
6) Characters cannot level up while in the Ravenloft sphere of influence.

Watch as the Cleric and Paladin go a little insane with their inability to keep up with healing and drain, where just hours ago they felt they could beat this place.

[DMMike]

If you guys aren't too 4E hardcore, open up 3E's Heroes of Horror. Fantastic book. Loaded with ideas, and a taint system that might (or might not) convert to 4E.

I'm disagreeing with Dimthar. The players should be scared. Saying that only the characters should be scared is passing up an opportunity for some great and memorable sessions. Now creating a scary atmosphere isn't easy or possible for all groups. But a little nervousness isn't too much to ask.

[Webhead]

And that makes a campaign of it difficult. How many scars can you canny before you fall apart?

Very true. Most horror campaigns have more limited longevity and that's probably as it should be. Take Call of Cthulhu. If a character is still alive and (mostly) sane after 4 or 5 adventures, he's either deep in denial, lives in a box, or has a player who is very, very lucky with dice. An average CoC adventure ends with most of the party seeking some psychiatric help or very good sleeping pills to cope with their unraveling sense of reality.

But that's part of the fun of horror. The light that shines brightest shines half as long. CoC is full of its own kinds of heroes...heroes who are completely outmatched but who refuse to succumb to despair.

[tesral]

Is that going to engender horror or player frustration? Take backs at least for my part are annoying.

I'll stick by my statement. Gothic Horror with a Heroic Fantasy system is starting with a severe handicap.

[Webhead]

Is that going to engender horror or player frustration? Take backs at least for my part are annoying.

I'm a little hazy...please elaborate...

I'll stick by my statement. Gothic Horror with a Heroic Fantasy system is starting with a severe handicap.

Agreed. Horror, as delicate as it is, is best when the system supports it.

[tesral]

I'm a little hazy...please elaborate...

Agreed. Horror, as delicate as it is, is best when the system supports it.

Truncating the D&D system to get the proper helpless feel would frustrate players of the characters created with the usual Heroic Fantasy in mind.

"OK, it's Horror so you don't get you use even half the cool powers you have."

Better I think to start with a system that supports the necessary tropes than to hack a system that does not support them. Any time you find yourself taking a figurative machete to the system to get the feel right, that is telling you something. It's telling you to stop, and start with something else. You can make a Sport Utility out of a Sports Car, all the parts are present, you just need to rip it apart and totally rebuild it. There is nothing wrong with a sports car, but it is lousy for off road work. D&D has limits. It is created with a certain type of gaming feel in mind and it does that best. Horror is not the gaming feel it is created for.

I've played in Ravenloft games and run them. D&D is a bad fit for Horror.

And I agree that you need to instill unease in the player. In system fear does not translate to a real Horror experience. Horror is work. It's theater, it is mood and setting. Horror is the one time I would dress the part as the DM.

[Webhead]

Truncating the D&D system to get the proper helpless feel would frustrate players of the characters created with the usual Heroic Fantasy in mind.

"OK, it's Horror so you don't get you use even half the cool powers you have."

Better I think to start with a system that supports the necessary tropes than to hack a system that does not support them. Any time you find yourself taking a figurative machete to the system to get the feel right, that is telling you something. It's telling you to stop, and start with something else. You can make a Sport Utility out of a Sports Car, all the parts are present, you just need to rip it apart and totally rebuild it. There is nothing wrong with a sports car, but it is lousy for off road work. D&D has limits. It is created with a certain type of gaming feel in mind and it does that best. Horror is not the gaming feel it is created for.

Oh, okay. I totally agree.

I've played in Ravenloft games and run them. D&D is a bad fit for Horror.

I've never actually run or played in the Ravenloft campaign setting. I've only ever had the original I6 module. But yeah, I don't see D&D being terribly effective at enforcing "horror". More like, "creepy action-adventure" which is a totally different beast.

[ronpyatt]

Although, I would not recommend reducing their powers, other nerfing is recommended in the core 4e rules for just these types of circumstances. Besides that, limiting to one level is an ideal way of playing horror in other game systems that don't use levels. I might even make the Cleric and Paladin powers do a little extra - hope in small packages, ya know. Hacking the system is what some of us like to do, and the DMG gives guidelines on how to do it. So, not really seeing a problem there.

If the players know it's a horror game, and they know that house rules are designed to reflect the horror elements of the setting, they will never ever ever in a million thousand years get frustrated. If they do, then the game or setting will end for them, right? I understand that some people have played D&D horror and didn't like it or could see that it didn't work, but we're talking 4e now. I say go for it, and give it a chance to fail or succeed. I'd like to see the results. In fact, since I've done this on a small scale with 4e, I may even do this on a major quest with my group.

Tamerath, good luck with Ravenloft!
Thanks everyone. Your experiences with D&D horror are insightful and give me a challenge to work with!

[Tamerath]

Although, I would not recommend reducing their powers, other nerfing is recommended in the core 4e rules for just these types of circumstances. Besides that, limiting to one level is an ideal way of playing horror in other game systems that don't use levels. I might even make the Cleric and Paladin powers do a little extra - hope in small packages, ya know. Hacking the system is what some of us like to do, and the DMG gives guidelines on how to do it. So, not really seeing a problem there.

If the players know it's a horror game, and they know that house rules are designed to reflect the horror elements of the setting, they will never ever ever in a million thousand years get frustrated. If they do, then the game or setting will end for them, right? I understand that some people have played D&D horror and didn't like it or could see that it didn't work, but we're talking 4e now. I say go for it, and give it a chance to fail or succeed. I'd like to see the results. In fact, since I've done this on a small scale with 4e, I may even do this on a major quest with my group.

Tamerath, good luck with Ravenloft!
Thanks everyone. Your experiences with D&D horror are insightful and give me a challenge to work with!

First off I'd like to thank everyone for their opinions thus far. I laugh to myself because had this been started on another board I could just see the heated remarks that would rage forth from it. Everyone has really given me a lot of good ideas.

I know a lot of people will dissagree with me. I know Ravenloft has some hardcore fans out there (I'm one of them), but getting away from D&D or even the d20 system is too far away from my goal. I'm going to run it. I don't doubt for a moment my ability to tell a good story OR the horror part (as I've done this without the Ravenloft tagline in my Twilight Realm setting homebrew). Now as for it's original conception I'm going to have to break tradition...I'm not going to do low magic, take out any classes, take away feats or any of that. My aim is to keep 4th Edition as is...and add a Horror element to it. I think I'm definately considering adding some of ronpyatt's suggestions to the mix as well as DMMike's suggestion of looking into the Heroes of Horror book for 3.5 (already owed that sucker and now I'm going to have the chance to put it to good use). Tesral even really gave me a good idea of researching the "feel" of the campaign a bit more. So maybe to some of you it's not Ravenloft...and I can understand your sentiment. To me though, Ravenloft was about feeling...and I think my group will be just fine with it. Every one of them I've seen thus far have zero problems roleplaying and adding their own part and flavor to the story. (Another part of why I think Ravenloft will go over well). Thanks for wishing me good luck ronpyatt! I wish you good luck with your ideas as well! :)

Here's something that's really cool with this community. Inspiration. You all inspire me and I hope, in some small way, that I inspire you. You all have a wonderful night.

[Thoth-Amon]

First off I'd like to thank everyone for their opinions thus far. I laugh to myself because had this been started on another board I could just see the heated remarks that would rage forth from it. Everyone has really given me a lot of good ideas.

I know a lot of people will dissagree with me. I know Ravenloft has some hardcore fans out there (I'm one of them), but getting away from D&D or even the d20 system is too far away from my goal. I'm going to run it. I don't doubt for a moment my ability to tell a good story OR the horror part (as I've done this without the Ravenloft tagline in my Twilight Realm setting homebrew). Now as for it's original conception I'm going to have to break tradition...I'm not going to do low magic, take out any classes, take away feats or any of that. My aim is to keep 4th Edition as is...and add a Horror element to it. I think I'm definately considering adding some of ronpyatt's suggestions to the mix as well as DMMike's suggestion of looking into the Heroes of Horror book for 3.5 (already owed that sucker and now I'm going to have the chance to put it to good use). Tesral even really gave me a good idea of researching the "feel" of the campaign a bit more. So maybe to some of you it's not Ravenloft...and I can understand your sentiment. To me though, Ravenloft was about feeling...and I think my group will be just fine with it. Every one of them I've seen thus far have zero problems roleplaying and adding their own part and flavor to the story. (Another part of why I think Ravenloft will go over well). Thanks for wishing me good luck ronpyatt! I wish you good luck with your ideas as well! :)

Here's something that's really cool with this community. Inspiration. You all inspire me and I hope, in some small way, that I inspire you. You all have a wonderful night.
It does not matter how you prepare, Tamerath, for the Great Thoth-Amon will always prevail.

Thoth-Amon

[Webhead]

I hope my latter comments were not construed as me trying to discourage you from running your horror game with 4e. Far from it, I wish you the best of luck in really pulling your players in. I was just sharing some of my insights on "horror" which is one of my favorite RPG genres when it's done right, for all the reasons I mentioned.

I have a player who outright refuses to play Call of Cthulhu, which is tragic because that is one of those games that I'm always interested in.

[Thoth-Amon]

I've played in a previous campaign with Tamerath and can tell you that if anyone can pull it off, he can. In fact, his upcoming Ravenloft campaign has so many interested players, he had to create a waiting list.

I'll ask him to post updates on this site to share experiences with said campaign. All this adventuring goodness begins first Saturday in October. Cant wait.

Thoth-Amon

[Webhead]

I've played in a previous campaign with Tamerath and can tell you that if anyone can pull it off, he can. In fact, his upcoming Ravenloft campaign has so many interested players, he had to create a waiting list.

I'll ask him to post updates on this site to share experiences with said campaign. All this adventuring goodness begins first Saturday in October. Cant wait.

Thoth-Amon

Very cool. Keep us updated...I'd like to hear how it goes. Horror can be a lot of fun.

[Tamerath]

I hope my latter comments were not construed as me trying to discourage you from running your horror game with 4e. Far from it, I wish you the best of luck in really pulling your players in. I was just sharing some of my insights on "horror" which is one of my favorite RPG genres when it's done right, for all the reasons I mentioned.

I have a player who outright refuses to play Call of Cthulhu, which is tragic because that is one of those games that I'm always interested in.

Oh sincerely guys, I've never taken constructive comments posted here as "You can't do this." or discouraging at all. Sincerely, a grand majority of this site does nothing but try to help each other (which is why I love posting here). As I said in my last post...you guys do the complete opposite from discouragement...you inspire me. I have till October to lay down some incredible foundation work, try to work out all the bugs of the system, and write (or rewrite in some cases) some really incredible adventures. I can't wait. And Yes, for sure, I'll definately post a campaign journal on here for the good or bad. In part to help other DMs like me.

[DMMike]

October...starting on Halloween, by any chance? I'm aching for you, Tamerath, to ask how to make scary encounters (which doesn't fall under the thread title). Probably because I just took a psychology class, and I'm itching to screw with people's heads. Plus, I suspect I'll learn some awesome ideas from the community too.

[Tamerath]

October...starting on Halloween, by any chance? I'm aching for you, Tamerath, to ask how to make scary encounters (which doesn't fall under the thread title). Probably because I just took a psychology class, and I'm itching to screw with people's heads. Plus, I suspect I'll learn some awesome ideas from the community too.

Nah, I want the whole month of October to run my game :) As for the scary encounters...wow..there's been so many I've created over the years. I think that'd definately be a good thread to start in October as well. Just for a teaser though I'll post one of my old encounters for you.

I was running "The Apocalypse Stone" adventure for the 2nd Edition campaign ender (just prior to when they released 3rd Edition). So one part of the module, if I remember correctly, said that because of the pc's actions it caused a demon to be stuck on the prime material plane...and he's pissed off. So the pc's return home for a break in the adventure...they drink some ale, eat great food, hang out with their families...and then the Demon strikes (actually he strikes before that...as all this is an illusion). The food and drink is blood and gore...the townsfolk are dead, and their families...well Their families were murdered, stitched together, and sent after them as flesh golems. Now keep in mind, flesh golems in 2nd Edition were not a challenge at all to a party of level 19+ pc's....the Fear here...is them fighting their loved ones..and knowing they couldn't do anything to save them (because as oppossed to a "Your loved one is in dire peril...you better race to save them)...this senario...they are dead, animated, and have only one desire...Kill you. You should have seen my PC's. It was definately one for the record books.

NOW DISCLAIMER: I'd say any group running a horror game should talk to their group prior...and get their views on it. There's a line you don't want to cross and you don't want to blunder over that line as a DM and make it unfun for everyone at the table. My players are pretty open minded so they didn't have a problem with this encounter.

[Webhead]

I was running "The Apocalypse Stone" adventure for the 2nd Edition campaign ender...

Just out of curiousity, how was "The Apocalypse Stone" overall in quality and fun factor? I ask because I have the opportunity to buy it cheap and have been considering it, but I'd like to know what other people's opinion of it was before I do. I may like to run it at some point and wonder if it would be worth the money.

[Tamerath]

Webhead...it was great. I totally recommend it for a campaign ender (that's what it is). There's a disclaimer at the beginning of the adventure that says, "This adventure will destroy your world" and although it does give some suggestions for different endings...it really does work best with the one they suggest. I, personally, went over it a full two months before running it and added a lot more...there's places where you can "take a break" from the main story and run your own adventures (as not to raise suspicion) and that's exactly what I did...further pc's story goals, get a level or two...I'd say it's a great piece of writing and 2nd edition campaigns would benefit from it. :) I've also heard decent reviews from the "DIE! Vecna DIE!" module. You'd love it my friend :)

[Webhead]

Webhead...it was great. I totally recommend it for a campaign ender (that's what it is). There's a disclaimer at the beginning of the adventure that says, "This adventure will destroy your world" and although it does give some suggestions for different endings...it really does work best with the one they suggest. I, personally, went over it a full two months before running it and added a lot more...there's places where you can "take a break" from the main story and run your own adventures (as not to raise suspicion) and that's exactly what I did...further pc's story goals, get a level or two...I'd say it's a great piece of writing and 2nd edition campaigns would benefit from it. :) I've also heard decent reviews from the "DIE! Vecna DIE!" module. You'd love it my friend :)

Very cool. I may pick it up then. I've also heard good things about "DIE! Vecna DIE!" and I have always wanted to get my hands on "Reverse Dungeon". Now that one sounds cool!