PDA

View Full Version : "I Hate 4e/WotC" Posts



Farcaster
06-29-2008, 03:54 PM
Guys, we get it. You don't like 4th Edition. You are angry at Wizards over it. You have posted, in many places mind you, that you will never buy these books, or play a game using them...That noted, can you step back a little bit and get out of the threads that aren't angry with Wizards?...Personally I'd appreciate it and respect ya more if you could contain yourselves a bit and let some of us just be happy with the new system.

I agree wholeheartedly with what Grimwell is saying. Far be it from me from preventing people from expressing their opinions about the new edition whether they be positive or negative. P&PG is not associated with or beholden to Wizards of the Coast after all. However, I am tired of seeing every thread on 4th edition derailed with "I don't like it. I won't buy it. And here's another reason I hate it ..."

There are threads that have been started that are explicitly for impressions and thoughts on the new edition. Those are the place for posting feedback on how you feel about 4th edition. Other threads that have been started to talk about elements of 4th edition, such as what house rules people may be using, questions about 4th edition mechanics, discussions about races and classes -- well, we just don't need to hear about how you hate 4e on those. That isn't the topic of the thread.

So, please, if you are one of the folk that has been trying to change the topic on every thread to a WotC/4e hate-fest or if you are one of these ones that just has to make sure that every 4e thread regardless of what it is about has at least one post from you that says you hate it -- KNOCK IT OFF ALREADY! Okay?

If not, then don't be surprised when your off topic posts get moved to a more appropriate thread...

Talmek
06-30-2008, 08:52 PM
You know, Farcaster goes to all this trouble...makes a thread just so everyone can complain...STICKY'S it for said complainers' ease of access...even starts off the thread with a BANG to get the ball rolling...

And NO ONE who had all this venom previously has anything to say now. Honestly, what happened? Did the thread arrive just a moment too late, after everyone got it out of their system?

By the way, I am one of those "complainers".

agoraderek
06-30-2008, 09:58 PM
You know, Farcaster goes to all this trouble...makes a thread just so everyone can complain...STICKY'S it for said complainers' ease of access...even starts off the thread with a BANG to get the ball rolling...

And NO ONE who had all this venom previously has anything to say now. Honestly, what happened? Did the thread arrive just a moment too late, after everyone got it out of their system?

By the way, I am one of those "complainers".

dude, there are a few threads for general opinion on 4e, and there are two threads for capping on WotC and 4e. "4E and corporate greed" and "whats wrong with 4e?" (the latter started by me, btw :cool:).

Farcaster is saying, in this sticky, that we who do not care for 4e should, forthwith, refrain from hijacking threads discussing game mechanics, campaign ideas, classes, fluff, the books, whatever, or the post will be moved to one of the aforementioned threads (which i think is nice of him, he could hand out demerits or something).

he didnt start this thread to be the place to DO the dissing of 4e.

having said that, yeah, im not too fond of it either, but not from a mechanics POV, but from a compatablility POV...

starfalconkd
07-02-2008, 07:36 AM
Well the thread is here, we should probably add to it.
4th Edition sucks!
Now let's add some reasons.
1. The entire edition is one big #&$@ you to the loyal gaming community of old. It is merely designed to attract new players, particularly people who play WoW and other such games.

Next.

Valdar
07-02-2008, 10:13 AM
The entire edition is one big #&$@ you to the loyal gaming community of old. It is merely designed to attract new players, particularly people who play WoW and other such games.


Whew- for a minute there I thought you were going to say something that's been discussed to death on every gaming forum for the last year. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_nauseam)

I'm glad you took the time to come up with something original instead.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion)

Maelstrom
07-02-2008, 10:33 AM
It is merely designed to attract new players

Yeah, no kidding! Would hate to have new players! Leave us D&D players alone to diminish in number in peace!

Talmek
07-02-2008, 06:23 PM
Whew- for a minute there I thought you were going to say something that's been discussed to death on every gaming forum for the last year. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_nauseam)

I'm glad you took the time to come up with something original instead.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion)

This is one of the most HILARIOUS responses I have seen on these forums. Just so there's no confusion, I'm not being sarcastic in the least.

Out of curiousity I clicked the links, and was pleasantly surprised.

Not bad! I still don't agree with it, I have accepted the things that I cannot change, and I welcome any new players that may join the hobby from ANY EDITION, not just mine.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
07-03-2008, 01:37 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with what Grimwell is saying. Far be it from me from preventing people from expressing their opinions about the new edition whether they be positive or negative. P&PG is not associated with or beholden to Wizards of the Coast after all. However, I am tired of seeing every thread on 4th edition derailed with "I don't like it. I won't buy it. And here's another reason I hate it ..."

There are threads that have been started that are explicitly for impressions and thoughts on the new edition. Those are the place for posting feedback on how you feel about 4th edition. Other threads that have been started to talk about elements of 4th edition, such as what house rules people may be using, questions about 4th edition mechanics, discussions about races and classes -- well, we just don't need to hear about how you hate 4e on those. That isn't the topic of the thread.

So, please, if you are one of the folk that has been trying to change the topic on every thread to a WotC/4e hate-fest or if you are one of these ones that just has to make sure that every 4e thread regardless of what it is about has at least one post from you that says you hate it -- KNOCK IT OFF ALREADY! Okay?

If not, then don't be surprised when your off topic posts get moved to a more appropriate thread...
I never understood the complaining. Ive heard complaints with every edition and it wont change even when 5th comes out. I've played every edition and enjoyed them all. I've also played about 15 other rpgs and even heard complaints with the new editions of those games as well. Gimme a break already. Try them all and play what you like. Because in the end... no matter how much you hate this-n-that, others do like it and that's what makes it a success. Yep, i said it... seems that 4.0 was a hit, and i wonder if thats whats killing the complainers the most.

Thoth-Amon

starfalconkd
07-03-2008, 06:18 AM
Whew- for a minute there I thought you were going to say something that's been discussed to death on every gaming forum for the last year. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_nauseam)

I'm glad you took the time to come up with something original instead.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion)

Heh. Cute.
My thoughts were to make a list summing up our grievances.

boulet
07-03-2008, 07:16 AM
There's a template (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1046228) for most confrontational 4e threads, in case you can't remember how it has been going for a few weeks now :)

Maelstrom
07-03-2008, 07:23 AM
There's a template (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1046228) for most confrontational 4e threads, in case you can't remember how it has been going for a few weeks now :)

Oh, that is just great. Highly relevent. :biggrin:

Amazing Ronaldo
07-05-2008, 09:29 AM
I never understood the complaining. Ive heard complaints with every edition and it wont change even when 5th comes out. I've played every edition and enjoyed them all. I've also played about 15 other rpgs and even heard complaints with the new editions of those games as well. Gimme a break already. Try them all and play what you like. Because in the end... no matter how much you hate this-n-that, others do like it and that's what makes it a success. Yep, i said it... seems that 4.0 was a hit, and i wonder if thats whats killing the complainers the most.

Thoth-Amon

Change of any kind is difficult for some. We as humans tend toward fighting change and not look at the change objectively. As we get used to that change we tend to see it more objectively and for the most part accept it finally. As far as why complaining has died down? Well I think many of the complainers have taken a step back and looked at the system with a more objective eye. Or they just realize there is nothing they can say to change things other than not buy it.

Now me, I am one who will not buy or play 4E just because I don't like what I have read about the new system and not because it is different. I welcomed 3E with great anticipation, and couldn't wait to see 4E. But alas as I read the threads it wasn't to my liking. Oh well they don't make the game for us old timers anymore lol. They are making it for the kids. I will stick to 3E and enjoy playing it. Oh and this is my first ever post anywhere saying my opinion of the new system lol.

I did feel like the anti-4E people on other boards were a little over the top hijacking threads and do agree with the original sentiments of this post. Start a thread to complain but let those who like and want to talk about 4E enjoy their experience and stay out of those threads unless you plan on contributing something useful!!

-R (old bastard D&D player) :peace:

boulet
07-08-2008, 03:48 PM
I've been keeping an eye on D&D related threads, part because I like to crack a joke here and there, part because I like to steal ideas wherever they come from, even from games I don't care for. D&D sub forums are the most active too, so if I ignore them, it gets a little quiet here :)

Anyway, I completely understand the original message of Farcaster, Grimwell and a few others, asking for controversial posting to leave a breathing space for members who want to discuss constructively about 4e, exchange experience, ask and answer actual play questions. 100% legitimate expectation by me. Except in the process the zen was a bit wrinkled. And the communication got a bit messed up too. From an initial message intended to be "controversial posts go this way" it ended being perceived as "troublemakers go to purgatory". Now I'm witnessing a partial splitting of the community between the pro and anti 4e, and it's just sad. I'm hoping that there are no hidden agenda behind the attitudes of both groups. And I hope even more that the courtesy and good mood which has been praised by many members, especially people fleeing other forums, isn't going to disappear.

I hate 4e. Not because of what it represents, not because of lizard boobs, gnomes, WoW, multiclassing or the sacred legacy of Saint Gygax... But because of what it's doing to PnPG. If only we could all have a beer together and sort this out...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
07-08-2008, 04:01 PM
I've been keeping an eye on D&D related threads, part because I like to crack a joke here and there, part because I like to steal ideas wherever they come from, even from games I don't care for. D&D sub forums are the most active too, so if I ignore them, it gets a little quiet here :)

Anyway, I completely understand the original message of Farcaster, Grimwell and a few others, asking for controversial posting to leave a breathing space for members who want to discuss constructively about 4e, exchange experience, ask and answer actual play questions. 100% legitimate expectation by me. Except in the process the zen was a bit wrinkled. And the communication got a bit messed up too. From an initial message intended to be "controversial posts go this way" it ended being perceived as "troublemakers go to purgatory". Now I'm witnessing a partial splitting of the community between the pro and anti 4e, and it's just sad. I'm hoping that there are no hidden agenda behind the attitudes of both groups. And I hope even more that the courtesy and good mood which has been praised by many members, especially people fleeing other forums, isn't going to disappear.

I hate 4e. Not because of what it represents, not because of lizard boobs, gnomes, WoW, multiclassing or the sacred legacy of Saint Gygax... But because of what it's doing to PnPG. If only we could all have a beer together and sort this out...
Saint Gygax, I like it.

Thoth-Amon

Greylond
07-08-2008, 11:53 PM
I think that it is extremely interesting, not to mention ironic, to read posts all over the internet now about the switch to "4e" that read just like those of us who didn't want to switch to "3e". Personally, WOTC left me behind with 3.x. It was no longer D&D to me so I stopped caring about what they did to it. It still does irk me that there is a game with the Label "D&D" when it isn't anything like what came before but I've moved on now. I either play 1st/2nd Edition or(mostly) I play Hackmaster since that is closer to AD&D than anthing that has come out of WOTC in the last 8 years or so...

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
07-09-2008, 02:17 AM
I think that it is extremely interesting, not to mention ironic, to read posts all over the internet now about the switch to "4e" that read just like those of us who didn't want to switch to "3e". Personally, WOTC left me behind with 3.x. It was no longer D&D to me so I stopped caring about what they did to it. It still does irk me that there is a game with the Label "D&D" when it isn't anything like what came before but I've moved on now. I either play 1st/2nd Edition or(mostly) I play Hackmaster since that is closer to AD&D than anthing that has come out of WOTC in the last 8 years or so...
I havent admitted it before but i will do so now. First, i would agree with Greylond in that, for me, every edition after 1st, ive found myself losing interest. Yes, i play all the editions, but in truth, give me 1st edition or Hackmaster. I would have been happy if there were no other upgrades. So for me, i really dont see what all the fuss is about. I mean, either you like it or you dont and either youll play it or you wont. Why get upset for no one is holding a gun to your head telling you to play the newest edtion. Now why do i play all the editions if i dont care too much for them? My answer, the comaraderie with friends. In the end, isnt that why we all play?

Hey Greylong, hope you didnt mind me jumping on your bandwagon for i found your response to be both succinct and to the point?

Thoth-Amon

Greylond
07-09-2008, 06:27 AM
Nope, don't mind at all. :)

The best line I've ever found about it was a post(by somebody else) over at the Kenzer&Co boards(I made it my sig line over there);


(Comment about D&D 4e)I have to ask myself, am I just buying a name here? If I fell in love with a gal named Wanda ten years ago, does that mean that every new Wanda that comes along is going to be just as groovy?

I like the old Wanda, This new Wanda looks like high maintenance.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
07-09-2008, 09:12 AM
Nope, don't mind at all. :)

The best line I've ever found about it was a post(by somebody else) over at the Kenzer&Co boards(I made it my sig line over there);
That's great. I'll have to remember that one.

Thoth-Amon

Farcaster
07-09-2008, 10:14 AM
I had a fish named Wanda once ...

Amazing Ronaldo
07-09-2008, 11:46 AM
I think that it is extremely interesting, not to mention ironic, to read posts all over the internet now about the switch to "4e" that read just like those of us who didn't want to switch to "3e". Personally, WOTC left me behind with 3.x. It was no longer D&D to me so I stopped caring about what they did to it. It still does irk me that there is a game with the Label "D&D" when it isn't anything like what came before but I've moved on now. I either play 1st/2nd Edition or(mostly) I play Hackmaster since that is closer to AD&D than anthing that has come out of WOTC in the last 8 years or so...

It is kind of interesting to see the same vociferous posts regarding 4E as was seen in previous version changes. I don't know if it is the same people complaining or different people. There will always be a segment of the population that will resist change because change scares them.

I will say I disagree that 3E was not D&D or anything like what came before. If you played 2nd Ed you would remember the complete books with the various class variants (I forget what they had called them) and also the non-weapon proficiencies? Well those became Prestige Classes and the skills and feats of 3E. The core classes of fighter, cleric, mage, and rogue all stayed as well as their variants of paladin, ranger, druid, and bard. The spells pretty much stayed the same, though game mechanics changed a little to fit the new game mechanics. The to-hit and AC became a lot easier to figure out, it just went up instead of down. Remember THAC0?? Yuck! 3E was actually what I had seen as the logical evolution based on what many homebrew campaigns I had been in were already doing at the time. Some DMs I knew swore their ideas were stolen by WotC. From what I read, 4E is definitely far from the D&D we grew up with though so I can't argue on that one lol. I look at it this way. D&D was what everyone tried to emulate, CRPGs included. Now it appears D&D is trying to emulate the online CRPGs and is a follower and not a leader.

Just my humble opinion. :)
-R

Grimwell
07-10-2008, 11:05 PM
3E was actually what I had seen as the logical evolution based on what many homebrew campaigns I had been in were already doing at the time. Some DMs I knew swore their ideas were stolen by WotC.

I think you have really hit the nail on the head there, and given me insight into the folks who don't like 4E in a way that I had yet to connect. 3E did feel like a natural progression of the things TSR had been doing to 2nd + all of our home rules that made the kinks in 2nd go away.

Even as someone who's positive on it, 4E does not feel like that progression and incorporation of what I'd done to 3.X so it's more of a shock to the system. Which will generate more vitriol than a soft blow of "Hey we sorta did that anyway, cool!'


I look at it this way. D&D was what everyone tried to emulate, CRPGs included. Now it appears D&D is trying to emulate the online CRPGs and is a follower and not a leader.

That's one I just don't buy into; but perhaps I'm too close to the fire. My company makes CPRPG's and they are far more complex than any PnP RPG I've ever seen... even Rollmaster. ;)

Maybe the surface of 4E appears to be like a CPRG on it's surface, but when you dig beneath the surface of each one 4E is far easier to deal with. TBH I sometimes think it would be good to order a box of 4E books and tell the design teams to emulate the simplicity in it. I don't run the company though. ;)

Tomcat1066
07-11-2008, 04:36 AM
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I wanted to respond anyways. Hope you don't mind ;)


I think you have really hit the nail on the head there, and given me insight into the folks who don't like 4E in a way that I had yet to connect. 3E did feel like a natural progression of the things TSR had been doing to 2nd + all of our home rules that made the kinks in 2nd go away.

Even as someone who's positive on it, 4E does not feel like that progression and incorporation of what I'd done to 3.X so it's more of a shock to the system. Which will generate more vitriol than a soft blow of "Hey we sorta did that anyway, cool!'

You know, I agree. When 3.0 came out, my group all sat down and explored the books together. Sure enough, there were our house rules now in black and white. It made the transition so much easier since we were already doing that, or something very similar (crits were handled differently, but we embraced the 3e version instead).

When we looked at 4th Edition, there is nothing there that embraced what we liked about the game. The game had changed so much that the mechanics, at best, only barely resemble the game we had all played for so long.


That's one I just don't buy into; but perhaps I'm too close to the fire. My company makes CPRPG's and they are far more complex than any PnP RPG I've ever seen... even Rollmaster. ;)

Maybe the surface of 4E appears to be like a CPRG on it's surface, but when you dig beneath the surface of each one 4E is far easier to deal with. TBH I sometimes think it would be good to order a box of 4E books and tell the design teams to emulate the simplicity in it. I don't run the company though. ;)

The complexity you talk about is on in the design and programming, correct? If so, you have to remember that we don't see any of that. We see characters and the world behaving in certain ways, and then we see 4th Edition change things so characters will tend to behave in similar ways, hence the thoughts that 4th Edition is trying to emulate a MMPOG.

Amazing Ronaldo
07-11-2008, 08:40 AM
The complexity you talk about is on in the design and programming, correct? If so, you have to remember that we don't see any of that. We see characters and the world behaving in certain ways, and then we see 4th Edition change things so characters will tend to behave in similar ways, hence the thoughts that 4th Edition is trying to emulate a MMPOG.

What you say about the complexity is what I was going to respond with. Thank you. :)

-R

Tomcat1066
07-11-2008, 08:48 AM
Anytime ;)

Chris House
07-29-2008, 02:35 PM
Ok
I would like to play hackmaster some more, but it gone too!
I have desided to go on to Palladium fantasy its closer to my type of game its crunchy but i can always stright out what i don't like ins small dose, I am not going to buy the DnD 4E BOOKS FOR MANY REASONS !
Money being one-lol
I am spending 5000.00 On adoptions right now so , maybe later.
I agree with most and I UNDERSTAND MOST COMPLAINTS, but people will still buy it and play it because it is DnD 4E , I still own 1e,2e,3.5e,all game progress. it is a shame they didn't play test with actual groups that supported their game. If the Great and powerful Hasbro can not stick to their the ground and listen to their customers then they well lose them. maybe this is what the paying customer wants!
if it's not then they well lose moeny like they did with 3.5!
rpg are unique in the sense they require you to be involved in a community!
if that community feel you did not include them , you well lose them!
then Hasbro well make another MMORPG with the new rules and keep the right to the name and make more moeny of its property with XBOX and other franchise material and there is nothing any one can do other then not buy their product!

with that said lets talk about what is in 4 edition
who is using it and what is your groups generial feedback, what home brew rules are you using?
and where is those pesky Gnomes- by the whay in Paladium Fantasy you can play any race from get go this is now a 20 year old game that has stayed consistent from the very beginning!
support the game companies that support you!
thanks guys
All be well
Wiesail

krownhunter07
07-29-2008, 06:51 PM
lol... this type of thing has happened with every new edition that's come out.

Bothersome and annoying, yes. Does it ruin the game... not so much, but I agree it would be nice if people cut it out.

Chi
08-13-2008, 10:52 PM
Ok I don't care for 4e but people need to drop it, it is getting old.

Oedipussy Rex
08-14-2008, 07:08 PM
Ok I don't care for 4e but people need to drop it, it is getting old.

Well said. People should drop 4e. It is getting old.

Talmek
08-20-2008, 06:31 AM
WotC is the Anti-Christ!

Down with the establishment!

<Tears Clothes Off And Proceeds To Douse Himself In Gasoline>

Anyone got a match?

<Steps down from his soapbox and realizes he's naked, and smells bad>

Okay, I'm done.

amardolem
08-20-2008, 06:50 AM
not to mention the burning sensation on *sensitive* areas...even when not combusting, getting doused in gas is no joke...ouch!


We should just pile all the 4e books up, douse them in gas and have a good ole fashion bookburning....as we've seen that solves alot things

I hear 4e players are devil worshippers, and they don't call their Grandma's on her birthday too.

:p

Ben Rostoker
08-22-2008, 02:43 AM
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/dungons-dragons-4th.php

^---THIS---^

Is why I don't like 4E. I think the above satire of 4E lays it out quite clearly. I just don't like how they've seemingly turned D&D from a Role-Playing Game into... something else entirely.

Idk it just doesn't feel like the game I've heard so much about. 3.5E on the other hand feels exactly what I've always thought D&D has always been about.

Now I understand that many people will like 4E and that's great. I just don't think it is really valid to say that 4E is just like any other expansion to D&D and that to say otherwise is simply to reject change out of fear.

It's just not the same feel.

tesral
08-22-2008, 12:37 PM
We should just pile all the 4e books up, douse them in gas and have a good ole fashion bookburning....as we've seen that solves alot things

Apparently leaving them in a hot car and a little water is enough. :lol:

Farcaster
08-22-2008, 03:40 PM
^---THIS---^

Is why I don't like 4E. I think the above satire of 4E lays it out quite clearly. I just don't like how they've seemingly turned D&D from a Role-Playing Game into... something else entirely.

As someone who has played 4th edition (and every edition between 1st and 4th), I couldn't disagree with this satire more. It is blatantly over the top and I wouldn't call it a representation of a representation of anything actually in the game.

Oedipussy Rex
08-22-2008, 04:20 PM
As someone who has played 4th edition (and every edition between 1st and 4th), I couldn't disagree with this satire more. It is blatantly over the top and I wouldn't call it a representation of a representation of anything actually in the game.

Why the hate? What have Carlos ever done to you?

Webhead
08-23-2008, 08:47 AM
As someone who has played 4th edition (and every edition between 1st and 4th), I couldn't disagree with this satire more. It is blatantly over the top and I wouldn't call it a representation of a representation of anything actually in the game.

Yes, that's somethingawful.com. It's purpose is to be a bit snide and exaggerated.

I could see the same dungeon maps eaily being ported into any edition of D&D. Heck, replace the dragon with a Sith Lord and the treasure chest with a shipment of stolen cargo and you could port it into a Star Wars game. It can be done for sure, but it doesn't mean that's how "normal" players play their games.

I am actually tempted to run some players through those scenarios just for kicks. I think they'd make a great follow-up to the "Orc and the Pie" adventure, which is one of my favorites...:D

Engar
08-23-2008, 12:04 PM
I think one of those adventures is in the back of the 4e DMG as a starter. Did you see the terrain detail?!? I wish my 4e characters had that much depth. Oh well, it is probably the "ideal" situation to strive and not the average game.

Ben Rostoker
08-23-2008, 03:03 PM
Yes, that's somethingawful.com. It's purpose is to be a bit snide and exaggerated.

I could see the same dungeon maps eaily being ported into any edition of D&D. Heck, replace the dragon with a Sith Lord and the treasure chest with a shipment of stolen cargo and you could port it into a Star Wars game. It can be done for sure, but it doesn't mean that's how "normal" players play their games.

I am actually tempted to run some players through those scenarios just for kicks. I think they'd make a great follow-up to the "Orc and the Pie" adventure, which is one of my favorites...:D

If you run it, run it online and let me play. lol My Carlos shall be far superior to the others I assure you. And after that we can play real D&D aka 3.5.

Webhead
08-24-2008, 12:34 AM
If you run it, run it online and let me play. lol My Carlos shall be far superior to the others I assure you. And after that we can play real D&D aka 3.5.

Who said I was gonna run those scenarios with 4e? ;)

...not 3.5 either. 3.X is the cod liver oil of D&D. :puke:

"My karma ran over your dogma."

:D

Ben Rostoker
08-24-2008, 07:02 PM
Who said I was gonna run those scenarios with 4e? ;)

...not 3.5 either. 3.X is the cod liver oil of D&D. :puke:

"My karma ran over your dogma."

:D

Ouch. Do you play D&D Beta or something?

Webhead
08-25-2008, 09:34 AM
Ouch. Do you play D&D Beta or something?

Nah, I'm just being cynical. ;) 3.X isn't the spawn of Satan or anything, but I've just learned that it's problems outweigh its advantages for me. I'll play it if it is the game that my group is playing but, given a choice, it is one of the very last on my list of "games I would like to play".

Mindbomb
09-14-2008, 01:38 PM
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/dungons-dragons-4th.php

^---THIS---^

Is why I don't like 4E. I think the above satire of 4E lays it out quite clearly. I just don't like how they've seemingly turned D&D from a Role-Playing Game into... something else entirely.




Character Creation

Your first step in playing D&D is the creation of your character. Your character is a dwarf named Carlos, an Adventurer. There you go. In keeping with Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition's motto of "streamline, streamline, streamline... actually we could just say streamline once", every player's character will be an Adventurer dwarf named Carlos.
Free from the burden of having to remember several character's names and races, your brain can focus on imagination and adventure more than ever. Replacing the archetypical Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Ranger and Wizard classes with an Adventurer class makes roleplaying even easier, thanks to its complete lack of unique powers, attributes, and skills to keep track of.


Am still reeling from this, can barely type. LMFAO

Webhead
09-14-2008, 02:54 PM
...Am still reeling from this, can barely type. LMFAO

Yeah, it was a pretty funny read, if not precisely constructive. I'm still going to use those adventure maps at some point. :)

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-14-2008, 04:11 PM
Hilarious.

Thoth-Amon

mark42
09-14-2008, 05:09 PM
I suspect that much of the D&D edition change angst is a complaint about the overall state of the world economy. The gaming industry, a niche luxury market, generally thrives only during boom periods of economic growth as seen by the consumer. When the consumer economy tightens, luxury spending decreases. So luxury producers try to find ways to increase revenue. It seems only natural that a company that makes a boat load of cash with collectible card games that have the business model of: "make some, sell them, make more, sell more, retire the old ones so people have to buy the new ones, repeat as needed" would try a similar model with their RPG line.

At least this is what it looks to me. My biggest 4e D&D gripe is that fans and detractors alike just use "4e" when discussing things. I'm just starting to make the shift from 3e to 4e GURPS - it would be nice to see "D&D" when that is the system being discussed.

Webhead
09-14-2008, 05:52 PM
...At least this is what it looks to me. My biggest 4e D&D gripe is that fans and detractors alike just use "4e" when discussing things. I'm just starting to make the shift from 3e to 4e GURPS - it would be nice to see "D&D" when that is the system being discussed.

That's the funny thing about product identity. For example, when you say "The Pill", everybody knows exactly what pill you're talking about. It's not a pill for cancer, AIDS or heart disease, no...it's the birth control pill. :)

Likewise, because D&D is at the center of the hobby and it has recently gone through a hoopla with the lastest "4th Edition", whenever somebody says "4e", it is instantly recognizable what they're talking about...

Vulture
09-14-2008, 06:18 PM
That's the funny thing about product identity. For example, when you say "The Pill", everybody knows exactly what pill you're talking about. It's not a pill for cancer, AIDS or heart disease, no...it's the birth control pill. :)

Likewise, because D&D is at the center of the hobby and it has recently gone through a hoopla with the lastest "4th Edition", whenever somebody says "4e", it is instantly recognizable what they're talking about...

funny because Games Workshop released Warhammer 40,000 5e around the same time that D&D 4e launched

Webhead
09-14-2008, 06:32 PM
funny because Games Workshop released Warhammer 40,000 5e around the same time that D&D 4e launched

Sure, but I doubt that 40K 5e had nearly as much exposure and controversy as D&D 4e.

Which brings me to a related point. When you say "40K", most gamers know what you're referring to. ;)

Chi
09-15-2008, 06:11 PM
Sure, but I doubt that 40K 5e had nearly as much exposure and controversy as D&D 4e.

Which brings me to a related point. When you say "40K", most gamers know what you're referring to. ;)
I don't! What is 40k

mark42
09-15-2008, 07:51 PM
Sure, but I doubt that 40K 5e had nearly as much exposure and controversy as D&D 4e.

Which brings me to a related point. When you say "40K", most gamers know what you're referring to. ;)

"40K" is equivalent to "D&D". Saying 4e, then, could mean anything from the newest GURPS, the newest D&D or a game of Rhino rushing 40K (Warhammer 40,000, a science fiction wargame by Games Workshop).

Chi
09-16-2008, 05:25 PM
Oh ok that makes perfect sence. Now that I know that I feel like one of the cool kids.