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View Full Version : How Many 3.X NEW Books Did You Buy?



Dimthar
06-18-2008, 09:55 PM
One argument is that 4E purpose is to "Move Books".

Let's find out our "Worth" as a customer base.

How many 3.X NEW Books did You buy (Not used ones)?

.

Igbutton
06-18-2008, 10:04 PM
Probably one of the reasons I'm not adverse to 4E. I only ever bought 2. The PHB and Complete Adventurer, cause I was only ever a player and I loved rogues and CA had ninjas so I couldn't really resist, to bad the ninja was so meh.

Dimthar
06-18-2008, 10:09 PM
Well I started counting and Oh! My Goddess!

I bought the 3 Core Books, Arms and Equipment, Psionics, Epic Handbook, Spell Compendium, and 7 Forgotten Realms Books (The only one I regret was City of the Spider Queen).

.

jkfoote
06-18-2008, 10:25 PM
i got them all because one of my favorite things to do is build Cha, Going through the books, picking races and classes and feats and abilities and making a fun guy was part of the reason why i love dnd, Like using the Races of stone, the php, the complete warrior and complete adventure to make a Golieth fighter that uses two weapon fighting with golieth great hammers with the keen feat that makes it 18-20x4 crit. It was just a fun idea. but now with 4 e and all these laid out paths, i just don't see the amount of creativity and fun, and stream lining the rules, have the fun is digging through books trying to convince the GM that your crazy survive or die plan will work.

(Books)
3 core, races of stone, complete psionics, Expanded psionics, savage spieces, spell compendium, magic item compendium, complete mage, complete adventure, complete warrior, PH2. With out actually being home to look at them i thinks thats all.

MooseAlmighty
06-18-2008, 10:39 PM
This poll could probably use a broader band of scales. Just buying the core books for 3.0 and again for 3.5 is six books right away.

Are we counting modules? And third party DnD products like Monte Cook's Malhavoc brand stuff?

I'd say about 50 books including modules for 3.0 and 3.5 combined. The 3 cores bought twice, some additional MMs, a few of the Complete books, lots of Eberron and Realms, lots of modules (I love reading them even if I dont run them), Manual of the Planes... and really got great use out of Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness and Heroes of Horror playing in a very grim campaign. Then maybe 10 or so other publishers books for DnD.

jkfoote
06-18-2008, 10:41 PM
good point, because oriental adventures is a 3.0 book, and i have that, but not the 3.0 cores

Engar
06-18-2008, 10:52 PM
I have four 3.x PHBs alone. 2x 3.0, 2x 3.5. Of course that was not on purpose. One 3.0 was bought for me after I had one and when I first moved to the DFW area I had all my books still in storage and needed a PHB to make a character. So I guess you could say I did not buy one of them (it was purchased on my behalf).

I have a rolling bookshelf for rpg books. Let's just say I am in the last group.

Webhead
06-18-2008, 11:19 PM
Here's the total list of 3.X books that I've owned:

PHB 3.0
DMG 3.0
MM 3.0
Hero Builder's Guide 3.0
Psionics Handbook 3.0
Sword & Fist
Tome & Blood

That's it. It was about a short time after Tome & Blood was released that 3.X began wearing thin with me. T&B, however, is probably one of my favorite D&D sourcebooks to date for any edition.

My other players went pretty hog-wild with 3.0 and 3.5, so I was never inclined to spend my own money on them.

agoraderek
06-18-2008, 11:55 PM
if you count 3rd party stuff, i probably bought over 50 books, all told. pretty much all of the forgotten realms, the three core books (twice, 3.0 AND 3.5), all of the monster books (including a few third party compilations), arms and equipment, the eberron books, no modules, other than dungeon magazine, some of the "scarred lands" stuff, yeah, i've spent some money with WotC. now paizo gets my gaming $, though.

for the record, i had almost everything TSR published for AD&D (a lot of raked leaves and shoveled driveways, that...)

Talmek
06-19-2008, 01:28 AM
Let's see (glances behind him to his GINORMOUS bookshelf of RPG books)

1. PHB, DMG, and MM x2 (Gift Set and Individual Books so my players can look up stuff) = 6
2. MM2 & MM3 = 2
3. Epic Level Handbook (Not technically 3.5 but that's the system I bought/used it for) = 1
4. EPH (Despite the pitchfork and torch mobs against it, I play a lot of Eberron) = 1
5. Total Eberron Campaign Books (Not counting published adventures) = 8
6. Living Greyhawk Gazeteer = 1
7. Forgotten Realms = 2
8. Splatbooks = 1 (I usually make modifications as needed, as do my players)

Total = 22 before published adventures

Wow, I really am a geek. Lucky I got married before she found out! :lol:

EDIT: Now that's only 3.5e WotC publications. I also purchased the PHB, DMG, and MM for 3.0 but I no longer have them. That would round out the collection at 25.

Now for some math...

Ringing that up at an average MSRP of $29.99 as listed on the back of most of my books...

$29.99 x 25 = $749.75
$749.75 + 8.25% Tax (61.85)= $811.60

I made my first purchase in 2004, so we'll go with a total time frame of 48 months...

$811.60 / 48 months = $16.908 (16.91) a month, roughly the same amount as some MMORPGs.

Unfortunately, I have "cancelled my subscription" at the end of 3.5e and will not be purchasing any 4th edition books. After spending almost $1,000 on a single system that I and my players find no problems with, I just can't justify doing it again, even over the course of four years.

jkfoote
06-19-2008, 02:20 AM
Wow, I really am a geek. Lucky I got married before she found out! :lol:


HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHh, That Great!!! HAHAHHAAH

I try to hide it with the girls i date, but then they come to the house and between me my roommate, my other buds that play at the house there are just DND, vampire, wearwolf, GURPS, marvel, BESM books randomy stacked everywhere. Then after that, the seem to stop calling me for some reason?

agoraderek
06-19-2008, 02:43 AM
HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHh, That Great!!! HAHAHHAAH

I try to hide it with the girls i date, but then they come to the house and between me my roommate, my other buds that play at the house there are just DND, vampire, wearwolf, GURPS, marvel, BESM books randomy stacked everywhere. Then after that, the seem to stop calling me for some reason?

wow, my gf specifically WANTED to date a geek after going out with other types of guys...

Talmek
06-19-2008, 03:02 AM
...I try to hide it with the girls i date, but then they come to the house and between me my roommate, my other buds that play at the house there are just DND, vampire, wearwolf, GURPS, marvel, BESM books randomy stacked everywhere...

See? That's the problem. It's all in the presentation! :D
For example: My entire collection of RPGs, fantasy books (I'm talking collector's edition hardbacks here), miniatures, etc. are all on a single large bookcase in my living room. I threw in a couple of old-looking journals that I picked up at a Barnes & Noble for 1$ apiece (use them to chronicle adventures, notes and so on) and made a rather sharp-looking corner near my computer desk.

I've actually had people compliment my layout, that is until they read what's on the multi-colored spines of those D&D books. Then they usually point...then laugh. :(

Although I did buy my wife a T-shirt that said, "I heart Geeks". She got a kick out of it, anyway.

gdmcbride
06-19-2008, 03:16 AM
How many D&D 3.x books do I own?

I won't bore you with a full list, but conservatively I will estimate that I own more than 200 3.x books and OGL products (not counting periodicals).

I certainly didn't buy them all new. In fact, I paid full retail for virtually none of them. Many of them, I bought at great discount (usually online) or received as swag.

Gary

fmitchell
06-19-2008, 04:00 AM
I wish there were a "none of the above", because most of the D&D books I bought were used, including the PHB.

Here's the roster of WotC books:

PHB: Used
MM: Used (with a sticker, even)
Manual of the Planes: new at a steep discount ... and I sold it again
Expanded Psionics Handbook: new but discounted, I think
Lords of Madness: new but discounted, I think
Tome of Magic: Used but like new

I also have about a dozen d20 and OGL books (including True20), and scads of PDFs (including some 1e and 2e scans from WotC).

Most of my purchases I intended to port to other games or read for my own morbid curiosity. The PHB saw actual use, and a lot of OGL and d20 material I was actually considering for a not-D&D-but-close game that I simply gave up on.

ryan973
06-19-2008, 07:53 AM
I have soo many books its silly. I have every forgotten realms book, well lets just say i have everything but about 20 books. and a bunch of third party stuff. Of course my collection is not limited to D&D. But it is definetly my favorite. As for fourth edition, I wont be spending anymore money on wizards unless i take up mini painting again. And of course the gargantuan dragon minis that each guy of my group gets when he has a B-day. Of course there is one thing that fourth has done for me that i kinda like. I can get my 3.5 stuff real cheap on amazon, or e-bay. I better buy quik before the new car smell wears off and people switch back.

Skunkape
06-19-2008, 08:26 AM
I've actually never counted how many books I have. I'll have to try and remember to do that when I get home tonight!

tesral
06-19-2008, 09:32 AM
One argument is that 4E purpose is to "Move Books".

Let's find out our "Worth" as a customer base.

How many 3.X NEW Books did You buy (Not used ones)?

.

Three. The core books, after the Line fiasco I held off any further books until 3.5 I said, lines, no more books. They had lines.

Lizards lost me right there. This after their user base complained the most about the lines.

Supposedly the lines were to prevent copying. Funny thing, but I have a PDF of each of the two version of 3 as well as the SRD. All the lines did is make the book difficult fo read for anyone with less than perfect vision.

Now, had they not made the books so difficult to read, I may have further invested in 3.x books.

Kilrex
06-19-2008, 10:36 AM
I used to have all the 3.0 books except the adventure modules, had to buy them new online cause no local shops had books in English.

I own most of the 3.5 books (missing 4-5 of the later ones as they were crap), bought new but discounted by 10-40% per book. Again no premade adventures. And I own all the Forgotten Realms books except 1 or 2 adventures.

The only 4ed book I plan to buy is the Forgotten Realms setting, but waiting to see if I like the setting post-Spellplague before I use.

But I am buying Pathfinder. Paizo makes great products and I found I like their premade adventures alot.

InfoStorm
06-19-2008, 11:28 AM
I own a pile of the books, and still have a couple I want, just to get the collection complete. I've got ~ 50 books, give or take.

Kilrex
06-19-2008, 08:17 PM
I just got home and my final book count was 81. All but 1 were WotC, Iron Heros. I have some PDFs of other games and misc stuff.

tesral
06-19-2008, 09:49 PM
I just got home and my final book count was 81. All but 1 were WotC, Iron Heros. I have some PDFs of other games and misc stuff.

I don't want to get into total book counts. I might scare myself.

Digital Arcanist
06-19-2008, 10:28 PM
I have almost all of them now. The ones I don't have didn't interest me or contain material that I will never allow in my game so there's no need to have them.

Braeg
06-20-2008, 01:02 AM
I bought more than ten Forgotten Realms books alone. And for the most part, I can still use them as they have a good fluff to crunch ratio.

upidstay
06-20-2008, 05:05 AM
I bought the 3 cores books, was given the Forgotten Realms setting book, somehow inherited the MM2 (no idea where it came from. showed up in my DM's bag one day, and none of my friends are missing a copy. very strange)

I used to buy everything ever published with the letters d and d side by side. Ended up killing alot of trees needlessly, and still got my best ideas from movies, cartoons, books, or just my head.

So far, absolutely no plans to switch to 4e. I'll probably wait until 4.5 comes out. That way I won't get so frickin' mad the way I did when my 3.0 books were now doorstops.

Inquisitor Tremayne
06-20-2008, 02:17 PM
More than 10 and I am still buying books.

mrken
06-20-2008, 03:18 PM
When I did the poll I marked the 5 - 10 range. Then as I read the posts I began to wonder what the exact number is. :( After counting I come up with 13. Those are the books on MY shelf; I'm not counting the books I paid for for my son. He has what I used to call a two foot stack, but it is now more like a three foot stack. I paid for them all but the last three. He has a job now and can start to support his own habit.

kaibrightwing
06-26-2008, 06:47 PM
i own every forgotten realms book for 3.0 and 3.5 and i own all of 1st and 2nd books and box set it took me some time but i have them.

Mead
06-27-2008, 12:05 AM
Lessee, never really counted, good a time as any.. (turns out to be 12 or 13, more than I thought)

3.0 core (3)
3.5 core (3)
Complete Adventurer
FRCG
Underdark
Unapproachable East
Oriental Adventures
Rokugan (tied to OA, but a separate d20 product too.. not sure how to count that one)
Eberron

And Arcana Evolved, which I really wish I could play some day. Might get Iron Heroes some day just for kicks, too.

Xaels Greyshadow
06-27-2008, 05:53 PM
Just passing through. It has been a long while and I thought I might stop by to see what has been going on. I have a long winded diatribe to leave you with.

When WoTC published the Core Rulebooks, they must have forgot that it is clearly stated that a DM is almost to be compared to a God. The books clearly state that you, the player/DM, may at your will, pick and choose to use the rules that suit you and or your players as approved by your DM. If you think that it doesn't work as a mechanic, your free to modify it as you see fit and all parties agree that it's a better rule mechanic. Basically the Core books and any following supplements, are nothing more than suggestions and ideas to be used as seen fit.

From a Dm perspective, I see absolutely nothing wrong with 3.5, because if I, the DM, thought it was broken, I put it out to the players, and we fixed the mechanic to what we all thought it should be with no need what so ever to have to have it "Published" by Wotc. Or created my own "House Rules" which are clearly defined, laid out, and backed by the Core Rulebooks.

That said, I purchased the following books new over a period of about 4 years:

PHB DMG MM MMIII MMII MMIV Basic Game (Box) MMV Players Kit (Box) Magic Item Comp. Ex of Evil Comp Warrior Draconomicon Comp Adventurer Races of Destiny Sandstorm Lords of Madness Frostburn Weapons of Legacy Stormwrack Planar Handbook Libris Mortis Comp Arcane Races of the Wild Rules Comp Elder Evils Heroes of Battle DMGII Book of Exhalted Deeds Comp Divine UA A&E Guide Book of Vile Darkness Heroes of Horror Ghostwalk Magic of Incarnum Spell Compendium Fiend Folio Tome of Magic Comp Psionic Races of the Dragon PHII Fiendish Codex I Tome of Battle Dragon Magic Comp Mage Fiendish Codex II Comp Champion Dungeonscape Comp Scoundrel DM for Dummies D&D for Dummies Races of Stone Castle Ravenloft Manual of the Planes Dieties and Demigods ELPH Eberron Grasp of Emerald Claw Races of Eberron Five Nations Explorers Handbook City of Stormreach Shadows of Last War Sharn Whispers of Vampires Blade Magic of Eberron Voyage of Golden Dragon PG to Eberron Secrets of Xendrik Dragonmarked Faiths of Eberron Secrets of Sarlona Forge of War Dragons of Eberron Eyes of the Lich Queen and Forgotten Realms.

Countless other adventures and mini-adventures. Mini's. Map Books. Numerous other third party HB supplement books.

If I want to play a game that has been converted to something close to a MMORPG and dumed down to suit a target audience that I have absolutely nothing in common with, I guess I'll actually be forced to play a 4E game. Until that time comes, I will be looking for a group of serious gamers that can think freely. Add, subtract, multiply and do simple division in their heads on the fly, and can act their age in any situation.

Thanks for letting me share. :eek:

Webhead
06-27-2008, 07:29 PM
...Until that time comes, I will be looking for a group of serious gamers that can think freely. Add, subtract, multiply and do simple division in their heads on the fly, and can act their age in any situation.

:rolleyes:

tesral
06-27-2008, 08:25 PM
I just ordered a Dracomonicon. Used of course. A promise is a promise.

fmitchell
06-27-2008, 11:28 PM
I will be looking for a group of serious gamers that can think freely. Add, subtract, multiply and do simple division in their heads on the fly, and can act their age in any situation.

To paraphrase tesral, I can subtract, multiply, and do simple division in my head on the fly. I simply choose not to.

... well, OK, I can't. Not if accuracy and timeliness are both goals.

Still, players who can act their age are for the most part independent of the game they play, not whether they play D&D 3.x, D&D 4e, D&D 1e, GURPS, Vampire, or Kobolds Ate My Baby. And some of us who can and do act their age don't see why, after a long work-week, a "serious" game requires a calculator to know how many wooden spears we can craft in a week, or a flowchart to resolve grappling a foe.

As has been said many times before, those who really like 3.x, and have invested a good deal of time in it, can stick with it, especially since Paizo and others have stated their continued support for the system. That doesn't make you better or worse people, or D&D 3.x a better or worse product. That D&D 4e is also apparently friendlier to new players, or those who aren't committed to previous editions, doesn't say anything about its quality either.

So you lot exercise your "freedom of thought" by ignoring the marketing hype ... and I'll exercise mine by giving 4e a test-drive before judging it. Fair enough?

Webhead
06-28-2008, 12:08 AM
...independent of the game they play, not whether they play D&D 3.x, D&D 4e, D&D 1e, GURPS, Vampire, or Kobolds Ate My Baby...

Love KAMB! Dollar-for-dollar, page-for-page the most laughs I've gotten out of any game I've ever played! It was an instant hit with my group and we were rolling on the floor 'till our sides hurt! Can not recommend this game highly enough! :)

See my review if you like:

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/13/13459.phtml

Aidan
06-28-2008, 12:18 AM
The poll is missing a 'none' option.

Webhead
06-28-2008, 12:33 AM
The poll is missing a 'none' option.

And a "nun" option...:drum:

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
06-28-2008, 02:44 AM
I purchased at least 100 new, and many more used. I tried to pick up anything and everything i thought useful and used every one at one time or another.

Thoth-Amon

Mead
06-28-2008, 08:55 AM
I may get on ebay here soon and see how many I can get while still capping my bids at $5.00

ignimbrite
06-29-2008, 11:15 PM
I think I bought almost all he 3.5 books for Eberron and the 'core setting' so that would make 40 ish? and at $35 ish a book = $1400 probably a pile more if you throw in adventures and some of the non-WOTC material. Damned it I'm changing before 5th Edition.

tesral
06-30-2008, 11:46 AM
I think I bought almost all he 3.5 books for Eberron and the 'core setting' so that would make 40 ish? and at $35 ish a book = $1400 probably a pile more if you throw in adventures and some of the non-WOTC material. Damned it I'm changing before 5th Edition.

I'm getting that a lot from the heavily invested. My son has a shelf full of 3.x books and will not switch.

Webhead
06-30-2008, 01:50 PM
I'm getting that a lot from the heavily invested. My son has a shelf full of 3.x books and will not switch.

There's a lot of factors to such decisions, I'm sure. Like myself. I've got boxes of Star Wars D6 books (about 50 supplements) and it has been my hands-down favorite RPG for 13 years. The torch passed to d20 and I took a "over my dead body" attitude, but I eventually picked up the first book out of curiosity. It sucked. I picked up the revised book. It sucked slightly less. I picked up the Saga book. Expected it to suck, but found out it was pretty darn cool. It's quite different from D6 on a cosmetic (rules) level, but it is just as much Star Wars underneath. It does things a bit different than D6 did, but it still does all the same things (and actually, a little bit more). Does it replace Star Wars D6 for me? No. But it doesn't have to, nor do I want it to. I will keep (and play) them both.

It's about curiosity, experimentation and the desire to look at a "bigger picture" to see if you can learn anything from it. Saga taught me a few surprising things and I consider it to be a nice addition to my Star Wars RPG collection (unlike the other d20 versions, which I promptly sold).

agoraderek
06-30-2008, 06:54 PM
There's a lot of factors to such decisions, I'm sure. Like myself. I've got boxes of Star Wars D6 books (about 50 supplements) and it has been my hands-down favorite RPG for 13 years. The torch passed to d20 and I took a "over my dead body" attitude, but I eventually picked up the first book out of curiosity. It sucked. I picked up the revised book. It sucked slightly less. I picked up the Saga book. Expected it to suck, but found out it was pretty darn cool. It's quite different from D6 on a cosmetic (rules) level, but it is just as much Star Wars underneath. It does things a bit different than D6 did, but it still does all the same things (and actually, a little bit more). Does it replace Star Wars D6 for me? No. But it doesn't have to, nor do I want it to. I will keep (and play) them both.

It's about curiosity, experimentation and the desire to look at a "bigger picture" to see if you can learn anything from it. Saga taught me a few surprising things and I consider it to be a nice addition to my Star Wars RPG collection (unlike the other d20 versions, which I promptly sold).

but, you have to admit, a lot of the d6 star wars stuff was still quite useful with saga, no?

Webhead
07-01-2008, 09:37 AM
but, you have to admit, a lot of the d6 star wars stuff was still quite useful with saga, no?

Sure, all the important "fluff" material works just fine, but the rules parts are a toss. But I could make a similar arguement for D&D. Yes, some rules structures changed drastically and you'd have to rebuild NPCs all over again (as much true for Star Wars Saga as for D&D), but there's nothing that says all the previous D&D "ideas" are no longer useful. Granted, because so much of the D&D 3.X books was additional rules (ugh), this hampers 3.X product conversion a great deal, but why are the ideas behind the rules no longer good?

It's virtually all "eyeballing" when it comes to converting D6 to Saga. Especially going from a non-level-based system to a level-based system. There is no real way to convert characters logistically. You just have to use your judgement (which I'm fine with). At least 3e-to-4e conversions have the benefit of levels as a guide. Yes a 5th level Wizard in 3e looks different than a 5th level Wizard in 4e, but a Wizard is still a Wizard and you can still use the levels as a quick ruler for building. In D6-to-Saga, you have no such luxury. All you can do is look at other NPCs and make your best guess.

Force Powers especially are the same in spirit, but a good bit different in application than D6, for example. They are still cool and a lot of fun to use, but many Force powers from D6 were either dropped or combined. I'm sure more will be presented in later sourcebooks (same with D&D) but as it stands right now, there's really only about 20% of the Force powers from D6 available in Saga.

Were I running a D&D 4e game, I've got plenty of game books, modules and issues of Dragon magazine that I could use flawlessly with it because the ideas are still good, even if I have to use different rules to wrap them in.

agoraderek
07-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Sure, all the important "fluff" material works just fine...

yeah, thats what i was referencing.

the "fluff" doesn't translate as well for 4.0 from any previous edition of D&D. they're completely changing FR for their "points of light" concept (which means you cannot just retool and keep going with 4.0 if you want to use 4.0 suppliments for a "canon" campaign), the introduction of three new races (and the omission of two), the introduction of two new classes (and the omission of four) make translating an existing homebrew problematic.

star wars, on the other hand, has to, from a "fluff" veiwpoint, stay consistent. the IP belongs to george lucas, not the gaming company, so they have to follow strict guidelines with the setting to still be within the SW "canon". as the WotC owns the D&D IP, they aren't restricted with what they can do with it.

Webhead
07-01-2008, 04:44 PM
...the "fluff" doesn't translate as well for 4.0 from any previous edition of D&D. they're completely changing FR for their "points of light" concept (which means you cannot just retool and keep going with 4.0 if you want to use 4.0 suppliments for a "canon" campaign)...

Granted, it is sounding like they are rebuilding FR from the ground up. Thus anyone strictly attached to FR "canon" is faced with the challenge of either accepting the new, sticking with the old, or creating their own amalgamation of the two. But then, I'm an "amalgam" GM. I take the ideas that I like (wherever they may come from) and work them into my game as need be. A game world ought to be big enough that not everything is described in the "book" and there is plenty of unknowns left. That's where I as the GM come in. To fill in the gaps with my own ideas.


the introduction of three new races (and the omission of two), the introduction of two new classes (and the omission of four) make translating an existing homebrew problematic.

In this regard, Star Wars Saga faces the same problem. D6 didn't have classes at all, so now characters must be categorized within those defining groups. Then there are the currently available playable species. There were entire books of alien species for D6 that have no current equivalent in Saga. Just like D&D, Saga players have to wait for future releases if they want "official" stats for these creatures. In the meantime, GMs that want to use them can "homebrew" their own species to add to the list as desired.

I had a Ho'Din trader character in D6. There is no direct equivalent in Saga other than to use "Human" as a baseline for species and pick either Scoundrel or Scout as a class based upon what angle I think he should lean toward. It's "eyeballing" as there is no direct comparison, only a "best guess".


star wars, on the other hand, has to, from a "fluff" veiwpoint, stay consistent. the IP belongs to george lucas, not the gaming company, so they have to follow strict guidelines with the setting to still be within the SW "canon". as the WotC owns the D&D IP, they aren't restricted with what they can do with it.

Sure. WotC has more freedom to reshape their own property than to shape a licensed property. But they still have their own creative freedoms. WEG demonstrated quite a bit of this. Interestingly enough, they created a lot of original "game" material that ended up being retroactively accepted as "canon" and incorporated into the setting because Lucasfilm thought they were good ideas.

Of course, what constitutes Star Wars "canon" has kind of shifted over the years. My present understanding is that current "canon" only includes the 6 theatrical films (and probably the upcoming Clone Wars movies). Everything else (novels and all) has been relegated to "Expanded Universe" material which does or doesn't exist at Lucas' whim.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that previous edition "fluff" material can still be adapted to the game by a GM who is so inclined to continue using them. Yes, it may require a lot of effort for some, and the decision to change or not certainly can derive from that. But that's a personal choice of how much/little one is willing to tinker or convert things for your own purposes and how much of "canon" you take as gospel. But then, I also think that a GM should take ownership of his game and adapt and change it to his visions of characters and stories. I don't play Mage: The Ascension by White Wolf's "canon", because quite frankly I'd rather create my own kind of world from the game. I can keep the basic structure of the game without having to follow it to the letter. But that's just me and I realize not everyone is that way.

I still feel like I haven't quite said what I set out to, but that's the dangers of the English language, I guess. Too many words with too little value. Let's try something else:

I don't feel that 4e would stop me in any way from running games with any of the D&D materials I currently have (some Basic D&D, some 1e, some 2e and some 3e). The rules would be different and I may not have "official" stats for everything, but the two (pre-4e and post-4e) are not mutually exclusive in my mind.

Still not satisfied with my words, but I'm tired now, so I'll lay down and await the flames. :flame:

agoraderek
07-01-2008, 05:18 PM
Still not satisfied with my words, but I'm tired now, so I'll lay down and await the flames. :flame:

no flaming here. i guess, in my case, it just comes down to how much time i want to spend retooling, which, in the place i find myself in my life, isn't much.

Webhead
07-01-2008, 08:54 PM
no flaming here. i guess, in my case, it just comes down to how much time i want to spend retooling, which, in the place i find myself in my life, isn't much.

I couldn't agree more, which is why I tend to stay as minimalistic as possible when it comes to giving my campaign and adventure ideas "stats". That way, no matter what individual system I try to plug it into, the legwork is easier on me.

I also like to experiment as well, trying to find new things that tickle my fancy, get me to think in different ways and maybe find an unexpected surprise or two.

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-08-2008, 01:48 PM
I had a Ho'Din trader character in D6. There is no direct equivalent in Saga other than to use "Human" as a baseline for species and pick either Scoundrel or Scout as a class based upon what angle I think he should lean toward. It's "eyeballing" as there is no direct comparison, only a "best guess".

If you can find it there is a d6 to RCR conversion doc floating around out there somewhere. You can take that then convert the RCR to Saga. Its a lot of work but doable. I wouldn't try it with vehicles though!



Of course, what constitutes Star Wars "canon" has kind of shifted over the years. My present understanding is that current "canon" only includes the 6 theatrical films (and probably the upcoming Clone Wars movies). Everything else (novels and all) has been relegated to "Expanded Universe" material which does or doesn't exist at Lucas' whim.

There are currently levels of SW canon as dictated by Lucas/Lucasfilm. Of course the highest are the films and what comes straight from Lucas's mouth.

Then all of the EU gets broken up into its various sources; comics, video games, novels, toys, and everything else.

So in the end, if it has a Star Wars logo on it IS canon because it was at some point approved by Lucasfilm. And oh boy is that a tough one to swallow! But whatever. As a GM I use what I want and discard the rest.

Webhead
07-08-2008, 02:39 PM
So in the end, if it has a Star Wars logo on it IS canon because it was at some point approved by Lucasfilm. And oh boy is that a tough one to swallow! But whatever.

Yeah, I could believe that if this definition of "canon" wasn't under a constant threat of self-implosion by Lucas' constant "re-imagining". In my head, Han still shoots first, Greedo grew up on Nar Shadda not Tatooine and Midichlorians are actually the name of a kind of snack food favored by Aqualish fishermen. Jedi blood test...yeesh! :rant:


As a GM I use what I want and discard the rest.

Yep yep. That's how I tend to regard all "pre-established" game worlds, actually. Gotta do what makes you happy. :)

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-08-2008, 02:53 PM
I could go on and on about Star Wars but...

To get back on topic, now that we have seen that over 50% of the folks here have bought 10+ books, I would like to ask how relevant this is?

Since you have paid full price for 10+ D&D books, does it stop you from buying other RPG books? Why?

Why does the amount of money you spent on a particular game system prevent you from buying more books or revisions of that game system?

I am still struggling with this concept because it is not how I approach RPGs. I am still buying 3.5 books, 3.0 books, and any previous editions i can find as well as almost every other RPG I can get my hands on. Maybe I am just a collector but the only time cost factors into my decision process is if I am broke.

I have my 4e books and still have yet to play a game AND our group just started a new 3.5 campaign so the likely hood of us switching is, never. Yet I do not regret buying my 4e books at all.

Sorry, just kind of rambling there.

Mead
07-08-2008, 03:21 PM
I just bought Deadlands Hell on Earth and the Wasted West sourcebook, to go along with the 15 or so DL books I already have. They're on the shelf below the 20 or so Torg books I have. And I'll probably never get a chance to play either of those systems ever again. But that's not going to stop me from buying 4e or 3e or Cyberpapacy (the only Torg book I lack) or whatever else, if the price is right and the content is good enough.

Current inventory levels have precious little to do with what other game systems I buy, or even whether or not I'll be using the books at all. :)

Webhead
07-08-2008, 03:48 PM
There's a lot of considerations about RPG book buying, I guess.

For me and 3.X, it was basically about value. I started to get a little weary of the game system. I had plenty of friends who were buying up the supplements like nobody's business and the only times I was gonna be playing D&D was with them. So, it didn't really make too much sense for me to continue buying the books when I knew I could have access to them when needed for free. But then, I'm a frugal person (to the point that I will almost never pay cover price for a book) so I like to spend my money as efficiently as possible.

But I'm also a coke-fiend when it comes to RPGs. As is evidenced by the "How many RPGs do you own" thread that I started, I have many, many, many game books in my collection. For those games, it about creative desire and curiosity. If I discover something that sounds really cool, and I keep myself convinced of its awesomeness long enough, I'll cave and pick it up so I can give it a proper read. I still don't pay cover price if I can at all help it, but I make it a point to acquire said book.

I have many more financial concerns these days than I used to. It's not just about me anymore, it's about a car and a house and a wife and kids and making sure we've got enough in the pot to stay afloat if disaster strikes. I can't just spend my money willy-nilly anymore, thus I am forced to be more selective in my purchases (or just try to get them really cheap...thank you Ebay, Amazon and Half Price Books ;)).

agoraderek
07-08-2008, 05:55 PM
...thank you Ebay, Amazon and Half Price Books ;)).

hey that's my line!!! ;)

Inquisitor Tremayne
07-09-2008, 10:11 AM
I have many more financial concerns these days than I used to. It's not just about me anymore, it's about a car and a house and a wife and kids and making sure we've got enough in the pot to stay afloat if disaster strikes. I can't just spend my money willy-nilly anymore, thus I am forced to be more selective in my purchases (or just try to get them really cheap...thank you Ebay, Amazon and Half Price Books ;)).


It seems that this is usually the concern, folks just have other things to spend their hard earned cash on other than building their RPG collection.

So it irks me that there are some that use it as a reason not to buy 4e. Doesn't make sense to me.

Webhead
07-09-2008, 10:36 AM
It seems that this is usually the concern, folks just have other things to spend their hard earned cash on other than building their RPG collection.

So it irks me that there are some that use it as a reason not to buy 4e. Doesn't make sense to me.

For me, my financial concerns don't govern the purchase of 4e any differently than any other RPG book. It's about perceived value. If I perceive that buying 4e will get me my money's worth, I'll buy it. If I feel like I would not get appreciable value out of the books, I won't. But that's me as a general consumer, not strictly as a gamer.

If 4e turns out to be fun to play, I will consider it to be worth owning. If not...well, I guess it's back to the old drawing board. :ranger:

tesral
07-09-2008, 04:34 PM
It seems that this is usually the concern, folks just have other things to spend their hard earned cash on other than building their RPG collection.

So it irks me that there are some that use it as a reason not to buy 4e. Doesn't make sense to me.

Like a new roof.

I'm not buying Forry becasue I don't want to.

Greylond
07-09-2008, 06:32 PM
I also wish that there was a "None" option cause I don't own a single 3E book. Never had the desire to own one...

Tomcat1066
07-09-2008, 07:31 PM
Heh. I've been using my 3.0 PHB even in 3.5. So, of 3x books, I've got the first three books, PHB. DMG, and MM.

Still use them too :D

Moritz
07-10-2008, 01:26 PM
I not only have 30 or so D&D3.x books, but also have many Sword and Sorcery books.
Love them all. Love.

And ya know why I love them?

Cause I got most for under half price while they were rolling off the trucks from WotC from a friend who got them off the back of those trucks. Additionally they gave me a medium by which I had many, many hours of joy with friends around fold up tables throwing weird shaped dice.

It also represents why I'll not buy into the 4.0 editions. The 3.x books were expensive enough, no reason to go down that road again when I already have a collection of something that works for me. But if they happen to show up in PDF format and for free (like the first three books), I won't turn them away (like the first three books).

tesral
07-10-2008, 01:32 PM
But if they happen to show up in PDF format and for free (like the first three books), I won't turn them away (like the first three books).

They have but not for free. Hardly cheaper than the print versions.

Frankly, I am not playing nearly half price for a PDF of a print book. I consdier it poor value being I don't like PDFs. Yes, I would rather pay a bit more and get the dead tree edition.

But I am not buying it, dead tree or dead electron.

Moritz
07-10-2008, 01:38 PM
Guess I'm wearing an eye patch and going 'arrrrrrrrrr' while watching my sails fill with the warm winds of the internet. All the while, Polly sits on my shoulder saying, "it's free, it's free, polly want a cracker too!"

nijineko
07-14-2008, 09:51 PM
i bought a lot... however, almost every one of them was discounted. and i bought at half-price or used whenever i could. nonetheless, that's still a lot of books that were purchased new.

one one hand i find myself reluctant to pay for just a pdf... especially if it's pricey. on the other hand, i try to find electronic copies of every book i own, for convenience.

Webhead
07-15-2008, 12:00 PM
one one hand i find myself reluctant to pay for just a pdf... especially if it's pricey. on the other hand, i try to find electronic copies of every book i own, for convenience.

As do I for the most part. Having a PDF copy of a book allows me to create all kinds of materials and props for my games that would be a pain in the butt to do via Xerox machine and several sheets of paper like in the old days. PDFs can be convenient in a lot of ways, but are no substitute for have a hard copy of a core book at your game table. They are useful for keeping supplement books from cluttering up the game though. Case in point, I own the core Mutants & Masterminds book in hard copy, but all of the supplements in PDF only...because I will only ever need bits and pieces from them at any given time and I don't want to haul 15 pounds of books around with me...and the nice thing about Green Ronin is that most of their PDFs are half cover price.

Bearfoot_Adam
07-15-2008, 09:43 PM
Well I got the core 3.0 books and then the 3.5 phb. I was able to convert the rest. I guess I was pretty lucky compared to sme

Talmek
07-16-2008, 12:24 PM
<SNIP> Now for some math...

Ringing that up at an average MSRP of $29.99 as listed on the back of most of my books...

$29.99 x 25 = $749.75
$749.75 + 8.25% Tax (61.85)= $811.60 <SNIP>

After reading a few responses from other members, I realized that I may have misled the reader into thinking that I paid full price for my collection. The only books that I paid sticker price for was the first set of D&D 3.5e core rulebooks I purchased. The purpose of my math was to show the "potential value" that my collection has, and how much of an investment some players have put into their respective 3.5e collection.

Sorry for any confusion.

nijineko
07-16-2008, 06:39 PM
i come from a background of constant relocation. i never had the same people to play with more than a few months. and we played whatever systems that somebody had on them. and we did a lot of crossover stuff.

so as far as guesstimating equivs? bring it on. that's how i first learned how to rp! rules are nice, cause everyone is on the same page. but don't let one version of the rules hang you up! mix and match, and as long as everyone, or at least the majority is happy, no issues!

you can go with mathmatical translations in many cases, otherwise just do a closest equivilent. =D it's a game! play it your way. =D

Chi
08-09-2008, 04:24 PM
I personaly only have the players manuel but off the top of my head my fiance and I have 6 or more.

Thriondel Half-Elven
08-13-2008, 11:36 PM
I personaly only have the players manuel but off the top of my head my fiance and I have 6 or more.

ya we have:

PHB
DMG
MM
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Forgotten Realms Shining South
Arms and Equipment Guide


Can't remember if we have any more. Will update if we do

Talmek
08-14-2008, 03:11 AM
<SNIP>

Can't remember if we have any more. Will update if we do

Are you planning on staying with 3.5e or have you moved to 4th?

My investment in 3.5 is the primary reason I won't be updating for a looong while.

Thriondel Half-Elven
08-15-2008, 11:52 AM
Are you planning on staying with 3.5e or have you moved to 4th?

My investment in 3.5 is the primary reason I won't be updating for a looong while.

yes i am staying with 3.5. did move to 4th for about 3-4 days then realized i like 3.5 better and had quite a bit invested in that and haven't used them very much.

so i agree, the investment is what IS keeping me in 3.5 for a very long time.

Stormcrow77
08-27-2008, 05:20 PM
One argument is that 4E purpose is to "Move Books".

Let's find out our "Worth" as a customer base.

How many 3.X NEW Books did You buy (Not used ones)?

.


HAhaha
This was the same thing i said when 3rd ed came out.

Anodyzed
08-27-2008, 09:08 PM
None of the choices fit my situation.

I bought PHB and DMG, but not MM.
I also MUCH later bought Complete Warrior.

Won't buy any more.

Probably won't buy ANY of the 4e products.