Clerics vs. Undead

[tesral]

Not being happy with the clerics vs undead table in any of the version of real D&D I did my own.

Clerics vs. Undead
Clerical Turning: Only one try per a given (Individual, not type) undead. Cleric may attempt turning once per day per level plus turning bonus.

Clerics may attempt to turn up to twice their level in hit dice per try. A 7th level cleric can turn 14 skeletons, 7 zombies, or 2 wraiths in a given turn attempt. They can try to turn a single Undead of any hit dice. The undead turned in a large group would be up to the limit closest to the cleric.

A turn attempt is an opposed roll: d20 + Cleric level + Wis Bonus + turning bonus Vs. d20 + Undead hit dice + Wis bonus + turning bonus

Success will turn any undead away from the cleric. They will move away for six rounds at maximum move if possible and cannot come within 30 feet of that cleric again. If the undead cannot move away from the cleric for six rounds they huddle as far away as possible and can only defend themselves for that six rounds, not attack. (they benefit from full AC but cannot attack) If forced inside the 30 foot range they are -2 to all rolls and cannot attack the turning cleric.

Any undead that are half the cleric's hit dice or less are subject to disruption. Disruption happens if the cleric rolls the equal of the undead's hit dice better than the undead. Example, 8th Level Bob turning three Zombies rolls 20, the Zombies roll 18, 16, and 19. The first two zombies are disrupted, the last is turned.

Detecting Undead: This can be tried at will. One try per a given undead or set of undead. A retry can be made if the DC changes by at least 5. The undead to be detected must be in line of sight.

d20 + Clerical level + Wis bonus + turning bonus

DC 20
-2 for each five HD of the most powerful undead present
-1 for each undead present over one
+2 each 10 feet over 30 feet.
+X for undead turning bonus
+5 for indirect viewing (scrying device, crystal ball, etc..)

Examples
-- A hoard of 20 Zombies in clear sight 50 feet away. -19 +4 DC 5. This will drop to DC 3 if they get closer, but would not offer another chance at detection.
-- Five Zombies (-5) and a Wraith it would be -2 for the wraith, +2 for range. DC 15.
-- 10HD ghost seen through a clarvoyance: DC 20 +5 (indrect) -4 (hit dice) +4 turning bonus) = DC 25. Once the ghost is confronted directly cleric can try again at DC 20.

"Turning Bonus" would be the plus or minus that a given clerical order gives the cleric. Typical is none. The Deamwalkers would get a +2 due to their closeness with spirits. Illuminati Priests I will give a +4 due to the undead nature of their gods. As another example Priests of Sharla have a -4 turning bonus, but they get a crack at evil outsiders. Undead can also have a turning bonus. The nature of the undead make it harder to turn. Ghosts for example have a turning bonus. of +4.

[Kilrex]

I actually always found the ways of turning undead in D&D to be overly complicated. I like the Pathfinder way.

From Pathfinder (Alpha Release 3):
When you channel positive energy, you unleash a wave
of positive energy in a 30-foot burst. All undead in this
radius take 1d6 points of positive energy damage plus
1d6 points of positive energy damage for every two
cleric levels you have attained beyond 1st (1d6 at 1st
level, 2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th and so on) and must flee from
you (as if frightened) for 1d4 rounds + your Charisma
modifier. Undead in this radius are allowed a Will save
that negates the frightened condition and results in half
damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your
cleric level + your Charisma modifier. Undead who take
damage greater than their hit points crumble to dust
and are destroyed by the power of your deity. If a fleeing
undead is subject to channeled negative energy, it is not
commanded, but does receive a new saving throw to
dispel the flee effect.

[tesral]

I actually always found the ways of turning undead in D&D to be overly complicated. I like the Pathfinder way.

From Pathfinder (Alpha Release 3):


Feels very 2e.

[Kilrex]

Sad thing is, I have no clue how turning worked in 2nd. We played every weekend Fri 6PM-Sun 8PM almost non-stop (2 alternating DMs and small naps while party would split up for different reasons) for 3 years and I don't ever recall turning undead and I was the Cleric.

[tesral]

Sad thing is, I have no clue how turning worked in 2nd. We played every weekend Fri 6PM-Sun 8PM almost non-stop (2 alternating DMs and small naps while party would split up for different reasons) for 3 years and I don't ever recall turning undead and I was the Cleric.

That isn't how it worked, but it feels like a 2e rule in the syntax and struture.

In 2e you had a chart you rolled a d20 and depending on your level the undead turned or did not.

[agoraderek]

That isn't how it worked, but it feels like a 2e rule in the syntax and struture.

In 2e you had a chart you rolled a d20 and depending on your level the undead turned or did not.

pretty much a tweaked version of tge same chart in the 1e dmg, no? page 77 iirc...

[tesral]

pretty much a tweaked version of tge same chart in the 1e dmg, no? page 77 iirc...

Ayup. Very little change.

[agoraderek]

i miss my old dmg. spilled a candle on the to hit charts on pg 75, scraped it off, and had a cool red stain from the wax that looked like the results of the point of the chart. good stuff...

[nijineko]

i tended to add in an authority factor, regardless of which turning method i used. since there is an heirarchy among powers, that carries over into whom can turn whom. that or only those who have life related effects in the portfolio can turn, just like i frequently have only those who take healing domain can spontaneously cast healing.

[tesral]

i tended to add in an authority factor, regardless of which turning method i used. since there is an heirarchy among powers, that carries over into whom can turn whom. that or only those who have life related effects in the portfolio can turn, just like i frequently have only those who take healing domain can spontaneously cast healing.

Authority factor? Explain further please?

[nijineko]

to take at it's simplest, all the powers have divine ranks. the higher divine ranks have some authority over the lower divine ranks, even if they may not be able to best such an one in that one's domain area of expertiese. this carries over into the mortal realms. so a cleric of (insert high ranked power) can turn the undead minions of another cleric of (insert low ranked power). but not the other way around. assuming that the higher ranked power uses undead. just an example after all. and simplified to boot.

[tesral]

just an example after all. and simplified to boot.

I see. I prefer the opposed roll myself. If I wanted to do that I would give a bonus to the roll based on the divine rank, if any. I suppose that is one reason for the Turning Resistance.

I would make it impossible, I would make it more difficult.

As it is I don't have many gods that directly use undead. The Illuminati are about the only cult that does that isn't also a nasty bunch. I have a couple that are highly anti undead. Kali Ravina for example has the spell rot undead in the slot that animate dead takes. It does as said.