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Dimthar
04-30-2008, 07:40 PM
Well, I guess it was time for a new Thread.

The purpose of the project is to suggest and ultimately create a guideline for parents to know if a particular work of literature is appropriate to their kids age.

I suggest using age groups:
7-8
9-11
12-13
14-17

Would it be fair to assume that most of the time, once a book is read it won’t be pick up again by the Kid? This assumption is to not only consider those elements that may prevent a parent to give a particular book to for example a 9y, but also to suggest that maybe a specific novel may be more attractive or educational to a more mature mind.

.

Dimthar
04-30-2008, 07:47 PM
Age 9 -11
The Hobbit

Ages 12 - 13
All Jules Verne Classics
Martian Chronicles
Chronicles of Dragon Lance
Lord of the Rings
Jurassic Park
Stardust
Neverwhere

Age 13-17
1984
Silmarillion
Interview with the Vampire (and other Ann Rice Vampire Novels)
Call of Chtulhu (and other Mythos novels)
American Gods
Dune

For some reason my mind is blocking everything for the little one, I better wait for other people's suggestions.

.

tesral
05-01-2008, 09:37 PM
How about a differnet approach. Read the books your kids do.

fmitchell
05-01-2008, 10:52 PM
You forgot Narnia in your list.

Really, though, let your kids read what they're interested in reading. I read most of the works of Edgar Allen Poe in grade school (although that might not be the best example), and pretty much anything I could get my hands on in high school.

If you're worried about sex and violence -- and for some reason parents in America worry more about the former than the latter -- make sure you know what your kids are reading, and discuss what they've read. I know that's more work that assembling a whitelist, but if you restrict a kid's reading he'll find anything not on the list all the more tempting.

(I also wonder about the 12-13 category ... are those years somehow magic?)

tesral
05-02-2008, 08:17 AM
You forgot Narnia in your list.

Really, though, let your kids read what they're interested in reading. I read most of the works of Edgar Allen Poe in grade school (although that might not be the best example), and pretty much anything I could get my hands on in high school.

If you're worried about sex and violence -- and for some reason parents in America worry more about the former than the latter -- make sure you know what your kids are reading, and discuss what they've read. I know that's more work that assembling a whitelist, but if you restrict a kid's reading he'll find anything not on the list all the more tempting.

Amen bother, preach it! I am firmly in favor of connection and conversation, firmly not in favor of "lists" of approved and unapproved books.

Fact is when I was told a book was "bad for me", I had to go read it and see what the problem was (Johnathan Livingston Seagull in case you wondered, the Pastor was railing against same) What I found was a light hearted fantasy that didn't really deserve the attention. My Father was upset that I had read it. My reaction was "Why? It's fluff, fantasy, talking seagulls. Half an hour of amusement. Get a grip."

That is the point. The book is harmless. You are not going to limit exposure to books, music and films. In the long run it is a battle you will loose. Take the advice of the Bible whether you are a Christian or not. "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." -- Proverbs 22:6 In plain speaking English, parent. Those first five years are a foundation that cannot be ignored. You cannot censor the world, train the child.

Dimthar
05-02-2008, 12:48 PM
(I also wonder about the 12-13 category ... are those years somehow magic?)

Maybe I was influenced by the DnD stat system.

:)

Dimthar
05-02-2008, 01:14 PM
I am speechless. And the worst thing is that I agree with all said and now am trying to figure out why the whole thing came out so wrong.

My “Inner Debate” is in how to guide in this case my children to be ready for the world and for them to take the best advantage of what world is offering.

I am all for “you should wait until you are ___ because…” and all against “No, you can not read this”. And perhaps in my mind I was hoping to get some help on the first one.

Now that I see it, yes it looks a lot like a “White list”. Shame on me.

cplmac
05-06-2008, 12:39 PM
How about a differnet approach. Read the books your kids do.


On a similar note, how about reading to your children, when they are in the younger groups especially.

spotlight
05-06-2008, 06:17 PM
As far as fantacy goes, add to the list, anything by Edgar Rice Bourghes, Sir Author Canon Doyal, and Robert A. Heinlein. ERB wrote Tarzan, Plucidar, and the Mars stories, the Knight wrote Holmes, and Heinlein did a lot of Scifi.
My mother had these when I was a small boy and I reread them voraciously, over and over. When I left home she and I had a big fight over who actually had the right to keep them. Well, she kept most of them, but every time I visited, one would disappear.

Of course, when my kids began leaving home, those books did another disappearing act.

Turn about is fair play, parents, just teach them the joy of reading. They can get the joy of other stuff on their own.

amardolem
05-06-2008, 07:19 PM
My kids are 6 and 8 (now) on wed. the previous 2 yrs up till about 6 months ago my wife worked the evening shift. I went through may frustrating nights trying to balance getting everybody fed, and prepared for school, and still have a "guys night" (they're both boys) after a few weeks I started reading to them (one of the Harry Potter books) they had seen and liked the movies so they knew the characters. They liked it so much I banned TV for wed. nights; since then I've read them the rest of the series (3) and am currently on the Hobbit.

My 8y reads alot of stuff from the scholastic catalogs they get at school and those people are very good at pegging age groups (it's their job) There's a good portion of new fantasy also due to the popularity of Rowling's books. Also as a reward for him aceing spelling tests, I take him to the comic store (they have games there too ; ) and let him pick something out. (You do have to skim tho..comics have some adult themes too) The adaptations of the Salvatore novels are real good and D&Dish (they're almost all out in graphic novels now too) I like them myself....although I know they're generally looked upon as one of the munchkin creating forces out there. (neophyte D&D games rife with Drizzt's and Legolas's)

I tried reading Burroughs, and I was amazed at how archaic the language he used is. Princess of Mars was a tough outloud read, and they seemed disnterested (I loved it) so I put it off...they can just read it themselves in a couple yrs. I read them "The Cats of Ulthar" every Halloween to give them a little taste of Lovecraft; It implies the horrific but it's otherwise lite. Also Tolkien's "Roverandum" is a good read for 8-10 yr old or to read too 5-8yr old. well I rambled enought that;='s my 10 cents for now :blah::blah:

tesral
05-07-2008, 08:30 AM
On a similar note, how about reading to your children, when they are in the younger groups especially.

Yea verily I tell you. That is exactly how my Mother instilled a love of reading in me. It's how good thinkers are made. I have read and loved to read from the age of four, and I have questioned everything since.



They liked it so much I banned TV for wed. nights; since then I've read them the rest of the series (3) and am currently on the Hobbit.

You rock dude.

cplmac
05-07-2008, 10:04 AM
Yea verily I tell you. That is exactly how my Mother instilled a love of reading in me. It's how good thinkers are made. I have read and loved to read from the age of four, and I have questioned everything since.


There are times that I am in the middle of doing something else, even a couple of times while on this site, that my 2 1/2 year old has wanted to read books. I always stop and read whatever book(s) she wants me to. I do not want to make her think that reading is not fun and I also don't want her thinking that daddy doesn't have time to spend with her.

tesral
05-07-2008, 10:48 AM
There are times that I am in the middle of doing something else, even a couple of times while on this site, that my 2 1/2 year old has wanted to read books. I always stop and read whatever book(s) she wants me to. I do not want to make her think that reading is not fun and I also don't want her thinking that daddy doesn't have time to spend with her.

Then I must say that you rock also.

amardolem
05-07-2008, 11:25 AM
if I only get to rock for one thing, that's the one I'm picking!!

:cool: thanks!

spotlight
05-08-2008, 05:35 PM
I can understand the 'Inner Debate' problem. My mother, may she rest in peace, did a little teaching that way also. Which I tried to copy, as well. There were books that were not on our church's approved list. When one or another was brought to attention, she would simply cation me, "That is not a worthwhile book."

If I questioned it or actually got a copy, She would tell me it taught a bad lesson or idea, and give an appropriate moral point.

I gradually understood that even 'just for fun' books could have serious things to discuss. I did my best to try and teach my children the same. With varying degrees of success.

cplmac
05-08-2008, 06:40 PM
if I only get to rock for one thing, that's the one I'm picking!!

:cool: thanks!


Ditto!

tesral
05-08-2008, 10:25 PM
If I questioned it or actually got a copy, She would tell me it taught a bad lesson or idea, and give an appropriate moral point.

Did she read the book herself, or take the word of the church elders? I'll take direct review by someone that has been there and read that. I'm distrustful of hearsay condemnation. Churchs have agendas.

"Always examine possibilities on their own merits, even if they challenge your faith, always if they challenge your faith. If your faith cannot withstand the challenge of new possibles, or even new facts, then you need to reexamine the faith, not the facts. Facts are, truth is what you find within the facts, faith is what you take from the truth." --The Tao of Phoenix

"As evil fears the light, so does ingnorance fear knowledge. When the priest or the government tries to restrict your learning to "save your soul" or "protect your morals", look closely at what they are selling. Most often your will find it is based on the idea that you must learn nothing but what your are told to believe. These are cheap goods, pass them by. True morals stand firm in the face of all knowledge." --The Tao of Phoenix

spotlight
05-13-2008, 05:43 PM
Actually, I could not always be sure whether my mother had read any particular 'banned' book. As the quote says, she would give an appropriate moral point. As an examble, the oft melined book, The advents of Huck Finn, several parts of that story showed the various children's disrespect for their parents. And I will not pick on any particular scene.

It was apparent from Mom's knowledge, that she had read a particular passage or had intimate knowledge from some where, and would show how it may have tought a bad lesson to the reader, even without their noticing it. Fortunatly, the congregation I went to as a child did not ban any book, music, or even comp. games. But they did give lots of warnings about their contents and the 'why' to avoid certain things.

but so much for that. It was the encouragement to do my own 'investigating' and learning that I really do apreciate.

GBVenkman
05-13-2008, 11:55 PM
If you've read Huck Finn, you'll see that the people he disobeys are the archetype of those who would ban the book in the first place :D

Anybody who would ban such an iconic author as Twain just ain't American.


What gets me is people who go around banning books while standing by the Bible as the most wholesome book in the universe. Makes me wonder if they've ever read the thing.

tesral
05-14-2008, 12:16 AM
If you've read Huck Finn, you'll see that the people he disobeys are the archetype of those who would ban the book in the first place :D

Anybody who would ban such an iconic author as Twain just ain't American.


What gets me is people who go around banning books while standing by the Bible as the most wholesome book in the universe. Makes me wonder if they've ever read the thing.

Murder, incest, war, torture, unfaithful spouses, envy, lust, jealousy. The Bible has it all.

The deal I see is that Huck Finn was never meant to be a book of moral lessons. It was entertainment. Like many other entertainments it isn't trying to teach you anything.

I have found that book banners in general are people that do not read.

GBVenkman
05-14-2008, 04:36 AM
there's lots to learn from huck finn.. I can't think of anything atm but Twain always had tons of social commentary in each of his works.

Anaesthesia
05-14-2008, 12:08 PM
I have found that book banners in general are people that do not read.

Ditto. I often see the same with most books by L. Frank Baum. "Patchwork Girl of Oz" was one of a few books in the series that was abridged/altered, as some folks thought a part of it was racist. I tend to think that the people who thought it was racist went a little overboard. The portion of the book which was removed pertained to the song that the live phonograph was playing. See more here (http://thewizardofoz.info/faq02.html#20)

I've read all the Oz books by Baum (including some non-Oz as well; I haven't found any Oz books written by others yet)-and I think they're wonderful. The only one I would be concerned about reading to a child is "The Tin Woodsman of Oz" only because Nick (the Tin Man/Tin Woodsman) goes back to the Tin Smith's hut and talks to his own head in a jar.

spotlight
05-20-2008, 05:24 PM
Humph! I can't seem to get the 'quote' thing to work yet, I'll learn.
Venkman, please note that I did NOT say disobey, but, rather, I said disrespect.

Villinus archetypes or not, those in positions of authority should always be shown the proper respect.

As an example, wrecking your own house, killing a pig and spreding the blood around the hovel, dragging the dead animal to the river, and THEN running away, so that your drunken father might be blammed for your disappearence, that is just horrible.

tesral
05-20-2008, 10:08 PM
Humph! I can't seem to get the 'quote' thing to work yet, I'll learn.

Like this?



Venkman, please note that I did NOT say disobey, but, rather, I said disrespect.

Villinus archetypes or not, those in positions of authority should always be shown the proper respect.

Which to me is every bit as much as they earn, or don't. However; never question authority. They don't have any answers.



As an example, wrecking your own house, killing a pig and spreding the blood around the hovel, dragging the dead animal to the river, and THEN running away, so that your drunken father might be blammed for your disappearence, that is just horrible.

That's creative revenge. I'll have to remember than one.

jade von delioch
05-21-2008, 09:26 AM
as far as some books to suggest as good reading for children i would offer up the following:
Percy Jackson and the Olympians series.
The sisters Grimm series
Chronicles of ancient darkness series.

spotlight
05-22-2008, 06:09 PM
Yeah, tes, them's the kind of quotes I meant.

And iffn you didn't recognize the runaway's doin's, then yer one o' them's that not read Huck's story.

I personally would never ban any litureature, but I sure would recommend a few to avoid as being without merit.

One other note. No man could possiblly earn respect. It will albe something given, either because of his/her position, or because of your own desire to immitate the person.

Thus I have become my parents, willingly. And I still look at my children, and remind them that the grandkids are just like they were. Children learn by immitating what they see, and books make them seen more.

tesral
05-22-2008, 11:01 PM
I personally would never ban any litureature, but I sure would recommend a few to avoid as being without merit.


I will freely recommend or disrecommend on the notice that it is my opinion.

This is also the reason I prefer book/movie reviewers to book/movie critics. The Critic expects me to believe he knows what is good and what is not. The Reviewer is honest in giving an opinion.

Remember, Free Speech is not for the protection of unoffensive or accepted speech. It is for the protection of offensive and unpopular speech. At one time the idea of civil rights was offensive, and giving women the vote unpopular. At one time the idea that all men are created equal was treason to utter, and could have gotten you hung. That is what is being protected, the possibility of progress. If we must endure a Larry Flynt or two as the price, so be it.



And iffn you didn't recognize the runaway's doin's, then yer one o' them's that not read Huck's story.

No, I haven't read Huck Finn. Which is why I don't comment on the content. So many books, so little time. It does seem a favorite of the book banners however.

MooseAlmighty
05-23-2008, 10:22 PM
Thankfully my parents also read to me each night. My poor dad read Winnie the Pooh more times than he would care to remember (and later Rapunzel repeatedly for my sister). Now I do the same for my son (5) and daughter (8). They're hooked! They ask to go to the library, enjoy reading on their own. She is working on children's novels (Spiderwick, horses, etc). He's still in the younger books of course.

They've seen the comic based movies and see my Avengers etc laying around. For themselves, they like the Marvel Adventures line which is specifically geared for younger readers. He loves the classic Disney comics - found a trade edition of a 7-part Duck Tales story by Marv Wolfman at the library. Been reading (and re-reading) chapters from that.

Some fantasy books I remember reading around 5th-6th grade include a series by Lloyd Alexander: The Book of Three, The Black Cauldron, Castle Llyr, Taran Wanderer and The High King. Then I found the Hobbit :) I had a some Heinlein books that were suitable for a younger crowd too - Space Cadet and The Star Beast come to mind. And a whole heap of choose your own adventure books!

Through middle school and high school it was discovering more Heinlein, Farmer, Robert E Howard, LOTR, Lovecraft, Zelazny, Gene Wolfe, Moorcock, Glen Cook. New releases were Eddings' Belgariad, the first Dragonlance trilogy, Neuromancer...

spotlight
05-28-2008, 05:15 PM
True, free speach is designed to protect offence and/or unpopular speech. Which is why the broadcast community banned useing certain words on the airwaves so many years ago. Then the 'FCC' steped in and said "That's my line."

Dang outa time, will come back later.

spotlight
05-28-2008, 05:36 PM
Rats, these library comps are a pain in the b++ohonkus. Limited time available and stand in line to access privilage.

well, whatever. just let me look at the last couble of posts and get my thoughts back on line.

Just as well, the gov'ment can't (really) control anything, just tax, fee, licence, and whatever else. But the point is that I wouldn't ban anything. I can only tell others what does not pass my moral compass. So, in truth, I can only draw a line for myself.

I just wish I still had kids left to read to.

tesral
05-28-2008, 08:28 PM
Just as well, the gov'ment can't (really) control anything, just tax, fee, licence, and whatever else. But the point is that I wouldn't ban anything. I can only tell others what does not pass my moral compass. So, in truth, I can only draw a line for myself..

And that is all anyone can say. In spite of the fact that there are those that would choose to decide for everyone, and that is why we need free speech.

"Principles and morals are not followed because 'they' do, or do not do. Principles and morals are followed because they are the right and good thing to do, not due to the action or to cause the reaction of others. That is the nature of true enlightenment. Morals are first for one's self." --The Tao of Phoenix (http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/garden/tao.html)