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Tony Misfeldt
04-15-2008, 02:16 PM
I started this thread on www.wherethegamesare.com (http://www.wherethegamesare.com) and it was a lot of fun. Take your favorite fantasy character from TV, movies, or literature and speculate on what level, stats, skills, alignment, etc, they would have if they were D&D characters. And don't feel obligated to restrict your character choices to those from the Harry Potter books and films. The title of this thread could just as easily have been "What Level Fighter Is Xena Warrior Princess?" or "What Level Barbarian Is Thundarr?" or "What Level Ranger Is Aragorn?" or "What Level Wizard Is Gandalph?"

So put your thinking caps on, be creative, and have fun! Use any fantasy resource you want. Xena Warrior Princess, Willow, Dragonheart, Robin Hood: Prince Of Thieves, Kull The Conqueror, Thundarr The Barbarian, The Lord Of The Rings, The Pirates Of The Caribbean, the list goes on and on and on. Have fun and I'm looking forward to reading your responces.

fmitchell
04-15-2008, 03:51 PM
Didn't someone say Gandalf was only a 5th-level Wizard by D&D standards? (Except maybe the whole coming-back-from-the-dead thing.)

The problem with comparing magic-users is that each author's concept of magic varies so wildly that trivial powers in D&D are rare in low-magic worlds, while in others ordinary mortals can sometimes wield what would be world-shaking powers in D&D.

Describe Paul Atreides in D&D Psionics terms. I dare you.

tesral
04-16-2008, 08:25 AM
What he said. It's a frustrating exercise in that the magic systems do not line up. Middle Earth is low or epic magic, Potterverse is common but few have it.

Tony Misfeldt
04-16-2008, 01:26 PM
It can be frustrating translating wizards from one world or another to the D&D system, but it's the challenge that makes discussions like this fun. Remember the whole point of this thread is to have fun speculating, not to lay down the law and say "This is (enter character name here)'s class and level, and that's that!" Just think about what fantasy characters you enjoy watching in movies and TV or reading about in novels and give them the D&D treatment. You think wizards such as Gandalph or Dumbledore are too tough? Try writing up stats for Aragorn, The Scorpion King, Madmarteggan, Captain Jack Sparrow, Xena, or any other fantasy warrior you can think of.

On my original thread we wound up debating whether the characters from the Harry Potter books would be classified as Wizards or Sorcerrors in the D&D game. My opinion is that they're sorcerrors. In D&D wizards have to learn their spells through countless hours of study and meditation, while sorcerrors are born with the ability to cast spells. In Harry Potter witches and wizards are born with their powers and simply go to schools like Hogwarts to learn to control them (rather like mutants going to Professor Xavier's School For The Gifted in The X-Men). We also debated the use of wands in the Harry Potter stories. Some gamers were trying to instill D&D rules to the use of Harry Potter wands (each wand is made to cast certain spells and has X number of charges, etc). I say all spells in the Harry Potter Universe have three components: Vocal (Occulus Repairem); Somatic (Swish & Flick); and Focal (The Wand). Creating and charging wands in D&D fashion doesn't happen in the Harry Potter Universe.

Anyway, like I said before, don't worry about world magical compatibility. If wizards are too tough, do fighters or rogues. If Gandalph doesn't translate well to D&D terms because Middle-Earth is too low magic, do Queen Bavmorta from Willow (she turned 500 men into pigs, that should be some clue as to her level). Just have fun with it. If someone disagrees with your interpretation they can say so and suggest the changes they think should be made to your entry (you made him too high/low a level, you made his stats too high/low, I think his alignment should be this not that, etc). The whole point is to have fun in the speculation, so start speculting.

Tony Misfeldt
04-16-2008, 03:16 PM
Describe Paul Atreides in D&D Psionics terms. I dare you.

As I'm unfamiliar with that character, I'm afraid I can't. But feel free to give it a try yourself.

InfoStorm
04-16-2008, 03:38 PM
Paul Atreides was the primary character in Dune. "The sleeper has awakened!"

Problem is that he's sci-fi, not fantasy. You'd have to use a different game system like Alternity, Traveler 2k, or such.

I find it can be quite hard to translate fantasy to Sci-Fi.

Tony Misfeldt
04-16-2008, 03:45 PM
Okay, I'll give you guys an example.

In the animated feature The Lord Of The Rings, Borimir was depicted as a viking. As fantasy barbarians are based heavily on viking culture, we can assume that Borimir is of the D&D barbarian class. Obviously he's of good alignment, but easily corrupted by the power of The One Ring, thus I'd guess his alignment to be Neutral Good. He single handedly slew several uruk-hai (which in D&D are called orogs), thus he's quite strong and of some skill. In 2nd Ed he'd have a strength somewhere between 18/76 and 18/100. In 3rd Ed he'd have a strength score of at least 18, likely more if he's over 4th level (which he likely is). When he was trying to rescue Merry and Pippin, it took seven arrows to take him down. The arrows were imbedded in his chest up to their fletchings, so we can assume they did max damage. They were also likely to be sheaf arrows, which means Borimir took 56 hit points of damage before he fell (7 X 8 = 56). Subtract 12 from the damage he took and divide the remainder by 6 and add 1 and you'll have his aproximate level (56-12=44, 44 divided by 6 = 7.7), so Borimir is roughly 8th level. So the character is...

Borimir (Human Male NG 8th Level Barbarian)
Hit Points: 56; STR: 20; DEX: 16; CON: 10; WIS: 10; INT: 13
FEATS: Simple Weapon Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Light Armor Proficiency, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Power Strike, Cleave

Skill: Standard Barbarian Skills.

There! That's not so hard is it? Now that I've got the ball rolling, go ahead and make your own additions.

tesral
04-17-2008, 09:26 AM
There! That's not so hard is it? Now that I've got the ball rolling, go ahead and make your own additions.

That one is easy, he gets killed so you have an objective measure of his power level in D&D terms.

What about Gandalf? He fell down the inside of a mountain and fought for three days and nights before defeating his foe (A demon every Orc in creation was running from) and perishing himself. And then he got better. Gandalf is not a mortal being, simple. You are looking at at least A 0 level defic, Level 1 after he comes back. Power level? What is appropriate to your world? Middle Earth counts wizards on the fingers of one hand. D&D they are common as weeds.

Dumbledore is another matter. They don't quite fit the D&D mold. The idea hovers somewhere between the Sorcerer, the Wizard and a touch of Warlock. They never seem to lack magic. We have never seen a Potterverse character to exhausted to do magic. They require training, Wizard like. They have the power from birth, Warlock and Sorcerer like. The magic for the most part is vastly unexplained. It is common and used for nearly everything and kids can do effects that would be major spells in the D&D universe (transformations) but you see none of the mass combat magic. Conclusion, Take a look at your game world and put Dumbledore in the top 1% of Wizards on said world. If that is 11th level so be it, if it's 50th level, then go with it.

You pretty much have to decide where they stand in their own setting as to relative power level and adjust accordingly. In Thindacarulle Both Gandalf and Dumbledore would be wizards of stunning power. Gandalf would be a minor Vala, a godling in short. Dumbledore somewhere over 30th level, possibly even a rare and much feared Century Mage (the number of which can be counted on one hand)

boulet
04-17-2008, 11:38 AM
It seems to me that a character like Dumbledore is better represented by a system like Ars Magica or Mage than d20 systems. Like Tesral said, he never seems to lack magic resource like the typical D&D spell caster do. A system where magical feats are quite limitless in quantity but where risk involved is greater seems more pertinent.

Farcaster
04-17-2008, 12:02 PM
Dumbledore is another matter. They don't quite fit the D&D mold. The idea hovers somewhere between the Sorcerer, the Wizard and a touch of Warlock.

Good point. Perhaps if you were going to build this character in the framework of the D&D system, you'd make him multi-classed. Part sorcerer, part wizard, and perhaps part some kind of wild mage as well -- particularly for Potter himself.

fmitchell
04-17-2008, 12:43 PM
Paul Atreides was the primary character in Dune. "The sleeper has awakened!"

Problem is that he's sci-fi, not fantasy. You'd have to use a different game system like Alternity, Traveler 2k, or such.

Dune is really fantasy with science fiction trappings. Force shields that stop all projectiles? Feudal families? Prescience? Knife-fights?

Actually, Dune's prescience is the one thing which would frustrate any game system. A GM who told the prescient PC exactly what was about to happen, and what kind of moral choice he'd have to make at critical points, would qualify as a railroad magnate. Plus, like many authors, Herbert allows his characters to pull powers out of their nether regions -- prescience can let a blind man see? -- and dismiss them just as readily.

J. K. Rowling is particularly guilty of this, but every author does it to a degree.

What D&D classes and level is Door or the Marquis De Carabas from Neverwhere? What kind of monsters are Mr. Kroup and Mr. Vandemar, or the Angel Islington? D&D is just the wrong system to model that particular work ... not because it's urban fantasy, but because Neil Gaiman didn't think in D&D classes and monsters when he wrote it.

About the only works where you can figure out a neat D&D class and level are books based on D&D, or books that directly influenced D&D (e.g. LotR, Conan, or Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser). Most other works have radically different assumptions about what magic can do, what the human body can do, and why people have adventures.


P.S. Yes, I know I'm being a wet blanket. I don't see the point of the exercise. For those that do, this will be my last post on this thread.

cplmac
04-17-2008, 02:09 PM
For Dumbledore, I would think that he would be at least 15th level. As for Gandalph, I am thinking somewhere along the lines of 8th level before the fall and at least 10th when we next see him.

I have to use the higher level for Dumbledore because there is a vastly greater number of mages/wizards in the Harry Potter setting than there is in the Lord of the rings setting.

Farcaster
04-17-2008, 02:17 PM
What about Legolas though? What level would you place him at? I think that clearly by D&D standards he was an epic archer considering the things he could do. That would probably place him at a higher comparative level than Gandalf or most of the other characters for that matter.

cplmac
04-17-2008, 02:33 PM
What about Legolas though? What level would you place him at? I think that clearly by D&D standards he was an epic archer considering the things he could do. That would probably place him at a higher comparative level than Gandalf or most of the other characters for that matter.


Yes, I agree that Legolas was an epic archer, in my untrained knowledge. I would need to consult with tesral in the matter of archery, my knowledge lies in rifle marksmanship and hand to hand combat. So I would probably list him as 14th level, pending talking with tesral.

I also have to look at each class separately. Trying to judge a fighter and a wizard by the same standards, I feel would be like comparing apples to elephants.

Tony Misfeldt
04-17-2008, 07:09 PM
That one is easy, he gets killed so you have an objective measure of his power level in D&D terms.

What about Gandalf? He fell down the inside of a mountain and fought for three days and nights before defeating his foe (A demon every Orc in creation was running from) and perishing himself. And then he got better. Gandalf is not a mortal being, simple.



For Gandalph, I think his level of power depends on exactly which source you're using as inspiration. In the books he really uses very little magic. But in the movie they make him somewhat more powerful (obviously for dramatic purposes). In The Fellowship Of The Ring, Gandalphs duel with Saroman was pretty much a case of them throwing each other around with Telekenisis spells. Later he uses either a Light or Continual Light spell to light their way through the Mines Of Moriard. Then when he fought the Balrog he protected himself from the demon's fiery sword with some sort of Shield or Wall Of Force spell. Then he broke the bridge with his staff, perhaps a version of the priest spell Earthquake. Check the caster levels for these spells and that should give you some indication of Gandalph's level were he a D&D character.


For Dumbledore, I would think that he would be at least 15th level. As for Gandalph, I am thinking somewhere along the lines of 8th level before the fall and at least 10th when we next see him.

I have to use the higher level for Dumbledore because there is a vastly greater number of mages/wizards in the Harry Potter setting than there is in the Lord of the rings setting.

I'd actually guess Dumbledore to be higher level, 20th perhaps even epic. Reason being is he's the only wizard Voldemort fears. Voldemort was powerful enough to pass beyond being a mortal wizard and become a lich. Liches have at least 18 hit dice (unless they have vastly changed since 2nd Ed) and I find it hard to believe that Voldemort would be afraid of a wizard of lower level than he.

If you're using the LOTR movies as your inspiration of Gandalph's experience level, I think he may be of higher level. Remember, in The Two Towers Gandalph releases King Theodin from Saroman's Domination spell (in the book there was no spell, Gandalph just had to talk him up). Domination is a pretty powerful spell (6th level I think) and it would have had to take quite a powerful wizard to dispell it.




P.S. Yes, I know I'm being a wet blanket. I don't see the point of the exercise. For those that do, this will be my last post on this thread.

The point is to think about things like this and state your opinion for the hell of it. With my old D&D group back home, if we didn't have enough people for a game or we just weren't in the mood for D&D that night we'd put a fantasy movie into the VCR (Willow, Conan, Red Sonja, Beastmaster, whatever) and watch it making these kinds of speculations. The debates that ensued were often as entertaining as the movies themselves, sometimes more so. And now we finally have some people willing to play.

tesral
04-17-2008, 08:22 PM
Check the caster levels for these spells and that should give you some indication of Gandalph's level were he a D&D character.

You're missing the whole falling to the roots of the world in an epic three day battle thing. You know, with the Balrog? A sure push over for an eighth level wizard.

LotR magic does not scale to D&D. You cannot judge by the magic demonstrated. That, as is said, is the rub. Gandalf is no more eighth level than I am a gargoyle. The Simirillion reveals that all the Wizards are low level Vala, godlings.

As to multi classing, again LotR owes D&D nothing. It came first. So why can't wizards use swords if LotR was so influential on D&D? The LotRs characters don't have classes, they have lives. They live the lives and learn things.

cplmac
04-18-2008, 12:07 PM
I'd actually guess Dumbledore to be higher level, 20th perhaps even epic. Reason being is he's the only wizard Voldemort fears. Voldemort was powerful enough to pass beyond being a mortal wizard and become a lich. Liches have at least 18 hit dice (unless they have vastly changed since 2nd Ed) and I find it hard to believe that Voldemort would be afraid of a wizard of lower level than he.

If you're using the LOTR movies as your inspiration of Gandalph's experience level, I think he may be of higher level. Remember, in The Two Towers Gandalph releases King Theodin from Saroman's Domination spell (in the book there was no spell, Gandalph just had to talk him up). Domination is a pretty powerful spell (6th level I think) and it would have had to take quite a powerful wizard to dispell it.


A lich can have as low as 11 hit dice. However further research has led me to find that a lich is to have been at least 18th level before becoming a lich, so I'll change my choice of level to 20 for Dumbledore. This is because I also believe that a lich is not going to be to worried about a wizard that is of a lower level than it is. Also, it states that a lich continues to learn more magic even after becoming a lich.

As for Gandalph, since Domination is a 5th level spell, he would have to be at least 9th level to cast it. Ironically, it's controll is able to be stopped by a 1st level Protection from Evil spell, according to the 2E player's handbook.

Guess I should have looked up the info before making my first post. My appologies.

Tony Misfeldt
04-18-2008, 05:19 PM
As for Gandalph, since Domination is a 5th level spell, he would have to be at least 9th level to cast it. Ironically, it's controll is able to be stopped by a 1st level Protection from Evil spell, according to the 2E player's handbook.

Guess I should have looked up the info before making my first post. My appologies.

While it might be able to dispell a Domination spell with a first level Protection From Evil spell, in 3rd Edition a wizard's ability to dispell another wizard's spell is highly dependant on the wizards levels in relation to each other. The spell to break the hold of a Domination spell might be 1st level, but if so is the wizard casting it it's not likely going to work. Besides, just because a wizard has to be at least ninth level to cast a spell, doesn't mean he can't be higher level than that.


You're missing the whole falling to the roots of the world in an epic three day battle thing. You know, with the Balrog? A sure push over for an eighth level wizard.

LotR magic does not scale to D&D. You cannot judge by the magic demonstrated. That, as is said, is the rub. Gandalf is no more eighth level than I am a gargoyle. The Simirillion reveals that all the Wizards are low level Vala, godlings.

As to multi classing, again LotR owes D&D nothing. It came first. So why can't wizards use swords if LotR was so influential on D&D? The LotRs characters don't have classes, they have lives. They live the lives and learn things.

Never actually read The Simirillion myself, that's an interesting bit of info. But in D&D, even the gods are assigned levels (at least to determine their level of power when compared to mere mortals). Haven't you ever read Deities & Demigods or Faiths & Avatars?

I've never said that Gandalf was only 8th level. Personally, I find that kind of low. I'd have to watch the movies again and try and match the spells he uses with their D&D equivilants. I also never said he was multiclassed either. I play 2.5 not 3.5, and there are actually 2.5 rules for allowing characters to weild weapons that are normally forbidden to their class. Thus a wizard can use a sword if he wishes to spend the extra character points.

And if you don't wish to take part in the speculations, then don't. No one is forcing anyone else to post. For those of us who are enjoying this exercise, we've got some great speculations here. Keep it up. I'm looking forward to reading more of your posts.

Tony Misfeldt
04-20-2008, 02:27 PM
I've been watching the LOTR movies again (it takes less time than rereading the book) and the spell Gandalf uses to block the Balrog's attack looks more like a Globe Of Invulnerability in D&D. That would put his level at around 12th. And you're forgetting that in The Hobbit, Gandalf would appear, disappear, and then reappear later on, almost at random. This would say to me he's capable of teleportation, likely Teleport Without Error. This would put his level closer to 14th.

tesral
04-21-2008, 02:14 PM
And if you don't wish to take part in the speculations, then don't. No one is forcing anyone else to post. For those of us who are enjoying this exercise, we've got some great speculations here. Keep it up. I'm looking forward to reading more of your posts.

So I'm in here speculating. I am simply saying that LotR magic does not scale with D&D spells. Likewise the Potterverse. Not equivalent. Ergo you have to look at what is said about the character and the position they hold within their World less at what apparent spell usage they demonstrate.

I have noticed a tendency to pick a spell demonstrated, and peg the caster at the minimum level to cast that demonstrated spell. So if Shella appears in before you and does no magic but produce flame, are you going to peg her as a low level wizard? There is more going on than the magic demonstrated. I as a Wizard will not show off my best shot just so I can be pegged for level. Indeed I tend to have my PCs play their actual capacities close to the chest.

Gandalf (It is an "f" not a "ph" BTW) is a minor godling and highly respected among the peoples of Middle Earth. No one takes him lightly, whether they like him or not. So, you are dealing with at least Defic Level 0 here, and as to actual wizard power, what is the most powerful wizard in your game? Gandalf should be in that league.

Again we look at Dumbldore. Highly respected, even feared by the denizens of his world. No one takes him lightly, even the BBG that takes everyone else lightly. While clearly not a DL0, he is a high level wizard and should rate with the best your World has to offer.

Look at the whole picture, don't narrow your focus to demonstrated spells.

Farcaster
04-21-2008, 10:35 PM
You make excellent points, Tesral. I understand what Tony is trying to do though a well. I think he is aiming at making an equivalent character in D&D terms based primarily on their demonstrable powers, not necessarily their status in their own milieu.

cplmac
04-22-2008, 10:12 AM
While it might be able to dispell a Domination spell with a first level Protection From Evil spell, in 3rd Edition a wizard's ability to dispell another wizard's spell is highly dependant on the wizards levels in relation to each other. The spell to break the hold of a Domination spell might be 1st level, but if so is the wizard casting it it's not likely going to work. Besides, just because a wizard has to be at least ninth level to cast a spell, doesn't mean he can't be higher level than that.


The way I understand the 2E book, the first level spell only prevents the caster of a domination spell from being able to use the link to the person it was cast on, it doesn't actually dispell the domination. Also, I have always been of the mind set that to be able to counter act a spell of another magic user, the second mage would have to be of the same level or higher. I thought this was the general rule in 2E. Is it the same in the newer versions also?

I'm using what would need to be the lowest possible levels for this thread. Yes, it is totally possible for the character to be of any level higher than these. Sorry about the confussion.

tesral
04-22-2008, 02:32 PM
You make excellent points, Tesral. I understand what Tony is trying to do though a well. I think he is aiming at making an equivalent character in D&D terms based primarily on their demonstrable powers, not necessarily their status in their own milieu.

However if you are trying to peg the power level of a given character, their position within their own milieu will tell you more about their power level than any power actually demonstrated. A Gandalf clone in Forgotten Realms is not going to act as did Gandalf. Heck, what do you think Elminster is? FR magic is powerful and freely used. A whole different ball of wax than Middle Earth were magic is either small or epic, with little evidence for the middle range. No character is an island. To peg the power level you need to examine the gestalt, not simply stated ability.

mrken
04-22-2008, 05:12 PM
DnD? Whatís that? However, in my world Dumbldore would be a 95th level since that is as high as anyone can get, most only get to about 50 to 70. Because Gandalf is a deity of sorts I would give him at least a 10 x 3 to everything, at least. But there has been so little magic there it frustrates most magic using character players. Is it ok I donít translate them to DnD? :biggrin:

Farcaster
04-22-2008, 05:17 PM
What system is that, Mrken?

Tony Misfeldt
04-22-2008, 06:07 PM
The way I understand the 2E book, the first level spell only prevents the caster of a domination spell from being able to use the link to the person it was cast on, it doesn't actually dispell the domination. Also, I have always been of the mind set that to be able to counter act a spell of another magic user, the second mage would have to be of the same level or higher. I thought this was the general rule in 2E. Is it the same in the newer versions also?

I'm using what would need to be the lowest possible levels for this thread. Yes, it is totally possible for the character to be of any level higher than these. Sorry about the confussion.

As I don't play wizards often I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly certain that it's the same way in both systems. It's just a little easier to understand and execute in 3rd edition. And thank you for clearing up your earlier posts. Maybe in future poste you could write something like "That character would have to be at least this level to accomplish that (spell/feat/whatever)". That would help clear up future confusions.


So I'm in here speculating. I am simply saying that LotR magic does not scale with D&D spells. Likewise the Potterverse. Not equivalent. Ergo you have to look at what is said about the character and the position they hold within their World less at what apparent spell usage they demonstrate.

I have noticed a tendency to pick a spell demonstrated, and peg the caster at the minimum level to cast that demonstrated spell. So if Shella appears in before you and does no magic but produce flame, are you going to peg her as a low level wizard? There is more going on than the magic demonstrated. I as a Wizard will not show off my best shot just so I can be pegged for level. Indeed I tend to have my PCs play their actual capacities close to the chest.

Gandalf (It is an "f" not a "ph" BTW) is a minor godling and highly respected among the peoples of Middle Earth. No one takes him lightly, whether they like him or not. So, you are dealing with at least Defic Level 0 here, and as to actual wizard power, what is the most powerful wizard in your game? Gandalf should be in that league.

Again we look at Dumbldore. Highly respected, even feared by the denizens of his world. No one takes him lightly, even the BBG that takes everyone else lightly. While clearly not a DL0, he is a high level wizard and should rate with the best your World has to offer.

Look at the whole picture, don't narrow your focus to demonstrated spells.

Sorry, but your earlier posts all seemed to have a negative edge to them. "The magic of these two worlds is totally different so why bother speculating" seemed to be your overall opinion.

Now that you've explained your points more clearly, your earlier posts make more sense and don't just look like a disgruntled person griping over something meant to be fun and challenging. I have to say that I agree with you on the respect of looking at the whole of the characters description not just the powers demonstrated. But you have to start such exercises somewhere and powers demonstrated is as good a place to start as any.

If Shella (whoever the hell that is) were to just appear before me, then the first bit of magic I would've seen was a teleportation spell (possibly even Teleport Without Error), not Produce Flame. That would have my estimation of her powers much higher than first level.

As for Dumbledore, I've always maintained that he was of very high level, certainly 20th or better. I often tend to guess that character levels are higher than they actually are. After all, one doesn't go around showing off his best secrets right away does he? At least no wizard worth his robes would and stay alive very long to enjoy it. To quote Qui'Gon Jin "There's always a bigger fish".

mrken
04-22-2008, 06:30 PM
What system is that, Mrken?

Farcaster, I must assume you are referring to my game and not DnD. Lol

My system does not use classes but rather skills, on a d100 scale.

Tony Misfeldt
04-23-2008, 05:32 PM
Okay, I'll do Xena.... Uh!.... There, did'er. Now I'll make her into a D&D character...

First off, she should deffinately have levels in fighter. After all, she is The Warrior Princess. She should be high enough level to specialize in both the sword and chakram. A fighter has to be at least 4th level to specialize. If she's specialized in both then she must be at least 5th level. She was also the head of her own army, so she must have had the Leadership feat. That would make her at least a 6th level fighter. Now let's just boost that up to 9th level to get her that extra +1 to a stat of her choice. Now with all those cool martial arts moves she does she must have some levels in monk. Her little neck pinch thing closely resembles the monk's Quivering Palm ability, which can only be used at 15th level. Thus she is 24th level total. I figure her stats are likely...

STR: 15 DEX: 20 CON: 16 INT: 15 WIS: 16 CHA: 20
Alignment: CG Feats: Weapon Focus Chakram; Weapon Focus Sword; Simple Weapon Proficiency; Martial Weapon Proficiency; Exotic Weapon Proficiency Chakram; Light Armor Proficiency; Weapon Specialization Chakram; Weapon Specialization Sword; Power Strike; Cleave; Great Cleave; Vorpal Strike; Deflect Arrow; Mounted Combat; Mounted Archery; Leadership.
Skills: She has many skills.

tesral
04-23-2008, 06:47 PM
Okay, I'll do Xena.... Uh!.... There, did'er. Now I'll make her into a D&D character...\

Fighting types are easier, everything is up front. We also got many seasons to see and catalog Xena "at work". More data means a better picture.

boulet
04-23-2008, 08:01 PM
Many would do Xena I think

Malruhn
04-23-2008, 10:41 PM
I'd force her to sit back and watch as I toyed with her little, blond friend!! Hmmmmmmm.

tesral
04-24-2008, 09:52 AM
Many would do Xena I think

Lucy Lawless is not hard on the eyes to be sure.

Farcaster
04-24-2008, 01:15 PM
STR: 15 DEX: 20 CON: 16 INT: 15 WIS: 16 CHA: 20


Lucy Lawless is not hard on the eyes to be sure.

Nonetheless, I think charisma 20 is way too high for her based on what little of the series I saw. First, charisma doesn't simply represent physical appearance. That being the case, we have to take into account her personality, which from what I saw was quite gruff. Still, points to her for leading an army. That does take a certain force of personality. She might be in the 15-16 range.

tesral
04-25-2008, 10:29 AM
Still, points to her for leading an army. That does take a certain force of personality. She might be in the 15-16 range.

That is where I would peg it. You have to watch out for that stat inflation.

Tony Misfeldt
04-25-2008, 01:03 PM
Nonetheless, I think charisma 20 is way too high for her based on what little of the series I saw. First, charisma doesn't simply represent physical appearance. That being the case, we have to take into account her personality, which from what I saw was quite gruff. Still, points to her for leading an army. That does take a certain force of personality. She might be in the 15-16 range.

I was going on the assumption that Xena had an 18 CHA at 1st level, then improved it as she leveled up. I would concede that she may have started with a CHA score of 15-16, but that would leave her final score at 17-18 (I ranked her at a wopping 24th level remember). As for how I came to that conclusion, looks played a part in it, but that wasn't my sole reason for such a high score. To those of us who haven't followed the character from the beginning, I'll explain a little about Xena's history. She was introduced as a villain on an episode of Hercules, where she tried to kill Hercules by seducing his frien Iolas and forcing them to fight each other to the death (she didn't really believe Iolas would win, she was counting on Hercules to be so emotionally shattered at having killed his best frien that he'd be unable to defend himself against her). As you mentioned, she did rule her own army. While she was in charge of that army, she conquered almost as often with diplomacy as she did with violence. She always gave her intended targets a chance to surrender without loss of life before she attacked. And if they decided to fight, she only had her men kill the able bodied men defending the towns, never the women, children, and elderly. And when she was looking for new recruits, she didn't always take the professional soldiers. She also recruited the simple woodsmen and farmboys who were looking for a more exciting life. Often she would employ seduction as a tactic to get these recruits, a strategy that takes as much charisma as it does beauty. And lets not forget that she had mellowed considerably after she had given up the life of the warlord and became a traveling hero.


Fighting types are easier, everything is up front. We also got many seasons to see and catalog Xena "at work". More data means a better picture.

Fighting types aren't always easier. Xena's a little easier than most because she has certain skills which translate fairly well to D&D terms. Her little neck pinch for example is essentially like the Quivering Palm ability of a monk "I've cut off the flow of blood to your brain! You'll be dead in minutes unless yiou tell me what I want to know!" The fact that she led an army tells us she likely has the Leadership feat. And a chakram is deffinately an exotic weapon, so she must have Exotic Weapon Proficiency Chakram. Since it's her preferred weapon, she's also likely to have Weapon Specialization in it. Other characters are a little more difficult. Madmarteggan and General Kale from Willow for example. Red Sonja, Conan, and Hercules are all fairly easy, as they have already been given the D&D treatment from TSR and later WotC and Mongoose Publishing as have King Arthur, Sir Lancelot, and Merlin. And as you said before, Borimir is easy because he dies, thus we have an estimation of his number of hitpoints and therefor an aproximate experience level. But what about Aragorn? What level ranger would you peg him at?


Many would do Xena I think

I'd make sure she wore her leather & bronze armor. Oh! And bring her bullwhip too! Gotta have that!

cplmac
04-27-2008, 08:43 PM
I'm thinking that I would agree with Farcaster about the charisma of 16 for Xena. Especially at the start. Now, if you take into consideration, many encounters taking place over time, I do believe that experience can help raise charisma due to "learning" what works better to persuade others.

tesral
04-27-2008, 10:41 PM
You need to watch the stat inflation. Yes, I tend to do it as well. One thing I do for my own standard is to consdier anything over 20 as "supernatural". Joe average is an 10-11. Good looking salesmen in the 12-13 range. Localk political, popyular people in the 14-15 range National politicans and pop stars as high as a 16-17. Only the most convincing and beautiful are in the 18-19 range. Beyond that is beyond mortal hope. You will not see it outsdie of a fantasy game.

Xena I would place in the 14-15 range keeping in mind that is is much better than average.

kaibrightwing
05-27-2008, 01:58 AM
if i used my 31 level mage 2ed againist vodmore from harry potter my mage easily kill him. by using spell in 2ed i found taking him on was easy but with my firend and i that was how we figured it out the just me.

cplmac
05-27-2008, 08:59 AM
Wow! I have never seen anyone get to level 20 as a mage let alone 31 in 2E.

tesral
05-27-2008, 09:17 AM
if i used my 31 level mage 2ed againist vodmore from harry potter my mage easily kill him. by using spell in 2ed i found taking him on was easy but with my firend and i that was how we figured it out the just me.

As I've said, it's not a fair comparison. Different assumptions different systems.

One also has to question the build of Voldmort. Such a persistent and epic villain should not "easily" fall prey to anyone.

In my world a Voldmort class villain would have to be one of the ancient and feared Century Mages. The last such battle had the 15th plus level party in a battle that lasted the entire night, ended with a 135 die fireball bing volleyed back and forth between the Paladin and the Mage. The mage finally lost a save ad the thing went off.at 124 dice. The corner the castle was brought down and the party had to crawl through the ruins to escape.




Wow! I have never seen anyone get to level 20 as a mage let alone 31 in 2E.


It's possible, I've done it. You just have to be willing to play high level character and play them frequently. We used to have what we called "Unlimiteds" Wilderness crawls where characters of any level could come. We would haul out our hoary old favorites and tack another level on them. Ancient dragons, foul necromancers, all sorts of things came out of the woodwork when those characters came out.

spotlight
05-27-2008, 06:28 PM
Those what get to lvl 31 in 2e has Monty for a dm.

tesral
05-27-2008, 11:52 PM
Those what get to lvl 31 in 2e has Monty for a dm.

Then you don't know enough. Sometimes it simply requires that you play the character long enough.

As I recall some of those characters started as 0e character and were played well into late 1st edition. I don't think I have done an "unlimited" since 2e came out. Different group, different fun.

Tony Misfeldt
05-28-2008, 05:29 AM
Then you don't know enough. Sometimes it simply requires that you play the character long enough.

As I recall some of those characters started as 0e character and were played well into late 1st edition. I don't think I have done an "unlimited" since 2e came out. Different group, different fun.
I never worked an actual PC past the early to mid teens in level. But with my old gaming group we were constantly switching DMs, and thus characters. The first thing you usually heard at one of our D&D games was "Alright! New adventure, new campaign, new characters! Everybody get out your character sheets and start rolling up your characters, we're starting at 1st level! Roll 4d6, drop the lowest, no rerolls!" Kinda tough to get beyond second or third level that way. Sometimes we were lucky and the DM would say "This is an adventure for characters of X level, pull out a favorite character of apropriate level please!" That's how all of my higher level characters got so high in level. Didn't happen very often though, which is why I've still got a binder full of barely used 2nd Ed PCs.

spotlight
05-28-2008, 05:04 PM
Actually, I found that MOST players did not honestly reach those higher levels thru role-playing. In fact, I recall one of my first serious sessions as a DM was eclipsed by a player useing characters that were (1) a palidin and (2) a bard.

The bard in particular, was something else indeed. As the player expected to find all sorts of goodies, (treasure, majic items, etc.) I tended to oblige to some degree. I made sure musical instruments with the apropriate abilities were among the goodies to be found. What happened? The bard kept selling the useful things to 'get the gold' and continued to play the bard as a ranger. Made me wonder how he got his thief levels. Needless to say, he went elsewhere when his bard could not advance beyond forth level.

So those who claim to have advanced to extreme levels and want to play in a champaigne of my making? What's your previous GM's name and number. I am verifying this.

tesral
05-28-2008, 05:10 PM
So those who claim to have advanced to extreme levels and want to play in a champaigne of my making? What's your previous GM's name and number. I am verifying this.

Why would I want to play a character of inappropriate level and background in your game? You will never see one of those character unless you play in my game and encounter them in their role as senior NPCs.

spotlight
05-28-2008, 05:25 PM
Well, Tes, years ago, it was apparently common for folks to want to play a favorite character in other DM's worlds. Of course I learned from that experience. Either tone down the character to match the intended level of the champaigne or start a new character.

But you are correct, who really would want to play an inappropriate character. Especially in one of my champaigne worlds.

Tony Misfeldt
09-15-2008, 07:17 PM
:focus:

THUNDARR THE BARBARIAN


I would say Thundarr is probably no less than a 16th level barbarian. In 2nd ed he'd have 18/100 strength, and Grand Mastery in the Sunsword. In 3.X ed he'd have a strength of 22, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Sunsword, as well as Weapon Focus and Weapon Expertise feats in Sunsword. His Dexterity would be somewhere between 15 and 18, as would his Constitution. His Intelligence would be somewhere between 10 and 13. He's rash and impulsive, as well as quick to anger, so I would put his Wisdom score rather low, about 8 or 9 (possibly even as low as 7). He seems to make friends rather easily, so I'd put his Charisma at about 13. If you're using the Comeliness rule (which I always do), I'd give him a Comeliness score of no less than 14 (Ariel does have a crush on him after all).

Thundarr level 16 human male barbarian
STR: 18/100 (22)
DEX: 17
CON: 16
INT: 12
WIS: 8
CHA: 13
COM: 14



Princess Ariel



I've been watching my bootlegs of Thundarr The Barbarian and recording the various spells Ariel casts in the show, then comparing them to the spell lists in my D&D books. According to my calculations, she casts up to 9th level spells. In 3rd ed D&D she'd be at the very least an 18th level sorceress, in 2nd ed an 18th level mage. Given her beauty and ability to cast 9th level spells, I'd say her Charisma is likely about 20 (possibly more). Her Intelligence and Wisdom are both very high, likely 16 or better. If she were a 2nd ed character, she'd have an Intelligence of 18 for sure. Her Dexterity would be pretty good, likely 15 or better, due to the acrobatic skill she exibits in the show. Her Strength and Constitution scores are probably in the high average range, about 12 each. If you're using the Comeliness rule, her Comeliness score would be in the high teens to early twenties (18 to 21).

Ariel level 18 human female sorceress
STR: 12
DEX: 16
CON:12
INT: 18
WIS: 16
CHA: 18 (20)
COM: 21

Ookla The Mok

Moks in the Thundarrverse are very similar in many ways to alaghi in the D&D games. Only real exceptions seem to be height (alaghi are just over 6' while moks are closer to 8'), strength (Ookla can throw cars and trucks around like they're beach balls), and speach (alaghi can learn to speak common, while moks can understand common but are unable to speak it). If you happen to play the Star Wars Saga game, moks are actually closer to wookiees than to alaghi. But this thread is about D&D characters, so I'll stick to my alaghi analogy. Due to the exceptional strength demonstrated in the show, I'd say that Ookla likely has a strength score that's no less than the equivelant of Stone Giant Strength. Perhaps even Fire Giant Strength. In first and second edition D&D that would be somewhere between 20 and 22 Strength. I don't know what it is in 3.X, probably somewhere in the 40s. His Dexterity isn't as good as Thundarr's or Ariels. He has pretty good hand/eye coordination, as is evident by his skill with his mok longbow, but he's hardly light on his feet. I'd say his dex is either in the high average to low teens (11 to 13). His Constitution is likely very good, probably at least in the mid teens (15 or better). Moks are highly intelligent, so I'd put Ookla's Intelligence score in the high average to low teens as well (11 to 13). Ookla's Wisdom is likely pretty low, due to his innability to control his insatiable curiosity or his temper. Thus I'd say his Wisdom score is no higher than 9, but more likely 7 or 8. Ookla's Charisma is a little tough to judge. Humans don't tend to find moks very handsome or charismatic. However, in the episode Treasure Of The Moks it was quite apparent that Ookla was considered quite the catch amongst his own people. Also, he's quite friendly (sometimes too friendly, as Ariel's ribcage can attest to), hugging people a little too hard when he's happy. Thus I'd say his Charisma score is in the low teens amongst humans, but in the mid to high teens amongst moks. Likewise with his Comeliness score. So both his Charisma and Comeliness scores are about 13 to humans, but 15 to 18 amongst moks. As Ookla has been adventuring just as long as Thundarr, I'd have to guess that they're both about the same level. In Second Edition, Ookla would be a 16th level fighter with Grand Mastery in Wrestling, and Specialized in both Mok Longbow and Pummeling. In 3.X Ed, he'd be a 16th level fighter with Improved Specialization in Wrestling (as well as all the Prerequisite Feats), as well as Specialization in both Pummeling and Mok Longbow (as well as all the Prerequisite Feats).

Ookla level 16 male mok fighter
STR: 22 (2nd Edition)
DEX: 12
CON: 16
INT: 12
WIS: 7
CHA: 13 (16 to moks)
COM: 13 (18 to moks)

(Stats in parenthasis are for 3.X ed+ only, otherwise stats are for pretty much any edition.)

nijineko
09-15-2008, 07:21 PM
Didn't someone say Gandalf was only a 5th-level Wizard by D&D standards? (Except maybe the whole coming-back-from-the-dead thing.)

The problem with comparing magic-users is that each author's concept of magic varies so wildly that trivial powers in D&D are rare in low-magic worlds, while in others ordinary mortals can sometimes wield what would be world-shaking powers in D&D.

Describe Paul Atreides in D&D Psionics terms. I dare you.


gandalf was actually more equivalent to a druid as it was explained to me. ^^ but then, looking at the merp setting, spells go up to 50th level, for one, and stats are 1-100+. *shrugs* and aquisition of spells are handled completely differently. rolemaster is a fun game, if one has a knowledgable dm.

Bob the Dalek
07-17-2009, 07:38 PM
Just chiming in, but with 3.5ed Dumbledor would have to have at least a few levels of Prestige class: Order of Merlin (I'd guess at 6th level, based on what I remember from the books). You have to remember though that he was very old and that at least 3 spells taught were so strong that they couldn't be saved against. Even a sixth level wizard (guessing at 1 level per school year and all adults are at easily 7th -10th level wizards) could kill him with Avada Kadavra(PowerWord: Kill).

I would also peg Snape as having 3.5ed Ebberon Artificer levels. (Potions Master)

tesral
07-18-2009, 07:21 AM
I have found that trying to shoehorn literary wizards into D&D is at best a difficult proposition. The Author has no reason to stay within the constraints and structure of the D&D game world.

The Harry Potter setting is a particularly difficult one. Rawlings' world building is flaky at best.

Tony Misfeldt
07-19-2009, 02:27 AM
I have found that trying to shoehorn literary wizards into D&D is at best a difficult proposition. The Author has no reason to stay within the constraints and structure of the D&D game world.

The Harry Potter setting is a particularly difficult one. Rawlings' world building is flaky at best.

A difficult prospect? Sure. But it could also be a fun one. And that's the whole point of this thread. Maybe Rawlings writings don't 100% match D&D wizards, but that's irrelevant. Just read the books, watch the movies and TV shows, take a guess at what level the wizard in question is, write it down and have fun with it.

tesral
07-19-2009, 10:12 AM
A difficult prospect? Sure. But it could also be a fun one. And that's the whole point of this thread. Maybe Rawlings writings don't 100% match D&D wizards, but that's irrelevant. Just read the books, watch the movies and TV shows, take a guess at what level the wizard in question is, write it down and have fun with it.


So I'm in here speculating. I am simply saying that LotR magic does not scale with D&D spells. Likewise the Potterverse. Not equivalent. Ergo you have to look at what is said about the character and the position they hold within their World less at what apparent spell usage they demonstrate.

I have noticed a tendency to pick a spell demonstrated, and peg the caster at the minimum level to cast that demonstrated spell. So if Shella appears in before you and does no magic but produce flame, are you going to peg her as a low level wizard? There is more going on than the magic demonstrated. I as a Wizard will not show off my best shot just so I can be pegged for level. Indeed I tend to have my PCs play their actual capacities close to the chest.

Gandalf (It is an "f" not a "ph" BTW) is a minor godling and highly respected among the peoples of Middle Earth. No one takes him lightly, whether they like him or not. So, you are dealing with at least Defic Level 0 here, and as to actual wizard power, what is the most powerful wizard in your game? Gandalf should be in that league.

Again we look at Dumbldore. Highly respected, even feared by the denizens of his world. No one takes him lightly, even the BBG that takes everyone else lightly. While clearly not a DL0, he is a high level wizard and should rate with the best your World has to offer.

Look at the whole picture, don't narrow your focus to demonstrated spells.

Rawlings isn't a 01% match for D&D. It is a whole different ball of wax. One can depend even less on observed power and must seek the gestalt of the character by position in society. Dumbeldore is the big cheese, and would rate higher than any other wizard of the setting.

My last choice for playing the Potterverse would be D&D and the ridged and limited magic system thereof. Potter needs a far more flexible system. I would be looking more to a specific build of a universal system such as GURPS or Hero. Or looking for a custom system build around the magic as demostrated.

For example, no one ever seems to lack for magic. Even if it's the wrong or mis-done spell the spell has power. Focus and personal development are more important. Students of only a couple of years training can make objects, and do utility magic easily.

It should be a system of low mortality. People get hurt, cursed and such, but always seem to be back in the game by morning. A death is remarkable.

Rawlings has highly inconsistent worldbuilding. One would have to make some serious judgment calls to get a working game world.

Tony Misfeldt
07-20-2009, 04:41 AM
Again, I never said in any of my posts that looking at the spells exhibited by a character is the one and only way to judge what level they are in D&D terms. I just point out that it's one of many things a person needs to take into consideration when speculating.

For example, in D&D there are several spells that have similar results to Avra Kadavra in the Potterverse. There's the Death Spell, Finger Of Death, and of course Power Word Kill. Which of these most closely resembles the Avra Kadavra spell is a matter of opinion. You might think it's more like Finger Of Death while I might think it's more like Power Word Kill. There is no right or wrong here, only opinions. In my opinion, Dumbledore is of epic level both by the level of power he demonstrates in the books and movies and the level of respect he's achieved in the wizard community.

I think Hogwarts students likely achieve one experience level per year of study at school and are likely 7th level by the time they graduate. I also think Harry, Hermione, and Ron might be a little ahead of a lot of their classmates because they're forced to use magic in life and death situations on a very regular basis every year (with Voldemorte constantly coming after Harry and anyone who happens to be near him).

Look at how I broke down my analysis of Thundarr, Ookla, and Ariel from Thundarr The Barbarian. I looked at what each character does and how they're regarded by others on the show. Then I assign stats, levels, and skills based on those observations. Ariel casts spells that are obviously at least 9th level, if not epic. That makes her at least an 18th level sorceress. Using the d20 system, she'd need to have at least a 19 CHA to cast those spells. Her beauty also supports this, and it also means she must also have a high COM (if that stat's being used). Thundarr's skill with his Sun Sword means he must be of high enough level to gain improved weapon expertise in the d20 system, which makes him at least 9th level. And he has to have Weapon Expertise in Sun Sword as without such skill, one would be far more likely to harm himself than his opponents. His feats of strength are far greater than what someone with only a 20 STR could do (which is the maximum he could have at 9th level), so he's at least 7 levels higher (as minimum level one could be for a 22 STR is 16). And Ookla would have to be of a comparable level to his two companions. All things are looked at, broken down, analyzed, then commented on. If other people want to play this another way that's their prerogative. I won't moan about it. Give them my thoughts and opinions on their analysis? Sure. But I won't moan about it.

tesral
07-20-2009, 08:53 AM
Thundarr is a little after my time. Hence my lack of comment.

Potterverse and D&D are poor matches. Actually the books specifically mention that Harry is a so-so student with some specific talents. (Yes, I've read most of them.)

The kids in school are doing all sorts of small magics throughout the day. Making potions, turning mice into snuff boxes (Polymorph any object at first level?) and other such activities. The demonstrated powers and abilities are not in line with the manner in which D&D breaks them down.

Yes, you can put a dog into a suit, but it will do neither the suit nor the dog any favors.

Dumbeldore = epic level. Agreed. But if I am putting Dumbledore into my D&D universe I am not trying for a direct translation. More of a transliteration. I am going to create an Epic level Wizard and call him Dumbledore.

If I am trying to put the suit on the dog the wizards and witches of the Potterverse are more like trained sorcerers than wizards. They have to have the magical talent to start with, demostrated in youth by wild effects. They go do school not to get magic, but to learn to train and focus what they have to start with.

Frankly that dog looks silly.

spotlight
07-22-2009, 05:36 PM
I agree in this, the Potterverse is no match for D&D. I had little to say a while ago, but now I have the movie collection (less 'The half-Blood Prince' of course). Having watched them several times each in the last few weeks, it is obvious that 'levels' as posed by D&D would not work. Each character in the books and shows have their own level of majic ability, but can do ANY spell they have prepared.

As an example, the patronus charm which Harry does, is very powerful of itself. Near the end of the story, he performs it at a much high level than his teacher did. But when he teaches it to the other in the Phinix Army, the others were demonstrating much lower levels, although admittedly, not under presure to make it bigger.

I am about out of library time so I cannot continue my thoughts today. will comment again latter.

Addis Hellfire
07-27-2009, 10:58 PM
Going to interrupt your chains of thoughts by adding in chars that I would like to see dissected . . . this is a hobby of mine, so I'm loving this thread . .

Ryu & Ken (Streetfighter) . . . Not all that sure how to make them statistically, but I'm pretty sure that they would be both Monk/Warlock cross-classes . . .

Dante & Virgil (Devil May Cry) . . . I want to say Planetouched for their races . . . but other then that I am stumped. Any ideas?

Cloud & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) . . . Yes, those two. Cloud obviously uses a Fullblade (stats are in the 3.5 A&E guide) . . . Sephiroth? And no idea what to do with their classes . . . I guess you can forget their magical powers (Materia) because that's equipped and in no way natural (ok, so maybe Sephiroth has his own powers . . . ok, fine, so he does . . ) argh, not sure where to even start there.

Golbez (Final Fantasy III, but in this case Dissidia Final Fantasy) and Emperor Mateus (Final Fantasy II) . . . how do I pull off this stuff??
Golbez Gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwS4SYF7AU8
Emperor Gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMxW03SewUE

Ansem (Kingdom Hearts) . . . I love shadow magi . . . how do I make him?

tesral
07-28-2009, 06:03 AM
Fullblade....

Everyone else is using what, a half blade? a five-eights blade?

Windstar
07-28-2009, 06:47 AM
Fullblade....

Everyone else is using what, a half blade? a five-eights blade?


Umm, yea, when I first picked up my 4e PHB I seen that wondered the exact same thing and am still wondering.

Tony Misfeldt
07-29-2009, 02:25 AM
Umm, yea, when I first picked up my 4e PHB I seen that wondered the exact same thing and am still wondering.



I've never played 4th Ed, but if I had to hazard a guess I'd say a full blade is 4th Ed speak for a great sword, just as a great sword was called a two handed sword in 1st and 2nd Ed.
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Going to interrupt your chains of thoughts by adding in chars that I would like to see dissected . . . this is a hobby of mine, so I'm loving this thread . .

Ryu & Ken (Streetfighter) . . . Not all that sure how to make them statistically, but I'm pretty sure that they would be both Monk/Warlock cross-classes . . .


They're not really D&D characters, but good job. I don't know if I'd make them Monk/Warlock cross-classes, but then I don't play 4th Ed so that might be a good fit. Monk/Sorcerer cross class would be better for 3.X.



Dante & Virgil (Devil May Cry) . . . I want to say Planetouched for their races . . . but other then that I am stumped. Any ideas?


I'm not familiar with these characters, so I have no opinion one way or another.



Cloud & Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) . . . Yes, those two. Cloud obviously uses a Fullblade (stats are in the 3.5 A&E guide) . . . Sephiroth? And no idea what to do with their classes . . . I guess you can forget their magical powers (Materia) because that's equipped and in no way natural (ok, so maybe Sephiroth has his own powers . . . ok, fine, so he does . . ) argh, not sure where to even start there.


Never got into the Final Fantasy games, so I don't know who these characters are. I'll bow down to your superior knowledge on this matter.



Golbez (Final Fantasy III, but in this case Dissidia Final Fantasy) and Emperor Mateus (Final Fantasy II) . . . how do I pull off this stuff??
Golbez Gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwS4SYF7AU8
Emperor Gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMxW03SewUE


Again I'm unfamiliar with these characters, so I'll leave suggestions/opinions to others who play Final Fantasy.



Ansem (Kingdom Hearts) . . . I love shadow magi . . . how do I make him?

What's Kingdom Hearts? Is that a novel? Video game? Movie? As for shadow magi, in Forgotten Realms 3.5 Campaign Setting there's a prestige class called shadow mage. Perhaps you could use that.
--- Merged from Double Post ---

I agree in this, the Potterverse is no match for D&D. I had little to say a while ago, but now I have the movie collection (less 'The half-Blood Prince' of course). Having watched them several times each in the last few weeks, it is obvious that 'levels' as posed by D&D would not work. Each character in the books and shows have their own level of majic ability, but can do ANY spell they have prepared.

As an example, the patronus charm which Harry does, is very powerful of itself. Near the end of the story, he performs it at a much high level than his teacher did. But when he teaches it to the other in the Phinix Army, the others were demonstrating much lower levels, although admittedly, not under presure to make it bigger.

I am about out of library time so I cannot continue my thoughts today. will comment again latter.


First of all, I said from the very beginning that you don't have to choose characters from the Potterverse. I just chose Dumbledore for the title because of the current popularity of the Harry Potter books & movies. I could've made the title "What Level Wizard Is Merlin" but since he'd already been given the D&D treatment in Legends & Lore, that seemed a pretty moot point. So if you don't feel that Dumbledore translates into D&D? Do Conan and Thulsa Doom. Do The Scorpion King. Do Madmarteggan and Queen Bavmorta. Whatever D&D style character you want to give the D&D treatment to, do it.

Secondly, I agree with the notion that in the Potterverse witches and wizards are closer to D&D 3.X sorcerers than they are to wizards. So if Dumbledore is a sorcerer, what level sorcerer is he? (Personally I'd say epic, like at least 25th total levels when you ad up all his prestige classes).
--- Merged from Double Post ---

Thundarr is a little after my time. Hence my lack of comment.



After your time or before your time? Sorry, I don't know how old you are so I don't know if you were too old for cartoons back in 1980. For the record I'm 35 and I still enjoy cartoons. As for Thundarr, I believe they show reruns of it on The Cartoon Network in the States (we don't get The Cartoon Network in Canada, we have Teletoon and Teletoon Retro, niether of which shows Thundarr reruns). You can learn all about Thundarr at www.thundarr.com.

"In the year 1994, from out of space comes a runaway planet hurtling between the Earth and the Moon, unleasing cosmic destruction!

Man's civilization is cast in ruins! 2000 years later, Earth is reborn! A strange new world rises from the old! A world of savagery, super-science, and sorcery!

But one man bursts his bonds to fight for justice! Together with his companions Ookla The Mok and Princess Ariel! He pits his strength, his courage, and his fabulous Sun Sword against the forces of evil!

He is, THUNDARR THE BARBARIAN!!!

Windstar
07-29-2009, 06:37 AM
I've never played 4th Ed, but if I had to hazard a guess I'd say a full blade is 4th Ed speak for a great sword, just as a great sword was called a two handed sword in 1st and 2nd Ed.



They have a greatsword as well and the stats are differant.

tesral
07-29-2009, 01:45 PM
First of all, I said from the very beginning that you don't have to choose characters from the Potterverse. I just chose Dumbledore for the title because of the current popularity of the Harry Potter books & movies. I could've made the title "What Level Wizard Is Merlin" but since he'd already been given the D&D treatment in Legends & Lore, that seemed a pretty moot point. So if you don't feel that Dumbledore translates into D&D? Do Conan and Thulsa Doom. Do The Scorpion King. Do Madmarteggan and Queen Bavmorta. Whatever D&D style character you want to give the D&D treatment to, do it.

No character not made in D&D is truly going to fit D&D. Fighter types will fit better because swinging a sword isn't as complicated or variable as magic can be.

spotlight
07-30-2009, 04:25 PM
Why did I bother saying 'Potterverce'? It's a bit lame sounding now. It is unfortunatly very true that few other systems and stories can translate well into D&D. If one does a particular character, like Dumble or Gandolf, and manage to do it well, then one finds other characters from the same grouping NOT fitting so well.

Of course, I don't bother with D&D much anyway. In fact, I have never gotten a character past about eleventh level personally. Now, if anybody had asked about HeroGames, especially Champions, system. Well, a generic system like that is much easier to translate....Even if it does a lot of number crunching.

tesral
07-30-2009, 07:55 PM
I would have to agree. D&D is rather ridged in it assumptions, while a genetic system can be made to work with the assumptions of the given universe.

Tony Misfeldt
07-31-2009, 05:55 AM
Why did I bother saying 'Potterverce'? It's a bit lame sounding now. It is unfortunatly very true that few other systems and stories can translate well into D&D. If one does a particular character, like Dumbledor or Gandolf, and manage to do it well, then one finds other characters from the same grouping NOT fitting so well.




Don't feel too bad about using the term "Potterverse", I've used it myself on occasion (more than once actually).

As for translating non-D&D characters into D&D terms, it doesn't have to be 100% accurate to the original character. Look at Elminster (who actually is a D&D character) for example. When Ed Greenwood first created him, he was a 26th level mage. Now he's like a 17th level mage, a 3rd level rogue, a 2nd level fighter, and maybe a prestige wizard class (or something like that). The point is he's changed from his original incarnation. God knows what Lizards Of The Coast have done to him since.

So instead of worrying too much about a direct translation, try doing a transliteration. Like "If you were to create a 'Hogwarts' type school of wizardry in your D&D campaign, and you were to give that school a headmaster named Dumbledor, how would you make him? What would his stats be? His class? His level? Etc."

tesral
07-31-2009, 06:09 AM
So instead of worrying too much about a direct translation, try doing a transliteration. Like "If you were to create a 'Hogwarts' type school of wizardry in your D&D campaign, and you were to give that school a headmaster named Dumbledor, how would you make him? What would his stats be? His class? His level? Etc."

Exactly, and in my world I would have to make him higher level to fit. My top Wizards are very old, very powerful. Elmeinster as written is good but not Epic in the classic sense of the word.

Harwel
07-31-2009, 03:11 PM
Dumbledore is level Oneofthegreatestwizardsever.

Tony Misfeldt
07-31-2009, 08:04 PM
Exactly, and in my world I would have to make him higher level to fit. My top Wizards are very old, very powerful. Elmeinster as written is good but not Epic in the classic sense of the word.


Elminster was epic when he was first written, but then Lizards had to tinker with him and now statistically speaking he's not nearly as epic as he used to be. I would have made him a 2nd level Fighter, 3rd level Rogue, 2nd level Cleric, 20th level Wizard, and at least 3 levels of a wizard prestige class. That would make him a total of at least 30th level.

But enough about Elminster. Let's get back to translating (or transliterating) other fantsy characters. Wizards, rogues, warriors, whatever. If you think you can do Red Sonja? Do Red Sonja. If you think you can do The Scorpion King? Do the Scorpion King. If you think you can do Thulsa Doom? Do Thulsa Doom. If you think you can do Malek? Do Malek. Just be creative and have fun with it.

Tony Misfeldt
08-01-2009, 05:24 PM
Okay, so for those of you who have never seen Thundarr The Barbarian, I'll break my analysis down for you a bit further.

Thundarr

Strength: Throughout the show, Thundarr had demonstrated numerous incredible feats of strength. In the opening credits we see Thundarr breaking the chains of his shackles with just his brute strength, then pick up a mutant guard and throw him across the room. In the episode Valley Of The Man Apes, the man apes captured Thundarr and his companions and tied them up to be left as dinner for their pet dragon. Thundarr snapped his bonds with a single flex of his mighty biceps. Now if I were to create a character like that for 1st or 2nd Ed D&D, I would give him 18/100 STR. 18/100 STR gives a +6 damage adjustment in combat. In 3.X Ed, you need a 22 STR to get a +6 combat adjustment. And since minimum level for a 22 STR is 16, his level must be at least 16.

Dexterity: In several episodes, Thundarr shows incredible agility during battle. He swings through the air on vines, uses flag poles and tree branches as paralel bars, does triple summersaults in midair and lands on his feet with catlike grace, etc. He also dodges laser blasts and wizard spells. This all suggests a very high DEX score.

His Sun Sword: Thundarr's Sun Sword is, for all intents and purposes, a jedi lightsaber. It cuts through virtually anything like a lightsaber does, it deflects lasers like a lightsaber does, it even makes sounds similar to a lightsaber. Thus I had to look up lightsabers in the Star Wars RPG handbook for an idea on how to run Thundarr's Sun Sword in a D&D game. From what I can gather, lightsabers require their own weapon proficiency as they are unique weapons totally unrelated to any other weapon in the Star Wars Universe. Thus, the Sun Sword requires an Exotic Weapon Proficiency Feat. Thundarr's skill with the weapon suggests he's more than just proficient. Therefore he also has the Weapon Focus and Weapon Expertise Feats. This also ads to the theory that he's of about 16th level.

Alignment: In 1st and 2nd Ed, barbarians can be of any alignment. Being a hero, Thundarr is obviously of LG, NG, or CG alignment. For 3rd Ed, the choice is cut down to only NG or CG. Given Thundarr's short temper and impulsive personality, I'd have to go with CG.

Level: aside from strength and number of feats, there are other clues to indicate tha Thundarr must be of fairly high level. The ease in which he defeats each villains minions for example. He also has a certain level of arrogance when battling such minor foes. Like in the very first episode The Secret Of The Black Pearl, when Thundarr was preparing to face off against a horde of attacking groundlings (which are kinda like mutant rat-men, think wererats in their hybrid form).

Quote
Ariel: You're going to face them alone?
Thundarr: There can't be more than fifty of them! I'll be fine!

Only those with lots of XP can have that kind of moxi in a game of D&D.

Ookla

Strength: As with Thundarr, Ookla demonstrates incredible feats of strength in virtually every episode. Moks are bigger and stronger than humans, thus a mok PC would likely get a STR bonus similar to an ogre or giant PC. Ookla's feats of strength outclass Thundarr's by a mile. He'll pick up a boulder 10 times his size, or an ancient dump truck, and throw it at his enemies. He'll yank a steel support beam out of an ancient sky scraper and use it as a club. He'll grab the ancor from an ancient ocean liner or an ancient wrecking ball and use it as a flail. He must have giantlike strength. In 1st and 2nd Ed, I'd guestimate his STR to equal a stone giant, maybe a fire giant. Under those rules that would put his STR at about 20 to 22. I'm not sure what giant strength is in 3rd ed, but I know ogre strength is around STR 24. So I'd guess maybe STR 40 to 44?

Dexterity: Ookla is very good with his mok bow (think voadkyn long bow). However he tends to be quite clumsy, a trait often used for comic relief on the show. Thus I would put his DEX score at a low average, low enough to not gain any bonuses, yet not so low as to cause penalties in combat. 8 or 9 maybe?

Weapon Proficiencies: In the show, Ookla does most of his fighting with his bare hands. He'll occassionally shoot Stun Arrows with his mok bow, but mostly he picks people up and throws them. One of his favorite tactics is to squeeze 2 or more enemies in a bear hug until they're unconcious. This says to me Weapon Specialization in Wrestling. His level of skill with his mok bow, dispite his lack of grace in other aspects of his life, suggests to me Weapon Specialization in Mok Bow. And he's likely specialized in Pummeling as well. In a 3.X Ed game, in order for a D&D character to have enough feats to specialize in 3 weapon proficiencies, he'd have to be a fighter (as no other classes are allowed to take that feat). It takes 3 feats to specialize in each proficiency. That makes him a minimum of 9th level. He likely has improved weapon specialization in at least one proficiency. That takes 3 more feats, making him 12th level. If he has improved weapon specialization in all 3, that would make him a minimum 18th level fighter.

Alignment: Given Ookla's extreme reactions to things, both positive and negative, I'd peg his alignment as CG. If he's happy to see you, he'll grab you in a bearhug that'll almost kill you. If he's angry he'll smash the nearest thing to him. Lawful and Neutral alignments tend to be more reserved.

Wisdom: In addition to Ookla's trouble controlling himself when he's really happy or angry, he also has trouble controllong his insatiable curiosity. In the episode Challenge Of The Wizards Ookla found an ancient slot machine in the ruins of Las Vegas and pulled the handle. He scored a jackpot and was bombarded with silver dollars. Ariel said, "Ookla, one of these days that curiosity of yours is going to get you into trouble". Thus his WIS score is likely pretty low, like around 8.

Level: Given the amount of time Thundarr and Ookla have been traveling together, they're probably at least the same level. As Thundarr is at the very least 16th level, then so too must Ookla. If Ookla has Improved Weapon Specialization in all three of his primary weapons, then he can't be less than 18th level. I'd say he has improved specialization in 2 out of 3. That makes him at least 15th. He probably has improved weapon focus on the 3rd.

Princess Ariel

Class: In the Thundarrverse, wizards, witches, and sorcerers are three seperate things. In 1st and 2nd Ed D&D, they're 3 different names for the same thing. Now in 3.X they're 3 different things. Since in the show Ariel is classified as a sorceress, I'll do likewise.

Level: Ariel casts many spells throughout the show. Many of them have virtual paralels with certain D&D spells. Levitation, telekenisis, hold person, hypnosis, animate object, sleep, wall of force, they've all been used. In the episode Raiders Of The Abyss, she teleported herself into a wizards lair (teleport without error). In order to do all this, she must be of at least 18th level.

Charisma: Sorcerers spellcasting requires high charisma. Some of the spells she'd demonstrated are of at least 9th level. Thus Ariel must have a CHA of no less than 19. Plus, she's totally hot. I can't believe Thundarr never boinked her.

Intelligence: Ariel is well schooled in ancient lore. She grew up reading every book in her step fathers library. She knows all about movies, computers, airplanes, automobiles, the history of cities such as Beverly Hills, New York, and Las Vegas, as well as more current things like magic and monsters. As such her INT must be quite impressive, mid to high teens.

Wisdom: Ariel is the voice of reason for the group. She often advises caution in dangerous situations. Thundarr and Ookla rarely heed her advice, but she advizes anyway. This says to me her WIS is near, if not equal to, her INT.

Strength and Dexterity: She's quite agile, capable of dodging lasers and wizard spells just as well as Thundarr. This tells me she has a really good DEX, likely in the mid teens. She's also quite good at climbing up ropes and cables. Which means her STR must be better than average as well, probably the low teens.

Comeliness: If your using this stat, there's no doubt her COM is at least as high as her CHA. And since a CHA of 19 or higher gives a +5 bonus to your COM, we're looking at a COM of at least 24 in 3rd ed.

XeroDrift
10-08-2009, 10:48 PM
Dumbledor seems to have reached the level of "perpetually bored" which would make him "umpteenth level" he just has a lower modifier than Voldemort.

As for converting any given pop culture figure (real or fictional) into game terms, anyone with a brain and a familiarity with the rules of a game could easily do so (within the context of said game)

P.S.
Tony... that was WAY too long a post... (said with love of course)

tesral
10-09-2009, 01:19 AM
Someone is necroing threads around here.

Soft Serve
01-14-2010, 04:17 AM
Stumbled upon this thread at about 4 AM. I had something to say an hour ago when I started reading it...Now I'm just going to go to sleep, hope it comes back to me in the morning and that it was worth the hour of reading and...head...hurty.

Although if nothing else, very interesting thread.


And (this isn't what I planned on throwing in) but if this thread comes back to life, taking from memory the highest level you've ever seen Jozan the Cleric from WotC material where would you peg his level? Or Lidda the Rogue, or Mialee the Wizard, or Soveliss the Ranger? I've actually seen Regdar lv8 I think on a Lockwood Art site...

Tony Misfeldt
01-15-2010, 02:44 PM
And (this isn't what I planned on throwing in) but if this thread comes back to life, taking from memory the highest level you've ever seen Jozan the Cleric from WotC material where would you peg his level? Or Lidda the Rogue, or Mialee the Wizard, or Soveliss the Ranger? I've actually seen Regdar lv8 I think on a Lockwood Art site...

I believe those characters' stats/levels are included in the class descriptions in the 3.X Edition Players Handbook.

Soft Serve
01-16-2010, 07:37 AM
I believe those characters' stats/levels are included in the class descriptions in the 3.X Edition Players Handbook.


Not that I ever saw, but I didn't go through every book ever made. The biggest thing I've ever seen Jozan do is resurrect somebody. I've seen Ember deflect arrows, and Eberk break down walls... Just asking what the biggest thing you've seen them do is, and where you would peg their levels on a whim.

Tony Misfeldt
01-10-2011, 02:01 AM
Dungeons & Dragons: TAS

The Young Ones

Hank, The Ranger:
Male Human Ranger 7
LG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init: +3 Senses: Listen +11, Spot +11
Languages: Common

AC: 19, touch 13, flat-footed 16, (+3 DEX, +1 natural, +6 armor, +1 deflection); Dodge
HP: 49 (7 hd)
Fort: +7, Ref: +8, Will: +4

Speed: 30 ft
Melee: Masterwork Longsword +10/+5 (1d8+2/19-20)
Ranged Weapon: Energy Bow +14/+9 (2d6+4/x3)
Base Atk: +7; Grp: +9

Str: 14 Dex: 17 Con: 15 Int: 10 Wis: 15 Cha: 18

Energy Bow
Price: 22600 gp
Body Slot: Held
Caster Level: 6th
Aura: Moderate (DC 18) Evocation
Weight: 3 lbs
Prerequisites: Craft Magical Arms & Armor; Magic Missile
Cost To Create: 11500 gp, 888 xp, 23 Days

Eric, The Cavalier
Male Human Fighter 7
NG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init: +5; Senses: Listen +0, Spot +2
Languages: Common, Giant

AC: 22, touch 11, flat-footed 21 (+1 Dex, +7 Armor, +4 Shield)
HP: 57 (7 HD)
Fort: +9, Ref: +7, Will: +4

Speed: 30 ft
Melee: Griffon Shield +13/+8 (1d8+9)
Base Atk: +7 Grp: +11

Str: 18 Dex: 13 Con: 14 Int: 13 Wis: 10 Cha: 9

Griffon Shield
Price: 20370 gp
Body Slot: Held
Caster Level: 8th
Aura: Moderate (DC 19) Evocation
Weight: 15 lbs
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms & Armor, Bull's Strength, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Cost To Create: 10270 gp, 808 xp, 21 days

Diana The Acrobat
Female Human Monk 7
LG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init: +3 Senses: Listen +5, Spot +5
Languages: Common, Giant

AC: 22, touch 17, flat-footed 19 (+3 Dex, +3 Wis, +1 natural, +3 armor, +1 deflection)
HP: 56 (7 HD)
Immune: Disease
Resist: Evasion
Fort: +8 Ref: +10 Will: +8 (+10 vs Enchantment)

Speed: 50 ft
Melee:
Javelin Staff +11 (1d6+4)
Flurry Javelin Staff +10/+10 (1d6+4)
Unarmed Strike +9 (1d8+2)
Ranged: Javelin Staff +11 (1d6+4)
Base Atk: +5; Grp: +7

Str: 14 Dex: 17 Con: 16 Int: 13 Wis: 17 Cha: 11

Javelin Staff
Price: 25000 gp
Body Slot: Held
Caster Level: 8th
Aura: Moderate (DC 19), Transmutation
Weight: 2 lbs
Prerequisites: Craft Magical Arms & Armor, creator must be a monk
Cost To Create: 12800 gp, 976 xp, 25 days

Presto The Magician
Male Human Wizard 7
NG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Intit: -1; Senses: Listen +4, Spot +2
Languages: Common, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Orc

AC: 11, touch 10, flat-footed 11 (-1 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection)
HP: 40 (7 HD)
Fort: +7, Ref: +5, Will: +9

Speed: 30 ft
Melee: Dagger +3 (1d4/19-20)
Melee: Dagger +2 (1d4/19-20)
Base Atk: +3 Grp: +3

Str: 11 Dex: 9 Con: 16 Int: 20 Wis: 15 Cha: 13

Hat Of Many Spells
Price: 25000 gp
Body Slot: Held
Caster Level: 10th
Aura: Moderate (DC 20), Enchantment
Weight: N/A
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, Empower Spell, Confusion
Cost To Create: 12500 gp, 1000 xp, 25 days

Sheila The Thief
Female Human Rogue 7
NG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init: +4 Senses: Listen +11, Spot +11
Languages: Common, Sylvan, Elven

AC: 21, touch 15, flat-footed 21 (+4 Dex, +6 Armor, +1 deflection)
HP: 48 (7 HD)
Resist: evasion, trap sense +2
Fort: +5, Ref: +9 Will: +3

Speed: 30 ft
Melee: Masterwork Rapier +11 (1d6/18-20)
Base Atk: +5; Grp: +5

Str: 10 Dex: 18 Con: 17 Int: 14 Wis: 13 Cha: 15

Cloak Of Invisibility
Price: 26000 gp
Body Slot: Shoulders
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: Moderate (DC 18), Illusion
Weight: N/A
Prerequisites: Craft Wonderous Item, Greater Invisibility
Cost To Create: 13000 gp, 1040 xp, 26 days

Bobby The Barbarian
Male Human Barbarian 7
CG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init: +1 Senses: Listen +9, Spot +4
Languages: Common

AC: 18, touch 11, flat-footed 18 (+1 Dex, +2 natural, +5 armor)
HP: 79 (7 HD), DR: 1/-
Resist: Trap Sense +2
Fort: +9 Ref: +3 Will: +1

Speed: 40 ft
Melee: Thunder Club +14/+9 (1d10+8)
Base Atk: +7 Grp: +11

Str: 19 Dex: 13 Con: 18 Int: 10 Wis: 8 Cha: 10

Thunder Club
Price: 31305 gp
Body Slot: Held
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: Strong (DC 22), Evocation
Weight: 10 lbs
Prerequisites: Craft Magical Arms & Armor, Bull's Strength, Earthquake
Cost To Create: 15805 gp, 1240 xp, 31 days.