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fmitchell
10-08-2006, 11:42 PM
All I see in the GURPS forums are automated posts. Is anyone on these boards actually playing a GURPS game? If so, I'd like to know:


Are you using 4th Edition or 3rd?

If you use 4th, do you also use some 3rd edition material? What's it like to port?

What genre(s) are you using?

Do you use published worlds like Yrth or the Infinite Worlds metaverse?

Do you use the standard magic system? Psionics? Powers? Some homebrew magic or superhuman abilities? How is it working out?

Generally, what do and don't you like about GURPS (any edition)?

Lest I bias the results, I'm an old 3rd edition GM who's reading up on 4th, and liking most of the changes I see. I have a grudge against the standard magic system -- as a fledgeling GM I ran a campaign of mages who ran roughshod over all my plots -- and would like to craft my own, more subtle magic rules. Yrth looks interesting for its plausible historical divergence, but I'm not keen on the standard fantasy races (another, more philosophical, bias).

Thanks for any and all replies, unless they suck. (Joss Whedon *is* my master now.)

Skunkape
10-09-2006, 09:28 AM
I used to run 3rd edition, does that count? I never really had any issues with my players running roughshod over my plots. Biggest thing to remember is to only allow the players the number of points you want to have them build characters on for the power level of your campaign. If you don't have your NPCs built powerfully enough, then you'll get PCs stomping them without them having a chance to fight back.

That's partly why I stopped using the system. I always wanted to build every important NPC, both good guys and bad, so that they would be balanced pointwise to the other PCs. Meaning, if they were more powerful than the other PCs, then they had more points, less powerful - less points, etc.

Well, I really don't have time to do that as much anymore, or I should say, don't want to spend time to do that anymore, so I've switched to the d20 system. GURPS is a great system, but it does take a lot of work, balancing points.

Hope that helps you with your game. Don't hesitate to ask more questions, I'll try and give you any advice I can. Hopefully it'll be helpful.

Farcaster
10-09-2006, 10:15 AM
Are you using 4th Edition or 3rd?
If you use 4th, do you also use some 3rd edition material? What's it like to port?
What genre(s) are you using?
Do you use published worlds like Yrth or the Infinite Worlds metaverse?
Do you use the standard magic system? Psionics? Powers? Some homebrew magic or superhuman abilities? How is it working out?
Generally, what do and don't you like about GURPS (any edition)?

I have dabbled in GURPS. I have been working on and off for the past 10 years on a campaign world that is set in a future where humans are starting to develop measurable psionic powers. When I first started working on it, I was trying to make my own system, but my attempts devolved into a series of complicated charts and graphs that were required to play, plus the minutia of creating a gaming system just got old after a while.

So, recently I tried using hte 4th edition GURPS rules as a framework for the game, and it seemed to work pretty well. My chief complaints were that even using the character builder software and doing one on ones with my players, it still took as much as 3 hours for each of them to build a character. In addition, the combat rules just seemed a tad too cumbersome. Maybe it was because I hadn't run it before or even played, so I'm definitely willing to give it another go. I like it, and I like the versatility of the GURPS Powers with limitations and enhancements to really make powers unique, but it was a bit on the complicated side.

fmitchell
10-09-2006, 09:21 PM
I've been out of gaming for a while (as stated multiple times), and I've become enamored with the "rules-light" generic games like Fudge, FATE, and PDQ. (Maybe they'd be a better base for your new game?) Still, I'm nostalgic for GURPS, so I'd like to try 4th Edition just once.


My chief complaints were that even using the character builder software and doing one on ones with my players, it still took as much as 3 hours for each of them to build a character. In addition, the combat rules just seemed a tad too cumbersome.

The complexity of character generation worries me too. I have two vague ideas how to control it:


Start with GURPS Lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/), and introduce parts from the full rules as needed. In its 32 pages it presents the basic concepts of GURPS, without the profusion of options that quickly boggles the inexperienced.

Build templates not only for nonhuman species (or "races"), but for professions and character types as well. Players used to D&D or other games will feel more comfortable with pre-set abilities, but can still customize (with GM's approval) to something fitting their concept. (Alas, not an option for a GM pressed for time.)


As for combat ... I don't remember it being any more cumbersome than D&D, and in some ways easier. Maybe I should play through a combat before I speak, though ... I've only skimmed the second volume (second volume!) of the Basic (Basic?) Set. At any rate, maybe the GURPS Lite version (with a healthy dollop of Just Fudge It [tm]) would help.

fmitchell
10-09-2006, 09:36 PM
I never really had any issues with my players running roughshod over my plots. Biggest thing to remember is to only allow the players the number of points you want to have them build characters on for the power level of your campaign.

Actually, the real problem -- and why I perhaps irrationally blame magic -- was that every character was a mage and far more experienced as players than I was as a GM. Many were old-time Champions wonks, and knew how to crock a system. Plus, as novice GM, I didn't look too closely at their spell lists, so I forgot that Player A could teleport through locked doors, and Player B could Control Earth. So, what I thought of as a challenging puzzle or political conundrum quickly turned into four spell rolls and me trying to improvise a new challenge. Not to mention metagame factors: one guy had some paranormal ability over dice, and another "friend" would do something stupid and impulsive and, when it went pear-shaped, persuaded me that what he *really* meant to do was ...

Now I'm older, and I'd like to think I'm wise enough not to allow "takebacks", and to give great responsibilities along with great power. But I still blame magic.

Aside: Actually, when Man to Man and Orcslayer first came out, with only chargen and combat rules, I was also reading the first edition of Pendragon which argued that the real legends and myths kept magic very much in the background, and I've always loved the idea of fantasy without the sort of "scientific magic" most games seem to promote. See John H. Kim's "Breaking Out of Scientific Magic Systems" (http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/magic/antiscience.html) for the sort of thing I'm aiming for.

VonKyrin
01-30-2007, 04:04 PM
Right now, GURPS 4E is my favorite gaming system. I'm an experienced gamer in the Dallas area and wouldn't mind finding a GURPS group to join. I've never played GURPS 3E and have only played GURPS 4E a few times. I'm trying to write a few campaigns, but I'm a very busy person and only work on it when I get a rare spare moment. I've started doing research for writing a GURPS 4E adventure in a historical Western (something somewhat like the DeadWood series on HBO). I've also done some development work on a Sci-Fi world of my own invention that I've been dreaming up for several years.
The Sci-Fi world is my replacement for the Star Wars universe, since I feel like Star Wars is so "epic" that you can't really create an epic story in it. It would just be too limiting on what I can create. So, I took the Space Opera concept of Star Wars and began creating. Along the way I discovered the Battlestar Galactica series on the Sci-Fi channel and have been leaning more to the "Character Development" side of writing like they do in the Battlestar series. Anyway, I have a lot of ideas for that world/game setting which I've only begun to flesh out.
I haven't found anyone in the Dallas area to play GURPS with, so I'm considering trying to write that Western and publish it.
I'd be interested in joining a group if they're playing GURPS 4E. I don't really have any interest in 3E.
I'm open to most historical settings and willing to consider pretty much any setting.
My ideal gaming group would be one where everyone takes turns running GURPS 4E games. I'd also prefer an Internet gaming group as it would be a lot easier on the time schedule to get together via the Internet than in person. However, I'd be open to joining an in-person group in the Dallas area.
I can be contacted at CamdenRothschild@yahoo.com Just be sure and mention GURPS.

PhishStyx
02-07-2007, 12:29 AM
I have Transhuman Space and several other GURPS, 3rd books, but I haven't ever played or GM'ed, just haven't had the chance.

Aramax
06-13-2007, 05:53 PM
GURPS GOOD(except for fantasy and Supers)
Ive run gurps Call of Cthulu,Star Trek(Fedaration clasic,Klingon and Lyran)Traveller,Old West,Pirates,Aliens and(yuch!)Fantasy.
INMHO one need own only 3 games
D&D for fantasy
V&V for super heros
GURPS everything else

Wastelander75
07-18-2007, 02:25 PM
I am looking at using GURPS to do a Post-apoc game how hard is it to do this?

Moritz
07-18-2007, 03:06 PM
It's generic and universal. You can do anything with it. Post-Apoc would fit right in, especially since there is even a post-apoc supplement for the system.

Wastelander75
07-19-2007, 02:01 PM
Really?!?! I didn't know that.I was thinking of maybe running the Fallout game in GURPS and if it has a post-apoc setting that might help out aswell.

Holocron
08-08-2007, 02:23 PM
Hehe, interesting issues you ran into there fmitchell, I used to have some of those same problems with my players. I primarily know gurps 3rd edition, but my cousin has the 4th edition core rulebook so I've started looking through it and integrating some of the stuff in there. For example, I like that attributes no longer cost double pts to increase after you start playing, and they've added a few interesting advantages. I still like the old version of eidetic memory though that allows you to get a discount on mental skills etc... I don't really have time for gaming these days though, so I haven't put a lot of effort into working through the whole thing and figuring out what I like and plan to use.

I always thought Gurps was awesome for a fantasy setting. I used to spend time writing stats for all my NPCs too only to have them get killed in the first few rounds of the fight, so instead I just keep vague impressions of my NPCs in my mind, like approximate strength, health and skill levels and any known spells, and a basic image of their equipment.

Gurps IS a pretty complicated system, so to avoid getting outdone by the players you do need to be just as familier with the rules, if not MORE familier than they are. Definitely read over each the spells in magic at least once so you know whats out there and what abilities the players will have by getting access to certain spells. I usually don't have a problem allowing players to choose whatever spells they want unless it would be stuff I don't want them to have access to or wouldn't make sense in our game (technology and radiation magic, time and dimension travelling magic, and some necromatic spells)

I actually had a player who had learned the steal attribute spells keep a low profile and successfully use the steal attribute spells several times, and actually managed to almost max out all his attributes at 20...

As for getting outsmarted by the players, or foiled by unexpected use of their spells... don't forget that there are methods of magical protection if they're sneaking into somewhere important. Maybe someone who regularly works on the other side of the door is also a powerful mage, or at least hired one to put magical protection in place, such as a pentagram to prevent magic from being used in that area or maybe they even permanently drained the mana from the area around the walls so that there is an actual "wall" of no mana... that would be a pretty expensive method of security, but depending on what they're trying to protect, it'd be worth it. If its no big deal, I'd just go ahead and let them teleport or shape earth to move the wall etc. Remember, that drains them of some energy, so they won't have as much energy to cast in a potentially upcoming fight.

One thing that I've found that can help deal with mages that are getting too good for their own good is that they've usually invested most of their points into IQ, magery and spells, so they're physically weaker than most fighter types. This makes them vulnerable to physical attacks, so if you need to you can overwhelm them with normal thugs. Magical "dodges" like iron arm, blink and phase can only be used once in a turn and takes up their spell use, so they pretty much have to rely on dodging and parrying, which they're a lot less likely to be good at. Give the bad guys a few good mages to counter balance the magical advantage and you can beat them anytime. Casting spells also takes time, so unless they're casting from a position of complete protection, they'll be acting slower than their non-magical adversaries. Even being outnumbered by merely 2 to 1 unimpressive thugs should give a group of mages a pretty hard time.

dar
10-01-2007, 11:31 PM
Huge GURPS fan here. I have no special dislike of the skills based magic system, though I'm really starting to like the idea of a powers based magic system.

Waiting for thaumatology to get a look at other alternatives.

4e is cool.

Digital Arcanist
10-02-2007, 12:14 AM
I play in a 4th edition cinematic campaign based on a present-day Earth. So far everything goes power-wise.

The premise is that the characters run a paranormal investigation firm and are uncovering plots within the city we live in. We of course aren't equipped to handle the problems and action ensues.

I play a washed-up superhero with mediocre powers. I was abducted by aliens and had parts of my body replaced with alien crystals. I gained a lot of new abilities from the crystal as well as a chip on my shoulder the size of Everest.

Holocron
10-02-2007, 06:56 PM
Interesting, I'm not familier with the "powers" magic concept... unless you're talking about using powers from a gurps "supers" type campaign for fantasy use. I've heard of that, so basically all your abilities are advantages instead of skills. Is that what you're talking about?

An advantage to that would be not having to track mana or energy usage when you used your abilities, but I find the point cost too prohibitive, and its more like your powers come from semi-divine origin than that you "learned" magic. I think you guys must be talking about something else, let me know what the basics of how the powers based magic works are.

Thanks

Drohem
11-27-2007, 04:35 PM
I played GURPS 3rd Edition for years. I love the system, although it breaks down at high point levels. My group played with it for years before they moved on back to D&D when WotC produced the d20 System.

My wife bought me the beginning 4th edition books, but alas, I couldn't get the group back into GURPS. The dynamic shifted away from GURPS and it's a thing of the past for them.

I always like Yrth because of its historical interface. I like the concept of the Banestorm by the Dark Elves.

ZebulonW
08-29-2008, 09:54 PM
Have been running GURPS 3e for several years. Last game was a group of scavengers in the RIFTS world doing salvage on a Morrow Project base. There were ShadowRun overtones what with corp headhunters hiring them to recover stuff, then double crossing them when they brought it back. Then the party going in to steal it back & sell it to somebody else. Point here is GURPS could adapt to the RIFTS world very easily without any GURPS/RIFTS genre books. All we had was the RIFTS/MorrowProject/ShadowRun stuff. The players wanted some or all of the game worlds, but didn't like any of the systems.

The players built their characters with limited input from me (max levels on stats & skills) and total points available as well as tech level limits per the game world. We used a computer Char Gen. Matching character skill & stat maxes to genre is important. GM determination of max levels on character skills & stats prevents a lot of problems like snarky mages and doomtrooper types.

Combat was simple. Assess the situation, determine a mod to the roll and have the player try for it. Ranged combat usually lasted less than 5min per battle. Granted I was working with experienced players, but they actually took longer as they'd plan their moves more carefully, searching for cover, reloading, arguing. Combat order was by MOVE score varied by wounds and actions.
One guy aimed for a round to get a bonus to hit. One got lightly wounded and dropped 2 spots on the combat order.
Armour bonus to hiding behind a car door plus a minus to be hit (unless the shooter had a really BIG gun to shoot thru with).

Ran a Deadlands type western (they done the books for it now, but I didn't have them) with out any problems either. LOTS of shooting, burning, looting, etc. The players had NO GURPS experience. Same rules as above. Same results.

Funny thing is, I didn't like GURPS when I started RPGing. I prefered D&D or RQ. What hooked me was their great genre books. I used them for every system and slowly slid into using the mechanics as I had so many of them.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
08-30-2008, 01:03 AM
Havent played GURPS since its first release. I would love to play in a GURPS campaign if ever i find a game near enough for me to travel to. I'll continue to look.

Thoth-Amon

Valdar
09-02-2008, 12:23 PM
I stopped playing GURPS when 3e came out and the group went over to it. I picked up the Characters and Space books for 4th ed, and they look good, but as has been commented before, it's a drink from the firehose- the GM will need to go through the books line by line and determine what the players can and can't have.

Arch Lich Thoth-Amon
09-02-2008, 12:55 PM
Havent played GURPS since its first release. I would love to play in a GURPS campaign if ever i find a game near enough for me to travel to. I'll continue to look.

Thoth-Amon
Updates...

Success! Found a player that is big on GURPS Traveller. Getting a game started soon. Looking forward to the experience. No doubt it will be great.

Thoth-Amon

nijineko
09-02-2008, 09:00 PM
i'm very fond of gurps. especially supers, but that's only because i played it the most, belike. i've played a huge range of gurps 3e products, and still touch base with it now and again. i wouldn't mind getting back into it, someday. =D

in response to an earlier comment: it's not so much that system breaks down, it's more that most people simply don't know how to run a high-point game and keep it challenging and fun for all. high-powered games are a specially difficult challenge for everyone.

Holocron
09-03-2008, 02:39 AM
Gurps is pretty cool, especially if you have a good group and GM. My friends and I had a great long standing Gurps Fantasy campaign in high school and into college summers...

Never played supers much, so all of our characters started around 100 pts, a few went up to 150... but that was the exception. I had a few interesting NPCs that were pretty high point value. They weren't exceptionally deadly compared to the players, but they were fun for the players to hang out with because they had a lot of points in interesting and unusual personality traits...

I imagine you could give players high pt characters and still keep the action under control if you put certain restrictions on how they spent their pts... maybe a limit on pts spendable on attributes, wealth, and skills when first starting.... My brother and I once talked about a campaign where the players would be high ranking lords, so they would have a lot of points in social skills and advantages. They'd still have combat ability of course, but they'd be in more leadership roles than super hero position, and would definitely still be mortal... there's ways to do it.

nijineko
09-06-2008, 05:42 PM
i've played all the way up to 1000 point super heroes. full blown, knock down, drag out, no holds barred epic super heroic combat. =D it's lots of fun. but then i've always said that it's the people you play with, not the system that really matters.

Bearfoot_Adam
09-13-2008, 01:05 PM
I'm in the middle of creating a GURPS 4th fantasy campaign. I am looking forward to posting my ideas as soon as I get some regular Internet access.

Grr I'm not a fan of cross country moves at the moment

Omegaman
12-02-2008, 08:25 PM
I'm interested to hear what you're doing Bearfoot, I am doing a Fantasy game myself right now. Almost ready to get it off the ground.

trechriron
12-03-2008, 07:03 PM
GURPS GOOD(except for fantasy and Supers)
...

I believe that 4e fixed a lot of the supers, fantasy, high points problems people have had with 3e. Also, combat moves smoother and faster. Also, check out the new Power-Ups, Action Exploits, and the Dungeon Fantasy series on e23. The new Supers release might also convince you otherwise... :D

---------------

I am gearing up for a 4e game; pulpy modern science fantasy conspiracy horror collage ala Hellboy, Conspiracy X, Harry Potter, Shadow Chasers (modern d20 setting), smashed together. One of those serial numbers filed off things. :D I am going to put the whole thing online on my web site. Been a little "writers blocked" lately, but I will get there.

I have used 4e for Dune (player) and Traveller (custom setting tweak - GM). We used basic combat with some advanced options (like you can target hit locations) and it moved WAY faster than 3e. Deceptive attacks, feints, hit locations, and some minis with a table mat helped considerably. Of course, combats go better for me using minis anyway, so that was not surprising.

I prefer 4e over 3e by huge giant leaps and bounds. Way better system. Things are more consistent, explained better, work better together, and make more sense.

Combat is something the players HAVE to be actively engaged in to win. If you sit there and just trade blows, it will get boring (and take too long). With some game systems you are rewarded for describing cool maneuvers, etc. In GURPS 4e, you have some great generic ones, like deceptive attack, that not only help in the narrative but give you a serious advantage as well. Not TOO much detail as many complain, but a balanced amount. Also, you can start with Lite or Basic combat and build from there. No need to jump right in with all options. Now, as Sean Punch (as Kromm) on the GURPS forums explains, having less options will make the combats longer. Trading blows with no tactics to overcoming your opponents weaknesses becomes a tedious back-and-forth with the hope of landing a lucky blow. I personally would take the time to learn the advanced options (maybe another 20 pages?). Also, this combat system SMOKES d20, and the system has enough detail to support character actions (sure you can do that, here's the rules...) and alleviate much of that "but I used to be a brain surgeon and that's not how that works" crap.

Cinematic game? Well, there are some systems that are abstract and may support that style better for some groups. Here is my take on it (something I have been searching for). The base system should start realistic and gritty and then there should be some meta-game mechanic that helps characters AVOID the reality. Character points and the cinematic options turned on do just that. You MAY have taken a 24 HP devastating attack that would have stunned you, made you suffer from shock, and most likely pass out BUT, you avoided it with your heroic Mojo. I like that better. Also, if characters CAN do super-capable things then their abilities should represent that. In the pulps or super hero genre, not everyone is extraordinary. If the characters are better, then the points should show it.

I have a broad collection of 3e books, but I use them generally as reference material and idea generators. The material in the 4e collection would give you everything you needed to run a DETAILED campaign for years. The TECH series are amazing, I can't imagine you not finding stuff in there to use for any setting home-brewed or not.

One thing I wish GURPS 4e had was a concise, 250+ page, hardcover, Bestiary. There is an online Wiki somewhere that catalogs all the "monsters and beasts" with page references, but it would be cool to have one book. The Creatures of the Night series on e23 is well done however, so with the various references and e23, you have much to work with.

Support for the game is awesome. The forums are an encyclopedia of rules questions and ideas. The FAQ is regularly maintained. They aren't pushing out piles of hardcovers BUT they have piles of stuff on e23, several of them made it to POD status and you can now buy in your FLGS (Mysteries, Supers, Spaceships...).

Now, I have supported other game systems like Savage Worlds and True20. Both systems are fun, but for extended campaign play I have several problems. SW was too simple. Characters start looking alike and I didn't have the customization I wanted in the system. For pickup games at a convention, it's my go to system. Otherwise, I prefer more crunch. True20 is generally a d20 game and I am really not digging on levels and classes anymore (True20 does tone this down, but didn't ditch it all together). So, I have started digging in deep and learning GURPS. I intend to be an expert and this will be my "house" system for games I run.

What about Morality? Supernatural Taint? Dark side? Aspects? Yada Yada? I have been playing now for 25+ years and I can't get people to use them with any effect or enthusiasm. Sure, they will flinch when you hand them a Dark Side point, but it doesn't change their decisions. Same with Morality from World of Darkness. Aspects (from FATE) lose most of my players. I guess I am old school in that regard. I need a solid game engine and the rest is roleplaying. :D

I do intend to drop in a concept like that. I will ask the players for at least one goal and one motivation. They can only spend character points to improve rolls or stave off damage in pursuit of their goal or motivation. See if that works (kind of like Riddle of Steel spiritual traits). If it don't take, then I at least I have a solid system as my foundation. :biggrin:

\end GURPS rambling...

Webhead
12-03-2008, 07:45 PM
...Aspects (from FATE) lose most of my players...

Which is a real tragedy IMHO. If I may be so bold and presumptiuous, Aspects are the probably the most mind-blowing and exciting concept I've ever read in an RPG since I started gaming.

Unfortunately, their design and implementation requires such a different way of thinking for the more "traditional" gamer that many of them can't quite unlearn the things that they expect from a rules system and get stuck. "You have abilities X, Y and Z and they are quantified by values A, B and C." That's not how Aspects work and thus you can't understand them with that line of thought.

I've had players who struggled with the concepts of Aspects too, and it is so difficult for me, seeing how inspiring and liberating Aspects could be to the game, if only I could help my players "grokk" them.

I love Aspects and would happily incorporate them into any game system that I ran, if I could get players to really understand how positively revolutionary they could be to the game. Oh, to be progressive and yet unappreciated...

But then, I'm not much of a "crunch" gamer. I lean more in the direction of minimalism. Give me a simple, abstracted foundation and make everything else truly optional in the sense that the game is not built to presume that I use any of it. I would rather have to add things to the game to make it more complex if that's what I wanted than have to subtract things to make it less so, which is more difficult. But that's me as a GM: Give me simple and let me add to it what I want.

Sorry. Brain started churning there. Back to GURPS...

Bearfoot_Adam
12-03-2008, 08:10 PM
I'm interested to hear what you're doing Bearfoot, I am doing a Fantasy game myself right now. Almost ready to get it off the ground.

I'll hopefully have more updates soon over on the campaign resources forum in the fantasy section. As of now I have decided on using Unisystem instead of GURPS. I really like GURPS and I want to play it and would like to run it but I just don't have enough experience with it, which is none except for reading the books. The books have been very helpful in designing my setting.

Unisystem I feel will lead to a smoother gaming process. I'll be using the Angel Demon Creation guides to come up with races, and a variant of C.J. Carella's witchcraft for magic, since the book is free to download. As far as play itself, I love the unisystem. It's fast paced and easy to learn. I'll be missing some of the neat things that GURPS provides but I think it will be OK.

Webhead
12-03-2008, 08:27 PM
...Unisystem I feel will lead to a smoother gaming process. I'll be using the Angel Demon Creation guides to come up with races, and a variant of C.J. Carella's witchcraft for magic, since the book is free to download. As far as play itself, I love the unisystem. It's fast paced and easy to learn. I'll be missing some of the neat things that GURPS provides but I think it will be OK.

Sorry for the further thread drift, but I had to jump on this one as well. I'm a big advocate of Unisystem as well. Very simple yet adaptable system. I also used the Angel RPG's Demon Creation system to adapt creatures from the Dresden Files series. I really, really want to run a Dresden Files campaign using Unisystem and have already done most of the necessary homebrewing. Now just to find some interested players...

MortonStromgal
12-03-2008, 11:40 PM
I would really love to see a 3rd party publisher come up with a setting book powered by gurps and hopefully containing a lifepath character creation system. I would love that.

Valdar
12-04-2008, 10:09 AM
I've got a plan in the back of my head to run/play GURPS after my current game wraps up (that is, getting my D&D 4e game through level 30). Ideally Space, but Space means different things to different people, so it would have to be a specific Space (Trek, Star Wars, Dune, etc.)