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Kilrex
03-07-2008, 02:01 PM
I have never liked the way skills worked in 3.5 and am trying to come up with a way to make them better. Why isn't Swim a class skill for everyone? Why can't a mage Perform (Magic Tricks) or fighter Perform (Knife Toss) to impress a crowd? Just to name a few.

Ideas so far:
1) Expand list of skills available to all classes and maybe add a skill point a lvl to each char.

2) Get extra skills based on all stats, not just Intel. Get an extra skill point for Str modifier equal to 1/2 modifier bonus rounded up, to be spent on Str related skills. E.G. +1 or +2 Str modifier would give 1 skill point to be spent on Climb, Swim, etc. Only sucks for Con, which has Concentration. If this is used, might need to lower skill points per class.

3) Racial skill lists. E.G. Elves get Handle Animal and Survival as racial skills, Dwarves get Craft (Blacksmith) and Knowledge (Dungeoneering), etc.

4) Allow characters with Profession skills to get synergy bonus to other skill checks. E.G. Profession (Sailor) with 5 ranks gets bonus of +1 to Balance, Use Rope, Knowledge (Weather)/(Nature-Sea) and Climb. At every 5 more ranks, the bonus increases by +1 (rank 10, +2/rank 15, +3).

Riftwalker
03-07-2008, 02:17 PM
Sounds good to me, though #2 increases the complexity somewhat.

I'm playing in a campaign now that uses the following homebrewed modification to the skill system:

- Spot and Listen are class-skills for everyone.
- All cross-class skills only cost 1 point (instead of 2). The limits on cross-class skills still exist.

DrAwkward
03-07-2008, 03:55 PM
I have never liked the way skills worked in 3.5 and am trying to come up with a way to make them better. Why isn't Swim a class skill for everyone? Why can't a mage Perform (Magic Tricks) or fighter Perform (Knife Toss) to impress a crowd? Just to name a few.

Ideas so far:
1) Expand list of skills available to all classes and maybe add a skill point a lvl to each char.

2) Get extra skills based on all stats, not just Intel. Get an extra skill point for Str modifier equal to 1/2 modifier bonus rounded up, to be spent on Str related skills. E.G. +1 or +2 Str modifier would give 1 skill point to be spent on Climb, Swim, etc. Only sucks for Con, which has Concentration. If this is used, might need to lower skill points per class.

3) Racial skill lists. E.G. Elves get Handle Animal and Survival as racial skills, Dwarves get Craft (Blacksmith) and Knowledge (Dungeoneering), etc.

4) Allow characters with Profession skills to get synergy bonus to other skill checks. E.G. Profession (Sailor) with 5 ranks gets bonus of +1 to Balance, Use Rope, Knowledge (Weather)/(Nature-Sea) and Climb. At every 5 more ranks, the bonus increases by +1 (rank 10, +2/rank 15, +3).

1) sounds good as long as you are fair to the monsters, too.

2) You kinda are already since you get to add your stat bonus to the roll, no?

3) totally in favor. This makes more sense to me than racial bonuses to skills.

4) Agree - profession is kinda weak on its own. Spycraft had a neat way of doing scaled synergy bonuses.

upidstay
03-07-2008, 04:11 PM
So make them a house rule and do it. I've been tweaking the rules to fit the way I like them for years. Just write them down so play is consistant, make sure everybody agrees.

Kilrex
03-07-2008, 04:20 PM
All cross-class skills only cost 1 point (instead of 2). The limits on cross-class skills still exist.

Ooh, I like the cross class idea.


1) sounds good as long as you are fair to the monsters, too.

2) You kinda are already since you get to add your stat bonus to the roll, no?

3) totally in favor. This makes more sense to me than racial bonuses to skills.

4) Agree - profession is kinda weak on its own. Spycraft had a neat way of doing scaled synergy bonuses.

1) of course

2) i see your point

3)yes

4)how does Spycraft use 'em?

DrAwkward
03-07-2008, 06:50 PM
4)how does Spycraft use 'em?

I...don't remember. All I know is that it was pretty smooth.

I *think* it was +1 per 5 ranks (max +5), and synergy bonsues from different skills do not stack - you use the best one.

Spycraft mucked around with skills quite a bit, since it is more of a "skill based" genre. Worth checking out if you aren't happy with 3.5 skills straight out of the bottle.

nijineko
03-09-2008, 05:19 AM
the feat "able learner" already makes all cross class skills cost one point.

i'd say just give everyone a starting package based on race/region of origion for free-call it the "campaign package". and put your house rules in that. add x,y,z class skills and/or ranks in skills, plus blah blah blah. issue potentially solved-and simply too.

we do this sort of thing all the time in our campaigns. for example, my dm thinks that sorcerers are underpowered. so he gives all sorcerers one extra spell known per spell level and the eschew materials feat for free.

dragonstar is another good example. they have 'training' and 'education' packages that have prereqs and grant specific bonuses.

Aleolus
03-09-2008, 11:00 AM
Actually, some races already have skills that are always considered class skills, even going by what Wizards has put out. For example, the Glimmerskin Halflings, from Races of the Dragon, always treat Heal as a class skill, regardless of the class they are progressing in. Adding some to the core classes seems reasonable to me.

MysticalForest
03-09-2008, 02:36 PM
IWhy can't a mage Perform (Magic Tricks) or fighter Perform (Knife Toss) to impress a crowd?They already can with the Perform skill.

GBVenkman
03-09-2008, 07:03 PM
I agree. 3.5 skills do suck.

There's way too many. I like what saga did by combining many and reducing.

Kilrex
03-10-2008, 07:22 AM
Someone sent me the following:

Skill Groups replace set class skills.
Players have access to one skill group per two skill points they gain per level.
Players also gain one bonus skill per point of intelligence bonus.
A character can instead choose to gain bonus skills equal to a different modifier (such as Dexterity) but must then choose only skills that have that key ability.
If a skill belongs to more than one group, the character's ranks in that skill stack regardless of which group they are advancing it within.
All characters have access to the Mundane skill group.

The Skill Groups are as follows:

Mundane
Appraise
Profession
Craft

Dexterous
Escape Artist
Acrobatics
Use Rope
Disable Device

Espionage
Disable Device
Disguise
Stealth
Larceny

Sensory
Awareness
Search
Sense Motive

Social
Influence
Gather Information
Perform
Knowledge: Local

Martial
Athletics
Ride
Intimidate
Martial Lore

Academic
Knowledge: Architecture, Dungeoneering, Geography, History, Nobility
Speak Language
Decipher Script

Sufficiency
Survival
Handle Animal
Heal
Knowledge: Nature

Arcane
Spellcraft
Knowledge: Arcane
Concentration
Use Magic Device

Psionics
Psicraft
Autohypnosis
Use Psionic Device
Concentration
Knowledge: Psionics

Divine
Spellcraft
Concentration
Knowledge: Religion
Knowledge: The Planes

Acrobatics combines Balance and Tumble.
Stealth combines Hide and Move Silently.
Larceny combines Sleight of Hand and Forgery.
Awareness combines Spot and Listen.
Influence combines Bluff and Diplomacy.
Athletics combines Climb, Jump, and Swim.

Those skills that are not combined represent, in my opinion, unique enough capabilities to merit their own skill.

tesral
03-10-2008, 09:13 AM
I agree. I think the cross class skill system sucks.

First, I give every class the same number of skill points, and lots of, 5+int bonus per level and 5+int x 4 at first. 3e makes the skills important, and really rapes some classes in the skills department.

Second I keep the level +3 restriction on skill levels. I want a variety of skills, not a super specialists. Remember specialization is for insects.

Third, I ditch the whole concept of cross class skills. Why would being fighter or a cleric make it harder to learn one skill over another? I return the Thieving skills to a catagoy of their own and give the Rogue characters a seperate buy system for their class feature skills. I add two class feature skills as well, Disguise and Forgery.

Fourth I reorder the skills into categories I thought made sense and add many more. Professions, Social Arts, Scholarly arts, Street Arts, Military Arts. I will accept a skill and description from anyone. I do some splitting among the knowledge skills. 'ology for example. zoology, botany, geography and so forth.

Fifth I created a series of 9 for 5 skill packs that only first level PCs can take as well as a number of skill freebie packs for various races and or locational circumstances. You are a middle class kid from Seahaven? You can get the Eyrian Education pack (free), and the Middle Class Urban pack (9 for 5)

nijineko
03-10-2008, 10:41 AM
sounds about what my preference is, your fifth option. i also frequently boost the nerfed classes' skill points.

InfoStorm
03-11-2008, 03:13 PM
I've done similar, but not as drastic, things for one of my game settings. Every players picked a nationality, and that nationality gave them 1-3 skills that were always counted as class skills. I didn't give out more SP, but then again, this was back in the 3.0 era.

Drohem
03-11-2008, 03:18 PM
I guess I'm in the minority: I have no problem with the skill system as written.

Kilrex
03-11-2008, 04:23 PM
I guess I'm in the minority: I have no problem with the skill system as written.

Cleric, Paladin, Sorcerer and occasionally Fighter suck for SP. They all 2+Int and if I have to choose, Int is normally at the bottom of important stats for those classes. It really sucks to get 1 SP in Concentration and a rotating choice of Heal, Spellcraft, Knowledge-Religion, or Knowledge-Planes for the second SP when playing as a Cleric. Wis and Cha are most needed, followed by Con, then choice of Str or Dex depending on how I want to play.

Drohem
03-11-2008, 04:48 PM
Hey, that's cool. I disagree. I think that the skill point distribution works well as written.

tesral
03-11-2008, 04:55 PM
Sometime the skill descriptions themselves are, well stupid to a WTF moment. Example: CRAFT.
Creating Masterwork Items: You can make a masterwork item—a weapon, suit of armor, shield, or tool that conveys a bonus on its use through its exceptional craftsmanship, not through being magical. To create a masterwork item, you create the masterwork component as if it were a separate item in addition to the standard item. The masterwork component has its own price (300 gp for a weapon or 150 gp for a suit of armor or a shield) and a Craft DC of 20. Once both the standard component and the masterwork component are completed, the masterwork item is finished. Note: The cost you pay for the masterwork component is one-third of the given amount, just as it is for the cost in raw materials. WTF!?!? A masterwork is the equivalent of the UL seal of approval and you have to make you own seal? I'm blowing a vase, and I have add a masterwork part to make it a masterwork?

At best this is poorly thought out, and worst it is plain stupid. A Masterwork in the original meaning was a work that a journeyman made to prove his mastery of the craft. He presented his masterwork to the guild, usually something intricate and showy. They judge his work and if good enough he was declared a Master Craftsman.

AISI a master work is the work of a Master. It requires no extra money or materials, it requires the skill of that expert Craftsman. Ergo a masterwork must succeed on a DC of 35. To even touch that you need to be looking at a skill of +15, a minimum of +11 with an 18 in the vital ability. With the Level +3 rule that means a Level 8 craftsman. You find one of those in every blacksmith shop.

Unless you do as I do and a Commoner (called General class in my game) has the class feature of unlimited advancement in one skill. They can throw everything at one skill after first level. So you can get a third level blacksmith who is a master smith, and not much else.

From my PHB:

Creating Masterwork Items: You can make a masterwork item by meeting the masterwork DC of 35. All materials must be of the best available. It is possible to take 20 for a master work, and the usual x10 expenditure of time over the minimum required, IF you take 20. To make a masterwork item that takes days or weeks to make the check for the masterwork will be the final one. A failed masterwork is still a very good item, but not the exceptional one desired. Every check during crafting that exceeds 35 will add to the luster and value of the finished item. Add half again to the value for each roll that exceeds 35 during construction.

Kilrex
03-11-2008, 05:07 PM
AISI a master work is the work of a Master. It requires no extra money or materials, it requires the skill of that expert Craftsman. Ergo a masterwork must succeed on a DC of 35. To even touch that you need to be looking at a skill of +15, a minimum of +11 with an 18 in the vital ability. With the Level +3 rule that means a Level 8 craftsman. You find one of those in every blacksmith shop.


Don't forget Skill Focus feat for a +3 and Masterwork tools give a +2 to the check. And assuming they 'Take 20', that leaves 10 more points split between skill ranks and ability mods, giving a commoner probably has only a plus 1 or 2 at most for ability mod, means 8th or 9th lvl.

Rule Nazi Edit: taking 20 means it takes 20 times as long (PHB p65)

tesral
03-11-2008, 05:55 PM
Don't forget Skill Focus feat for a +3 and Masterwork tools give a +2 to the check. And assuming they 'Take 20', that leaves 10 more points split between skill ranks and ability mods, giving a commoner probably has only a plus 1 or 2 at most for ability mod, means 8th or 9th lvl.

Commoner doesn't necessaily mean low stats. While I don't tend to give common folk high stats if it is a highly skilled craftsman I'll give them at minimum a 16 in the appropriate stat. I don't use feats. And until you make you masterwork and your masterwork tools you don't get that either. You can't walk into the store and buy tools. Most craftsman have to either make them or have them made.

MortonStromgal
03-14-2008, 10:28 AM
I don't particularly like level limits on skills, that your INT matters for skill pts, and that there are things like hide and move silently when it could be stealth (yeah yeah I know its a throw back to older editions) but that said the skill system works ok IMHO. Plus this is the first edition with skills and not just proficiencies so I expect it to be a little wonky. I'm still shocked at how much BRP is in 3.X (just look at the skill list and that INT is your skill points), frankly picking an old (but good) system as model for what you want to do with your new edition seams silly.

The Wandering Bard
03-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Yeah I guess I never really had any problems with the skill point system for 3.5. it always made me think harder and more towards the future for my skills. if I thought I was going to need to take a few climb ranks and use ranks over intimidate I would take more of them. it made my character more unique.

on the downside, I always thought that the cleric and the sorcerer got totally hosed with the skill points. I mean a caster normally needs at least 2 skill points for Spellcraft and concentration, Plus Heal and Knowledge (religion, planes, arcana) for the cleric and things like knowledge arcana, move siliently and hide for a sorcerer (i always gave a few ranks to mine anyways to help them stay out of combat until the fighters could get in.)

well thats my 2 cents. :)

tesral
03-16-2008, 08:46 PM
Yeah I guess I never really had any problems with the skill point system for 3.5. it always made me think harder and more towards the future for my skills. if I thought I was going to need to take a few climb ranks and use ranks over intimidate I would take more of them. it made my character more unique.

on the downside, I always thought that the cleric and the sorcerer got totally hosed with the skill points. I mean a caster normally needs at least 2 skill points for Spellcraft and concentration, Plus Heal and Knowledge (religion, planes, arcana) for the cleric and things like knowledge arcana, move siliently and hide for a sorcerer (i always gave a few ranks to mine anyways to help them stay out of combat until the fighters could get in.)

well thats my 2 cents. :)

Non INT casters in general get hosed on the skills. They need them as much as every other class, but do not get same. As long as spot, search, and listen are skills, and you have to have concentration, and spellcraft. I've spent five a level and I only get two. The Mage is covered as he will doubtless have at least a +3 on INT or a +4.

Skills were suppose to help you differentiate one character from another, but they made a hand full of skills dirt necessary and didn't give out enough skill points to anyone except rogues.

Damn near every fighter takes the same feats, you have to have the same skills. What is different except you have more numbers to keep track of?

I am finding the skills the most frustrating part of playing a 3.5 non INT caster.

GBVenkman
03-29-2008, 09:35 PM
I started to multiclass for this reason, even in Saga SW.

Inquisitor Tremayne
03-29-2008, 09:48 PM
I HATE the skill point system!

The only reason is because all the classes loose out on skill points except the rogue.

The way Tesral has handled them is how I think it should be RAW.

Consider your ideas stolen for any 3.5 game I run!

RealmsDM
03-30-2008, 06:53 AM
I do like that Paizo has condensed & renamed several skills. I didn't read into detail, but I hope they changed advancement as well... :confused:

tesral
03-30-2008, 01:27 PM
I HATE the skill point system!
The only reason is because all the classes loose out on skill points except the rogue.
The way Tesral has handled them is how I think it should be RAW.
Consider your ideas stolen for any 3.5 game I run!

Consider it a gift. They make the skills important in 3x and then get super stingy with them.

I have about finished the draft chapter for skills in my 2.8 system. I have a few more skill to detail that are not in the 3.x books and done.

I like skills.


Gold-bricking: (WIS)
The skill to do nothing without bringing attention to the fact you are doing nothing. It is also used to not be noticed when extra assignments come up, or onerous assignments are being handed out.
Check: Gold-bricking is an opposed check against the superior's Spot check. Success means you avoid the undesired duty. Failure can mean anything from just having to do the work to getting extra duty for laying about.
Try Again: Not if you know what is good for you.
Synergy: 5 ranks in Gold-bricking add a +2 to Bluff attempts or to "hide in plan sight" among a group of like dressed people.

upidstay
03-31-2008, 06:20 AM
Sorry guys, but, in general, I like the skill system. Much better than the old non-weapon proficiency system.
It makes sense to me that it be based on intelliegence. The smarter you are, the more you learn.

As far as how hard it is to make a master work item? Ummm, it's supposed to be hard to make one. Hence the "master" part. A friend of mine is an apprentice plumber, and it's taken him YEARS, 1000's of hours learning his trade before he is no longer an apprentice.

An armorer, for example, probably spends a decade learning their trade. Doing nothing but making armor, not out adventuring, slaying monsters, learning to cast a new spell, etc. There's only so many hours in a day to learn things. Also, is there a qualified teacher to instruct you in your chosen skill? Will they be willing to teach you? Will they put up with your character up and leaving to go explore that dungeon?

tesral
03-31-2008, 07:03 AM
Sorry guys, but, in general, I like the skill system. Much better than the old non-weapon proficiency system.
It makes sense to me that it be based on intelliegence. The smarter you are, the more you learn.

As far as how hard it is to make a master work item? Ummm, it's supposed to be hard to make one. Hence the "master" part. A friend of mine is an apprentice plumber, and it's taken him YEARS, 1000's of hours learning his trade before he is no longer an apprentice.

An armorer, for example, probably spends a decade learning their trade. Doing nothing but making armor, not out adventuring, slaying monsters, learning to cast a new spell, etc. There's only so many hours in a day to learn things. Also, is there a qualified teacher to instruct you in your chosen skill? Will they be willing to teach you? Will they put up with your character up and leaving to go explore that dungeon?

I agree, A masterwork traditionally was the item a Journeyman presented to the guild as a proof that he had mastered his craft. Many such survive in the ancient guilds of Europe. Intricate and beautiful pieces every one.

The part about masterworks that is wonky is the whole "Masterwork part" bull. As I have been working up the skills for 2.8 I saw that and the bull detector went off loud and clear. A masterwork part? Masterwork is the UL seal and you have to make your own? What are they smoking? As far as I am concerned a masterwork costs no more in materials, it is the hand of the master than makes the difference. That is why it is a master work, not an I spent extra money work.

I think the system is fine, it needs tweaking. It is too stingy on the skill points. To that end I tweaked same. I moved Rouge and Bard skills back into the class feature realm and gave them a separate points track. I gave every class 5+Int x4 at first level and 5 per level there after.

Farcaster
04-03-2008, 06:39 PM
Sorry guys, but, in general, I like the skill system. Much better than the old non-weapon proficiency system.
It makes sense to me that it be based on intelliegence. The smarter you are, the more you learn.

I 100% agree that the skills system in 3.5 is much, much, much better than the optional non-weapon proficiency system we had in 2nd edition. And I don't have any real big qualms with the 3rd edition system. But, I do have to point out that intelligence isn't the only attribute that helps you pickup skills more quickly. The skill point system covers a lot of physical skills as well, such as jump, climb, etc. I'd argue that being more intelligent doesn't help me pickup climbing any faster. Dexterity and strength sure would though.

Personally, I'd favor there being at least two skill point pools -- one for mental oriented skills and one for physical. One pool would get bonus points for intelligence/wisdom/charisma, and one pool would get bonus points for strength/dexterity/constitution.

tesral
04-04-2008, 08:45 AM
Personally, I'd favor there being at least two skill point pools -- one for mental oriented skills and one for physical. One pool would get bonus points for intelligence/wisdom/charisma, and one pool would get bonus points for strength/dexterity/constitution.

So you would divide the skills by mental and physical. How would you decide the bonus? An average of your physical or mental stats? That would suck for the guy with a 18 INT and 9 WIS.

You do have a point about some of the physical skills.

nijineko
04-05-2008, 09:36 PM
i think that is why they factor in the attributes into the skill bonus total. however, i always wondered what con had to do with concentration, other than the first three letters. really now, reading the accounts of holocaust survivors who used concentration to survive the camps (seriously, no pun intended in any way), it was reported as a mental activity rather than anything to do with physical.

Inquisitor Tremayne
04-08-2008, 10:08 AM
i think that is why they factor in the attributes into the skill bonus total. however, i always wondered what con had to do with concentration, other than the first three letters. really now, reading the accounts of holocaust survivors who used concentration to survive the camps (seriously, no pun intended in any way), it was reported as a mental activity rather than anything to do with physical.

I concur. I always thought concentration should fall into the realm of Wisdom at least.

I see it as mental endurance.

upidstay
04-09-2008, 05:33 AM
If you look at how Concentration is used, Constitution makes sense. Cons score is a measure of your physical toughness. You use Concentration to see if you can ignore the pain of an attack to continue casting a spell.

Fighters get less skill points because it's assumed that they spend most of their time practicing with weapons, learning how to thread that needle with an arrow, put their 4th arrow into the air before the 1st has hit its mark, how to nick buttons off of a sorceress's dress with a great sword without touching the skin, etc. A mage spends all of their time meditating, learning knew spells, researching old ones, etc. A Bard spends all of his time learning new things, constantly searching for knowledge. Thieves need to have a diverse skill set to survive and stay out of prison. There are very few old stupid thieves. To my reasoning, THAT'S why the skill point systen is set up the way it is. I always used to ignore the INT score for anything but a mage. Just didn't need it. Now you do.

GBVenkman
04-11-2008, 11:07 AM
I concur. I always thought concentration should fall into the realm of Wisdom at least.

I see it as mental endurance.


I always thought that some skills should be either or when it comes to ability scores. This may confuse things though, but what ever.

I also never liked class restrictions on what skills you can take (a whole story of its own). What's to stop a agile fighter from learning how to tumble if he already has a dex of 16?

Maybe instead of class restrictions, you had ability score restrictions? Can't take tumble, hide/move silently, etc without a min. dex if it's not a class skill. This would allow non rogues to dabble into other skills if their character has the natural ability to do so. Why wouldn't a fighter with a Charisma of 14 be able to bluff or an Int of 14+ be able to train in other int based skills?? I think this would allow more cross over while still requiring a little player sacrifice.

As far as concentration goes, I think it should go into an "endurance" type of skill group which is con based. But I agree, it COULD be wis if you looked at it from a different point of view.

I'm sure 4e skills will be an improvement on 3.5 and will be glad to see some change.

Kilrex
04-11-2008, 12:16 PM
Maybe instead of class restrictions, you had ability score restrictions? Can't take tumble, hide/move silently, etc without a min. dex if it's not a class skill. This would allow non rogues to dabble into other skills if their character has the natural ability to do so. Why wouldn't a fighter with a Charisma of 14 be able to bluff or an Int of 14+ be able to train in other int based skills?? I think this would allow more cross over while still requiring a little player sacrifice.


Nice idea. Another one to Yoink!

tesral
04-12-2008, 01:18 AM
I always thought that some skills should be either or when it comes to ability scores. This may confuse things though, but what ever.

I also never liked class restrictions on what skills you can take (a whole story of its own). What's to stop a agile fighter from learning how to tumble if he already has a dex of 16?

Maybe instead of class restrictions, you had ability score restrictions? Can't take tumble, hide/move silently, etc without a min. dex if it's not a class skill. This would allow non rogues to dabble into other skills if their character has the natural ability to do so. Why wouldn't a fighter with a Charisma of 14 be able to bluff or an Int of 14+ be able to train in other int based skills?? I think this would allow more cross over while still requiring a little player sacrifice.

As far as concentration goes, I think it should go into an "endurance" type of skill group which is con based. But I agree, it COULD be wis if you looked at it from a different point of view.

I'm sure 4e skills will be an improvement on 3.5 and will be glad to see some change.

Cross class skills rather annoyed me as well. I simply dropped the cross class thing. You can try to tumble with a dex of 9, you're never going to be very good at it.

victim666
06-03-2008, 10:44 AM
If you look at how Concentration is used, Constitution makes sense. Cons score is a measure of your physical toughness. You use Concentration to see if you can ignore the pain of an attack to continue casting a spell.

Actually Concentration is used not to ignore physical pain but to shrug off the DISTRACTION of being struck. It goes the same way with loud,sudden noises or blinding flashes of light and battles raging around you.

The Lich Lord starts to cast a spell while surrounded by a wall of his skeletal minions.

The Fighter glances around then stoops to pick up the skull of a skeleton who was destroyed by the Clerics shining mace.

The Fighter roars,"heads up", and hurls the skull at the Lich distracting the Lich in completing his spell.

That wouldnt hurt a Lich but he failed his Consentration check.:)

tesral
06-03-2008, 10:47 AM
The Fighter glances around then stoops to pick up the skull of a skeleton who was destroyed by the Clerics shining mace.

The Fighter roars,"heads up", and hurls the skull at the Lich distracting the Lich in completing his spell.


You shall be visited by the imps of pun-isnment for that one.

victim666
06-03-2008, 10:51 AM
You shall be visited by the imps of pun-isnment for that one.

As long as they dont ruin my pizza's freshness.:p

tesral
06-03-2008, 10:55 AM
As long as they dont ruin my pizza's freshness.:p

They have been know to do that. :D

victim666
06-03-2008, 10:59 AM
They have been know to do that. :D

CURSE THEM ALL!!!:mad:

tesral
06-03-2008, 11:02 AM
CURSE THEM ALL!!!:mad:

They're imps dude, like, they are already cursed.

victim666
06-03-2008, 11:29 AM
They're imps dude, like, they are already cursed.

Then my revenge is complete.:D

tesral
06-03-2008, 05:12 PM
Then my revenge is complete.:D

Being imps, they like it.