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bluemoondragon
03-04-2008, 09:45 PM
Um, hi, this is sort of long and kind of confusing so please bear with me. We just started to make gestalt characters, and one of my friends is playing a lvl 13 paladin/ sorcerer. On top of that he selected as his race to be a rakshasa, who already possess the abilities of a 7th lvl sorcerer. He was wondering if it is possible for a familar to also be a special mount? If so, does he figure that creature's stats accordingly to his sorcerer or paladin lvls? Any answers would greatly be appreciated!

upidstay
03-05-2008, 06:36 AM
Holy power gaming, Batman!! That makes him Epic level or close. You say you just started???

As far as a familiar also being a special mount, I don't see why not. Both are creatures that share a special bond with their masters, far beyond the standard pet/owner. It would be up to the DM. Curious what sort of animal would want a Rakshasa riding them. Doubt if a horse would submit to having what amounts to a TIGER on their backs.

Farcaster
03-05-2008, 12:54 PM
Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar.

Considering this clause, I'd have to say that it is not possible to have a paladin's mount also be a familiar. In this case, the character would have one of each.

DrAwkward
03-05-2008, 01:25 PM
Considering this clause, I'd have to say that it is not possible to have a paladin's mount also be a familiar. In this case, the character would have one of each.

Well, gestalt = powergaming = "sure, why not". Given that we have an Evil Outsider paladin, all bets are off, no?

I'd say the Mount uses the best progression on a case-by-case basis, just as your gestalted character does.

Question, though -- how are you shoehorning Rakshanana into that gestalt build?

Is it all Paladin on one side, with the other side being Racial HD + LA + Sorceror levels?

Keeping in mind that base Rocksalsa have 7HD and 7LA making them 14th level characters on thier own. The only way around that is if he's letting you put the racial HD on one side and the LA on the other (very very cheesy!). In that case, you'd only have 12 levels left for class levels. Are you using one of the variant Rocklobsters from a different Manual?

Farcaster
03-05-2008, 02:05 PM
Well, my assumption in giving this answer was that he was using the typical alternate rules laid out for Gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) characters. I'd be wary of expanding the gestalt rules any more than they already are, were I the DM for this game.

As far as mixing in the rakshasa, the Savage Species books lays out a leveling system that you could easily use in this case. Obviously one of his first "levels" needs to be in rakshasa, and thereafter he can take one level of the Rakshasa every time he goes up in level, just as he could take a level of any other class in combination with his other two classes (paladin and sorcerer). That is how I would do it, anyway.

DrAwkward
03-05-2008, 02:37 PM
Well, my assumption in giving this answer was that he was using the typical alternate rules laid out for Gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) characters. I'd be wary of expanding the gestalt rules any more than they already are, were I the DM for this game.

As far as mixing in the rakshasa, the Savage Species books lays out a leveling system that you could easily use in this case. Obviously one of his first "levels" needs to be in rakshasa, and thereafter he can take one level of the Rakshasa every time he goes up in level, just as he could take a level of any other class in combination with his other two classes (paladin and sorcerer). That is how I would do it, anyway.

I hope you are right. Still would be a complicated character to build by the rules. How have folks been handling the Pally/monk problem? Do they just need to stick to it on that side of the gestalt, or have GMs just been waiving the restriction?

Farcaster
03-05-2008, 04:49 PM
I've never done/allowed Gestalt in my games -- although my previous group wanted to run a game under these rules badly. So, I am not sure what pally/monk problem you are talking about. Can you elaborate?

DrAwkward
03-06-2008, 10:04 AM
I've never done/allowed Gestalt in my games -- although my previous group wanted to run a game under these rules badly. So, I am not sure what pally/monk problem you are talking about. Can you elaborate?

Each class has a restriction that if you take a level in anything else, you can't go back. I was wondering any anyone felt this this restriction was any more or less of a problem under gestalt rules.

bluemoondragon
03-06-2008, 11:39 PM
I hope you are right. Still would be a complicated character to build by the rules. How have folks been handling the Pally/monk problem? Do they just need to stick to it on that side of the gestalt, or have GMs just been waiving the restriction?

Are you talking about the multiclass restrictions that a monk and a paladin faces? I've read in the Eberron Campaign Setting handbook that there are two feats, Monastic Training and Knightly Training, that allows the beforementioned classes, respectively to select one other specific class; they can freely multiclass within either without the penalties.

bluemoondragon
03-06-2008, 11:45 PM
Well, gestalt = powergaming = "sure, why not". Given that we have an Evil Outsider paladin, all bets are off, no?

I'd say the Mount uses the best progression on a case-by-case basis, just as your gestalted character does.

Question, though -- how are you shoehorning Rakshanana into that gestalt build?

Is it all Paladin on one side, with the other side being Racial HD + LA + Sorceror levels?

Keeping in mind that base Rocksalsa have 7HD and 7LA making them 14th level characters on thier own. The only way around that is if he's letting you put the racial HD on one side and the LA on the other (very very cheesy!). In that case, you'd only have 12 levels left for class levels. Are you using one of the variant Rocklobsters from a different Manual?

Well, um what does "shoehorning" mean exactly, lol :D? But to the best of my knowledge, it is paladin on one side and the other side being racial HD + LA+ sorcerer levels. To the best of my knowledge, the rakshasa is the generic variety in the monster manual.

bluemoondragon
03-06-2008, 11:48 PM
Well, these responses have been very helpful, thank you. The reason we wanted a gestalt campaign is that we have a smaller group and rather limited free time to campaign; therefore a high-powered campaign would be more interesting.

As for the rakshasa paladin, we kind of gotten the idea from Drizzt from Forgotten Realms and Sparda from the Devil May Cry series. I'm sure everyone here knows of the legendary renegade dark elf, but Sparda might be a bit more obscure :D. Anyways, Sparda was a powerful demon that decided to fight against his own kind for the sake of humanity, virtue, etc. Therefore, we got the idea of an evil outsider to play a virtuous warrior.

DrAwkward
03-07-2008, 09:56 AM
Well, um what does "shoehorning" mean exactly, lol :D? But to the best of my knowledge, it is paladin on one side and the other side being racial HD + LA+ sorcerer levels. To the best of my knowledge, the rakshasa is the generic variety in the monster manual.

A shoehorn is a device used to lever a heel into a shoe. "Shoehorning" means to try to make something fit that is a tad too big.

My question relates to the Raksasha.

One one side you can have a 13th level paladin. No prob.

On the other side you have 7 Racial HD, 7 Level Adjust...(=14) not sure how you are adding any sorceror levels to that, yet, as its already a little too high.

I ran a gestalt campaign for the same reason. Not enough players. It helps a little, and the game goes faster than if you solved the problem by having two characters each. It was a lot of fun, but pretty tricky on the DM side to get the encounters balanced right.

upidstay
03-07-2008, 04:14 PM
Are you using Epic level rules? Because a 14th level paladin, plus whatever levels of sorcerer, plus 7 levels for Rakshasa equals a minimum 22 character level. Gonna go crazy like that, might as well use the Epic rules. Some of them are sweet.:D

bluemoondragon
03-08-2008, 12:34 PM
Are you using Epic level rules? Because a 14th level paladin, plus whatever levels of sorcerer, plus 7 levels for Rakshasa equals a minimum 22 character level. Gonna go crazy like that, might as well use the Epic rules. Some of them are sweet.:D

Epic rules? Definitely ;). Our DM is using Szass Tam of Thay as our main antagonist; should be very intense lol.

nijineko
03-09-2008, 04:39 AM
raksasha have the sorcerer abilities in question as a racial ability.

when allowing gestalts in my campaigns, i allow for la adjusted races as one of the gestalt classes, however the entire la must fit within the levels. unless it is one of the races broken down into "racial levels". that or we use savage species to break it down.

gestalts can be fun for a change of pace. i find it useful to emulate the epic high fantasy, or for running a samurai shodown/dragonball z arena combat style campaign. complete with corny dialogue stolen from the saturday morning kung-fu theater shows. ^^ great for a comedic break between serious adventures. bonus xp for anyone who can talk out of sync with their own lips. =D

i've seen the gestalt rules successfully used in a serious campaign where all outsiders were successfully banished from the planes, and the elves turned to evil and took over nearly everything. evil elven empire needs to be toppled, and the last remaining traces of the power of the outsiders has been vested in 7 young heroes. i thought that all the outsiders working together in order to free themselves from imprisonment, and that you pretty much are starting with a post-apocalyptic-evil-won setting, were interesting twists. in this campaign, there have been no divine or psionic classes seen for some thousand(s) of years. and as it progresses, they get turned into gestalts with the second class being a divine or psionic class of some kind. but then, one must consider, this is a campaign where it is literally the heroes against an entire empire. being a gestalt and going into epic levels is entirely called for.

DrAwkward
03-10-2008, 09:59 AM
My gestalt campaign was in a pocket demension, ruled by a very bored Lich. It was a floating circular island in an endlessly looping demension -- if you looked up you could see the bottom of it, which was an inverted volcano (for light). If you looked off the western rim you could see the eastern edge.

The Lich had modified the Trap the Soul spell so that you got both a gem with a soul in it, and a comatose shell for a body. If you shattered a soulgem, the soul could inhabit the nearest shell and they'd merge thier abilities into a gestalt character.

He'd spend his time having his minions raiding the prime plane, bringing back adventurers to experiment on. He'd rip thier souls from thier body and shove them back together in different combinations.

good times.